Article: Harvard grad who can't hold a job

[Emma G]

An article about one of my former classmates.

What do you guys think would be a solution? He shared his dilemma with his friends, including filming a series about his issue and posting on YouTube. Is there a solution to this?

I'm a Harvard grad who can't hold a fast-food job | Salon Life

[UnleashReality]

just read it.

seems like the reason he can't hold a fast food job is because he went for it in the first place. he's decided that he should be somewhere else in his mind (given his "harvard degree") and yet goes for fast food job, that creates more suffering and it gets worse.

i'd say seems like he's made a bit of an identity out of his situation.

best thing i could recommend in that regard and just getting space and perspective - soemthing that's helped me loads - is the Sedona Method. there's plenty online if you're a huslter.

best of luck to your friend
alex

[Angela]

Good advice in the reply to that guy in there:

If you must fear something, fear dying without living.

To which I would add: quit whining, buddy, and use a little of that energy it takes to write whiny letters to Salon to take positive action in your life. You think someone is going to see this letter and think, "wow, what an insightful, deep, intelligent thinker! We can't let this brilliant mind go to waste! We must find and hire this fellow NOW!" Ich don't theeenk so. And without taking responsibility in his life, it seems pretty unlikely that he'll create purposeful entrepreneurial engagement for himself.

First order of business: Move out of living at effect and into Being at Cause in your life!

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by Angela

...
First order of business: Move out of living at effect and into Being at Cause in your life!

I think it's the first time I don't agree with you Angela.

The problem is more that the guy doesn't see what it is. Just telling him to get his act together won't work.

What may work is coaching him to raise his awareness of what he has created so far, and what blocks him from creating more.

Another thing is the role his parents play in this: what do they do to continue his situation?

Yes the guy would benefit tremendously of realizing that being at cause is the most empowering thing, but it needs more than just telling him he's a whiner.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by spirit4711

Just telling him to get his act together won't work.

Well, I didn't tell him to get his act together, I told him to quit whining and take responsibility. Not quite the same thing.

And actually, it DID work. I felt better.

You know, I've been in the whiny boat, and I know that a bunch of well-meaning people murmuring, "there, there, poor you, things will get better! Fooey on those big bad people out there who have hurt you, my poor little lamby-pooh," have only helped me to stay stuck in self-pity, because it feels so good to be soothed and consoled. Not a whole lotta motivation to take action that will end the schmoop! What helped me get moving was my bold friends who said, "quit your bitching and get your ass moving, girl, you're getting on my nerves."

Your mom schmoopin' on you is one thing, and if the guy came to me for coaching, that would be another -- because that would mean he was taking positive action. But writing whiny letters to Salon doesn't strike me as responsibly looking at how he might find a solution. It strikes me as schmoop-mongering.

As Steve Pavlina has been known to say, this place is about growth, not safety and self-pity.

And spirit, I'm fine with you disagreeing with me, but did you miss the meat of my advice? "Move out of living at effect, and move into being at cause in your life." Numero uno coaching for power. You quoted it, but did you catch that that's the meat of the matter? This whole, how do his parents enable him approach is just more living at effect. The guy is not a child. He's 25 years old, and if he was smart enough for Harvard, he's smart enough to figure out a way to take full responsibility for his life, or to choose not to.

[Emma G]

Actually, I think that this article turned him into a whiny person, when he isn't really. I can relate to this. We grew up in a community, coddled, and shaped to be the next generation of professional keepers of the world, doctors, lawyers, engineers, with the stability of inside the box.

Many of the creative people that were in our classes were almost out of the loop, and not really given strong direction or how to think and choose for ourselves. Many of the creatives even tried to fit into the conventional careers, including getting degrees in things they didn't really like, and discovering only after smooshing themselves in the box, that the box dissolved after graduation. No one told us how to be independent thinkers, and how to actually see our life and spirit paths, do what called us, not what we were told to do by those around us.

I can also relate because I am also a creative, although practical as well at the necessary time of my life, as far as it was to get me to my position in life. It worked, and I had all the things and open doors that I needed, but I could not walk through them, for different reasons, although possibly related or perpetuated in part to this same dynamic of the conventional community.


Anyways, we were given great educations and a great community. And they do breed a lot of great professionals and keepers of society. But I feel like a lot of talented creatives were not given the same kind of support.


Anyways, yes, I hope that maybe this issue will be resolved, somehow.

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by Angela

...
And spirit, I'm fine with you disagreeing with me, but did you miss the meat of my advice? "Move out of living at effect, and move into being at cause in your life." Numero uno coaching for power. You quoted it, but did you catch that that's the meat of the matter?

