Want to help a student out w/ some career advice?

[Lychee]

I made a similar post to this but I've become increasingly concerned with my future. I'm seeking your advice once more. I appreciate any advice that people can give to a confused student.

In a nutshell: I'm a biology major who will graduate very soon. My original intent when I entered college was to go into medicine, but after taking all the courses and being introduced to psychology, my interest has changed from the physical to the mental. I've come to develop an aversion towards quantitative research and labs. I want to work with people and be some sort of psychologist or therapist.

The problem: Everyone is discouraging me from doing it and they have valid concerns and objections. They say (and I agree) that the market for psychologists and therapists is very limited. Obtaining a Master's does not guarantee me a job in psychology and the best thing for me to do if I do pursue a degree in psychology is to get a PhD and teach. I've also spoken to a lot of mother's and father's, whose sons and daugthers went into medicine, business, law, etc. before me and they all agree that it's not such a great field to go into. The reason they say so is because there is no demand for it, the salary isn't so high, and opportunities for advancement are slim. I've asked this question to a varied group of people and they all agree.

The thing is I don't want to be of those people who just follow the advice of everyone else. I want to do something out of my own accord, and make mistakes on my own if I do. I want to say proudly it was MY mistake, and not someone else's. But for the time that I've been in school, I just did what I wanted to do and look where I ended up. I don't know what to do because listening to myself has gotten me in an academic quandary, but I do believe that everything happens for a reason.

However, my resolve to follow what I want to do strengthens when I read articles that state that if you follow your heart, all the things you need and want will be met. When I see the passion with which my psychology professor teaches, it warms my heart and gives me hope about my future. I don't know if I'm being very idealistic about this or whether my head is in the clouds. I don't know if I fully appreciate or grasp the practical implications of my going into psychology. I'm always thinking that "things will work out" and not being able to support myself hasn't really been on my mind, but should it be? If I do decide to go into psychology, should I get a PhD? ...Master's? Should I forget psychology and do something like law, public health, or some other core science? If psychology isn't such a good idea, what should I do? Is there anything I can do on the side of my studies which can get me (considerable) extra income? I don't know what to do.

[Nelson]

It depends on two factors really:

1. Do you have any dependents in your family or do you plan of making some in the very near future?

2. Is psychology really, truly what you wish to follow? Could you spend 10 years studying psychology alone in the woods? How about 20 years? 50 years?

If you are in situation 1 you probably should consider getting a steady job and supporting your family and study psychology on the side.

If you really truly want and desire to understand psychology - if you have a burning desire to ge tup in the morning so you can learn more about the wonders of the mind - then you should devote yourself thouroughly. The market for psychologists is what you make it. You can create your own business after you have mastered it. Money and wealth can be independent of your job and you should learn those as well - thus you may choose any career you choose.

With 10% interest, (such as using bonds, mutual funds or indexes) anyone can become a millionaire before retirment for about $150/month.

So if you play samrt you can retire well anyways - like Joseph Cambell said "Follow Your Bliss."

[sundance]

I would highly recommend Rick Jarow's The Ultimate Anti-Career Guide.

You'll find his personal story inspiring. He followed his passion and dropped out of Harvard, went to India to study meditation, came back & enrolled in a little-known college in NY, and got Ph.D. from Columbia.

Of course, it's much more than his personal story. Get the CD instead of the book, as his voice is very soothing & genuine.

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If you know your Myers-Briggs Personality type, you can get some hints here about career choices.

Common Careers for Personality Types

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Don't ask yourself what the world needs; ask yourself what makes you come alive. And then go and do that. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive. --Harold Whitman

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On the practical issue of money, since you're young, you can afford taking risks and living with little money while pursuing your passion. The opportunity cost will go up as you grow older. So it's better to explore, experiment now than later.

Give yourself a year or two to pursue your passion. It might lead you to something else.

==========

Also take a look at this:

Institute of Transpersonal Psychology

Pro: has a spirituality component to it. I don't know much about psychology, but I have a lot of respect for Carl Jung for his exploration of spiritual realm, which seems unfortunately missing in many psychology academic programs today.

Con: job-wise, you'll probably have to create your own career/job. Again, refer to Rick Jarow.

