Learn A New Language

[newmark]

gbarv; what do you mean by 'making parallel books'?
Do you mean you just translated complete books from the language you were learning into your own language? And how did you use them?
Can I ask you as well, how many hours a day would you spend learning a language?

[gbarv]

I didn't translate anything, I just aligned them.
Example of parallel text.
Read the first post on this forum to know how to use them:
Language Learning Forum: Listening-Reading system

The key point is to get to a level of comprehension where you can use native materials, I would spend a minimum of 15 hours a week but of course the more the faster.

Once at this point you don't 'study' the language, you just continue using content in your target language and speaking ability eventually 'emerges', you start thinking in the language without realising it.

For example, after I felt quite comfortable in French I just used it to read about topics that interested me like philosophy, or instead of watching the news in my native language I tuned into a radio station through the Internet to stay informed. Also, I liked Formula 1 racing but I felt terribly guilty when watching TV so I watched the races with French commentary instead. You see the point. You don't need to set time apart for another language, you just integrate it into your daily activities.

I hope that helps.

[runningbird]

I am learning esperanto, which has been shown to be advantageous to students that subsequently studied other foreign languages:

"In one study,[32] a group of European secondary school students studied Esperanto for one year, then French for three years, and ended up with a significantly better command of French than a control group, who studied French for all four years. Similar results have been found for other combinations of native and second languages, as well as for arrangements in which the course of study was reduced to two years, of which six months is spent learning Esperanto.[33]"

Esperanto - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

However, it could be different for an adult that already has some language experience. But, I don't think it would hurt - I figure it should take 6 months at most to be able to use it actively. If it does shave down your learning time, you can have two languages under your belt in the time it would take to acquire one native language. Plus, esperanto has some pretty cool community perks - conventions, travel opportunities, etc.

[CroMagna]

I became fluent in Spanish in 3 months, without ever paying a dime. The best language program I would say is the Pimsleur series. Also Video Passport Spain. There are tons of language meetup groups. Also just try having one on one conversations with Hispanic people.

[CoolBee]

Originally Posted by ssandra

Be careful to learning Spanish and French at the same time. For some reason they are just not compatible.

I speak Spanish as a third language, relatively fluent, but I am having great trouble learning French. As soon as I know a few sentences, I get them mixed up when I speak spanish.

It is not just me who is saying that, plenty of other people who speak one first and than learn the other have told me the same thing.

It is not impossible, but I would start with 1 and only than start with the other.

I found learning Norwegian pushed German out of my head, and now if I ever try to speak German, Norwegian comes out instead (mind you that was a long time ago too so very rusty with both).

I'm beginning to find Arabic sitting in the same space in my head as French interestingly enough. There are some loan words (not sure whether its French loaned from Arabic or vice versa) so maybe that's why. Similar to the OP, I studied French at school for 7 years and while I could at some point pick up a book (eg Reine Margot by Dumas) and read it reasonably well, I couldn't speak it (again an ability long lost in the mists of time)

[Adrienne]

Originally Posted by ssandra

Be careful to learning Spanish and French at the same time. For some reason they are just not compatible.

I speak Spanish as a third language, relatively fluent, but I am having great trouble learning French. As soon as I know a few sentences, I get them mixed up when I speak spanish.

It is not just me who is saying that, plenty of other people who speak one first and than learn the other have told me the same thing.

It is not impossible, but I would start with 1 and only than start with the other.

Thanks for the advice on only learning one for right now. i do want to learn both, but i will focus on french right now. I am going to Costa Rica next summer, so i wanted Spanish for that, but i think French will be more usefully for me next summer if i need to pick on.

Originally Posted by ballhit2

If you're going to watch movies, watch movies written in the language that you are learning and not dubbed-from-English (or whatever) movies, because the subtitles are MUCH more accurate that way.

Notecards, make your own, so much better for the brain than purchased notecards.

Going to the country you want to learn and trying to work helps too. Usually you have to manifest a relationship for that to happen or you have to have $$$ OR luck.

Youtube comments are a good way to learn the colloquial forms of language.

