The pillars of self-discipline

[jedale]

I have a somewhat different take on self-discipline, at least from the perspective of my own personal experiences; having been so lacking in self-discipline. Perhaps the fact that I am Attention Deficit Disorder might have something to do with it.

From my experience, trying to develop self-discipline the way Steve recommends in his articles makes me think of a thick, solid concrete wall.

One one side of the wall, there is the undisciplined and unproductive "me" ... along with all the attributes that I wish I didn't have.

On the other side of that wall is the ideal version of "me - a fleeting pipe dream, a mirage of what I wish I could be.

Now .... all I have to do is bash my skull against the wall, until one of two things happen: Either your skull breaks, or the wall breaks. When enough blood, sweat and tears have been shed, maybe ... just maybe ... I might be like the person on the other side of the wall.

Of course, as the self-discipline series suggests ... don't beat yourself up, and try to tackle that wall in "bite size" chunks.

So now, instead of bashing that wall with great gusto, I bash my skull in smaller and repetitive motions, so that I can stay in the fight longer. The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single 'head-butt', I tell myself

OK ... so my skull is not splintering or cracking ... but the constant and repetitive butting against the brick wall that separates the "old" me from the new "me" is a nasty wall .... and my head is bleeding.

Eventually, the time drags on and I have blood running down my forehead. I am tired of being the person on the wrong side of the wall, but at the same time, I am also tired of being exhausted, bloodied and disappointed.

Be patient .... have faith .... keep trying, I am told. Yet, if I don't succeed, I will be told that it is because I did NOT have perseverance, faith, discipline.

But I am TRYING to develop perseverance, faith and self-discipline. The more I try and fail, the less of these ingredients I have. Thus, this becomes a vicious cycle that wears for the worse with each passing turn. Ultimately, you need to be DISCIPLINED, FAITHFUL and PERSEVERING before you can develop anything.

The theory, as proposed by Steve, is that even the little bit of self-discipline already in existence can help you develop more.

I am NOT finding this to be the case. I am finding that my qualities and my efforts are so weak and feeble that I emotionally, mentally and physically burn out very quickly - to the degree that I need to sleep a whole day just to recover. My well-intentioned efforts are persistent and determined, but nonetheless weak from having fought a fearsome foe in my mind almost every conscious moment.

So how do I solve this riddle? How to I keep from mental and emotional exhaustion will chipping away at this formidable enemy?

[Mayo]

Do the 30 day trial period!

Although i started it yesterday, i had banished my self from watching TV. Now the funny thing is that i found my self non-consciously reaching for the remote controller. O.K. it's only the second day, but guess what: it works! I have no more the urge to watch TV when not working! Now what i have done is that i had put a banner on my PC desktop that says simple: NO TV UNTIL 19.2.2007

You can make such banner to fit your screen with paintbrush or any other image editing software. My next mission after TV is to exercise regularly, and also keep persistent at early rising program so i can later on try the polyphasic sleep pattern that i tried before but failed miserably in the form of chronically oversleeping.

[Andrew Brunelle]

One exercise I tried regarding self-discipline was no TV for a couple of months. But in a house where there is usually a TV on for the last five hours of the night, it was not easy to ignore it, especially when my favorite televiwion show, South Park, had all-new episodes. We did not own a DVR at the time, so I could not record them and watch them after the trial, so I ended up giving in to that one particular show. Once a week. So, for two to three months, I watched no TV except maybe two hours a month, but the funny thing was that after the new season ended, I sort of stopped all-together.

However, now that I'm getting kind of bored, I often stick in one of my DVDs of Seinfeld or watch a movie if I just want to be entertained for awhile. It's not so much that I'm not disciplined, I could just as easily not watch it, but it's good sometimes to take it easy, slip a little.

Self-discipline takes quite a bit of time to master. Sometimes, I don't even think about it at all. I just do what I feel. It's something different every day. Sure, it's not structured, but I am very aversive to structure as it limits you in so many ways. So, it helps to be disciplined in what you want to do, but if you don't want to do it, then you're wasting your time trying to become disciplined at it.

[InfamousEric]

Hello Jedale...

I read your post, and saw several things that intrigued me, the first was what seem to me to be a focus on defeat...

You wrote that you are "SO LACKING" in self discipline, that you are undisciplined/unproductive...