Yes which was I quoted it. My point is, telling someone that they should live being at cause usually isn't enough in itself, even if they understand and want it. Reading back, I wasn't clear on that .

This whole, how do his parents enable him approach is just more living at effect. The guy is not a child. He's 25 years old, and if he was smart enough for Harvard, he's smart enough to figure out a way to take full responsibility for his life, or to choose not to.

Same here. His parents are a big influence on his life and where he is now. It might help him to understand what the role is his parents are playing in this, as well as his own role. There´s a great book I read a long time ago by John Cleese and Robin Skynner, ´Families and how to survive them´ which very nicely explains how we are influenced by our family. Becoming aware of that can support tremendously in deciding who we are and want to be, even if our family does not support that. Not because we need to blame or complain (= live at effect), but because we need to understand where we are now, how we came there so we can make new choices.

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by Emma G

...



Anyways, yes, I hope that maybe this issue will be resolved, somehow.

How about inviting him to this forum?

[Angela]

You may be right, spirit. And I still believe that moving to a stand of being at cause in your life is the first, most potent action. If you examine the influence your parents (or anyone or anything else) has on you while you're living in a position of being at effect, you'll read it with an eye towards changing or blaming them and feeling entitled to that -- which leaves you still powerless to make positive change. Move to being at cause and THEN examine your influences -- or whatever else there is to do -- and get your understandings inside of the perspective of responsibility, and you have power to effect change in your life.

Actually, I don't think it matters much what you do or read or study or learn as long as you start from a position of being at cause -- you are success, even when you generate or encounter undesirable events. And likewise, I don't think it matters what you do if you live at effect -- you are powerless, even if desirable things *happen to* you.

[Rapid]

I think that he does have the motivation and persistence to accomplish certain things, such as writing that letter and making videos for Youtube. But these are, of course, things with little risk involved.

I think the issue is that his parents are taking care of all his basic needs. He might want to ask them to stop supporting him for a while so that he can have the motivation to go get a job.

Fast food jobs are ill-suited to someone with his intellect and education (I know this from having worked at entry-level jobs). He may do better at white-collar jobs. Try journalism to start - even if it's low paying.

But really, he's the only one who can get himself out of his ditch.

[dinc]

Originally Posted by Rapid

Fast food jobs are ill-suited to someone with his intellect and education (I know this from having worked at entry-level jobs). He may do better at white-collar jobs. Try journalism to start - even if it's low paying.

Freelance work seems to be a highly untapped market. Very few people even mention it when making suggestions for jobs, which I find to be odd. I think freelance work is more empowering than a job because you can choose to work on projects that engage your interest and challenge your knowledge on a subject.

It's also really easy to get into. At sixteen, roughly a year ago, I set aside a month (really three weeks) to learn html, xhtml, css, and php. This is neither an extraordinary feat nor a very time consuming one. In fact, with the proper application of 'I'm gonna $**#$*& do this!', it can probably be done in about a week.

I immediately started doing some freelance work, undercutting competition in order to gain experience, and after a few projects I raised my prices a bit. After a few months of freelance programming and a portfolio of work and references, you should be able to be doing at least $20 an hour work, maybe more.

Emma, you probably should invite your friend to this forum. I'm curious as to if and how he will tackle this problem.

[Will Edwards]

OK - I would ask him to challenge himself to do something very simple - like getting out of bed every day at a particular time - consistently for 1 week.

Ask him to commit every day to getting up at 7.00 am for example. The goal does not need to be difficult, but it should be something he will commit to achieving.

Once he can do that, you can discuss the next goal. Just keep doing it; slightly bigger goals over the course of time. He will be amazed how he will feel about goal-setting after he has achieved a few goals - even simple ones.

Will

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by Angela

Y

...
Actually, I don't think it matters much what you do or read or study or learn as long as you start from a position of being at cause -- you are success, even when you generate or encounter undesirable events. And likewise, I don't think it matters what you do if you live at effect -- you are powerless, even if desirable things *happen to* you.

Ah, we agree again - we just state it differently .

For me the question would be if I talked with him: what could I do to to entice him to be at cause? Because yes, that's the most powerful place to be. Force ('stop whining!!!') probably wouldn't work, though some people (me!) react favourably to some provocative coaching. Many people react better to being persuaded (not: manipulated!) into what they see is best for them.

@Emma G: are you in contact with this guy?

