What's up with these "30 Day Challenges?"

[Dot]

What's up with all this?

Why "30 Days?"

Why does it have to be a "Challenge?"

Let's explore and flush this out. I think a lot of this is nonsense, and setting up an arbitrary framework, and people walking off half-cocked, with little to no understanding of what they want, how to go about it, or any real understanding of the process.

Help me out here...

[Froztwolf]

30 day challenges are generally an attempt to change one's habits. At least this is the end to which they were devised.

Psychology research shows that it takes most people ca 3 weeks to affect a permanent change in one's habits so the 30 days goes a little beyond that to proved some safety from fluctuation. The exact amount of days is not important as long as it's known from the beginning.

If it's not challenging then it's not a big change from your current patter. People's behavior is governed by a huge deal of inertia so any deviation from the current pattern is challenging.

I'm not sure what it is that you are seeking to flush out. This is a useful tool to change one's habits, not a panacea to whatever ails you. It's always up to you to choose what habit you want to change and how you will go about it. The 30 day experiment just forces you to do it long enough to overcome the inertia and see what's on the other side.

[Dot]

Originally Posted by Froztwolf

30 day challenges are generally an attempt to change one's habits. At least this is the end to which they were devised.

Psychology research shows...

OK, good. This is definitely something we can chew on. Thanks, Froztwolf.

Where's the research?

[Angela]

Much of this is the influence of the forum's owner, who has described how he's gotten great results using 30 day trials since the very beginning of his blogging.

It's no mystery that people here would want to give it a go, too, don't you think?

It looks to me like some people are using it a less than efficient way; for instance, using a 30 day trial to generate an internal state doesn't make too much sense, because that can be done in the blink of an eye. Or thinking too small -- where a 30 day trial is like using a bulldozer to drive in a nail. Or jumping blind without having done any prep work.

But for deliberately changing habitual thought or behavior, if it's done thoughtfully, I think it's a very good tool. I've made some big changes in my life by giving myself a month to try them on.

[alainplus]

What's your actual contention here, Dot?

You haven't even offered an alternative. Why don't you share with us what you've discovered as a more successful way to result in change?

There are numerous bloggers who have found sucess with the method and numerous who haven't. It really just depends on individual factors like patience, willpower, and the circumstances. For example, I don't recommend going raw during finals week or during tought times at work.

It's really just a loose principle that can be changed to your needs. It doesn't have be 30 days. It could be a year or it could be 15 days or just one day. Most people just find it more convenient to stick with 30 days (a month).

[Dot]

Originally Posted by alainplus

What's your actual contention here, Dot?

You haven't even offered an alternative.

No contention at all, alainplus. And I have offered an alternative. And that's to begin to understand and examine the framework and motives - by unpacking them and looking behind the curtain. Angela has given us a very acute observation, It looks to me like some people are using it a less than efficient way....

Well, why? That's something to pull out of the bag and have a look-see.

Why don't you share with us what you've discovered as a more successful way to result in change?

I'm doing it. This is it. Examining, unpacking, exploring, playing with it, gaining in new awareness. Let's keep rolling. : )

[alainplus]

Be alittle more specific.

Btw, there is no de facto way of effecting change. There are some general principles but people do things very differently. It all comes down to the individual.

[Dot]

Here, I'll throw something out to play with...

There's a current topic here, "30 days without masturbation or pornography"

Well, looks to me like it has MASTURBATION and PORNOGRAPHY written all over it. I'll bet the person who wrote had a wank while looking at some hotties today, too.

If this framework of "30 Days" is to be useful, we have to ask what we want to use it for. It seems the common theme is change. Change for what? Change to what? And do we understand some of the changes we want to make? Because many of us are chasing our tails, and even working towards some kind of change that we don't even understand.

Here's an idea: we can not work towards negatives to affect changes we want. : ) Because if we do that, we focus and move towards the very things/conditions/experiences we say we don't want.

I think the chances of someone starting a 30-Day Challenge entitled, "30 days without masturbation or pornography" is - in very real likelihood - going to wank to porn for the next month. And - the even bigger bummer - they're going to feel bad about it the whole time.

And THAT is not the way to go about things. Something like this needs much much much more exploration. Before even setting out we need to take a serious look at where we are. Then decide where we want to go. And it is that very "where we want to go" that needs to be the focus.

And we need to really examine if we actually need to go there, anyway. Or is it just a destination we came up with to get us away from where we are.

Change does not happen in 30 days. Change occurs NOW. It impossible for us not to change. We can either change towards what we want, or we can change towards what we don't want.

Change is not the real challenge. In fact, there is no challenge. Why should there be? What do we want to force?

My 2¢.