Please, please, please change your focus from the overall feeling of defeat, to an understanding that this is nothing more than a challenge to overcome. I'm positive that all your life you have been overcoming challenges, you are an amazing organism, you have th ability to overcome any challenge...

Focus on accomplishment, do something today, it doesn't matter what it is, just accomplish something that flies in the face of the defeat you feel.

Then CELEBRATE the victory of that accomplishment... do it again tommorrow, do it everyday, just make the accomplishment a little bigger each day, and CELEBRATE IT !!!

Eventually you will have conditioned yourself for accomplishment, it's this conditioning that is self-discipline. It will become habitual.

If you fall back sometime, thats OK, it's not about never making mistakes, it's about gradual self-improvement. You are building yourself to be your vision of yourself, visualize something great, become something great.

The ideal version of you is not a pipe dream, it is a reality. You have only to find it. Think of it like digging for gold, the gold is there, you just gotta get rid of the dirt that surrounds it.

The journey of a thousand miles, begins with a single victorious step (head butts give me a head ache).

The picture you gave of beating your head against the wall, also bothered me. This tells me you think that the process should be painful, it doesn't have to be.

There are always more ways than one to obtain a desired result.

Next is Failure...

There is no such thing, failure is a label we put on ourselves when we give up. To try and suffer a setback, is not failure.

[Mayo]

Better yet, imagine that you are struggling for your own bare life. Wold you rather give up and end up in the nothingness .... OR would you keep up and transform your self into something stronger, better and wiser.

Yes life is a though wall, but why don't you instead of your skull just use hydraulic leverage of your mind to destroy that obstacle without even touching it with your body! (^_^)

It takes sweat and tears, but boy oh boy when you get there it will be the most precious experience you will have in your life, everything can be defeated even malign tumor, let alone few measly problems.

[Reyv]

I was going to post something longer, but I wound up spending too much time on it, so I stopped. Here's the short version instead:

- Take it easy with the whole self-discipline thing. I don't think banging your head on a wall (metaphorically speaking) is exactly what Steve had in mind.
- Try getting into the LoA. Watch The Secret. Read Abraham's Ask and it is Given. It's a lot easier to get things done when you're in a positive emotional state. It may take some time and effort to get good at guiding your thoughts, but the practical experience of knowing how to create the emotions you want is invaluable.

[jedale]

Thank you to all of you!

Great responses with some valuable points made

I am sorry if I came across as negative or self-defeating ... this was actually not the intention. Unfortunately the message I was trying to get across has been missed.

I was trying to create an analogy that shows the challenges of life in it's honest and unabashed form, where you must take the first crucial step to solving them - and that is to acknowledge that they are there. (While staying objective, and WITHOUT being self-defeating).

P.S. Reyv: I already own 'The Greatest Secret", written by Darrell Daybre, upon which the DVD movie "The Secret" is based upon.

Darrell's book gives you a broad and painfully obvious step-by-step formula for manifesting success, in the same clichéd fashion that centuries of previous books have done. (Step 1. Purchase car kit .... Step 2. Build car).

I think that many masters, teachers and guides are so unified with their knowledge that they don't recognized the key elements that make them different. As a result, they don't articulate these key methods, ingredients, transitional states, techniques that move you from one place of being to the next.

Let me give you a case in point example:

Mayo used an analogy of someone fighting for their life to become something:

"Would you rather give up and end up in the nothingness .... OR would you keep up and transform your self into something stronger, better and wiser."

This is a VALUABLE and POWERFUL technique to use for motivation, but let me explain why this technique, as solid and as powerful as it is ... still fails 95% of the time to transform people. Let's dissect it closely:

1. An assumption gets made that everyone in a life (or victory) or death (defeat) situation WILL fight for the former. This is sadly not true. The fact is that many truly struggling people DO NOT SEE an alternative situation enough to want to fight for it, and this is how they got into their predicament in the first place.

Every human being has an innate instinct for self-preservation. NO ONE should have to "consciously" choose to survive, whether it be emotionally, spiritually, or physically. If someone has to consciously "choose" to want to survive, against a deeper will to want to give up, something is seriously wrong.

2. Following with the same analogy, another unfortunate assumption that gets made about an individual in a death or life struggle is that the individual KNOWS what the difference between something-ness and nothing-ness is. In other words, it is assumed that the struggling person
can actually "see" a grand vision, or an alternative scenario to where they are at present, and one in which they can truly believe.

