Dose luck have anything to do with success?

[ar81]

It is 5% luck, 1% inspiration, and 90% of knocking doors until one opens.

[Lei]

Originally Posted by ProbableReality

Luck?

Call it what you will.

It depends on your awareness of how you get what you get.

IMO, there is no luck. Your success is a function of every decision you make.

Choose well.

what is IMO mean?

[Remiel]

Originally Posted by Lei

what is IMO mean?

In my opinion.

[vMike]

You might get lucky here and there and catch a full on the flop, but in the long run luck has little importance

[JohnnyHatch]

Originally Posted by Lei

"The harder you work, the luckier you become." great!!! who said it?

Thomas Jefferson said it. He said, "The harder I work, the luckier I find, I get."

[SmartAlx]

I think people downplay the importance of luck way too much.

Yes, I think luck has a lot to do with success. Sure hard work is a big part, but it's never enough to be willing to work hard. Who has worked harder, the coal miner or the lawyer? The fact is that the coal miner never had the good fortune to be born with the drive to pull himself out of the environment that would make him into a coal miner. He was born in a coal town. Did he have any control over that? He was born into a coal mining family. Did he have any control over that? His Dad taught him that mining coal was a very noble profession and instilled in him the belief that if he wanted to be a man he would stay in the family business. Did he have any control over that? No.

But then let's examine his brother, who was born in that same town in that same family and taught the same lessons from his father. His genetics made him smarter and better in school. Maybe he was more defiant because his genes gave him a questioning mind. He questioned things his whole life, and because of that he eventually became determined to leave the coal town and become a lawyer. He had success in school, got a scholarship and went to college and became the lawyer he wanted to be. Why even the desire to be a lawyer wasn't entirely in his control. What enabled him to become the lawyer? His will? His determination? But what gave him the determination? Did he have any control over that? No! It's genetic! If he had control, then why didn't his brother escape the town too?

People so often blame our lives on our decisions and will, as if we have absolute 100% control over our own will and decisions. Even the will is at the whim of outside forces. In fact there are many influences on any particular decision we make and free will is only one of them.

In fact, the very existence of free will itself is a philosophical debate that's been raging for hundreds of years.


(Please don't get all in a huff about me implying that coal miners are lowlifes or something and that they should try to become lawyers. It's just an example.)

[Robou]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

I think people downplay the importance of luck way too much.

Yes, I think luck has a lot to do with success. Sure hard work is a big part, but it's never enough to be willing to work hard. Who has worked harder, the coal miner or the lawyer? The fact is that the coal miner never had the good fortune to be born with the drive to pull himself out of the environment that would make him into a coal miner. He was born in a coal town. Did he have any control over that? He was born into a coal mining family. Did he have any control over that? His Dad taught him that mining coal was a very noble profession and instilled in him the belief that if he wanted to be a man he would stay in the family business. Did he have any control over that? No.

But then let's examine his brother, who was born in that same town in that same family and taught the same lessons from his father. His genetics made him smarter and better in school. Maybe he was more defiant because his genes gave him a questioning mind. He questioned things his whole life, and because of that he eventually became determined to leave the coal town and become a lawyer. He had success in school, got a scholarship and went to college and became the lawyer he wanted to be. Why even the desire to be a lawyer wasn't entirely in his control. What enabled him to become the lawyer? His will? His determination? But what gave him the determination? Did he have any control over that? No! It's genetic! If he had control, then why didn't his brother escape the town too?

People so often blame our lives on our decisions and will, as if we have absolute 100% control over our own will and decisions. Even the will is at the whim of outside forces. In fact there are many influences on any particular decision we make and free will is only one of them.

In fact, the very existence of free will itself is a philosophical debate that's been raging for hundreds of years.


(Please don't get all in a huff about me implying that coal miners are lowlifes or something and that they should try to become lawyers. It's just an example.)

Well that's an interesting opinion on the value of luck and what it has to do with success..... So what are you doing on a personal developement forum if you believe that our abilities, drive, desire... essentially everything that this board is about, is pre-determined for us by the genetics passed on to us by our parents? So no one can develope drive, discipline or a great work ethic if it wasn't ingrained in us in our genetics at birth?..... I agree on luck in one view.... Look at Brad Pitt, he wouldn't be who he is without having the parents that he does... At least as far as his looks go...but success comes from a strong will and desire to achieve something that you have set your mind on.... It's not settling for less and it's doing whatever it takes for as long as it takes to achieve the goals that you have set for yourself. I believe this is a mind set that can be attained by anyone regardless of their inherent genetics..... I think people that play the luck card are just trying feebly to take the blame away from themselves and make excuses for where they are or mostly where they are not in life.....if I thought that I was doomed from birth with my genetic predisposition and couldn't effect any changes on myself beyond what my genetics had programmer me for.... I think I'd just shoot myself now!..... Of course that is if my predetermined genetic mindset would allow me to.