[alainplus]

You're just rationalizationing and that's boring. Why don't you join us on the 30-day nonmasturbation/pornography challenge? You can be Kramer since you have no faith whatosever.

[Daffy Duck]

30 day trials have proven results. You talk about them as if they can't work for people, but they do.

You said, "We can either change towards what we want, or we can change towards what we don't want." I agree, and 30 day trials is one of the many ways people go about doing this.

It doesn't have to be a "challenge." If you want to play semantics, you might notice that Steve calls it "30 Days to Success." Nothing about a challenge...

[Angela]

Well, yes, that's one of those things that I think is probably one of the ineffective uses of a 30 day trial. You get more of what you focus on, and the unconscious mind doesn't process negatives; focusing on NOT-what you want is the same thing to your unconscious as focusing on what you NOT-want -- so you get more of what you not-want. So the OP in that thread has effectively built himself a 30 day focus on pornography and masturbation. D'oh!

Away-from motivation is a great way to *blast off* from an undesired habit, but absent a towards-motivation, an inspiring new possibility, it does tend to bungee you right back into the undesired habit.

I think 30 day trials work better for building towards-motivation. If I was starting with an away-from motivation, like the porn/wank one, I would ask myself: What does that provide? and what does THAT provide? and so on, till I get to a value, a To-Mo. (I like that; just made it up! )

I only get to choose for myself, though. The OP will have his own results, and learn what there is to learn for himself, and that's perfect.

[Dot]

Originally Posted by alainplus

Be alittle more specific.

Btw, there is no de facto way of effecting change. There are some general principles but people do things very differently.

What are those general principles, alainplus?

When we see/witness people "doing things very differently" - we only see the outer layers, and we see people "doing things very differently" at many different levels. Some people suck at what they do. Suck at almost everything. Some people are OK at what they do, and are OK at almost everything. Live at an OK level. Some people are "good" at what they do. And some people are "excellent" at what they do, and live in excellence.

And behind all those different levels of people, are common somethings. All the OK people live, think, and breathe on an OK level. And maybe that's OK with them. It's OK with me.

How about looking at the people who suck. What are the common principles and attributes of people who do and live just about everything in a sucky way? And maybe they're fine with that. Many people, whether they realize it or not, need to have lives that suck. Because then they can pass the buck, they can slumber, ZZZZzzzzzzzzz.

Let's look at the common principles behind the people who live at the good and excellent levels. Whether they make pizza, are on the rowing team, or are gay - they're good/excellent at it. And often good and excellent in nearly everything they chose to do. And I imagine that's because they're in line with something. What is that? What are those common principles?

[Angela]

Originally Posted by alainplus

You're just rationalizationing and that's boring. Why don't you join us on the 30-day nonmasturbation/pornography challenge? You can be Kramer since you have no faith whatosever.

I hadn't been thinking about it, but now all of a sudden I want to look at some porn!

[alainplus]

Dot, talk all want, but it's easier done. Join the challenge. We need a fourth man.

During the 30 days, we can discuss the aesthetic qualities of Maoist doctrine.

I hadn't been thinking about it, but now all of a sudden I want to look at some porn!

Ah! You're killing your halo effect! :O

And now you dare tempt me! It shall not work!

[Angela]

Originally Posted by alainplus

Ah! You're killing your halo effect! :O

Angels get horny too, you know.

[Dot]

Originally Posted by alainplus

Dot, talk all want, but it's easier done. Join the challenge. We need a fourth man.

Sure enough, alainplus! I'm in. Who's putting up the juicy porn links? I could use a good wank.

Well, on second thought, I not sure if I can wank and watch porn for 30 days in a row. I might have to sit this one out.

[CarolM]

[QUOTE=alainplus;367113]Dot, talk all want, but it's easier done. Join the challenge. We need a fourth man.

During the 30 days, we can discuss the aesthetic qualities of Maoist doctrine.

Ummmmm I for one am not going to advocate this challenge. Since I am with Dot. Selfish I know, but maybe he can be challenged in another area, and see how that works.

[Daffy Duck]

I understand the general advice for intentions is to state it in the positive, like "I have healthy lungs" instead of "I am not smoking."

However, it's very possible to state your intentions in the negative and have them come true. I'm sure plenty of people have stopped smoking by declaring, "I am not smoking anymore."

The failure or success of a goal is not 100% dependent on the words we use when discussing it. As long as we're clear and serious about what we want, we can make it happen.

alainplus, I could join your challenge, but since I have no real desires for porn or wanking, there's no point. Now, if you would have suggested this when I was a teenager, then it could have been an interesting battle...

FYI, the first pornographic images I can remember seeing were porn actors dressed up like characters from The Wizard of Oz. I think I was 13 or so. The Scarecrow may not of had a brain, but he certainly had something else that Dorothy admired.