I'm not necessarily recommending the school, as I believe you can read all the books on your own if you don't need the degree. It mainly serves a pointer to psychology programs out side of the mainstream.

[etnie21]

Lychee:

Some great advice in the above posts and information too.

I am suffering from a career identity issue at the moment and some of what I have been thorough may help.

I am currently in IT doing proj. mgmt. I have an aptitude for this stuff, but it does not make me happy at all. It does not fulfill me. Years ago I began playing around with computers, more so with software and learning how it worked. I wasn't terribly interested in programming, but computers in general. As the years went by I kept playing around with computers, video games, etc... My original goal was to create computer games, however that involved quite a bit of math and careers in that field had not taken off yet. I checked into computer engineering and again there was too much math, I ended up going into Business Computer Systems (BCS). I had worked with computers all of my life so this made quite a bit of sense. After struggling through Business classes I became enamored with communications and seriously considered switching to a Com degree. Quite a few friends and family pushed me away from this degree because of the lack of opportunities once I graduated. In fact both my parents mentioned getting the best degree possible while at school and then following my heart afterwards. I ended up graduating with the BCS degree and have been in IT since. I have learned that I enjoy using computers and what they can do, but I want nothing to do with creating them, manging them, etc...

My point from above relates to a degree is just a degree, it is what you do AFTER you get it that matters. The tone I received from your post speaks of a fulfilling career (Ie. following your heart). Granted you spend quite a bit of time following psyche, therapy, law, etc... That does not speak to who you are or what you will do after school. You do have a decision in that you can create what you want to after you have proven to the world that you can learn. If you want to follow the cookie cutter role of becoming a therapist, psychologist, etc... then go ahead, but YOU are the one making the decision.

On the note of following your heart and other things will follow... I am evaluating this path as well. It takes a great amount of determination, will, and sacrifice to make this happen. Granted I am just starting down the path, but everything I have read speaks to this point. Everything points to this path being worth it, however it can be long and quite challenging. You may have to starve for xx years before you can really see things being worth it, you may lose some things you thought were sure things like 'friends' in the process (though you do understand facing that path who your true friends and support are). So if you choose following your heart, be fully aware of what that means.

Having said all that, here is what I know of friends that go into the medical field.

1. They tend to be paying off loans for quite a bit of time... You will make the money back, eventually, usually they are quite busy studying or keeping up with what is going on and may not pay attention to other 'side' things. You can do investments, consulting, building stuff, whatever suits your fancy on the side, but it should be something manageable and that you are somewhat interested in (or have someone that can manage it for you).
2. You have to love what you are doing, not what you do on a daily basis. (Paperwork sucks, but you get to work with people trade off) Keep in mind the 'not fun' activities of the job/career.

Maybe getting a phd will allow experimentation with what you really want to do with the fall back of teaching? Maybe you will be the one who creates some radical new idea or figures out something that people before you did not and your road create itself from there...
I have gone through quite a few exercises in a book called "The Pathfinder" By Nicholas Lore. Awesome book that really makes you think about who and what you are and where you want to go with what you have to offer the world. Granted it sounds like you are sold on the psyche/therapy road, regardless some of the exercises in the book are fantastic. Another book that deals with personality type and the MBTI: "Do What You Are".

If I were in your shoes I would evaluate where I am at, speak to as many people in the profession as possible, have some type of back up plan (Ie. investments, other career, etc...), and then move towards your goal. Experimenting when you are younger is FAR easier (as mentioned above) then when you are older!

On a side note... I have heard in the past that psyche and therapists are there to support people, not solve their problems for them, if you are hoping to solve people's problems or fix them, then these may not be good careers for you.

[pantera]

Some great advice from others. Here's mine:

1. Examine what you are not liking about your current studies. Make sure that you are not just having a little burnout from a heavy courseload, and in turn are fantasizing about how rosy a new career track might be.

2. You do need to follow your heart and do what you love. It will not be always easy. You might have to accept the fact that you will make less money at that than in other careers. But you only have so many years on this planet. Make the most of them.

An example: Would you be happy at 45 or 50 doing "what you love" and living in a modest house, struggling to pay some bills, taking vacations only infrequently and to inexpensive places, and driving a Hyundai? Or would you have a better life having a career that you merely tolerate, but that will give you the expensive house, the Mercedes, the expensive vacations, and perhaps an earlier retirement?