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by Robou

Well that's an interesting opinion on the value of luck and what it has to do with success..... So what are you doing on a personal developement forum if you believe that our abilities, drive, desire... essentially everything that this board is about, is pre-determined for us by the genetics

Luck (or hopefully God) brought me here.

Look at Brad Pitt, he wouldn't be who he is without having the parents that he does... At least as far as his looks go...but success comes from a strong will and desire to achieve something that you have set your mind on....

Where do you get that will and desire?

My point is everything that defines your value as a person comes from somewhere else, a place outside of your control.

It's not settling for less and it's doing whatever it takes for as long as it takes to achieve the goals that you have set for yourself.

And what enables you to do whatever it takes to achieve? Yes you have abilities and drive and what not, but what gave you the abilities and drive? Where did you get that? Without luck you wouldn't be the person you are today.

I believe this is a mind set that can be attained by anyone regardless of their inherent genetics.....

It's not just genetics. It's timing. It's people coming into your life (which you can't control) who give you drive. It's accidentally taking the wrong class in school that resulted in you meeting that professor who taught you a life changing lesson. It's meeting that special someone that gives you purpose. It's having children. Even finding this website requires a brand of luck. Did you have control over finding this website? Did you wake up one day and say, "I think I'm going to find that Steve Pavlina website that I never heard of." No. You did a Google search for "personal development" and stumbled upon it. Or you found the book by Steve on Amazon or on someone's coffee table. Or someone told you about the website. The point is you had zero control over finding this website. ZERO! Any other claim is just you being prideful.

I think people that play the luck card are just trying feebly to take the blame away from themselves and make excuses for where they are or mostly where they are not in life.....

I think people that disregard the importance of luck are just trying to give themselves more credit than they deserve. It's very prideful.

[Parthon]

SmartAlx: On the flip side however, if you don't own the consequences of your decisions by accepting reponsibility for everything in your reality, then you can't control anything that happens. If you leave everything up to "fate" or "luck" then you don't have any leverage to make your wishes come true.

There are many things that seem to happen randomly, but they are just opportunities. Someone might have heard about Steve's website, or saw the book, but it would have taken a conscious action to read the site, or to ask about the book. Opportunities arise, but awareness and willingness to take action turn those potential futures into actual realities.

If we belittle our own involvement in life, then we lose what little control we have. How can we even say we accomplish anything at all, if we don't own the decisions and actions we take.

It's not prideful at all, but one of the fundamentals in Steve's book, the aspect of Power.

[Robou]

Prideful is a bad thing especially in the face of overcoming odds? I don't think so. Will and desire comes from within not outside and to imply that some force outside yourself (God) if you will, is giving you desire or pushing you in a certain direction you are just absolving yourself of any and all responsability for what happens to you in life and have given it over to " Gods will"...... If you fail or don't succeed in what you are shooting for then it was "Gods will " ..... If you succeed then it's the same..... So your just a hapless pawn pawn in life with someone or something else pulling your strings?.... and your happy and satisfied believing this?.... That may well be the most amazing part!.... The tricky part here is that you've picked a subject matter that really can't be proven or dis-proven..... You say genetics are what caused one brother to have the drive to become a lawyer and the other wasn't "lucky" enough to have those genetics so he never had the desire to do anything but work in the coal mines....there is no possible way that you can prove this but there isn't really a definitive way to disprove it either.....so argue a point as we may what it all comes down to is nothing more than opinion at best. I've actually started a thread to see what other people think of this idea.... Please be sure that I'm not trying to beat you up for your beliefs (it's actually got me to thinking!), we just have to agree to disagree over this matter.

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by Parthon

SmartAlx: On the flip side however, if you don't own the consequences of your decisions by accepting reponsibility for everything in your reality, then you can't control anything that happens. If you leave everything up to "fate" or "luck" then you don't have any leverage to make your wishes come true.

This is a good point. But I say again, you couldn't have this attitude if it wasn't given to you from something outside of yourself. LOL. It never ends.

Opportunities arise, but awareness and willingness to take action turn those potential futures into actual realities.

And where do you get the awareness and willingness to take action to turn those potential futures into reality?

If we belittle our own involvement in life, then we lose what little control we have. How can we even say we accomplish anything at all, if we don't own the decisions and actions we take.

It's not belittling. It's being humble. It's recognizing that we are ants in a world of giants, not mice in a world of elephants. Hmmm.... mice in a world of elephants. I'm going to have to examine that thought more thoroughly.

This humble approach to life also enables forgiveness. If you realize that someone wasn't in complete control when they took an action against you, you are probably going to be more willing to forgive them.

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by Robou

Will and desire comes from within not outside and to imply that some force outside yourself (God) if you will, is giving you desire or pushing you in a certain direction you are just absolving yourself of any and all responsability for what happens to you in life and have given it over to " Gods will"...... If you fail or don't succeed in what you are shooting for then it was "Gods will " ..... If you succeed then it's the same..... So your just a hapless pawn pawn in life with someone or something else pulling your strings?.... and your happy and satisfied believing this?.... That may well be the most amazing part!....

