Is writing for a living an attainable goal?

[Pyper900]

It's a fairly simple question, though the answer has eluded me for many years.

There are two parts to the equation; writing and living.

Can I write? Yes, I do so every day, to varying degrees of quality and usually fairly prolific quantities. This effectively satisfies the first value needed to solve the puzzle, as I can...and do write.

Can I live on my writing? If experience is any measure, the answer to this part of the problem is equally simple, but entirely disapointing. No, I cannot; more accurately...no, I have not been able to thus far.

I have explored the various angles, staff writer, freelance writer, technical writer, copywriter, blogger, webmaster, writing as a secondary function of a position, books, articles, novella's, training, op/ed...you name it, I've tried it.

Possibly the only thing I can be accused of not doing, is giving any one avenue too much of a chance.

It's almost sickening to hear from someone how well I write. To be complimented for doing the thing that I so love to do, yet cannot find a way to monetise effectively, so that I can just do it.

Some advice would be appreciated more than you know.

[Bliss Sage]

Originally Posted by Pyper900

It's a fairly simple question, though the answer has eluded me for many years.

There are two parts to the equation; writing and living.

Can I write? Yes, I do so every day, to varying degrees of quality and usually fairly prolific quantities. This effectively satisfies the first value needed to solve the puzzle, as I can...and do write.

Can I live on my writing? If experience is any measure, the answer to this part of the problem is equally simple, but entirely disapointing. No, I cannot; more accurately...no, I have not been able to thus far.

I have explored the various angles, staff writer, freelance writer, technical writer, copywriter, blogger, webmaster, writing as a secondary function of a position, books, articles, novella's, training, op/ed...you name it, I've tried it.

Possibly the only thing I can be accused of not doing, is giving any one avenue too much of a chance.

It's almost sickening to hear from someone how well I write. To be complimented for doing the thing that I so love to do, yet cannot find a way to monetise effectively, so that I can just do it.

Some advice would be appreciated more than you know.

I'm in the same boat. I hope you get some responses.

[Matt Willard]

Being a writer sucks like that, doesn't it? I should know. I'm always working on humor and fiction...but I also want to get out of my mom's place, so other things must be done. It's always a fight, it seems.

[Indiana]

I don't understand... if you have held positions as a staff writer, have secured freelance commissions, done copywriting, etc... were you not getting paid to do them? Or did they not add up to a full-time income? Or is this not the type of writing you want to support you?

Working as a journalist, a staff writer, a copywriter, an editor - all of those kinds of roles pay a living wage at least, some of them very good, especially if you freelance. I'm a freelance writer and editor who works about 30 paid hours a week for an annual income of around $60,000, which I think is totally adequate. If, as you say, you have all the technical skills and a good reputation, why do you think you are struggling to get work? As an editor, I find it difficult to source enough good writers for the work I have to commission!

One reason I think I get work - apart from the quality of my writing, presumably - is that I know a LOT of people in the industry. And I'm very good at pitching, because I do my research on the clients I want to work for. Are you proactive with pitching, and do you know the people you're pitching to?

[rocksupreme]

Hi. This is not exactly what you are asking for, but I really think it's relevant to your position. I don't have the exact link at hand, but search for 279 Day to Overnight Success. It's a very thorough, free ebook by Chris G at artofnonconformity.com and it's got a ton of advice on "making it" as a writer online (or really doing anything).

[themaster]

Originally Posted by Pyper900

Some advice would be appreciated more than you know.

Your sitting on a loa forum complaining about how writing and money is a hard attainable goal..

All I can say is you have a belief/definition that it's a hard goal.. I've known for a long time I could be a writer and yah even do well at it.. get myself a following but it's just not what I want to do..

My advice to you is not about "action" orientated goals (I don't see any in this thread.. but maybe I didn't read it well) if you want action goals.. I suggest you seek a writer’s forum and or thread..

My suggestion to you is to spend time working on yourself and removing your limiting beliefs.. my teacher says (PARAPHRASE) that when you see your evidence/effect/fame on your world/reality that you are just allowing yourself to see how powerful you are.. I suggest in small part you work on that idea.. and I suggest in big part you work on LOA and yourself for in doing so.. since all of reality comes from you anyway.. you will accomplish everything you seek 10x easier.. live long and prosper!