I gave up a $110,000/yr job 3 years ago to pursue a different career path. I was stressed out and unhappy in a career that I didn't enjoy as much as I wanted to. I am struggling -- REALLY struggling -- to start my own business. I have lost nearly all of my retirement savings. I made $13,000 last year. I am so scared some days. BUT I am happy. I have a dream, and I'm not giving it up. Somehow, some way, I'm going to make it work.

3. Take advice from those close to you, but listen to your heart in the end. Most people don't want you to take risks because THEY never had the guts to take a risk to go after their dream. It's the reason why most people are not entrepreneurs.

Good luck.

[Lychee]

I don't have any dependents.

Psychology is the only subject that really sparks my interest. Psychology is one thing that I enjoy and so far, has come easily for me.

My Myers-Briggs type is INFJ. I did take a test that tested for careers good for INFJ's and they suggested professions like scientists, psychologists, doctors, lawyers.

etnie21, thank you for sharing your own story with me. I've been doing thinking about what I really want to do after graduating and I find that psychology is the best profession that allows me to do so.

I agree that for medicine you really have to like it to do it. I thought I could suck it up and get it done because I do enjoy learning about the body, but my interest decreased over time. Aside from that, loans would've been an important factor in my mind - but won't I have to be just as concerned about it if I get a PhD?

As for a backup plan...I really don't have one. The only thing I can think of is if I don't get into graduate school would be to get a job and work for a bit and then go back to school.

My intention is not to solve peoples' problems for them, but to aid them in solving their problems for themselves. People sometimes just really need someone to talk to and help them see things from a different perspective.

pantera

1. I've been having problems with my major for a long time now. I was thinking about switching my major before but I just wanted to stick it through and exhaust all means before I chose another route. The natural sciences will only get more difficult as I go through professional school and I just wasn't loving it here so I know I wouldn't love it there either. I'm going to keep my major since I'm almost done, but I don't wish to pursue it.

2. This is why I'm kind of banking on the fact that if you do what you want, everything will fall into place. I do want to make the most of my life.

As for the scenario you presented...well, we are all looking for happiness. But going to a job that I have to "tolerate" wouldn't be something I'd be comfortable doing. I don't really have any neutral ground to this...I either like it or I don't.

3. One of my friends, against the opinion of her parents, went into architecture. Her parents were rooting for her to go into medicine, engineering, etc. but in the end she followed her heart and she loves it. The people around me just want me to be safe and secure with a reliable job. But you are sacrificing "liveliness" of life if you do and besides, is there any thing as "security"? We don't know what's going to happen tomorrow so you might as well take the ball and run with it.

[etnie21]

I agree that for medicine you really have to like it to do it. I thought I could suck it up and get it done because I do enjoy learning about the body, but my interest decreased over time. Aside from that, loans would've been an important factor in my mind - but won't I have to be just as concerned about it if I get a PhD?

Glad to hear that you are interested in helping people work out their problems, not just working to help people fix their problems.

If you go down the path of getting a PhD, regardless of where you end up or how much you spend, thinking of what you want to do with it might be a good start. You mentioned teaching before, is that what you would want to do? Is there any way you could shadow your prof. for a day or two to see what it is like? Even interview a few of them to get a better idea of what their daily life is like? That will give you more insight into whether or not it is something you want to do.

Ie. What would your long term goal be? Helping people is a great idea, but what else would be your goal? Would you want to be the 'best' professor out there? Could you see yourself developing some type of system to help people out and then writing a book about it? If you went into teaching would you have any desires to be published? Etc... Overall I would think through some type of plan, some idea of where I would ultimately want to end up.

Don't have to get caught up in figuring everything out now, having a 10 year plan, etc... but some idea of where you want to go would be a good start.

The above would end up taking care of the paying off the loans. PLUS if you get in good at some places, you can be a teachers aide or some other type of position for the university where they will pay for your PhD for you and help defray some of the costs. Granted you won't make much money during that time and times will get lean, it is one way of approaching the situation with financial concerns in mind.

[John Hill]

I think you should follow your own path for 2 main reasons.

