Positive reenforcement to eliminate procrastination?

[pianoperformer]

So I'm starting to realize that I think my biggest problem with motivation for practice is that I associate it with pain. I mean I have to do so much of it, and actual rewards with it are kind of rare. Sometimes you have to work on a section for days, weeks, or even months to perfect it.

It's usually not as bad as I make it out to be in my head, once I actually start, but startin gis the trick.

Like yesterday, I procrastinated until 6:00 to practice. Once I did though, I practiced for two hours, with a half an hour break in between.

I'm determined to conquer this problem before the semester starts in like three months. I know if I can get over this resistance, I can practice a lot more without so much procrastination.

Someone recently mentioned that they love practicing and look forward to it. First I wondered whether they were actually practicing correctly, but then I thought, what if I changed my association with it?

In positive reenforcement, there is a reward for doing some sort of task, as opposed to negative reenforcement, where you are punished for not doing the task.

Right now, I think it is mostly negative, or at least it used to be. I would feel guilt for not doing enough.

I wonder if it's possible to change that around to be positive instead of negative? Maybe have some kind of reward for completing so much practice.

That was how I was raised. I got approval for getting good grades, maybe even got to go out to dinner, or got $20 or something. On the contrary, my aunt uses negative reenforcement with my cousin, and she gets grounded if she gets C's or below, but nothing for getting A's.

I was a very different student than she is. I got straight A's (with the exception of two B's in 5th grade) up until maybe 7th or 8th grade, when some other events in life took my focus away from school a bit.

My cousin, on the other hand, regularly gets B's and C's. She is failing at least one class right now, and she is in 6th grade.

So I personally think positive reenforcement is a much more powerful motivator than negative.

I might try it, but not sure what kind of rewards to use yet.

But do you think this method seems sound? I'm open to other suggestions.

For the record, I love playing the piano. I especially love performing in front of an audience. But practicing just is not enjoyable. I'm continually focusing on the weak parts of my pieces, so it can be discouraging at times. However, it's never nearly as bad as I expect, once I get started, and an hour can pass very quickly without me noticing.

So I want to change it from something I associate with a negative feeling, to be associated with a positive.

[Deergirl]

Maybe you could start with one of those belief boards Steve wrote about? Maybe that would already get you one step in the right direction.

[pianoperformer]

Originally Posted by Deergirl

Maybe you could start with one of those belief boards Steve wrote about? Maybe that would already get you one step in the right direction.

That sounds like a good idea, but I'm blind so wouldn't be able to read something like that.

[Franciz]

I think pain is a great motivator. I use it all the time. If you take a look at my 30 day/weird challenges they are all based on pain.

Here's a list of them: (Some of them are not recorded on this forum)
-Media fasting (I hated myself for wasting my life watching youtube and going on facebook. I felt like the biggest loser.)
-Gentleman (I recently finished a 30 day gentleman challenge. This the second time that I did this challenge, but my reason for starting this challenge again was because I felt so bad about this one incident. I've mistreated a girl. I'll leave it at that.)
-No Complaining (I hated myself for complaining so much. I was so pissed off at myself because I was such a sissy. I'm a man for crying out loud!)
-Exercise Challenge (I hated myself for being such a lazy ass)
-Waking up at 7 and 6 (I was angry towards myself for being a bum. I don't want to be a bum)
-Concentration Camp Challenge (I'm in pain of being so negative towards myself. My negativity pissed me off. Sometimes, being to negative is depressing and this is one of the ways I thought of to counter it)
-Night Club Promoter (The feeling of loneliness drove me to be a promoter. I was so bad with girls. I hated it!)
-Master Cleanse (I hated myself for not having discipline. I hated the salt water flush in the mornings too. I threw up everytime I drank a litre of sea salt water.)

Anyways, my point is that pain can be a great motivator if you use it wisely. In your case, why not try performing right now in front of a bunch of talented people. Look at their reactions. If they laughed at you because you did a horrible job, try taking it seriously. Try to remember the feeling of emberassment, hatred, and other foul emotions. Promise yourself that you don't want to feel like that again. I think an effective way of looking at pain is instead of feeling bad about not being able to practice (dancing, in my case), (I would) feel bad about feeling bad for not being able to practice (dance). And I'm talking about a burning hot hatred that could melt the polar ice caps. And yes, I'm talking about global warming. [I hate it when I go off topic. I need to improve on this one.]

Well, thats my opinion about pain.

Nevertheless, I'm interested on how your going to be using positive reinforcement to fueling your practice sessions. Can you describe in detail on how your going be doing that?

-Franciz

[pianoperformer]

Franciz,

Thank you. I think the problem is though that I don't work well with pain. Again I'm trying to change the mental association with practice from negative to positive, so that I don't procrastinate so much. I think pain would only make it worse.

Further, I know that I just work better in a positive environment than a negative. It's been that way all my life.

Also, the problem with your proposed solution is that they would think I am very good. I love performing, and have played in front of many people. I'm just not satisfied with where I am yet, because the piece could use a lot of improvement.

