Learn A New Language

[Adrienne]

I am trying to learn a new language. I have had 4 years of French in school, and 2 years of ASL in school. But after 4 years of getting As in french, i still cant speak outside of a few basic words.
I am curious what tips people here have for learning new languages. Any good products?
I have learning French and Learning Spanish on the DS and they are fun games, but i am not sure how much it is really helping me.
Anyone have any tips, programs, TV shows to watch to help learn french or other languages? Does the Rosetta stone programs help?

I have taken a look online for meetup groups on meetup.com and have not found anything promising yet.
Any suggestions would be great!

Adrienne

[gbarv]

I taught myself French to be able to understand movies and books and to speak in two years. I would recommend leaving language learning material (textbooks, Rosetta Stone, pimsleur, etc) and start using real content intended for native spearkers. One useful tecnique for building listening comprehension quickly is to use parallel texts, here you can see some information about this:
Language Learning Forum: Listening-Reading system
good luck

[aggie]

it is a use it or lose it deal. i read and wrote french very well at one time and was fairly good conversationally....but after not using it for several years...a few words at best....i thougt rosetta stone was supposed to be good...but i never tried...very expensive.

[runningbird]

I also can't vouch for Rosetta Stone. For one thing the Spanish version used odd grammar, and it seemed to move really slowly in terms of increasing the difficulty.

[Adrienne]

Originally Posted by gbarv

I taught myself French to be able to understand movies and books and to speak in two years. I would recommend leaving language learning material (textbooks, Rosetta Stone, pimsleur, etc) and start using real content intended for native spearkers. One useful tecnique for building listening comprehension quickly is to use parallel texts, here you can see some information about this:
Language Learning Forum: Listening-Reading system
good luck

interesting, i have not seen many of these parallel texts, i will give it a look at and see. Thanks for the link!

[Adrienne]

Originally Posted by aggie

it is a use it or lose it deal. i read and wrote french very well at one time and was fairly good conversationally....but after not using it for several years...a few words at best....i thougt rosetta stone was supposed to be good...but i never tried...very expensive.

yeah i would love to find a way to learn it, and find ways to keep practicing with it so i dont lose the skill.
I figure 500 bucks for the rosetta stone is not much if it actually worked. I am sure i have spent more on that for the classes in high school and college and i still cant communicate worth anything.

[Adrienne]

Originally Posted by runningbird

I also can't vouch for Rosetta Stone. For one thing the Spanish version used odd grammar, and it seemed to move really slowly in terms of increasing the difficulty.

Did you already know spanish so you knew the grammar was odd? or did a native speaker tell you?
mmmmm, i am going for vocabulary and pronunciation, being able to hear and understand as well. I figure more complicated grammar i will get as i listen to people.

[runningbird]

I had a couple years of Spanish in high school so I knew the usual verb conjugations. Someone also confirmed on Amazon: "I saw the reviews of the Spanish versions in which teachers and native speakers complained about the emphasis on progressive tenses ("I am _____ing") instead of the present, which is ubiquitous in Spanish and often used to stand in for both past and future. "

A lot of the words I came across were new but it seemed like it kept cycling and cycling them, no matter how many times I got them right.

[MmeIntentional]

Originally Posted by gbarv

I taught myself French to be able to understand movies and books and to speak in two years. I would recommend leaving language learning material (textbooks, Rosetta Stone, pimsleur, etc) and start using real content intended for native spearkers. One useful tecnique for building listening comprehension quickly is to use parallel texts, here you can see some information about this:
Language Learning Forum: Listening-Reading system
good luck

I am British, living in France for 9 years. I learnt French and German at school for 2 years and found that German was easier because it's close to English. I had the same also when I lived in Holland.

I also had massive psychological problems that I would freak out, sweat, start shaking then clam up when I used to speak to people in French. I got over that thank god!

Anyways to cut a very long story short after buying tons of CD's books etc. taking courses in france, speaking to natives and having a French boyfriends. $$$$$

I found the best way to learn French was to write out sentences about 30 times for me to retain it and spell.

Speak aloud, read things of interest aloud and KEEP repeating it.

Find a French Natives who are willing top speak slow!! You can find many people on skype for this.

Watch films, the news etc.

Do something every day otherwise you will loose it! Try for 1 hour a day. If you can't do it everyday try 4 times a week, at set times.


Also try and find a group like meetup.com. That helped me a lot!


Why not do the 30 days of this just to see how you get on?