[Clare Lucy]

Originally Posted by Pyper900

It's a fairly simple question, though the answer has eluded me for many years.

There are two parts to the equation; writing and living.

Can I write? Yes, I do so every day, to varying degrees of quality and usually fairly prolific quantities. This effectively satisfies the first value needed to solve the puzzle, as I can...and do write.

Can I live on my writing? If experience is any measure, the answer to this part of the problem is equally simple, but entirely disapointing. No, I cannot; more accurately...no, I have not been able to thus far.

I have explored the various angles, staff writer, freelance writer, technical writer, copywriter, blogger, webmaster, writing as a secondary function of a position, books, articles, novella's, training, op/ed...you name it, I've tried it.

Possibly the only thing I can be accused of not doing, is giving any one avenue too much of a chance.

It's almost sickening to hear from someone how well I write. To be complimented for doing the thing that I so love to do, yet cannot find a way to monetise effectively, so that I can just do it.

Some advice would be appreciated more than you know.

Yes, making a good living from writing is an attainable goal. Think of all the books, magazines, information sheets, articles, internet pages that are published every single day....they all have to be written by someone. Why not you?

There are a lot of resources out there for writers which will contain good advice. However, some practical things to consider:

What state is your portfolio in?
Do you rewrite and resell articles in different markets?
Are you offering your clients what they really want?

Also, as themaster suggests, look at your beliefs around making your living through writing. If you believe it will be hard, then it will be hard.

Clare

[AdamFl3tcher]

Information is the highest valuable asset in the world. Without information distribution (through writing, word of mouth, tv, ect.) we would still be living in caves. So, yes, it's very possible to make a LOT of money writing... you just have to have something important and valuable to say.

Also, writing often isn't enough, you have to sell your writing. Learn how to sell.

- Adam

[Pyper900]

Originally Posted by Indiana

I don't understand... if you have held positions as a staff writer, have secured freelance commissions, done copywriting, etc... were you not getting paid to do them? Or did they not add up to a full-time income? Or is this not the type of writing you want to support you?

Working as a journalist, a staff writer, a copywriter, an editor - all of those kinds of roles pay a living wage at least, some of them very good, especially if you freelance. I'm a freelance writer and editor who works about 30 paid hours a week for an annual income of around $60,000, which I think is totally adequate. If, as you say, you have all the technical skills and a good reputation, why do you think you are struggling to get work? As an editor, I find it difficult to source enough good writers for the work I have to commission!

One reason I think I get work - apart from the quality of my writing, presumably - is that I know a LOT of people in the industry. And I'm very good at pitching, because I do my research on the clients I want to work for. Are you proactive with pitching, and do you know the people you're pitching to?

I explored those angles, I didn't hold those positions. My academic credentials don't include journalistic training, and in a job market that is entirely flooded with young and eager journalism graduates, my opportunities are few and far between.

Freelance work, unless you do know a "ton" of people in the industry (and I don't), offers a mere pittance, and no, one cannot live on that income.

So, my options are reduced to webmedia (which I am currently working on), independent books, which is a lottery at best, and periodical submissions, again a lottery, but mixed with the poor revenue potential of freelance copywriting.

The few success stories are unbalanced in the face of the many who don't make it in professional writing. Talent is the least of ones concern where literary success is at question.

[Pyper900]

Originally Posted by themaster

Your sitting on a loa forum complaining about how writing and money is a hard attainable goal..

All I can say is you have a belief/definition that it's a hard goal.. I've known for a long time I could be a writer and yah even do well at it.. get myself a following but it's just not what I want to do..

My advice to you is not about "action" orientated goals (I don't see any in this thread.. but maybe I didn't read it well) if you want action goals.. I suggest you seek a writer’s forum and or thread..

My suggestion to you is to spend time working on yourself and removing your limiting beliefs.. my teacher says (PARAPHRASE) that when you see your evidence/effect/fame on your world/reality that you are just allowing yourself to see how powerful you are.. I suggest in small part you work on that idea.. and I suggest in big part you work on LOA and yourself for in doing so.. since all of reality comes from you anyway.. you will accomplish everything you seek 10x easier.. live long and prosper!

To ignore semantic metaphore, I'm not sitting on any forum. I'm sitting in a chair.

Personal Developement for Smart People is the title of the community, is it not? Therefore, if I seek personal development, and consider myself to be a smart person, this is the right place for me.