[Emma G]

Actually, I think that this, like my post, is being misinterpreted. Perhaps it is a matter of consciousness or societal or socioeconomic level, which correlates into state of mind and values and goals. The respondent in that article, as well as all the people who responded in the letters to it, and the responses here, are all on the line of 'get up and do something'. This is missing the point, though, and the real issue of feeling detached from society.

I am not in regular contact with him-- he is a classmate. In this situation, he is a very talented artist and filmmaker. He is also very intelligent. He had enough world sense to function when the rules were clear around us, to excel in school, follow the rules, and graduate.

However, I think that his problem is NOT of sheer laziness or entitlement, although that is how it was interpreted by the respondent in the article. He stated clearly that he has a social phobia and depression. However, I think these may be symptoms of his inability to connect with the world, rather than the cause.


What I can see from his situation though, from a higher or spiritual perspective, is that he does not fit into the mold of the polished professional that our communities nurtures and creates. He has everything secured on all levels of basic life, all needs met, stellar education, intellect, and talent. However, I think that he is detached from the general life of all our friends, classmates, and community, and the standard goals that they have. I think that he also sees better than that, and was to create things from a secure position in his life, but that his detachment from life, which in the positive sense is artistic, becomes negative when it means that he cannot function or connect sufficiently to secure his position in society and the world.

We are also not motivated by 'get a job' or 'support yourself', when we can't see the point in the bigger picture. Our motivations were to be from higher levels, artistic, creative, fulfilling the artistic visions and spiritual callings, to create and channel a certain energy to the world. But when all the 'grounded' elements, are pointing in the direction of conventional professional jobs, this detaches us from that grounded element, but without the connection to the secure element for us in our intended work, the link to the world becomes disconnected. Without adequate grounding, and being detached from the conventional goals of the masses, this is alienating. After a certain point, I can see how this would detach one from society and the world in general, as a whole.

So, I'm not sure what, if there is a solution here, but I'm sure that his life was supposed to be grounded on the earth in the position that he was to work and create from, but I think that it is a missing link here. So, not sure how that could be reconnected, or if it can, but that's what it looks like right now.

[spirit4711]

Well, could it be valuable for him to participate in this forum? If so, would it be valuable for you to point him here?

[aggie]

emma, i think this is all very sad....in spite of all the education and coddling and expectations....there unfortunately has been some arrested development in living life...book smart doesn't make street smart...book smart does not mean you can clinically appy anything you have learned. everything is wonderful in theory but actually doing it and there is paralysis....i am not saying this to be mean...i know what it is like to feel like i can't fit in for other reasons....but one must find solutions to be able to function...those who chose not to enable will not tolerate the whining and they will do you the most good. i think part of the problem is over analyzing the way you think life should be and making things way more complicated.

[aelle]

Originally Posted by Emma G

Actually, I think that this, like my post, is being misinterpreted. Perhaps it is a matter of consciousness or societal or socioeconomic level, which correlates into state of mind and values and goals. The respondent in that article, as well as all the people who responded in the letters to it, and the responses here, are all on the line of 'get up and do something'. This is missing the point, though, and the real issue of feeling detached from society.

Actually Emma, I think that a lot of people on these boards do understand where you come from, have been there and are trying to help you see beyond it.

Originally Posted by Emma G

What I can see from his situation though, from a higher or spiritual perspective, is that he does not fit into the mold of the polished professional that our community nurtures and creates.

The thing is, this is far from being rare, or the fate of a certain elite - although, speaking from experience, it is harder to leave that state when your situation is sheltered and comfortable. It happens to a lot of people. It happened to me - why do you think I left the country?

I am curious, as you are a rather recent poster here, have you read the archives of Steve's blog? You might learn a thing or two from his Berkeley experience. Here is a guy who definitely didn't fit in the mold of the elite. And he definitely found a way out.

Another source you might want to read on is A.S. Neil, the founder of the unschooling/free education movement. Your acquaintance's situation sounds a lot like what kids who have recently left the strict school system experience. They can't see the point. They don't understand what life is supposed to achieve once you remove the artificial rules and rewards of school (or, in your and your friend's situation, of corporate life). They don't feel connected to the world. But after a while, the passion comes back. It may not be easy or comfortable, but kids end up finding their true reason to live and put it in action. It may be simpler to do when you're 8 than when you're 25.... but really, what else is there to do instead?

[CroMagna]

I was extremely offended by all that stuff Cary Tennis added in about how easy it is to succeed it you're white.

[BloodyBandage]

once he realizes his degree doesn't guarantee success and he has to earn his right by providing a service then he can get a job that he excels at.