Again, this is an assumption. The fact is .... YOUR grandest vision of yourself is not the same as SOMEONE ELSE'S grandest vision of YOU. The truth is that many people GIVE UP and "LET GO" of their lives in a struggle because they DO-NOT-KNOW what their grandest vision is - for them. In their darkest moments ... when they are engulfed in the metaphorical murky waters of depression and defeat, THEY CANNOT SEE ANYTHING ELSE other than the murky waters that surround them ... In the moment of NOW. Perhaps they can conjure fleeting images of materialistic placebos such as winning the lottery, or being a successful spouse, being financially free, or being successful in their careers. Yet, to the despairing soul who sees only murky waters and war clouds, all of these wistful images are nothing more than pipe dreams.

They cannot "see" what is spiritual in nature, such as self-discipline. They can only hope for the physical creature comforts such as wealth, because their minds "know" what these things are. Therein lies another important distinction.

They cannot "think positively", because they do not know what "positive" is. They have "head knowledge" about positivity, goal-setting, vision, etc ... but they do not "OWN" this knowledge within themselves. They see it as being something rather nice .... but still ruefully distant from where they are. They try to set goals for themselves, but they give up quickly when they encounter obstacles, because there is no vision to drive them.

Indeed, they WILL see transformation as a PAINFUL process, like head-butting a wall.

For example, What is the point of giving up T.V. if you are not going to use that time to build on your GRAND VISION? otherwise, you simply create a black hole of deprivation, and this is what causes people to become ADDICTS. When you deprive yourself of the activity that you use as a distraction from your empty life, you feel deprived. When you indulge in your distraction, you feel guilty and empty. This "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation is what I was trying to demonstrate in my "bashing skull against a concrete wall" analogy.

REMEMBER ... a distinction needs to be made between SOMEONE ELSE'S vision for you and YOUR vision for you. The fact of the matter is ... if you KNEW what your "VISION" for you really was ... your CHOICE to FIGHT ON in the face of all adversity would be AUTOMATIC. You would never need to consciously "think" about it. Nor would you consciously need to manifest "Will power", or "discipline". These things would come naturally.

Think of Lance Armstrong struggling up that steep hill on his bike ... his muscles are tearing and burning. His body is exhausted. Yet ... some invisible force pulls him up that hill. He did not need to read a self-help book that TOLD him that he should "fight on" in the face of adversity. He decided naturally and automatically. His PAIN actually TRANSFORMED ITSELF into PLEASURE OF "BEING". Paradoxically, it would have been MORE difficult for him to NOT "fight on".

Lance Armstrong is NOT a world champion cyclist because he has more DISCIPLINE or more WILLPOWER than all the other cyclists, or because he "fought against" his pain. He is a world champion because he WORKED WITH the laws of energy ... and he TRANSFORMED his PAIN ... in context of a grander vision of himself that was so natural to him; that to "fight on" SEEMED the "natural" thing to do. To everyone else around him, his "courage", "determination", "perseverance", "discipline" was CAUSATIVE. To him, they were SYMPTOMATIC. Those qualities were natural outcomes - they were "tools" that could help him shape the next grandest vision of himself. He NEVER had to make a "transition" from being a person WITHOUT "Self-Discipline" to being a person WITH "Self-Discipline". See the difference?

3. Elaborating on point 2, VISION has got absolutely NOTHING to do with "will power". Here is a further assumption made by the analogy of someone fighting for themselves. People assume that conscious "will power" and "discipline" are needed to be truly successful. While it is true that successful people do indeed possess these ingredients, I would like to propose that these qualities, or ingredients, are symptomatic and not causative. Once the Vision is in place, everything flows and "snaps" into place. Without the clear vision, you cannot compensate for this by trying to develop more "Discipline" or more "Will power". This is putting the cart before the horse.

Now this I believe is the key. The key is to know how to find a clear vision for yourself with SCIENTIFIC ACCURACY and ONE HUNDRED PERCENT CERTAINTY. To my awareness, no such tool, teaching, or device exists. The process of discovering one's life purpose is touch and go, with limited and unpredictable results.

I have spent many years trying to understand why some people find their life's purposes almost instantaneously, while others seem to wander aimlessly for many decades.

Could it be that some people were MEANT to wander aimlessly through life, without purpose? could this be the decree of the natural universe, as has been subtly indicated by Eric Pepin's book "The Handbook of the Navigator"?