I fully realise that my own "limiting beliefs" are the biggest obstacle in front of me. I realise that the term 'if it is to be, it is up to me', is far more succinct than most understand. Moreover, I realise that I need help to overcome my own self-sabotage...hence my post.

My question was merely an attempt to open a dialogue on the subject, and a much as I would like an easy answer, I realise the easiest answer need not be said.

In any event, thank you for your response.

BTW...I might have taken your advice with a little less defence had your tone been a little more charitable.

[Pyper900]

Originally Posted by AdamFl3tcher

Information is the highest valuable asset in the world. Without information distribution (through writing, word of mouth, tv, ect.) we would still be living in caves. So, yes, it's very possible to make a LOT of money writing... you just have to have something important and valuable to say.

Also, writing often isn't enough, you have to sell your writing. Learn how to sell.

- Adam

I appreciate your input, though I suggest that "[having] something important and valuable to say" is less important than you think, as evidenced by the plethora of supermarket tabloids and junk drama novels on the shelves of nearly any bookstore these days.

[Pyper900]

Passive income is the holy grail of morally monetising worth, this is the message I've gleaned from the many pages of Steve Pavlina's blog and articles.

Writing for payment seems to be the ultimate, and the oldest, form of passive income then. Is this why it is so intrinsically difficult to generate sustainable and generous income streams from writing?

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Pyper900

It's almost sickening to hear from someone how well I write. To be complimented for doing the thing that I so love to do, yet cannot find a way to monetise effectively, so that I can just do it.

Some advice would be appreciated more than you know.

Next time someone compliments your writing, ask 'em for money! If they say no, thanks, ask them what it would take for a piece of your writing to go from worth complimenting to worth paying for, in their opinion. What would they have to want, or Be, or be doing, that they would pay for writing? Ask yourself the same question -- what would you pay for?

I pay for Oprah's magazine because it is a collection of reliably interesting, informative, fun, and inspiring short pieces. I'll pay for books by particular authors as soon as they come out -- because I like that author's voice. (For instance, there are a gazillion authors who write about decorating for small spaces, but the only one who I'd pre-order is Dylan Landis, because I enjoy "hearing" what she has to say. Same thing with feng shui -- I would buy anything by Karen Rauch Carter, because reading her work is like having a very fun chat with a particularly fun friend.) For me, if I like the way you *sound*, I'd pay money to hear it.

What about you?

[Pyper900]

Originally Posted by Angela

Next time someone compliments your writing, ask 'em for money! If they say no, thanks, ask them what it would take for a piece of your writing to go from worth complimenting to worth paying for, in their opinion. What would they have to want, or Be, or be doing, that they would pay for writing? Ask yourself the same question -- what would you pay for?

I pay for Oprah's magazine because it is a collection of reliably interesting, informative, fun, and inspiring short pieces. I'll pay for books by particular authors as soon as they come out -- because I like that author's voice. (For instance, there are a gazillion authors who write about decorating for small spaces, but the only one who I'd pre-order is Dylan Landis, because I enjoy "hearing" what she has to say. Same thing with feng shui -- I would buy anything by Karen Rauch Carter, because reading her work is like having a very fun chat with a particularly fun friend.) For me, if I like the way you *sound*, I'd pay money to hear it.

What about you?

You have a neat way of looking at things Angela, each time we talk you effectively turn my head in another direction.

I'm going to do exactly that; the next time I'm complimented on a piece, whatever it is, my response will be: 'Thank you, that'll be $10...cash only please!'

I've typically had difficulty getting people to critique my work, whether it be my reponses that turn them off, or basic disinterest. I seldom get much beyond a cursory "Wow, I wish I could write like that", which is less than helpful (and a little more than suspicious in my mind).

[Asmoday]

By the way, Amazon has a great self-publishing program. You might have to branch out your skills and figure out how to *sell* your own work. I don't know you or your current products, but this could require you to step back and say, "okay, what do people want, and how can I give it to them in my work?". You might have to learn marketing, public speaking (for interviews), etc. This doesn't have to be an on-line thing, if that's not your bag. The book Eragon (I personally didn't like it), was written by a 17 year old kid who self-published and basically went door to door.

But the answer to your question is a resounding YES -- IF you believe, IF you don't give up, IF you continue to seek the route that gets you there.