Your argument seems to be, "if we don't believe in free will, then we are pawns and I don't want to be a pawn, so this idea HAS to be false." Well, you can think of yourself however you want, but if you are a pawn, then you are a pawn. No amount of overthinking the matter is going to change that.

I actually do believe in free will (otherwise it would be extremely difficult for me to believe in a just God). I actually equate free will to goodness. Everyone's free will is there, but limited. In very simplistic terms, actions that enable other people to have free will are good. Actions that overall (long term) limit other people's free will are bad.

The tricky part here is that you've picked a subject matter that really can't be proven or dis-proven.....

Now maybe the I-M/LoA people can feel how I feel. LOL Anyway, the fact that proving this is so difficult is precisely why it's been a philosophical debate for so long.

I've actually started a thread to see what other people think of this idea.... Please be sure that I'm not trying to beat you up for your beliefs (it's actually got me to thinking!),

Yes, I found it and replied already.

We just have to agree to disagree over this matter.

Oh, I can't agree to that. JK

[Parthon]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

This is a good point. But I say again, you couldn't have this attitude if it wasn't given to you from something outside of yourself. LOL. It never ends.

Where from without does it come from though? Eventually external impacts must be internalised. Attitude comes from within.

And where do you get the awareness and willingness to take action to turn those potential futures into reality?

From personal growth. Not only from external materials, but internal discovery.

It's not belittling. It's being humble. It's recognizing that we are ants in a world of giants, not mice in a world of elephants. Hmmm.... mice in a world of elephants. I'm going to have to examine that thought more thoroughly.

We are more like ants in a world of ants. People have created the world that we now live in. Society, buildings, cities and all the great works are all because of people. While we might all be ants in the big scheme of things, we are ants that have a major impact on the world around us.

This humble approach to life also enables forgiveness. If you realize that someone wasn't in complete control when they took an action against you, you are probably going to be more willing to forgive them.

Aaah, I fully agree with this. People can only do their best at any given time, because if they could do better, they would. If things could have been a different way, they would have. You can't fault people for being people, any more than you can fault a dog for being a dog.

We could go back and forth forever about this really. I know that if I take the externalised route, I take no action at all in my life and everything suffers. If I believe that my life is my own to control, then I start taking action and moving my life in the direction I want.

Now this belief could be externalised, I could have gotten the inspiration from without, and it might have been a coincidence that I stumbled apon it. The fact that I believe in my own free will could have happened completely by fate or by chance. I might have no free will, or no control over my destiny whatsoever.

But in the end, only in believing that I do have free will do I take the right actions. It's a paradox that believing in free will, even if we live in a world without free will, moves me towards a better life. In the end, it comes down to the unique set of beliefs that most benefit an individual. It's the path we all travel that matters.

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by Parthon

Where from without does it come from though? Eventually external impacts must be internalised. Attitude comes from within.

I think it can be best described as if we are a big pot where all of the outside influences are mixed and cooked. Hmm. I like that analogy.

From personal growth. Not only from external materials, but internal discovery.

And your ability to grow comes from outside sources. You learned how to by your parents, teachers, mentors, by books, by scripture, and if you used your brain, your intellect, your creativity, then genetics clearly played a big part.

We could go back and forth forever about this really.

Agreed.

I know that if I take the externalised route, I take no action at all in my life and everything suffers. If I believe that my life is my own to control, then I start taking action and moving my life in the direction I want.

And this is the fundamental difference between traditional thinking and the new post-modern philosophy. The old ways like in the 50s were external. You did things for other people. You worked because your family needed you to. You helped your neighbors. Your first priority was the outside world. Today it's the opposite. You work for yourself. You clean your own house before you clean your neighbors'. You put your own interests first. Why you don't even put your spouse first in this new world.

Now this belief could be externalised, I could have gotten the inspiration from without, and it might have been a coincidence that I stumbled apon it. The fact that I believe in my own free will could have happened completely by fate or by chance. I might have no free will, or no control over my destiny whatsoever.

But in the end, only in believing that I do have free will do I take the right actions. It's a paradox that believing in free will, even if we live in a world without free will, moves me towards a better life.

Actually this isn't too dissimilar to my own thought that maybe the belief in free will creates free will. Of course I believe that it was God that instilled that belief in us.

In the end, it comes down to the unique set of beliefs that most benefit an individual.

What about the world? See? Your first priority is the individual, not the world around you. Not the community. This is my main beef with this new world.

It's the path we all travel that matters.

Not all paths lead to the same destination.

[Kaybee]

I believe success is created through preparation so that you are in the right place and the right time when the opportunity presents itself.

Kim
The Success Quotes Series