Could it be that in order to preserve the natural order of things, that there must be a vast majority of wanderers, and a minuscule minority of visionaries, so that some kind of contrast may exist between the two groups, in order so that there may be devices of variety and comparison?

I have observed, for example, people who have filled entire journals of written text in an attempt to find their life's purpose and GRAND VISION, using techniques very similar to what Steve suggests. My hypothesis is that if these people cannot "SEE" their vision to begin with, than all the journaling in the world will not help them. When you write, you write what is within you. If that Vision is not within you then writing it out TENS OF THOUSANDS OF TIMES will not help you.

So here is the great chasm. This is the riddle that I am trying to solve.

Are we predestined?

Is "Free Will" another of mankind's grandest delusions?

Can VISION really be created or found, if it is not already present?

Jason

[Jeremy Bennett]

Dear Jason,
Great questions; here are some thoughts:

"Indeed, they WILL see transformation as a PAINFUL process, like head-butting a wall."

- ... Sufferring in necessary... until one realizes that suffering is no longer necessary" ( a buddhist saying, I think)

Re: Endless wandering, and predestination -

First of all: Anything is possible. I don't think that "fixed" predestination (that pre-disposes with human choice) is the case.

Also, re: growth (for whereever someone is at) - for me it comes down to
"What is the lesson that I need to learn - right _now_?" - the answer will
vary for everyone, and paradoxically, cut through all the mental chatter - to get to the heart of what's important.. right now.

Good luck!

Jeremy

[Mayo]

From wikipedia:

"Lance Armstrong (born Lance Edward Gunderson on September 18, 1971 in Plano, Texas) is a retired American professional road racing cyclist. He attended Clark High School while he lived in Plano. He won the Tour de France, professional cycling's most prestigious race, a record seven consecutive times from 1999 to 2005. In doing so, he beat the previous record of five consecutive wins, held by Miguel Indurain and five non consecutive wins shared by Bernard Hinault, Eddy Merckx and Jacques Anquetil. This feat was accomplished several years after brain and testicular surgery, and extensive chemotherapy in 1996, to treat testicular cancer that had metastasized to his brain and lungs."

Daily Celebrations ~ Lance Armstrong, Cancer Survivor ~July 29 ~ Ideas to motivate, educate, and inspire

So Jayson, your stoic philosophizing is good starter point, yes it's about YOU'r personal standpoint, you are not in my pants nor am i in your pants, everyone has it's own philosophy of winning your own self (that is the basis of Yoga and Zen and many other meditative techniques but not limited to any of this in fact you can acquire the "kundalini" without even believing in higher force), the TRANS-CENDENCE,

Wikipedia:
"In everyday language, "transcendence" means "going beyond", and "self-transcendence" means going beyond a prior form or state of oneself. Mystical experience is thought of as a particularly advanced state of self-transcendence, in which the sense of a separate self is abandoned."

You can do right things, you can do wrong things but on the final point you will do good thing, i don't know if this applies to single life span because some forms of spirit that manifest in human form are not yet ready to evolve, in fact many spiritualist argue that we are here on earth only to evolve and enrich the higher consciousness when we return to continuum, and even in the afterlife you have wild life that is not capable of evolving higher, i think that Steve and Erin can tell you more, only Steve doesn't want to talk about it in public because many would take his words as a sham... i don't also believe it until i actually see the astral world, if i ever attain that capability in current life..

The fact is you will die off if you don't grow, you will end up a miserable old man that will be bitter on the entire world, frail and very sick.

Be sure to check tis little article:
6abc.com: 75-year-old Man Lifts Plane
this:
Lifting up the World with a Oneness-Heart
and something i just discovered today and start exploring like Steve's pearls:
Sri Chinmoy Library

For example my material game is to achieve enough money for buying a 300ft megeayacht, a private 400 acre Caribbean island, big 500MM€ a year profit from my companies, .... ,... , ...
^This sounds ridiculous, right??!! From your stand of point it is, from mine it's just a GAME, nothing else, it is not that i strive to get through there, it is that i strive to go through the PROCESS! Will i achieve it, probably not! But will it be worth it? Certainly YES! If i got to this goal at even 1/10000000000000000 part of it i will accomplish something, the money i gain will be a LEVERAGE to not have to think about it any more and put it on AUTO-PILOT. My only point from there will be to get to the other, higher game, that of TRANS-CENDANCE. After many earthling soul searching life cycles maybe i will understand after all what life really means or maybe i wont, it all depends how i play the game.
So PLAY THE GAME!