I have dyslexia but it's no excuse because when I was learning every day I noticed a huge improvement. My French course is not enough because it's only 2 days a week, however I am still doing my bit. I have met many people who live here in France for 30-40 years and they don't speak a word of French because they are always at home etc. So my advice would be is to make time for it and stick to it otherwise you will forget it and you will have to start from the beginning again and I can tell you doing that was soooo boring.

Volia ! try these links too BBC - Languages - French

English to French, Italian, German & Spanish Dictionary - WordReference.com

[vilbara]

Here is another thread discussing the topic:

What's the best way to learn another language?

[kattsand]

Speak to french people.

I learned the basics of english in school and watching too much movies. I never spoke it though, I just refused. So I never really learned to pronounce the words. Then I bought an Xbox 360 and started playing online, started speaking to people from around the world everyday so I'm quite good at it now

[gene2009]

I've been learning Spanish since May 2009. I bought a good teach-yourself Spanish textbook per 10 bucks and found a few audio books in Internet. My goal to study Spanish and don't spend money on it. Probably, this resource will be useful for you, Free Spanish Lessons
Sorry for my poor English, I've learned it with 5 bucks’ English textbook.

[KazeCraven]

What is your reason for wanting to learn another language?

I tried learning Spanish for three years, and was going to quit but I kept going because I felt incompetent knowing only one language. I did not improve over that next year.

In college I studied Japanese from a native speaker. In my free time I'd watch anime, play around with calligraphy writing the Kanji I did know as beautifully as I could, and would often interject Japanese statements just for the fun of it. Not only do I love Japan, but I love the language itself, and that makes learning it pretty easy for me.

I got Rosetta Stone for Japanese. I got it because I don't like learning languages through my primary language, but I was disappointed with it for a few reasons:
-I don't really like talking to my computer
-My computer gives me too much leeway when speaking to it
-I can get by with many of the lessons without really knowing what is being said through deductions and patterns
-No chance to practice writing skills

[Kylie]

Apologies to the OP - I hope this isn't too off topic.

I'm living in Iran, and will be for the next 12 months. I want to learn Farsi, because I need to get around (it's not terribly common for people to speak english here).

So, I am immersed in the language, but I'm still not sure what the bet steps are to take in learning. The alphabet is based on the Arabic, so I can't easily look and guess, like I could with German or similar...

Again, apologies for being a little off topic.

[prozac]

- Google for a program named "Paltalk".

- Enter a room where most of the people speak the language you want to learn (usually there are already study circles)

- Talk the language frequently with other people online, they will correct and teach you while making new friends

- Master the language and feel amazed at how many more people you can now communicate it.

- Love the world

[gbarv]

No single book or software will make you fluent no matter how good it is. So if you are to buy any understand that it will only give you a foothold in the language, from then, not the best but the only way is input. I never really bothered and started using native materials from the start (with parallel books), within a month (studying probably 4-5 hours a day) I was understanding the radio and could read websites easily in French.

So if you want to buy a program, make sure that it contains as much Target language content as possible and as little teaching language as possible. Do not rely much on grammar explanations, you won't learn by them. We need grammar to produce correct language, but it is better to get lots of input in the beginning and leave grammar for later, after you've been exposed to hundreds of hours of your target language grammar will be easy and intuitive.

2Speak a lot" is good advice, but not in the beginning, you can only ever say as much as you have learnt, of what use is to proudly try your best "Buenos días" if you wont understand the reply, focus in input and comprehension in the beginning. Output will come naturally and spontaneously after you've listened/read enough of the language. I remember catching myself thinking in French, never tried to consciously produce anything in French it just came, only after you find yourself consistently thinking in the language is "Speak a lot" good advice.

Flood your brain with your target language, it will do its work, language learning is pretty much a subconscious process.

Good luck.

[gbarv]

By the way I never spent a single buck. I pretty much fluent in French now and my total I spend $0. Thank god for the internet!

Read Antimoon.com: How to learn English effectively great advice, just replace English with the language you want to learn.

[aelle]

Gbary, you give a lot of good advice. Using native material is key, at almost all stages of the language learning.
However, in my experience it is best to use dedicated language learning material, at least at the beginning - until "survival" level has been achieved.

Learning through native material only may be possible for languages that use the Latin alphabet and that have common roots - that's mostly how I learned English. But I can assure you that it wouldn't have worked for my study of Japanese or Korean (and probably won't work for Kylie's study of Farsi). Starting intensively with a language method, then adding native material and slowly increasing the rate is what works best for me. Studying intensively and daily is key.

[Adrienne]

Originally Posted by MmeIntentional

I found the best way to learn French was to write out sentences about 30 times for me to retain it and spell.

Speak aloud, read things of interest aloud and KEEP repeating it.