Firstly the world is changing rapidly as we move into the age of aquarius. People soon will be spending less time talking with medical doctors and more time talking with mental doctors as we move into a more mental sphere of living. The popularity of this forum and the new consciousness movement is not just a trend, it is here to stay and more and more people in the millions are jumping on board every day. Although medical doctors are still necessary, they will become less and less important in the not too distant future.

Secondly and just as importantly you have to follow your own star and only you know in what direction that is. Your choice is the only one that matters.

I have addressed a number of issues on my site you may be interested in. The link is below.

John

[Lychee]

Thank you both etnie and John. I think because I have the desire in mind, everything will fall into place with some contemplation and faith on my part.

Thanks again and wish you guys all the best in your endeavors.

[summerwine]

Hi there,

Well I'm not here to give advise, I'm just going to tell you what is happening to me and I think at 27 im probably a little older than you! My scenario is very similar to your situation. I did a degree in england doing marine biology and needless to say this would be an extremely specific are and very, very few jobs in this field. Over the years after my degree I put 110% into getting experience through voluntary jobs and anything remotely in my area whilst doing cooking in restaraunts and anyother jobs that would come up. Trying to find my niche in life!

I would often get very furstrated by working in dead end jobs and other jobs which I hated intensely. However, When I became at 26, all 120 students that did a degree in marine biology, had given up their dreams to follow alternative areas in work. Instantly I found a job as a fisheries officer and have been on a road that is going in the right direction!

At 27 although I only get employment as a fishery officer for 8 months of the year, this jan I got a job teaching blind people how to cook. This only would have happened if I had done the jobs that I hated and followed my dreams. It is a great job and very rewarding and think that I will follow my heart more often in the future.

I have chosen to go travelling for the next three months to release my mind of stesses and give me a break from this commercial world we live in. Through councelling and purley self development, I have found that if I had not done these jobs and wasn't a positive person. I would be in a totally diff future instead and wouldn't have followed what I thought what was right for me.

Most people would say that you only know what you want to do when you are around 30. For me, I think I'm only beginning to discover what I really, really want to do!

Life is short and wish you the best!

[alexb5784]

Who cares what the job market says! There are people who studied psychology and have found their dream jobs. People who say "Oh the economy is not creating jobs! There's no demand for your career" are people who don't have control over their lives. When you believe in YOU, you'll always get what you need. You just need to be willing to take risks to create the future you want. Sometimes it won't be pleasant, but it can be done.

You should find someone who's in a psychology career and loves it. They'll tell you to follow your heart and that you'll soon find a way to have your dream career. You don't have to take a traditional route to psychology by teaching or being a therapist. You can work for a corporation, NASA, biotech companies, technology companies, whatever!

I studied math in college and I thought I was going to be a doctor. Then I changed my mind because I hated all the science. And now? Well, I'm self-employed in software marketing and I'm writing a book. In addition, I found a way to attend to grad school AND live in two countries. I just finds ways to do what I want and I'm 26 years old. Lots of people have told me that what I'm doing is crazy, but I'm enjoying my life and I'm learning to make more money. And them? Well they're still too afraid to go after their dreams and they're complacent. So who's crazy?

If you're creative and willing to be persistent, you can do whatever you want. Some people will tell you what you can't do, but be careful of whom you listen to. I only listen to people who are successful.

Good Luck!

[Love]

Hi lynchee!

I sure can understand the distress. You want to do want you're interested in, but you and everyone around you is concerned about your being able to pay the bills with you doing what you want to do.

One of the first things I thought about while meditating on this issue was Steve's article: What's the likelihood of becoming black belt? Basically it says that the only thing that determines your likelihood of success is your personal drive to accomplish your goal. Which can be kind of scary. You can think, what if I don't have the courage, strength, creativity, xyz to accomplish the goal? Well, I am going through the same thing (INFP following a less than traditional pathway of teaching/mentoring) and I feel that life will bring you the experiences you need to succeed, if you let it and embrace it.

Maybe you won't create your dream job instantly. But maybe x job will come along that gives you the experience and the creativity to take the next step towards creating your dream job. Just keep a strong overriding intention to do what is you want to do.

The end question is: when you're done, in the very end, with life: will you be proud of what you've done? Will you be satisfied? Will you have helped the world in some needed way?