We've said it before, we'll repeat it again, "WHATEVER the mind can concieve and believe, it CAN achieve".

[Odysseus Ithaca]

Originally Posted by Pyper900

I explored those angles, I didn't hold those positions. My academic credentials don't include journalistic training, and in a job market that is entirely flooded with young and eager journalism graduates, my opportunities are few and far between.

Freelance work, unless you do know a "ton" of people in the industry (and I don't), offers a mere pittance, and no, one cannot live on that income.

So, my options are reduced to webmedia (which I am currently working on), independent books, which is a lottery at best, and periodical submissions, again a lottery, but mixed with the poor revenue potential of freelance copywriting.

The few success stories are unbalanced in the face of the many who don't make it in professional writing. Talent is the least of ones concern where literary success is at question.

It sounds like one goal you might want to consider is building a network of people in your industry (and outside of it, for that matter). I'm a fan of Harvey MacKay's "Dig Your Well Before You're Thirsty," although I'm sure there are other excellent books on the subject.

Perhaps speaking in public on a topic you're very knowledgable about could help you make contacts and build your personal brand. Although I have not yet made the time to try it out, I've often heard that Toastmasters is great for building skill in public speaking.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Pyper900

You have a neat way of looking at things Angela, each time we talk you effectively turn my head in another direction.

Thanks. That has me feeling like I'm effectively living my purpose.

I'm going to do exactly that; the next time I'm complimented on a piece, whatever it is, my response will be: 'Thank you, that'll be $10...cash only please!'

If I were you, I'd phrase it as an inquiry rather than a demand, like, "Is it something you would pay to read? How much? Would you like to commission a work?" You can do that on your blog, too, you know... ask people if they find it valuable and if so, encourage them to {donate here}. Small amounts can add up, and they can give you a sense of being a professional writer -- that feeling can go a long way in getting you into an upward spiral.

I've typically had difficulty getting people to critique my work, whether it be my reponses that turn them off, or basic disinterest. I seldom get much beyond a cursory "Wow, I wish I could write like that", which is less than helpful (and a little more than suspicious in my mind).

"You could, easily and effortlessly, by subscribing to my online series, 'Write Like Pyper900 in Only 7 Days.'"

[James81]

Originally Posted by Pyper900

Possibly the only thing I can be accused of not doing, is giving any one avenue too much of a chance.

There's your answer.

You can absolutely make a living from writing. But it takes a lot of time and persistance to get to that place. Just trying something and then giving up won't get you there.

What you need to do is pick a direction and go at it until you achieve your goal.

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by Angela

...
"You could, easily and effortlessly, by subscribing to my online series, 'Write Like Pyper900 in Only 7 Days.'"

Angela, you're brilliant! So easy, so natural, it'll work like magic. I'll do something similar from my own blog and when I talk with people.

[Pyper900]

Originally Posted by Angela

"You could, easily and effortlessly, by subscribing to my online series, 'Write Like Pyper900 in Only 7 Days.'"

Haha!! That's excellent! You've done it again Angela!

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Pyper900

Haha!! That's excellent! You've done it again Angela!

Great! That'll be $10, please!

[TexasSky]

Yes, writing for a living is an attainable goal. You need to determine what type of writing you plan to do though. Journalism is very different from novel fiction writing. Journalism in a newspaper is not going to pay well in most markets. Journalism for a magazine can pay well.

If you want to write fiction, you can only make a living at it if you take the process seriously and learn the trade, which includes learning how to market your writing.

Start with the following 5 steps.

1) Buy a copy of the 2009 Writer's Market.
2) Buy a copy of the 2009 to Literary Agents.
3) Buy a copy of Stephen King's "On Writing", and read it.
4) Read every chance you get.
5) Write every chance you get.


You need to know who is buying what type of written material.
You need to know who is willing to look at unsolicited material.

[James81]

Originally Posted by TexasSky

1) Buy a copy of the 2009 Writer's Market.
2) Buy a copy of the 2009 to Literary Agents.

Just an FYI, but you can save yourself some money if you just buy the subscription to writersmarket.com.

And ifyou buy the Writer's Market, you won't need to buy the Literary Agents because the literary agents are listed within the Writer's Market.

[Will Edwards]

Yes - it's definitely possible.

You can write articles for money - it's very simple. And there are places you can sell those articles onlline over and over again as PLR material. There are many people who will pay for your work, so your goal is certainly achievable.