I would rate the piece right now at about a 7 or 8, but others would rate it much higher, and have said so. I'm just very critical and I know what needs improving.

I have played this piece in front of people before, in fact. I was almost going to play it for some other competition at college, but it was too long, and the event was canceled.

I don't know how I'm going to change my association, or have enough of a mental shift to look forward to practice. My friend I told about this thinks it is possible, and we discussed it a bit last night.

I might try the reward method, but I don't know yet. I'll report back to this thread periodically if anyone is interested.

[Orecle]

If you get a chance, read the book 'Mastery' by George Leonard. I think you should just surrender to practice. Instead of studying 1 - 2 hrs, every other ...., surrender to practicing every spare chance you get. Seek to become the best piano player you can. All the best musicians, scientist threw 16 hr days at their craft, without thought. To them their was not enough hours in the day.

So my advice, is take a breath, and surrender to mastering piano and study every chance you get. The problem with people who get excellent grades semi-easy, is they dont know what it is like to throw hours at something they want to master. This might not be you.

So instead of, going through the burden of psyching yourself up, if you seek the become the best piano player you can, you will struggle to find enough hours. Find someone much better than you as a role model. Say in your mind, you will be as great by date........, then get there as fast as you can. Audition for a philarmonic orchestra or a musical orchestra or theatre or somewhere where your skills can be put to the test, if you are not good enough then thats incentive to practice.

I think positive reinforcement is excellent, but unlike your childhood, you have to now provide the reward, even if it is just satisfaction of daily improvement.

[pianoperformer]

Originally Posted by Orecle

If you get a chance, read the book 'Mastery' by George Leonard. I think you should just surrender to practice. Instead of studying 1 - 2 hrs, every other ...., surrender to practicing every spare chance you get. Seek to become the best piano player you can. All the best musicians, scientist threw 16 hr days at their craft, without thought. To them their was not enough hours in the day.

So my advice, is take a breath, and surrender to mastering piano and study every chance you get. The problem with people who get excellent grades semi-easy, is they dont know what it is like to throw hours at something they want to master. This might not be you.

So instead of, going through the burden of psyching yourself up, if you seek the become the best piano player you can, you will struggle to find enough hours. Find someone much better than you as a role model. Say in your mind, you will be as great by date........, then get there as fast as you can. Audition for a philarmonic orchestra or a musical orchestra or theatre or somewhere where your skills can be put to the test, if you are not good enough then thats incentive to practice.

I think positive reinforcement is excellent, but unlike your childhood, you have to now provide the reward, even if it is just satisfaction of daily improvement.

Thank you very much.

Can you clarify what you mean by "surrender to practice"?

What you are saying really makes sense though.

Oh and you're right that I don't know what it's like to throw hours into something. I'm really trying to change that though.

[pianoperformer]

I just wanted to post a small update.

The other day, Angela offered to create a kind of audio belief board for me, with just the beliefs I want to install, so to speak. I think it uses binaural beats, too, and has some interesting music.

Among the beliefs were that I am a masterful concert pianist, and a winning competitor (I am going to win that piano concerto competition). I figured that with those beliefs, the practicing would take care of itself. I didn't want to set a certain time limit, in case more or less would be more effective.

Anyway, I made the commitment to myself to listen to it every day. It's been maybe three days now.

I've been noticing more of an urge to practice. It is gradual so far, but yesterday I realized I was actually starting to enjoy it. I was practicing the Mendelssohn prelude I'm working on, and it was just so beautiful and I loved it.

I think it's the beginning of an upward slope for me in practicing and progress.

The first day, on Sunday, that I listened to it, my piano teacher from college called seconds after it ended, assigning my pieces to learn over the summer. That was very exciting, and motivated me. I always love working on new pieces.

My pieces include the Minstrels prelude (Preludes Book 1, No. 12) by Debussy, and the 1st movement of the Italian Concerto by Bach. I really like both pieces, from what I've heard so far, but the first is a lot more fun, so that's what I began with.

Oh and Orecle, I've been using that phrase when thinking about it, that I'm surrendering to practice.

I still have a way to go yet, but feel rather positive about it right now, so wanted to update this thread about it.

Brandon

[Orecle]

Hi pianoperformer

What I mean by surrender to practice is, accept the fact that to be as good as you know you can, you cannot put hours on the amount of hours you should practice. You just practice until...... infinity
Make it an automatic thing. If you have a keyboard/piano in your house, play literally every time you have free time. But instead of the motivation being a specific performance, do it for the sake of self improvement, do it for the love of music. Just practice, dont think about it, dont even try to find a super motivational reason. Just sit at your keyboard and surrender to practice. Enjoy it.

The people that are world class, at anything..... cooking, science, sports, engineering all through 12 - 16 hr days at their interest of choice. There is only 1 way you can put in that much hours to practice and not want to jump off a cliff. That is surrender to the fact that you are going to have to spend 99% of time in practice mode, if you want to be good at anything

From pop and rock concerts to orchestras, theatre performances for a 2hr show, mths of preparation are continually undertaken.

As Tony Robbins says "You eiether getting better, or worse" Just to stay the same reqiures practice.