Walking back and forth at top speed repeating phrases/sentences strangely works. Get headphones and make mp3s with a sentence in English, then the same in Target Language, and include a slight pause afterwards. Get like 50 of these ready, put them on your mp3 player, and then go outside and listen and start pacing back and forth and repeating the sentences while walking. I don't know why this works but it's pretty useful.

Attack vocabulary. Every method. Learning vocabulary is your new procrastination tool.

Accept that there's a threshhold of ability that you can attain. Accept failure if you don't learn the language and try to incarnate in that country next time you're born if you believe in such nonsense Just kidding. Don't accept failure, keep trying.

Ah yes, the famous, make note cards, i remember doing this as a kid for english vocab words.
Good point, pretty much everything i have been watching in French is english then dubbed to french. I will see if i can find some good french films.
i love that, vocab to be the new procrastination tool

Originally Posted by newmark

Can I ask you as well, how many hours a day would you spend learning a language?

I am willing to spend around an hour a day learning a new language. I will spend more sometimes (like if i am watching a movie), but about an hour of actual study is about what i can fit in right now.

[Adrienne]

Originally Posted by runningbird

I am learning esperanto, which has been shown to be advantageous to students that subsequently studied other foreign languages:

"In one study,[32] a group of European secondary school students studied Esperanto for one year, then French for three years, and ended up with a significantly better command of French than a control group, who studied French for all four years. Similar results have been found for other combinations of native and second languages, as well as for arrangements in which the course of study was reduced to two years, of which six months is spent learning Esperanto.[33]"

Esperanto - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

However, it could be different for an adult that already has some language experience. But, I don't think it would hurt - I figure it should take 6 months at most to be able to use it actively. If it does shave down your learning time, you can have two languages under your belt in the time it would take to acquire one native language. Plus, esperanto has some pretty cool community perks - conventions, travel opportunities, etc.

I have never heard of this, but it sounds interesting. I am going to take a look at it. Thanks!

Originally Posted by CroMagna

I became fluent in Spanish in 3 months, without ever paying a dime. The best language program I would say is the Pimsleur series. Also Video Passport Spain. There are tons of language meetup groups. Also just try having one on one conversations with Hispanic people.

I will look those up thanks! I found a couple meetup groups around here. There is not as much french as there is for Spanish, but i have high hopes.

[chipdouglas]

I thought I'd chime in on the language learning topic. I live near Montreal, and am a native speaker of French--although I wish English had been taught to me as a first language, but anyway ths is beside the point.

I've learned to write speak and understand English but integrating TV watching, going to the U.S. building my vocabulary by mainly reading from the web, and emailing people. I find learning a language can be easier of one has a true passion--mine is about overall health, which no doubt is quite an extensive topic. My ultimate goal was (and still is) for my English skills to top that of my mother tongue. It goes without saying that I'm getting there, though some have been telling me that I'm already there. Admittedly, I have very high standard and am known to be failrly demanding to myself and of others as well.

I've looked at language learning sytems like Rosetta Stone, and quite frankly, they're very basic, and I'm not sure how effective it is for most people.

I've been learning how to photoread, which basically means that I'm ready to give this system an honest whack. If it works, and I think it can work if one believes that it can, then THIS would be a superhighway to learning a new language in no time through building up needed vocabulary, idioms and the likes.

Getting back to having a passion : I found it to be easier for me to learn given the passion I've had about overall health. I've read a heck of a lot about it, and MOST ESPECIALLY have built a network of people sharing the very same passion for health, and ever since have exchanged a zillion emails, have posted on various boards and so on. This in turn has allowed me to learn to think in English, which I found to be rather hard at first, but over time paid huge dividends.

Strangely, I wouldn't describe myself as being ''into languages''. For some reason, I'm only into English as a second language, but I've been wanting to get as proficient at it as humanly possible in it. My perspective is : it's best to get a near complete mastery of a single language than learning bits and pieces of many. Having said that, that's only one of the many likely point of views.

Come to think of it, I guess my being HIGHLY inquisitive has played a large part in the learning process as well.