[jedale]

Mayo,

Thanks for your reply, and also for the weblinks.

The Lance Armstrong info you gave was very interesting, and I think it just reinforces a point that has already been made, and that is how pain and hardship get's overcome in the light of a higher purpose. My responses are indented below and are in blue font ...

Originally Posted by Mayo

From wikipedia:

"Lance Armstrong (born Lance Edward Gunderson on September 18, 1971 in Plano, Texas) is a retired American professional road racing cyclist. He attended Clark High School while he lived in Plano. He won the Tour de France, professional cycling's most prestigious race, a record seven consecutive times from 1999 to 2005. In doing so, he beat the previous record of five consecutive wins, held by Miguel Indurain and five non consecutive wins shared by Bernard Hinault, Eddy Merckx and Jacques Anquetil. This feat was accomplished several years after brain and testicular surgery, and extensive chemotherapy in 1996, to treat testicular cancer that had metastasized to his brain and lungs."

Daily Celebrations ~ Lance Armstrong, Cancer Survivor ~July 29 ~ Ideas to motivate, educate, and inspire

So Jayson, your stoic philosophizing is good starter point, yes it's about YOU'r personal standpoint, you are not in my pants nor am i in your pants, everyone has it's own philosophy of winning your own self (that is the basis of Yoga and Zen and many other meditative techniques but not limited to any of this in fact you can acquire the "kundalini" without even believing in higher force), the TRANS-CENDENCE,

Not to be picky, but I don't think your use of the word "stoic" is fair. A stoic person is a person who endures pain and hardship without showing their feelings. That description does not fit me at all. I am not really "philosophizing" either. I am making personal observastions based on what I have experienced, and I am asking questions. At no point did I attempt to belabour my views or force them on others. I am just presenting an alternative view. .

Wikipedia:
"In everyday language, "transcendence" means "going beyond", and "self-transcendence" means going beyond a prior form or state of oneself. Mystical experience is thought of as a particularly advanced state of self-transcendence, in which the sense of a separate self is abandoned."

You can do right things, you can do wrong things but on the final point you will do good thing, i don't know if this applies to single life span because some forms of spirit that manifest in human form are not yet ready to evolve, in fact many spiritualist argue that we are here on earth only to evolve and enrich the higher consciousness when we return to continuum, and even in the afterlife you have wild life that is not capable of evolving higher, i think that Steve and Erin can tell you more, only Steve doesn't want to talk about it in public because many would take his words as a sham... i don't also believe it until i actually see the astral world, if i ever attain that capability in current life..

The fact is you will die off if you don't grow, you will end up a miserable old man that will be bitter on the entire world, frail and very sick.

There are viewpoints out there that are different to yours. Some believe that growth is inevitable, and that you could not stop the process if you tried. However, you can make the process more "easy" or more "difficult" by your choices. As far as "right" and "wrong" is concerned ... humans are changing the definitions of those two words all of the time ...

Be sure to check tis little article:
6abc.com: 75-year-old Man Lifts Plane

An interesting article, I must say. So how many planes can you lift? and for the poor folks out there who can barely lift their gym bags, is this because they are weak of heart and spiritually inept?

this:
Lifting up the World with a Oneness-Heart
and something i just discovered today and start exploring like Steve's pearls:
Sri Chinmoy Library

For example my material game is to achieve enough money for buying a 300ft megeayacht, a private 400 acre Caribbean island, big 500MM€ a year profit from my companies, .... ,... , ...
^This sounds ridiculous, right??!! From your stand of point it is, Don't make assumptions, Mayo. I DO NOT think your idea is "ridiculous". How can you say something like that? I think your dream is SUPERB. GO FOR IT!! from mine it's just a GAME, nothing else, it is not that i strive to get through there, it is that i strive to go through the PROCESS! Will i achieve it, probably not! But will it be worth it? Certainly YES! If i got to this goal at even 1/10000000000000000 part of it i will accomplish something, the money i gain will be a LEVERAGE to not have to think about it any more and put it on AUTO-PILOT. My only point from there will be to get to the other, higher game, that of TRANS-CENDANCE. After many earthling soul searching life cycles maybe i will understand after all what life really means or maybe i wont, it all depends how i play the game.
So PLAY THE GAME!

I am 29 years old. I have been "PLAYING THE GAME" for all 29 years.