Abstaining from pleasure and increasing self discipline = success

[andrew112]

Abstaining from pleasure and increasing self discipline = success. The more one abstains from pleasure and the more one increases disciplined habits the more successful one becomes.

[Remiel]

Originally Posted by andrew112

Abstaining from pleasure and increasing self discipline = success. The more one abstains from pleasure and the more one increases disciplined habits the more successful one becomes.

Uhhh.... I'm just going to have to disagree with you here.
Increasing Self Discipline = Success, YES!
Abstaining from pleasure to achieve it? Hell No!

Pleasure can take many many forms and to me one of the best things I can do is the thing that I enjoy doing. Another thing, I've gone into a 100% increase self discipline at the cost of pleasure mode over 4 times now. Each time I've burned myself out. The longest I went with no pleasure was 1 week. It took me a week to recover. This last time I learned from my prior mistake but had to make another mistake. I gave myself 2 hours of me time and that seemed to work. I dropped it down to 1 hour and after a week and a half I burned myself out. It also took me a week to recover, just finished recovering from it today actually.

So my belief is that life without any sort of rest or fun is not a life worth living. Nor is it one that I can handle with my personality type (100% I in the DISC test).

If it works for you, great, I think. I just know it will never work for me. Also defeats the purpose of self discipline, doesn't it?

[Angela]

Originally Posted by andrew112

Abstaining from pleasure and increasing self discipline = success. The more one abstains from pleasure and the more one increases disciplined habits the more successful one becomes.

Feh! That's not my idea of success!

[Dot]

Originally Posted by andrew112

Abstaining from pleasure and increasing self discipline = success. The more one abstains from pleasure and the more one increases disciplined habits the more successful one becomes.

Hey, andrew, did you just pull that out of your butt because you need some motto to live by? : )

Really. Where are you kids getting this goofy stuff?

[Mattyyy]

Originally Posted by andrew112

The more one abstains from pleasure and the more one increases disciplined habits the more successful one becomes.

What if you're a prostitute?

[pschriel]

I do not agree with you on abstaining from pleasure. Life is supposed to be fun, do not take it that seriously. What is success if you cannot enjoy it? But I guess it all depends on your own definition of success.

My definition of success is about feeling good, doing what I like to do. The funny thing is I wrote a blog article about this not too long ago, you may want to check it out:

The Definition of Success

[Eric Roosevelt]

Originally Posted by andrew112

Abstaining from pleasure and increasing self discipline = success. The more one abstains from pleasure and the more one increases disciplined habits the more successful one becomes.

I think I know what you mean, andrew112. Often actions that don't feel good in the short term, set you up to feel extra good in the long term. However, the whole point of abstaining from pleasure, in that case, is to get pleasure later on.

Your ultimate goal (and definition of success) is to achieve pleasure of some kind, no?

[andrew112]

Originally Posted by Eric Roosevelt

I think I know what you mean, andrew112. Often actions that don't feel good in the short term, set you up to feel extra good in the long term. However, the whole point of abstaining from pleasure, in that case, is to get pleasure later on.

Your ultimate goal (and definition of success) is to achieve pleasure of some kind, no?

The ultimate goal is to have pleasure, so yes; in the long term though. The whole idea is to abstain from pleasure and increase self discipline so that one gains the greatest pleasure of all in the long term. The longer one holds off to experience pleasure, the greater the pleaure is when one does finally experience pleasure.

[andrew112]

Originally Posted by Mattyyy

What if you're a prostitute?

That does not equal success; there is pain and there are consequences for being a prostitute.

[andrew112]

Originally Posted by Dot

Hey, andrew, did you just pull that out of your butt because you need some motto to live by? : )

Really. Where are you kids getting this goofy stuff?

I would not call this "goofy" at all, so I do not know what you are talking about there. The whole point of abstaining from pleasure is so that in the long term one experiences the greatest pleasure of all. The longer one abstains from pleasure, the greater the pleasure is when one does finally experience it.