Ok, so that was my two cents

Hope it helps

[Gray Parrot]

I've never tried Rosseta Stone, but I've been using a Pimsleur course (free from my local library) for learning Portuguese, and it's pretty good. I wish I had discovered a similar system when I began learning Chinese many years ago.

[Joachim]

I had great success learning vocabulary using the Leitner system. It enables you to add new words on a daily basis (from 10 to 250 depending on the effort you put in) while keeping the need for repetition at a minimum. This is achieved by a special method to sort the cards depending on how well you already know them. A typical card index in the Leitner system has 5 different boxes. The specialty of such a card index is however that not all boxes are of the same size. The length of the boxes increases exponentially.

Now to learn a word you write the English word on the front of a card and the translation on the other side. If you have enough cards to fill the first box you can start. If you know a word you can put its card in the next box, else put it at the end of the first box. With time the second box will become full. With the cards from the second box you pretty much do the same thing However there is one important difference! Cards you didn't know won't stay in box 2 they go straight back to box 1. So basically if you know a word its card goes in the next box, elsewise it goes back to box one.

This way you will only be frequently repeating words you don't know well yet, enabling you to learn them better, while repetitions of words you already know very well are kept to a minimum. If for example you learn a word at the first time you see it you will only have to repeat it 4 more times.

You can use the following sizes for the boxes:
1: 1 cm
2: 2 cm
3: 4 cm
4: 8 cm
5: 16 cm

A card index for the Leitner system could look like this:

[Adrienne]

Originally Posted by chipdouglas

I thought I'd chime in on the language learning topic. I live near Montreal, and am a native speaker of French--although I wish English had been taught to me as a first language, but anyway ths is beside the point.

I've learned to write speak and understand English but integrating TV watching, going to the U.S. building my vocabulary by mainly reading from the web, and emailing people. I find learning a language can be easier of one has a true passion--mine is about overall health, which no doubt is quite an extensive topic. My ultimate goal was (and still is) for my English skills to top that of my mother tongue. It goes without saying that I'm getting there, though some have been telling me that I'm already there. Admittedly, I have very high standard and am known to be failrly demanding to myself and of others as well.

I've looked at language learning sytems like Rosetta Stone, and quite frankly, they're very basic, and I'm not sure how effective it is for most people.

I've been learning how to photoread, which basically means that I'm ready to give this system an honest whack. If it works, and I think it can work if one believes that it can, then THIS would be a superhighway to learning a new language in no time through building up needed vocabulary, idioms and the likes.

Getting back to having a passion : I found it to be easier for me to learn given the passion I've had about overall health. I've read a heck of a lot about it, and MOST ESPECIALLY have built a network of people sharing the very same passion for health, and ever since have exchanged a zillion emails, have posted on various boards and so on. This in turn has allowed me to learn to think in English, which I found to be rather hard at first, but over time paid huge dividends.

Strangely, I wouldn't describe myself as being ''into languages''. For some reason, I'm only into English as a second language, but I've been wanting to get as proficient at it as humanly possible in it. My perspective is : it's best to get a near complete mastery of a single language than learning bits and pieces of many. Having said that, that's only one of the many likely point of views.

Come to think of it, I guess my being HIGHLY inquisitive has played a large part in the learning process as well.

Ok, so that was my two cents

Hope it helps

Thanks for your two cents
I think the next thing i need to go is find a couple good tv shows in french.. actual french tv shows that i can watch.

Originally Posted by Gray Parrot

I've never tried Rosseta Stone, but I've been using a Pimsleur course (free from my local library) for learning Portuguese, and it's pretty good. I wish I had discovered a similar system when I began learning Chinese many years ago.

I just for the Pimsleur course and so far it seems to be pretty good. It teaches alot of vocab and grammer. I think after i get thru a few more lessons, i am going to be able to start trying to have basic (very basic) conversations and watch some french tv which i think will really help.

Originally Posted by Joachim

I had great success learning vocabulary using the Leitner system. It enables you to add new words on a daily basis (from 10 to 250 depending on the effort you put in) while keeping the need for repetition at a minimum. This is achieved by a special method to sort the cards depending on how well you already know them. A typical card index in the Leitner system has 5 different boxes. The specialty of such a card index is however that not all boxes are of the same size. The length of the boxes increases exponentially.