Find a French Natives who are willing top speak slow!! You can find many people on skype for this.

Watch films, the news etc.

Do something every day otherwise you will loose it! Try for 1 hour a day. If you can't do it everyday try 4 times a week, at set times.


Also try and find a group like meetup.com. That helped me a lot!


Why not do the 30 days of this just to see how you get on?

Volia ! try these links too BBC - Languages - French

English to French, Italian, German & Spanish Dictionary - WordReference.com

Thanks for the ideas and thanks for the links!
I found a native french speaker who loves to play cards, and is willing to come over and play cards and talk in french every week!

Originally Posted by vilbara

Here is another thread discussing the topic:

What's the best way to learn another language?

i was looking for this link a while ago and could not find it. I guess i did not use the correct search terms. Thanks for the link! Some interesting suggestions there.

Originally Posted by kattsand

Speak to french people.

I learned the basics of english in school and watching too much movies. I never spoke it though, I just refused. So I never really learned to pronounce the words. Then I bought an Xbox 360 and started playing online, started speaking to people from around the world everyday so I'm quite good at it now

I have an xbox360, and a few other platforms. Any idea of games i can play (i am not a bg fan of halo or other games like that. I like D2, tetris, etc) that i can find people who speak other languages? I thought most online gaming was done in English and Japanese.

Originally Posted by KazeCraven

What is your reason for wanting to learn another language?

I got Rosetta Stone for Japanese. I got it because I don't like learning languages through my primary language, but I was disappointed with it for a few reasons:
-I don't really like talking to my computer
-My computer gives me too much leeway when speaking to it
-I can get by with many of the lessons without really knowing what is being said through deductions and patterns
-No chance to practice writing skills

I want to learn a new languages becuase i enjoy being able to communicate with more people, and being able to to more "local" things when i travel. I want to be able to see the world and talk to people as i do it.

Thanks for your opinion on the Rosetta Stone. I was totally liking the idea of a computer game, but it looked a bit like expensive livemocha.com and livemocha.com has more features.
I had no idea you could not pratice writing in Rosetta stone. Thanks for that tidbit.

Originally Posted by Kylie

Apologies to the OP - I hope this isn't too off topic.

I'm living in Iran, and will be for the next 12 months. I want to learn Farsi, because I need to get around (it's not terribly common for people to speak english here).

So, I am immersed in the language, but I'm still not sure what the bet steps are to take in learning. The alphabet is based on the Arabic, so I can't easily look and guess, like I could with German or similar...

Again, apologies for being a little off topic.

Not off topic at all, its about learning new languages, not just me

Originally Posted by prozac

- Google for a program named "Paltalk".

- Enter a room where most of the people speak the language you want to learn (usually there are already study circles)

- Talk the language frequently with other people online, they will correct and teach you while making new friends

- Master the language and feel amazed at how many more people you can now communicate it.

- Love the world

paltalk looks interesting. Thanks for the idea. I will look into that. I really look forward to when i have a decent mastery of the most commonly used words in french so i can get more practice by communicating.

Originally Posted by gbarv

No single book or software will make you fluent no matter how good it is. So if you are to buy any understand that it will only give you a foothold in the language, from then, not the best but the only way is input. I never really bothered and started using native materials from the start (with parallel books), within a month (studying probably 4-5 hours a day) I was understanding the radio and could read websites easily in French.

So if you want to buy a program, make sure that it contains as much Target language content as possible and as little teaching language as possible. Do not rely much on grammar explanations, you won't learn by them. We need grammar to produce correct language, but it is better to get lots of input in the beginning and leave grammar for later, after you've been exposed to hundreds of hours of your target language grammar will be easy and intuitive.

2Speak a lot" is good advice, but not in the beginning, you can only ever say as much as you have learnt, of what use is to proudly try your best "Buenos días" if you wont understand the reply, focus in input and comprehension in the beginning. Output will come naturally and spontaneously after you've listened/read enough of the language. I remember catching myself thinking in French, never tried to consciously produce anything in French it just came, only after you find yourself consistently thinking in the language is "Speak a lot" good advice.

Flood your brain with your target language, it will do its work, language learning is pretty much a subconscious process.

Good luck.

Thanks for the idea of Parallel books, do you have a link where i can find some books like this?
yeah, i really want to get my foothold in the language then practice by going to the country to really get mastery of it. I went looking thru some of my dvds and i am going to watch them a few times in french to just learn the sound of it.

Originally Posted by gbarv

By the way I never spent a single buck. I pretty much fluent in French now and my total I spend $0. Thank god for the internet!