[andrew112]

Originally Posted by Remiel

Uhhh.... I'm just going to have to disagree with you here.
Increasing Self Discipline = Success, YES!
Abstaining from pleasure to achieve it? Hell No!

Pleasure can take many many forms and to me one of the best things I can do is the thing that I enjoy doing. Another thing, I've gone into a 100% increase self discipline at the cost of pleasure mode over 4 times now. Each time I've burned myself out. The longest I went with no pleasure was 1 week. It took me a week to recover. This last time I learned from my prior mistake but had to make another mistake. I gave myself 2 hours of me time and that seemed to work. I dropped it down to 1 hour and after a week and a half I burned myself out. It also took me a week to recover, just finished recovering from it today actually.

So my belief is that life without any sort of rest or fun is not a life worth living. Nor is it one that I can handle with my personality type (100% I in the DISC test).

If it works for you, great, I think. I just know it will never work for me. Also defeats the purpose of self discipline, doesn't it?

The longer one abstains from pleasure, the greater the pleasure is when one does finally experience it.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by andrew112

The longer one abstains from pleasure, the greater the pleasure is when one does finally experience it.

This reminds me of that old joke about the guy who wears his shoes a size too small, for the pleasure of taking them off at night.

It just doesn't work that way, in my experience. The more I practice pleasure, the more it expands, and the deeper and more rewarding pleasure grows. Abstaining and then indulging have made it *seem* like more of a contrast, and it may have that longed-for pleasure occur as if it were greater, but I've seen that that's an illusion, and a limiting belief.

But that's just me. If success for you equals abstaining from pleasure and focusing on self-discipline, I'm behind you all the way.

Employers will love you!

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by andrew112

The ultimate goal is to have pleasure, so yes; in the long term though. The whole idea is to abstain from pleasure and increase self discipline so that one gains the greatest pleasure of all in the long term. The longer one holds off to experience pleasure, the greater the pleaure is when one does finally experience pleasure.

Works for me when postponing an orgasm .

[Angela]

Originally Posted by spirit4711

Works for me when postponing an orgasm .

I'd rather just have a string of increasingly intense orgasms.

[Chris_1977]

Originally Posted by andrew112

Abstaining from pleasure and increasing self discipline = success. The more one abstains from pleasure and the more one increases disciplined habits the more successful one becomes.

Sounds more like the recipe for burnout....

Besides, this recipe does not mention the need of vision. I.e., the ability to decide what the worthy cause is that you are going to direct your self-dicipline to. Lots of people work very hard but don't get anywhere. Basically they are slaves.

I like the Robin Sharma definition of success. Finding a worthy cause and being on the path towards it = success.

[craftyjake]

Originally Posted by andrew112

The longer one abstains from pleasure, the greater the pleasure is when one does finally experience it.

I definitely do not agree with that. The pleasure you experience is based on your beliefs, experiences, and values. If someone gives me a million dollars today, I'd be just as happy if I were to have gotten it twenty years down the road through pain-staking work. Sure, the pleasure may FADE SOONER, but the pleasure would be THE SAME INTENSITY. Just my two cents.

[Swede]

I think that nothing worthwhile can be achieved without sustained work. Now sometimes the work demanded towards your goal might be easy and cheerful, and sometimes it demands the greatest possible of efforts. For example, carving out a marble statue will never be an easy work, yet the world still admires David by Michelangelo. And a lot of work done in a much more leisureful way are wholly forgotten.

[Virtue121]

Most people are a slave to pleasure. Many people ruin their chances of real success by chasing after temporary pleasures. There are 2 kinds of happiness. Dependent happiness relies on particilar external circumstances-that kind of happiness always has the seeds of suffering and insecurity in it. It is transient. Independent happiness is ever your natural state behind the obscurations of seeking after pleasure and avoiding suffering. It is transcendental.

[Nex]

success = pleasure
abstaining from pleasure = abstaining from success.
It is a loser mentality.