Now to learn a word you write the English word on the front of a card and the translation on the other side. If you have enough cards to fill the first box you can start. If you know a word you can put its card in the next box, else put it at the end of the first box. With time the second box will become full. With the cards from the second box you pretty much do the same thing However there is one important difference! Cards you didn't know won't stay in box 2 they go straight back to box 1. So basically if you know a word its card goes in the next box, elsewise it goes back to box one.

This way you will only be frequently repeating words you don't know well yet, enabling you to learn them better, while repetitions of words you already know very well are kept to a minimum. If for example you learn a word at the first time you see it you will only have to repeat it 4 more times.

You can use the following sizes for the boxes:
1: 1 cm
2: 2 cm
3: 4 cm
4: 8 cm
5: 16 cm

A card index for the Leitner system could look like this:

The Letiner system. I had not heard of that before. that is a great idea to keep reviewing the words. I will look ito this some more. thanks for the link!

adrienne

[Charly]

Well I'm a native French speaker and learned Spanish by taking an internship in Madrid. As for English it was immersion when I was a kid, so practically automatic.

Spanish only took three months that way, immersion far beats any other method. I don't think I would ever have been motivated enough to learn on my own from scratch, and classes in school were never my forte.

I would guess the best way to go would be surfing the web, and stopping at sentences / words you don't understand and look them up. Going audio too quickly with no one to interact with doesn't sound very realistic to me. I remember trying movies before going to Spain, it didn't work for me, and the frustration quickly set me off.

Bonne chance et bon courage!

Je vous ai suivi sur twitter pour suivre vos progrès qui seront, j'en suis sûr, phénoménaux!

[Adrienne]

Originally Posted by Charly

Well I'm a native French speaker and learned Spanish by taking an internship in Madrid. As for English it was immersion when I was a kid, so practically automatic.

Spanish only took three months that way, immersion far beats any other method. I don't think I would ever have been motivated enough to learn on my own from scratch, and classes in school were never my forte.

I would guess the best way to go would be surfing the web, and stopping at sentences / words you don't understand and look them up. Going audio too quickly with no one to interact with doesn't sound very realistic to me. I remember trying movies before going to Spain, it didn't work for me, and the frustration quickly set me off.

Bonne chance et bon courage!

Je vous ai suivi sur twitter pour suivre vos progrès qui seront, j'en suis sûr, phénoménaux!

that is ultimatly what i am hopping to do. Spend some time in Canada and France where i can full immerse myself in it. I just want to give myself a head start and learn as much as i can in the best method i can before i do that.

Ah, that is a good idea, i have not really been blogging or twittering about my french lessons.. mmmm i think i will go make an update now!
Thanks for the idea.

Adrienne

[Gray Parrot]

Originally Posted by Charly

immersion far beats any other method. I don't think I would ever have been motivated enough to learn on my own from scratch, and classes in school were never my forte.

I would guess the best way to go would be surfing the web, and stopping at sentences / words you don't understand and look them up. Going audio too quickly with no one to interact with doesn't sound very realistic to me. I remember trying movies before going to Spain, it didn't work for me, and the frustration quickly set me off.

I agree that immersion is the best method if you can do it, but it is possible to learn immediately from audio courses, if they are designed for beginners. I've done this successfully, and when I met native speakers, was able to speak straight away.

[alekseykravtsun]

Originally Posted by Adrienne

I am trying to learn a new language. I have had 4 years of French in school, and 2 years of ASL in school. But after 4 years of getting As in french, i still cant speak outside of a few basic words.
I am curious what tips people here have for learning new languages. Any good products?
I have learning French and Learning Spanish on the DS and they are fun games, but i am not sure how much it is really helping me.
Anyone have any tips, programs, TV shows to watch to help learn french or other languages? Does the Rosetta stone programs help?

I have taken a look online for meetup groups on meetup.com and have not found anything promising yet.
Any suggestions would be great!