Bruce Lee
All the people who knew him said, he would practice Martial Arts any time, in the kitchen, while watching TV, he practiced for the love of his craft. He wanted to see how far he could take it, the same as Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Mozart, Beethoven, Tiger Woods (he even practices 6am, the morning after he wins major tournaments), Kasparov they all practice endlessly

All the greats were eiether lucky to have parents who made them practiceholics by the age of 3, or at some point they figured to be the greatest they would have to practice more than anyone else.......

so they just surrendered to the fact and put one foot infront of the other....... 12 - 16hrs daily, 6 -7 days wkly, for years.......

Tonight, just sit at the keys and play and play and play some more

Then tomorrow do the same

And the next day

week

month

year

decade

you get the picture

[pianoperformer]

Originally Posted by Orecle

Hi pianoperformer

What I mean by surrender to practice is, accept the fact that to be as good as you know you can, you cannot put hours on the amount of hours you should practice. You just practice until...... infinity
Make it an automatic thing. If you have a keyboard/piano in your house, play literally every time you have free time. But instead of the motivation being a specific performance, do it for the sake of self improvement, do it for the love of music. Just practice, dont think about it, dont even try to find a super motivational reason. Just sit at your keyboard and surrender to practice. Enjoy it.

The people that are world class, at anything..... cooking, science, sports, engineering all through 12 - 16 hr days at their interest of choice. There is only 1 way you can put in that much hours to practice and not want to jump off a cliff. That is surrender to the fact that you are going to have to spend 99% of time in practice mode, if you want to be good at anything

From pop and rock concerts to orchestras, theatre performances for a 2hr show, mths of preparation are continually undertaken.

As Tony Robbins says "You eiether getting better, or worse" Just to stay the same reqiures practice.

Bruce Lee
All the people who knew him said, he would practice Martial Arts any time, in the kitchen, while watching TV, he practiced for the love of his craft. He wanted to see how far he could take it, the same as Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Mozart, Beethoven, Tiger Woods (he even practices 6am, the morning after he wins major tournaments), Kasparov they all practice endlessly

All the greats were eiether lucky to have parents who made them practiceholics by the age of 3, or at some point they figured to be the greatest they would have to practice more than anyone else.......

so they just surrendered to the fact and put one foot infront of the other....... 12 - 16hrs daily, 6 -7 days wkly, for years.......

Tonight, just sit at the keys and play and play and play some more

Then tomorrow do the same

And the next day

week

month

year

decade

you get the picture

Thank you. That makes a lot of sense, and I will do that.

[pianoperformer]

Orecle,

Wanted to ask, well what about when I go back to college? Obviously I can't spend as much time since I'll have classes and studying to do. Though I have to practice a lot since that's what I'm there for.

Should I still just fit it in whenever? I don't think I can do as much as you are saying I should be doing.

[Rossoneri]

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

Orecle,

Wanted to ask, well what about when I go back to college? Obviously I can't spend as much time since I'll have classes and studying to do. Though I have to practice a lot since that's what I'm there for.

Should I still just fit it in whenever? I don't think I can do as much as you are saying I should be doing.

Get the book now habit by Neil Fiore it would help you tremendously...
The books helps you understand why you procrastinate and offers a great solution:You start with a procrastination log, you learn how to talk positively to yourself, learn baout guilt-free play, learn about the reverse calendar (major thing for me) and other stuff.
It helped me tremendously

[Orecle]

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

Orecle,

Wanted to ask, well what about when I go back to college? Obviously I can't spend as much time since I'll have classes and studying to do. Though I have to practice a lot since that's what I'm there for.

Should I still just fit it in whenever? I don't think I can do as much as you are saying I should be doing.

Practice anytime you have free time. I suspect you can find at least 1 hr + daily, but the key is nit to force it. Even if you wake up 1 hr early to play, surrender to the routine and the rest will fall in place. Listen to pieces you would like to play on an ipod. Make your environment,a musical one. look into getting into an orchestra or a theatre production where yu can get to play and meet other piano players

[pianoperformer]

Originally Posted by Orecle

Practice anytime you have free time. I suspect you can find at least 1 hr + daily, but the key is nit to force it. Even if you wake up 1 hr early to play, surrender to the routine and the rest will fall in place. Listen to pieces you would like to play on an ipod. Make your environment,a musical one. look into getting into an orchestra or a theatre production where yu can get to play and meet other piano players

Thanks, that helps. Well considering I'm a music major, i should always have at least 3-5 hours a day (3 is minimum). The problem for me is always trying to see how to balance everything; practicing/studying/socializing/relaxing, pretty much in that descending order of priority. Oh, and, um, blogging in there somewhere. I never seem to have time for that when school starts lol.

I always try to come up with a structure for myself, of studying at this time, practicing at this time, and socializing at this time...but that never works. Maybe I should take a more free-form approach to it, with coming up with minimums for the less important things and letting practice pretty much take up all the gaps.

I try to keep my sleep relatively uneffected, since too little sleep can negatively affect one in all aspects of life, even though it's popular in college to let that be one of the first things diminished.