Will

[nhaasch]

Originally Posted by Matt Willard

Being a writer sucks like that, doesn't it? I should know. I'm always working on humor and fiction...but I also want to get out of my mom's place, so other things must be done. It's always a fight, it seems.

I'm just noticing these beliefs. I'm curious if there is a way that being a writer may not such? Perhaps being a writer can be exciting and fun?

Also, is there an way in which it's not always a fight? Is there a way in which being a writing can flow with ease? Can you imagine this?

[TexasSky]

Originally Posted by James81

Just an FYI, but you can save yourself some money if you just buy the subscription to writersmarket.com.

And ifyou buy the Writer's Market, you won't need to buy the Literary Agents because the literary agents are listed within the Writer's Market.

Thank you.
I haven't updated either of my copies (not the 2009 editions obviously) in years, and that was not the case when I bought mine.

[TexasSky]

Originally Posted by Pyper900

I explored those angles, I didn't hold those positions. My academic credentials don't include journalistic training, and in a job market that is entirely flooded with young and eager journalism graduates, my opportunities are few and far between.

Freelance work, unless you do know a "ton" of people in the industry (and I don't), offers a mere pittance, and no, one cannot live on that income.

So, my options are reduced to webmedia (which I am currently working on), independent books, which is a lottery at best, and periodical submissions, again a lottery, but mixed with the poor revenue potential of freelance copywriting.

The few success stories are unbalanced in the face of the many who don't make it in professional writing. Talent is the least of ones concern where literary success is at question.

It does take talent, but it also takes committment to the craft, which includes the work required to produce quality work and market it to parties who can publish it.

Most of those who don't make it really aren't willing to put in the real work involved. They write, but they don't do market research, they don't send the work out to more than a few people, etc.

If you want to seriously earn a living at the craft, I recommend you start with contests. These actually help you build a portfolio of published works for pay. Most serious publishers and most serious agents that pay the kind of money needed to support yourself will not accept unsolicited work from individuals who self-publish or "fan-publish" for free. They don't want to waste their time with material that is not good enough to sell, so they wait for you to show some evidence that someone was willing to pay for your work.

If you win a $15 prize for something you wrote on line, LIST IT.
It may only be $15, but that is money received for your writing, and you gather enough of those, and the better companies are willing to at least read your manuscripts.

[FreelanceWanderer]

Pyper, I'm a full-time freelance writer and have been from 1997. (In fact, I just posted in the Business forum about my services for writers.)

I think the people making the best living from writing are copywriters -- people who write ads, brochures, etc. I used to do a lot of it, and I enjoyed it. It paid well (in the late 90s I was charging $85 per hour in my small town), the work was fun, and my clients treated me well. If this interests you, check out The Well-Fed Writer by Peter Bowerman.

Now I make most of my income through magazine writing -- I support my family and make a good living. Times are rough now in the magazine business, but the good and persistent ones are still breaking in and making money.

While it's great to write for the newsstand magazines (I've written for Woman's Day, Health, Family Circle, Redbook, etc.), most freelancers also write for trade magazines (magazines that target a certain industry, like Pizza Today or Indian Gaming Business) and custom publications (magazines that are published for businesses, like the mag you get from your bank or that you pick up at Pier 1). You can find trade magazines at TradePubs and custom pubs at Custom Publishing Council. You can also find markets that are not on the stands in Writer's Market.

To make it as a freelance writer of any type, even more important that your writing ability is your marketing ability. I think that about 10% of what I do is actually writing. Most of it is marketing myself to editors, coming up with new ideas, writing queries, sending letters of introduction, etc. (And the rest is administrative stuff like invoicing.)

Finally, do check out my blog The Renegade Writer Blog, which is full of tips on breaking into magazines and boosting your career.

Good luck!

FW
Write for Magazines

[Matt Willard]

Originally Posted by nhaasch

I'm just noticing these beliefs. I'm curious if there is a way that being a writer may not such? Perhaps being a writer can be exciting and fun?

Also, is there an way in which it's not always a fight? Is there a way in which being a writing can flow with ease? Can you imagine this?

Hey, I never said I didn't like to write. But maybe I'll handle those beliefs when I try out the belief board.

[Pyper900]

Thank you very much for the responses, the information is appreciated and so is the sentiment.

All great advice!