Adrienne

Hi Adrienne,
My native is Russian but I speak couple languages more, and one of them is English, it's far away of perfectness, but I can do my business with it, any way when I start to learn it was a hard time and I just apply to good advise and took one big study book and learn from begining to end, then few years later I had challenge to prepare for IELTS where obtained pretty good marks,
may be you should put some deadline like to pass certain exam with certain marks or be able to read specific books with out dictionary... Regarding mthodics the inet is just overfilled with it, I can share later with them if you wish.
Aleksey.

[gbarv]

To help with memorizing vocabulary try a Spaced Repetition System.. The best are Anki and Mnemosyne.

[LeahWhitehorse]

I love reading how others learn languages. I'm learning Portuguese and I use a website called Lingq. (LingQ - The future of language learning). There's a free version or paid versions. I used the free version for ages and then moved up to the first paid version. The person who set up the system is fluent in 10 languages, most of them learned after the age of 25 (very inspiring for me being a 40 something!). Basically the system is based on listening to natural speech and reading the text at the same time until you start to absorb what is being said. There's no pressure to speak until you feel ready. I find it incredibly helpful.
My general tips are to use your target language at every opportunity - for example I have my facebook in Portuguese and my mobile! Listen to the radio online, keep a dictionary or target language book with you at all times so you can dip into it, listen to music sung in the language you want to learn, watch films, read your favourite novels in your target language, talk out loud to yourself - listen to your accent! Find someone who you can talk with on or offline. Join a forum about something or someone you absolutely love - love and passion are motivating factors! I absolutely adore the Portuguese language, the culture, the people. Study every single day is better than a longer session each week - use the leitner flashcard system as it works with your own level of recall.

I hope those tips help

[newmark]

LeahWhitehorse; I'm learning Portuguese too. Could you tell me about LingQ. What are the lengths of the texts used? And what kind of materials are they? For example, novels or non-fiction?
I think that apart from actually immersing yourself in the local culture and speaking the language everyday, then reading and listening, a lot is the next best way to learn a language.
I agree, too, that facebook is a good place to meet speakers of the language you are interested in.

[cacheborn]

Bonjour Adrienne,

I can totally understand your situation. I speak Italian quite well and according to many Italian and French speakers it should be a piece of cake for me to learn French. However, even after spending one year in France, I was not able to make much progress with my French. The main problem I encountered was that the pronunciation rules were quite different from English, with many letters silent. Many times I could not correlate between the written and the spoken words. And the way they combine words made it more complicated.

The best way is try to use the language as much as possible. Read, write, speak, listen. Thats how I learnt Italian, which was my first romance language.
I like to read this blog. BASIC FRENCH LESSONS
The posts are not very frequent, but they are interesting. It has French songs and conversations along with their meanings.

Bon chance

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by cacheborn

However, even after spending one year in France, I was not able to make much progress with my French.

When you were in France, did you hang out a lot with people who didn't speak French? From what I've observed with non-English speakers coming to America, as well as my own experience in learning a second language, when you go to a foreign speaking country and you keep hanging out with people who speak your language, it seriously hurts your ability to learn the new language. When you avoid hanging out with those who speak your language and you instead hang out with those who speak the language you are learning, it helps tremendously.

[cacheborn]

Originally Posted by seeker5

When you were in France, did you hang out a lot with people who didn't speak French? From what I've observed with non-English speakers coming to America, as well as my own experience in learning a second language, when you go to a foreign speaking country and you keep hanging out with people who speak your language, it seriously hurts your ability to learn the new language. When you avoid hanging out with those who speak your language and you instead hang out with those who speak the language you are learning, it helps tremendously.

I know what you mean, seeker5. well, I did try to hang out with French people. Thats how I learnt Italian, full immersion. (I spent a couple of years in Italy before going to France.) with French the main difficulty was my ear was not trained for the language. So many times, even though I knew the sentence from the book, but when somebody was saying it, it took me a long time to figure out what she was saying. It's not an excuse. I should have worked more diligently.