[alainplus]

Angels get horny too, you know.

You've been demoted for tampering with my limiting beliefs!

Sure enough, alainplus! I'm in. Who's putting up the juicy porn links? I could use a good wank.

Well, on second thought, I not sure if I can wank and watch porn for 30 days in a row. I might have to sit this one out.

You're no fun at all. We're only asking 30 days of your life. And you're not even required to do anything! It's when you do it that you are penalized.

Ummmmm I for one am not going to advocate this challenge. Since I am with Dot. Selfish I know, but maybe he can be challenged in another area, and see how that works.

Another area.... like critical thinking?

[CarolM]

Originally Posted by alainplus

Another area.... like critical thinking?

Could be.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

However, it's very possible to state your intentions in the negative and have them come true.

Yup. Look at all the overwhelming success people have in their quest to lose weight!

By the way, I wasn't saying it's wrong or bad to use away-from motivation; as I mentioned, I think it can be a great way to blast-off from what you don't want. Just saying it can draw you back in to the undesired behavior if you don't have a towards-motivation that pulls you into the orbit you want to be in. You know all the people who say, "I need to lose weight!" but they are not thinking thoughts about living a healthy, slender, active, clean-eating lifestyle -- the weight tends to yo-yo as they use the away-from motivation to lose the weight, and as soon as they lose the weight, the old beliefs and dhabits kick back in because they haven't build inspiring new ones to fill the vacuum.

[Dot]

Originally Posted by Angela

Yup. Look at all the overwhelming success people have in their quest to lose weight!

Yup. Ever notice how fat people - who never actually lose any weight for any real length of time - have the word FAT written all over the food in their refrigerator.

What kinds of messages do you think someone is sending to themselves when they look in the fridge and see a barrage of Low-FAT, FAT Free, Less FAT, Lower FAT, No Fat....

And what kinds of messages do you think the corporations who make these products are sending out to their target market? Who, of course, are none other than all the FAT people. And do you think there's any motivation behind the corporations actually wanting anyone to get to a healthy body weight? Of course, not. 'Cause then there wouldn't be anymore FAT people to buy their stuff.

[Daffy Duck]

Dot, so if they called it Skinny Milk instead of Low-Fat Milk, do you think people would be more successful? You might be right. Would be an interesting study.

Angela, whether I have the goal of "losing weight" or "being healthy" -- what ultimately determines my success will be my exercise habits and what I eat, not what words I use to describe the process. If you don't believe me, then just look at all the overwhelming success people have in their quest to be healthy!

However, it is true that some words are better motivators than others, I would agree...

You guys and your semantics, I swear, lol (And I say this as someone who usually consciously thinks and speaks positively anyway). Ya know, one time I beat a friend in basketball while repeating "you're gonna beat me, I'm going to lose, I'm missing this shot, etc." The words had no effect on me because my actions were shooting the ball successfully -- and that's what mattered.

[CarolM]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

Dot, so if they called it Skinny Milk instead of Low-Fat Milk, do you think people would be more successful? You might be right. Would be an interesting study.

I think there have been a few "Skinny" products on the market. I found one on my so not exhaustive search hehe..."Skinny Cow" Ice Cream products. Someone is on the track to skinny. Then I wonder...is "Skinny" even desireable? How about healthy or whole. Just my 2c

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

You guys and your semantics

It's not about semantics, Daff. It's about what I've noticed: we get more of what we focus on.

People who focus on losing weight tend to make that their lifestyle, and they spend their lives trying to lose weight. People who focus on being healthy tend to make healthy living their lifestyle, and they live healthy lives. I know that's so for myself. I've focused on losing weight, and I've focused on being power-packed vitality, and the difference in results has been extraordinary. I ended up weighing less in both cases, but the difference goes far beyond mere semantics!

[Daffy Duck]

Originally Posted by Angela

we get more of what we focus on.

I agree. My point is that just because someone says "I'm trying to lose weight" doesn't mean they're not focused on being healthy. Indeed, they may be trying to lose weight by being healthy.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

I agree. My point is that just because someone says "I'm trying to lose weight" doesn't mean they're not focused on being healthy. Indeed, they may be trying to lose weight by being healthy.

Right. That's what I've been saying here, with all my nattering about away-from and towards- motivations. One way focus shows up is: what words is the person saying to others? And to himself of course. It's not the only way, but it's a pretty good clue. That's why when someone writes an away-from post, I encourage them to build a towards-, too. He may or may not already be doing that. (Around here, as often as not, he's not.) Plus it helps create an upward spiral -- when one person is focusing on what he wants, it tends to get others inspired to do the same.

I'm feeling pretty inspired by Derek Fisher, with his laser-like focus during the playoffs. It was like he projected success out towards the basket, and then all he had to do was throw the ball in the direction of his projection. Of course, that's all my projection!