Read Antimoon.com: How to learn English effectively great advice, just replace English with the language you want to learn.

Thanks for the link, looks interesting, i will read it more in depth.

Thanks everyone for your help so far

[kattsand]

I usually play Call of Duty 4. You run in to people talking different languages and french is not uncommon. But yeah mostly it's just english.

[gbarv]

I'm sorry but I currently don't know any sites that offer parallel books for download, I did mine myself, just get the texts separately and use a word processor to make them parallel. It takes some time but you will only need them for the beginning stages, the goal here is to wean yourself off learning materials and translations as quickly as possible so that you can focus on native content. In my experience for related languages (e.g. French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, Dutch, German, Swedish, etc. for a native English speaker) you only need the translation of about 10 hours of unique content which you can repeat several times. If you don't want to make your own parallel texts you might as well use them separately, you read a paragraph in the English translation, then read the same in the target language and repeat until you can understand most of it.

If you are already at a point where you can understand at least some of the language just take the book with no translation and read, read, read, don't stop to think about grammar points or vocabulary, as long as you can understand (and especially enjoy) at least the gist of what you're reading you are fine just keep going. If you find you get bored either your level is not enough in which case you should continue using a translation or use easier content, or the content is not interesting to you so you're better off reading something else. Don't not read or watch or listen anything just for the sake of learning the language, use content you enjoy. Before taking any reading or listening material in your target language think if you would read it anyway in your first language.

About movies, we all have some we have watched so many times we almost know the lines by heart, use those in your target language.

I have some parallel books in made to learn French but, they're French-Spanish (my native language) and if you don't enjoy the same kind of book (embarrassingly, I love science fiction )you won't get far.

Anyway, some useful resources in French

French audiobooks: Litterature audio.com | Livres audio gratuits à écouter et télécharger
French ebooks:Ebooks libres et gratuits
French easy stories for children: Raconte-moi des histoires, l'integrale en téléchargement (Tirondin, Gobbolino, Grogre, Theo, avaleur de maitre)

[Adrienne]

Originally Posted by kattsand

I usually play Call of Duty 4. You run in to people talking different languages and french is not uncommon. But yeah mostly it's just english.

Call of Duty 4, heard of it but i have never played it. I will look into finding some games for my xbox that i can play online. I would love to be able to use video games as a way to play since i really enjoy games.

Originally Posted by gbarv

I'm sorry but I currently don't know any sites that offer parallel books for download, I did mine myself, just get the texts separately and use a word processor to make them parallel. It takes some time but you will only need them for the beginning stages, the goal here is to wean yourself off learning materials and translations as quickly as possible so that you can focus on native content. In my experience for related languages (e.g. French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, Dutch, German, Swedish, etc. for a native English speaker) you only need the translation of about 10 hours of unique content which you can repeat several times. If you don't want to make your own parallel texts you might as well use them separately, you read a paragraph in the English translation, then read the same in the target language and repeat until you can understand most of it.

If you are already at a point where you can understand at least some of the language just take the book with no translation and read, read, read, don't stop to think about grammar points or vocabulary, as long as you can understand (and especially enjoy) at least the gist of what you're reading you are fine just keep going. If you find you get bored either your level is not enough in which case you should continue using a translation or use easier content, or the content is not interesting to you so you're better off reading something else. Don't not read or watch or listen anything just for the sake of learning the language, use content you enjoy. Before taking any reading or listening material in your target language think if you would read it anyway in your first language.

About movies, we all have some we have watched so many times we almost know the lines by heart, use those in your target language.

I have some parallel books in made to learn French but, they're French-Spanish (my native language) and if you don't enjoy the same kind of book (embarrassingly, I love science fiction )you won't get far.

Anyway, some useful resources in French

French audiobooks: Litterature audio.com | Livres audio gratuits à écouter et télécharger
French ebooks:Ebooks libres et gratuits
French easy stories for children: Raconte-moi des histoires, l'integrale en téléchargement (Tirondin, Gobbolino, Grogre, Theo, avaleur de maitre)

Thanks for the links! made your own parallel books. Very awesome. I will look into doing that as well. My native language is English. I think i am going to make myself some french flash cards too, it is the little words (also, some, then) that connect the big words that seem to be what i always forget.
Thanks again for the links and the parallel book ideas!

adrienne

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by Adrienne

Thanks for the links! made your own parallel books. Very awesome. I will look into doing that as well. My native language is English. I think i am going to make myself some french flash cards too, it is the little words (also, some, then) that connect the big words that seem to be what i always forget.