Off course, it does not mean I have given up. IMO, French language is so beautiful and melodious that I have to learn it no matter how long it takes. And then I will go back to France and assault the old ladies (and young ones, too) gossiping in cafes.

[Adrienne]

Originally Posted by Gray Parrot

I agree that immersion is the best method if you can do it, but it is possible to learn immediately from audio courses, if they are designed for beginners. I've done this successfully, and when I met native speakers, was able to speak straight away.

Yeah, immersion is what i am ultimately going for. To go to France for a month and be able to speak and really get into the language, i a just want a running head start before i do that.

Originally Posted by alekseykravtsun

Hi Adrienne,
My native is Russian but I speak couple languages more, and one of them is English, it's far away of perfectness, but I can do my business with it, any way when I start to learn it was a hard time and I just apply to good advise and took one big study book and learn from begining to end, then few years later I had challenge to prepare for IELTS where obtained pretty good marks,
may be you should put some deadline like to pass certain exam with certain marks or be able to read specific books with out dictionary... Regarding mthodics the inet is just overfilled with it, I can share later with them if you wish.
Aleksey.

Thats an idea, to give myself a time line for the level i expect myself to be at. I kinda made a general goal to be able to converse with friends in french before i went to france, but that is not a very well defined goal.

Originally Posted by gbarv

To help with memorizing vocabulary try a Spaced Repetition System.. The best are Anki and Mnemosyne.

Thanks for the link. I had not tried that before. Thanks for the recommendation, i will look those programs up

[Adrienne]

Originally Posted by cacheborn

Bonjour Adrienne,

I can totally understand your situation. I speak Italian quite well and according to many Italian and French speakers it should be a piece of cake for me to learn French. However, even after spending one year in France, I was not able to make much progress with my French. The main problem I encountered was that the pronunciation rules were quite different from English, with many letters silent. Many times I could not correlate between the written and the spoken words. And the way they combine words made it more complicated.

The best way is try to use the language as much as possible. Read, write, speak, listen. Thats how I learnt Italian, which was my first romance language.
I like to read this blog. BASIC FRENCH LESSONS
The posts are not very frequent, but they are interesting. It has French songs and conversations along with their meanings.

Bon chance

Thanks for the blog link. I took a quick look and so far it seems interesting. Thanks for your input

[Adrienne]

Originally Posted by LeahWhitehorse

I love reading how others learn languages. I'm learning Portuguese and I use a website called Lingq. (LingQ - The future of language learning). There's a free version or paid versions. I used the free version for ages and then moved up to the first paid version. The person who set up the system is fluent in 10 languages, most of them learned after the age of 25 (very inspiring for me being a 40 something!). Basically the system is based on listening to natural speech and reading the text at the same time until you start to absorb what is being said. There's no pressure to speak until you feel ready. I find it incredibly helpful.
My general tips are to use your target language at every opportunity - for example I have my facebook in Portuguese and my mobile! Listen to the radio online, keep a dictionary or target language book with you at all times so you can dip into it, listen to music sung in the language you want to learn, watch films, read your favourite novels in your target language, talk out loud to yourself - listen to your accent! Find someone who you can talk with on or offline. Join a forum about something or someone you absolutely love - love and passion are motivating factors! I absolutely adore the Portuguese language, the culture, the people. Study every single day is better than a longer session each week - use the leitner flashcard system as it works with your own level of recall.

I hope those tips help

I have never heard of that website before. I started looking at it, and it looks a bit like live mocha, but has some different features which look like they could be very helpful. Thanks for the link.
Yeah, i am starting to use the Leitner flash card system to help me remember some of my new vocabulary.
That is my next goal, to find someone i can talk to in french a couple times a week to up my vocabulary and get some real practice.

[kwicherbichen]

I love to learn new language! I think I have a natural knack for it.

What helps me is to watch some tv or commercials or something in that language with subtitles. I will catch some sentences I find interesting and dissect the sentence. This teaches me grammar and syntax. I will learn the little words that make up a sentence and combine it with words I already know. I will also like to talk or IM people in that language.

Rossetta stone is the best, I think, but it is expensive.