[andrew112]

This is my whole theory:

I believe that all success comes from God. In order for someone to succeed in any way, they must temporarily follow the way of God. My definition of "temporarily" varies widely, as there are many different degrees or levels of success. For example, someone that decides to abstain from eating junk food for a couple weeks has achieved success to a certain degree. However, if someone decides to abstain from eating junk food for an entire year, that person has achieved success on a much larger scale, as the results are far greater than the preceding results in the previous example. Think of it as making a small shift in personal habits; over time that small shift brings the person to a totally different destination than if the person had not made that small shift. Picture the difference between making the shift and not making shift as the difference between the degree measure of an angle being 30 degrees and 0 degrees. The greater the degree of discipline, the greater the success.

Here is another theory:

Sometimes discipline can lead to pleasure, if one chooses to experience that pleasure. However, if one does not discipline themselves in any way, how can there be any long term pleasure? The greatest pleasures of all are always acheived through discipline. The pain of not disciplining oneself is far greater than the pain of disciplining oneself, and the pleaure experienced from being indulging and not disciplined is far less than the pleasure experienced from disciplining oneself. For example, being disciplined results in a feeling of well being and being guilt-free, which is the greatest pleasure of all IMO.

I am mentally ill btw, which explains the disorganized ideas that are sometimes unrelated to one another. I have schizophrenia, which I am currently trying to overcome, along with my other mental illnesses.

[aelle]

Originally Posted by andrew112

The ultimate goal is to have pleasure, so yes; in the long term though. The whole idea is to abstain from pleasure and increase self discipline so that one gains the greatest pleasure of all in the long term. The longer one holds off to experience pleasure, the greater the pleaure is when one does finally experience pleasure.

I don't agree. If you truly align yourself with your ultimate goals, the road is pleasurable too, not just the final stop.

[JoeRad]

Well Andrew, I certainly applaud your outlook to life, and the fact that you recognize the challenges you face, and your willingness to deal with them.

As for my part, I understand the need to delay some pleasures, and how something that is pleasurable can damage you.

I'm fat, not morbidly obese, but at least 50 pounds above what I should be. it is slowly choking off the life I want to live. I am unattractive, low energy, and developing blood-sugar disorders. I am also addicted to all the wrong kinds of food. I say addicted, because they bring me pleasure, and thus, my will-power to avoid them in the long-term hasn't worked out to this point.

Now, indulging my pleasure certainly relives tension, and helps me cope with other stresses of life...but its destroying my body and my future. Thus, this pleasure is very bad for me.

I'll get a handle on it....buts its going to take "overwhelming force" and discipline to do so.

[DoctorB2B]

God or not Andrew, here is one of the certain truths that none of us can evade ... Tomorrow doesn't exist on a calendar. I don't find it wise if you live your life like tomorrow is promised.

I'd rather live a life with pleasure knowing that I may never get to experience it again than not.

However, I think it necessary for you to define "pleasure" and "success". You named issues with food, which I agree with. However, on a grander scale what are you talking about?

[Talkofthatown919]

hmm interesting.. But i'd have to disagree with this if you sustain yourself from pleasure then how would you enjoy your success?

[Sam kovacs]

I think i get your point andrew. You're just not doing a very good job at explaining it.

STop me if i'm wrong but what i've understood from what you're saying is :

Abstain from short term pleasures that are actually long term pain, right?

Like eating a bar of chocolate. Over three minutes( or thirty if you have ten bars of chocolate =D), you have the pleasure of eating chocolate. But on the long term you experiance the pain of being obese. Right?

And if you abstain from your ten daily bars of chocolate. You succeed, because you loose weight and you are proud of you're body.

It's once again a simple pain/pleasure thing.

It produces more pleasure being fit, than eating a bar of chocolate.

Having the girls looking at you at the swimming pool because you've got that body you deserve produces more pleasure, than eating chocolate for 3 min.

Being fat is more painful, than eating brocoli instead of chocolate.

So you don't eat chocolate, in order to be fit.

Is that your point?

Because if it is i agree.

If it isn't, well i'm gonna have to ask you to develop more.