That reminds me of something. One thing you could do is to write the words in French the words to all the common things around your place, and stick it there. Like for TV, you would put a note that says "tele". That could just be one little tip to learn some new vocabulary.

I'd suggest setting priorities too. Since your goal is to speak and listen to it fluently, I would guess then that it's not necessarily then to learn how to spell it properly, nor to learn the finner points of grammar. The most important thing would be to learn enough words and verbs and get used to talking to it so people can understand you (even if you aren't perfect at it) while you can understand other people.

That's my guess, but then I learned my second fluent language by going to that country without knowing more then hi, so I may be off on how to learn a second language from afar.

[Adrienne]

Originally Posted by seeker5

That reminds me of something. One thing you could do is to write the words in French the words to all the common things around your place, and stick it there. Like for TV, you would put a note that says "tele". That could just be one little tip to learn some new vocabulary.

I'd suggest setting priorities too. Since your goal is to speak and listen to it fluently, I would guess then that it's not necessarily then to learn how to spell it properly, nor to learn the finner points of grammar. The most important thing would be to learn enough words and verbs and get used to talking to it so people can understand you (even if you aren't perfect at it) while you can understand other people.

That's my guess, but then I learned my second fluent language by going to that country without knowing more then hi, so I may be off on how to learn a second language from afar.

Well i hope to go to another country to help learn french as well. But i want to have a pretty decent understanding of what i am hearing before i go there, so i am not frustrated and people are not frustrated with me!

good idea to focus on the vocab. That is what i am doing now, working on vocab and trying to be more comfortable hearing and understanding and not translating in my head.
Thanks for the ideas

Adrienne

[aegis]

I love Rosetta Stone. If you know where to look, you can find it for an excellent price.

The problem with the L-R method is that the audio is simply too fast to take in if you're new to the language. Most native speakers speak too quickly. On top of that, you need to find audio that matches up perfectly with what you're reading.

You're better off learning the vocabulary and the grammar will come naturally later on. Total immersion in the vocabulary is the same way you learned your first language.

[Adrienne]

Originally Posted by aegis

I love Rosetta Stone. If you know where to look, you can find it for an excellent price.

The problem with the L-R method is that the audio is simply too fast to take in if you're new to the language. Most native speakers speak too quickly. On top of that, you need to find audio that matches up perfectly with what you're reading.

You're better off learning the vocabulary and the grammar will come naturally later on. Total immersion in the vocabulary is the same way you learned your first language.

any idea where one of those great places is to pick up the rosetta stone cheap?

[ssandra]

Be careful to learning Spanish and French at the same time. For some reason they are just not compatible.

I speak Spanish as a third language, relatively fluent, but I am having great trouble learning French. As soon as I know a few sentences, I get them mixed up when I speak spanish.

It is not just me who is saying that, plenty of other people who speak one first and than learn the other have told me the same thing.

It is not impossible, but I would start with 1 and only than start with the other.

[Andyee]

I learned German by only watching TV. Try it out yourself.

[aelle]

Originally Posted by ssandra

Be careful to learning Spanish and French at the same time. For some reason they are just not compatible.

I speak Spanish as a third language, relatively fluent, but I am having great trouble learning French. As soon as I know a few sentences, I get them mixed up when I speak spanish.

It is not just me who is saying that, plenty of other people who speak one first and than learn the other have told me the same thing.

It is not impossible, but I would start with 1 and only than start with the other.

Good point. I had serious mix-up problems when I tried studying Spanish and Italian at the same time (even though I already had a few years of Spanish under my belt.) That said, the difficulties will valy according to your mother language, your knowledge of the first target language and your abilities.

[ballhit2]

If you're going to watch movies, watch movies written in the language that you are learning and not dubbed-from-English (or whatever) movies, because the subtitles are MUCH more accurate that way.

Notecards, make your own, so much better for the brain than purchased notecards.

Going to the country you want to learn and trying to work helps too. Usually you have to manifest a relationship for that to happen or you have to have $$$ OR luck.

Youtube comments are a good way to learn the colloquial forms of language.

Walking back and forth at top speed repeating phrases/sentences strangely works. Get headphones and make mp3s with a sentence in English, then the same in Target Language, and include a slight pause afterwards. Get like 50 of these ready, put them on your mp3 player, and then go outside and listen and start pacing back and forth and repeating the sentences while walking. I don't know why this works but it's pretty useful.

Attack vocabulary. Every method. Learning vocabulary is your new procrastination tool.

Accept that there's a threshhold of ability that you can attain. Accept failure if you don't learn the language and try to incarnate in that country next time you're born if you believe in such nonsense Just kidding. Don't accept failure, keep trying.