[Daffy Duck]

As a former Orlando resident who would have slightly preferred to see the Magic win, I do not share in your enthusiasm towards Derek Fisher.

First the Lakers take Shaq from us in the 90s, and now the Lakers take the championship... hahahah.

[Angela]

Sorry about that. I'm a Lakers fan, but my Derek Fisher love is not about that -- it's more about my admiration for his focus, and also for the things he said when asked about it, and also the big joy on his face as he discovered new resources within himself. I just really enjoy him -- unlike some other Lakers, who shall remain nameless.

Did I ever tell you about how Shaquille saved me from a nasty scrape?

[Dot]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

Dot, so if they called it Skinny Milk instead of Low-Fat Milk, do you think people would be more successful? You might be right. Would be an interesting study.

Angela, whether I have the goal of "losing weight" or "being healthy" -- what ultimately determines my success will be my exercise habits and what I eat, not what words I use to describe the process. If you don't believe me, then just look at all the overwhelming success people have in their quest to be healthy!

However, it is true that some words are better motivators than others, I would agree...

You guys and your semantics, I swear, lol (And I say this as someone who usually consciously thinks and speaks positively anyway). Ya know, one time I beat a friend in basketball while repeating "you're gonna beat me, I'm going to lose, I'm missing this shot, etc." The words had no effect on me because my actions were shooting the ball successfully -- and that's what mattered.

Well, what kind of milk would you imagine most heathy people buy, drink, and use? They call it WHOLE milk. WHOLE people are attracted to WHOLE milk, because it simply tastes and feels better - 'cause it real milk. In the last whatever amount of years since they started feeding corn to cows and shooting them up with drugs, even healthy (more whole) people now buy, use and are attracted to "Organic Whole Milk." 'Cause it's now even more "whole" than regular whole milk - which has become CRAP/DRUG/BITTER/DOO-DOO/POOP Whole Milk. : )

Oh, in the case of the words you said to yourself during the game, it doesn't matter if you don't believe them. Are you guys about the same level, or are you considerably better at basketball. I play guitar pretty well, and I could chant "I suck at guitar" all long, and I'd still be pretty good. And, actually, I might even have a realization by thinking and saying that - that would make me even better.

Words are HUGELY powerful to us - especially if they set off some kind of emotion in us. In terms of our bodies - most of us don't like the word FAT - not even fat people. And as Angela said, fat become don't become healthy by thinking about and working towards the goal of being not fat. That's like saying I want to not be - whatever - I don't wanna be a carrot - I don't wanna be sick - I don't wanna be broke. Doesn't help me or anyone to see what I DO want to BE. But with something like.. I wanna be a proud, successful, healthy, sexy, rich, gay Puerto Rican fashion designer. OK, now we're talkin'! Because we all - including the person who wants to become a proud, successful, healthy, sexy, rich, gay Puerto Rican fashion designer - has a fairly good idea, and the ability to vividly visual and SEE a proud, successful, healthy, sexy, rich, gay Puerto Rican fashion designer in our minds. And a person who focuses and concentrates on being a proud, successful, healthy, sexy, rich, gay Puerto Rican fashion designer is going to ATTRACT all the things, people, experiences, and opportunities - and - as long as they keep at it and don't give up along the way --- poof, they become a proud, successful, healthy, sexy, rich, gay Puerto Rican fashion designer.

Now, if that same person; the one who is now the proud, successful, healthy, sexy, rich, gay Puerto Rican fashion designer---- had, instead started out with a list of qualities along the lines of... well, I don't wanna be fat, and I don't wanna be broke, and I'm having a hard time excepting the fact that I'm gay - but I'll just try and hide it from all the truckers I work with - even though I really don't want to be a trucker, and I'm really tired all the time. So what they're really thinking is I want to be a not-fat, not-broke, closeted gay who doesn't work driving a truck or be around truckers. See, it tells the individual - and others - including the universe - absolutely NOTHING about what they actually do want or who they want to be. All it tells us is what they DON't want to be. And even worse -- since the only descriptors - or even hints - we are being given, or that the person is even giving to themselves are not-fat, not-broke, closeted gay, not driving trucks and not being around truckers... guess what? They will continue to attract EXACTLY the very things, people, and experiences they do not want, and remain a fat, broke, closeted gay, truck driver. And they'll remain that way until the pain and agony of living such a crap life either sends them over the edge of dispair - or, they wake up one day and really really begin exploring what they WANT in their lives. Then they are ready to finally realize thir true potential - because they're free to become themselves. And, well, some people are there are destined to become proud, successful, healthy, sexy, rich, gay Puerto Rican fashion designers. And thank god for that!