Good luck, Lychee!

[Rapid]

Hi. I feel your pain. Former pre-med major here. Couldn't be happier.

A search for "psychologist" on the O*net site turned up the following list:
Quick Search

Work in a corporate setting as an industrial-organizational psychologist can be lucrative.

Psychology degree holders are needed in business, especially marketing.

You can also become a life coach, personal coach, or therapist with interesting specialties. A friend of mine is a therapist who's studying and incorporating the use of Enneagrams in her practice.

I was really lost for many years after deciding to forego the pre-med path (my heart just wasn't in it). The last 12 years have been tough as I struggled to find my identity. I faced more than a fair share of criticisms and discouragement while I explored my options.

No matter what happens to you, you can always learn from your experiences and mistakes. As Steve Jobs said in his 2005 commencement speech, you can't connect the dots looking forward, but you can connect the dots looking backward.

Once you graduate from college, find a new place to live, and start supporting yourself, you will be away from the influences of your parents (keep in touch with them though). Find new friends who believe in you and support you in the pursuit of your dreams (we do here!). Learning to trust your intuition, listening to your heart, and having confidence in your own judgement, intelligence, and resources are crucial to develop as an individual. Just remember that many people who are much older than you are totally lost.

If you find yourself in the position of having to take unfulfilling work temporarily while you pay off loans, try not to get too frustrated with yourself and Life. In the meantime, have a percentage of your income automatically transferred to a high-interest savings account (Emigrant - over 5%, for example) every month. Having such "financial cushion" will support you if you get laid off from a job or apply to a graduate program.

I don't know how things will work out for you, other people, or myself. It does sound like you are a giver. What I tell myself is that, if I continue to focus on making a contribution to society with a pure heart and mind and the purest of intentions, somehow things will work out. I wish you the best of luck!

[Lychee]

summerwine,

I guess we never really know where we're going to end up, but even the seemingly trivial things shape us into who we are to become. Congratulations!

alexb5784,

I did speak to some psychologists and they are really enthusiastic about their field. I believe no matter what profession you're in as long as you have passion and dedication you will excel.

It's so great to see people who are relatively young starting their lives so early. But it also saddens me to see people who are in "traditional" professions look down on those who follow their own hearts which may not be up to their expectations or society's expectations.

Best wishes to you.

Love,

Exactly. We should always look at the bigger picture instead of just "will this pay the bills?" or "does this look good enough?"

Rapid,

Welcome to the club!

It's so difficult, especially now, to really decide for ourselves what we want. In the past most people have been geared towards a particular profession by influence (parents for example) so they didn't really have to worry about what they wanted to do.

If you don't mind my asking, when did you decide to drop out of premed?

There really are no "mistakes" in life as long as you recognize the short coming and aim to correct it. It's amazing how even the most disastrous errors can turn into opportunities.

You suggested some things to do after graduating. Did you come by this through a website or book which may provide more detailed information?

Thanks for your advice.

[joshbickford]

Find what you love and never give up.

Don't listen to people that give you reasons you can't.

Find what you love and never give up.

[Rapid]

>>>
If you don't mind my asking, when did you decide to drop out of premed?
>>>

The slow realization process took a few years of classes, reading career books, and volunteering at local clinics. I didn't want to be working in a hospital treating patients but rather go out there and make things happen!

Have you volunteered in a clinical setting?

>>>
You suggested some things to do after graduating. Did you come by this through a website or book which may provide more detailed information?
>>>

The tips are from my own personal experience.

I've read a fair number of self-help books and articles in my life. I've also learned that, after a while though, I need to put the books away and figure out how to put some of the ideas to use.

[Lychee]

Originally Posted by Rapid

>>>
If you don't mind my asking, when did you decide to drop out of premed?
>>>

The slow realization process took a few years of classes, reading career books, and volunteering at local clinics. I didn't want to be working in a hospital treating patients but rather go out there and make things happen!

Have you volunteered in a clinical setting?

>>>
You suggested some things to do after graduating. Did you come by this through a website or book which may provide more detailed information?
>>>

The tips are from my own personal experience.

I've read a fair number of self-help books and articles in my life. I've also learned that, after a while though, I need to put the books away and figure out how to put some of the ideas to use.

Thanks for the info!