[UIS4821]

Just like most things in life. You need to find a happy medium. Discipline is great and worth obtaining however no fun will make you a dull and boring person.

Don't be militant!

[andrew112]

Originally Posted by Sam kovacs

I think i get your point andrew. You're just not doing a very good job at explaining it.

STop me if i'm wrong but what i've understood from what you're saying is :

Abstain from short term pleasures that are actually long term pain, right?

Like eating a bar of chocolate. Over three minutes( or thirty if you have ten bars of chocolate =D), you have the pleasure of eating chocolate. But on the long term you experiance the pain of being obese. Right?

And if you abstain from your ten daily bars of chocolate. You succeed, because you loose weight and you are proud of you're body.

It's once again a simple pain/pleasure thing.

It produces more pleasure being fit, than eating a bar of chocolate.

Having the girls looking at you at the swimming pool because you've got that body you deserve produces more pleasure, than eating chocolate for 3 min.

Being fat is more painful, than eating brocoli instead of chocolate.

So you don't eat chocolate, in order to be fit.

Is that your point?

Because if it is i agree.

If it isn't, well i'm gonna have to ask you to develop more.

Yes, I think I need to "develop more" because I am currently battling mental illness, which is preventing me from explaining my ideas more accurately and in greater detail.

What you have said above is correct though, and I agree with it.

[andrew112]

Originally Posted by UIS4821

Just like most things in life. You need to find a happy medium. Discipline is great and worth obtaining however no fun will make you a dull and boring person.

Don't be militant!

LOL, I think I would rather be militant though, and then get extreme benefits for being extremely disciplined.

[jamesbiz]

Originally Posted by andrew112

This is my whole theory:

I believe that all success comes from God. In order for someone to succeed in any way, they must temporarily follow the way of God. My definition of "temporarily" varies widely, as there are many different degrees or levels of success. For example, someone that decides to abstain from eating junk food for a couple weeks has achieved success to a certain degree. However, if someone decides to abstain from eating junk food for an entire year, that person has achieved success on a much larger scale, as the results are far greater than the preceding results in the previous example. Think of it as making a small shift in personal habits; over time that small shift brings the person to a totally different destination than if the person had not made that small shift. Picture the difference between making the shift and not making shift as the difference between the degree measure of an angle being 30 degrees and 0 degrees. The greater the degree of discipline, the greater the success.

Here is another theory:

Sometimes discipline can lead to pleasure, if one chooses to experience that pleasure. However, if one does not discipline themselves in any way, how can there be any long term pleasure? The greatest pleasures of all are always acheived through discipline. The pain of not disciplining oneself is far greater than the pain of disciplining oneself, and the pleaure experienced from being indulging and not disciplined is far less than the pleasure experienced from disciplining oneself. For example, being disciplined results in a feeling of well being and being guilt-free, which is the greatest pleasure of all IMO.

I am mentally ill btw, which explains the disorganized ideas that are sometimes unrelated to one another. I have schizophrenia, which I am currently trying to overcome, along with my other mental illnesses.

If everyone believed in success coming from god, then no one would have pleasure. You might want to account for your schizophrenia when relying on a god to run your life for you.

Unless your god told you that you are going to live long enough to enjoy the fruits of your labor, then torturing your self with the " pain of discipline" is a pointless venture. Don't be the man who dies with a bank full of money, never to enjoy the time they actually do have on this planet.

What extreme benefits are you planning on receiving, and why do you feel that the second you get there, all you will have is pleasure? You think that the second you get your pleasure, that you will no longer have to work for it? Or will you drop your whole abstaining from pleasure thing all together? What exactly is your goal? Where do you plan on going? It's almost like you think that when you finally achieve success, that will be it. A believer of god shouldn't even care so much about extreme pleasure, unless you mean the extreme pleasure of heaven?

[Brutha]

The idea of developing discipline without experiencing pleasure or a lot of pain usually doesn't work.

There isn't some knob that you can turn that will make you more self disciplined and that knob certainly wouldn't be abstaining from all pleasure.