Greatly improve your memory without tricks?

[bluedragon]

I was wondering if there are ways to significantly improve your ability to remember what you see/learn/hear without memorization techniques? Or with techniques that are very versatile, applicable to any situation, not just to numbers, for example, or to lists.
For example:

• how can you become able to hear a long sequence of numbers and letters and remember it
• to remember faces
• to be able to learn how to use a foreign keyword (Russian for example) by simply pressing all the keys once and seeing what comes up on the screen
• learning a new mathematical formula (that is, say, at your level of mathematical understanding) and remembering it from the first look, and using it successfully without having to go back to look at it
• learning a foreign language grammar rule
• reading a set of laws or "terms of use" without knowing in advance what you will need them for, and then when you face a situation, to be able to remember IF there was a paragraph that is applicable, and what exactly the law said on that subject?

What can someone do, in terms of exercises or how can you put yourself in a state of mind where everything will just settle in your memory?
I don't have anything against memorization techniques, but I don't know if they apply for every important aspect of our life where we need to use our memory.

[magi13]

If you don't wish to use any memory techniques. I personally utilize the method of loci and major system.

What do you find hard with memory systems? Can you specify what you wish to learn or having troubles with?

Imagination
Association
Location

Three things that'll help you with memory. You don't need to have a specific memory method, as long as you utilize those three key concepts you can memorize.

steps

1. Make what you wish to memorize into a visual image.
2. Associate them to something familiar to you.
3. Location stabilizes the association if you need to recall it in a sequence.

All these three things are applied with the help of observation or focus. ^^,

alternative:

Associate it with something you already know. This is the basic back bone of memory. Association/correlation.

Can you cite examples of the things you wish to memorize? or practical examples according to you?

[ken nubo]

Crap ... I forgot the book, but the world's best "memorist" the guy who remembers 52 decks of card in random patterns wrote a book, I'll try to dig the book up
__________________
Here's how you can make $400 by the end of the week on the Internet, cold hard cash -- the methods are free!

[magi13]

Originally Posted by ken nubo

Crap ... I forgot the book, but the world's best "memorist" the guy who remembers 52 decks of card in random patterns wrote a book, I'll try to dig the book up
__________________
Here's how you can make $400 by the end of the week on the Internet, cold hard cash -- the methods are free!

dominic o'brien

I love his work. ^^,

[bluedragon]

Originally Posted by magi13

What do you find hard with memory systems? Can you specify what you wish to learn or having troubles with?

But I did include an entire list!

• to be able to learn how to use a foreign keyword (Russian for example) by simply pressing all the keys once and seeing what comes up on the screen
• learning a new mathematical formula (that is, say, at your level of mathematical understanding) and remembering it from the first look, and using it successfully without having to go back to look at it
• learning a foreign language grammar rule
• reading a set of laws or "terms of use" without knowing in advance what you will need them for, and then when you face a situation, to be able to remember IF there was a paragraph that is applicable, and what exactly the law said on that subject?

These, for example.
I want to know if it's possible to improve memory itself, not just the WAY you use it.

[magi13]

Amazon.co.uk: Dominic O'Brien: Books

I recommend the first book by dominic o'brien. that's exactly the things you asked for.

If you don't wish to use a memory system, learn to associate things with existing things that you already know.

If you want to improve your memory (it is possible). ^^ then it's all about practice. The more you use your memory, the stronger it'll get. It's like a fire that needs to be rekindled.

[RT Wolf]

I'm mostly confused by the question. Do you know any memory techniques, even basic association or chunking data? Are you able to judge the effectiveness of those techniques in those situations without knowing the techniques or what they can do? There are techniques out there for learning almost everything in that list you mention. I'm sure you can do some specific excersizes to improve your ability to do any of those things "naturally" but it seems like it'd be a waste of time compared to learning some techniques.

I suppose you could play some games, too, that rely on memory and up the difficulty as you get better. The issue is whether there is one kind of general memory or specific memorization skill. IE, improving your ability to remember faces may do nothing to improve your ability to memorize long number digits.

Check Google Scholar for memory research.

Hmm. Maybe your model of how memory is needs to be updated? It's not like a filing cabinet, it's more like an abstraction process and every time you remember something, you're reconstructing the memory. That's partially why hypnotic memory recall is no longer allowed in courts as evidence.

So...no, I don't really know of any way to improve memory without using tricks. The only thing I know of is to intend to remember things pretty much all the time. If you're trying to create a photographic memory, I dun think that's possible to learn necessarily. Though, the Photoreading things that Steve recommends claims to encourage it, and there are some product sby hte same company that claim to be able to do that. Something by Win Wenger I think.

[magi13]

Amazon.com: Train Your Brain: 60 Days to a Better Brain: Ryuta Kawashima: Books

here's a link done by a brain expert. ^^, his book focuses on the issue you wish to improve.

If you don't want to get the book these are the key things which the research produced.

1. reading aloud uses your brain a lot. (fast and said clearly)
2. counting 1-120 (as fast as you can within two minutes, clearly saying the words will exercise your mind)
3. solving grade level math problems (the simple ones will improve your math/analytical skills)
4. memorizing 30 random words for two minutes, then writing those you remember will exercise your short term memory.
5. having random words with different colors. ex. blue (but colored red) you say red, is a good exercise to improve your memory.

these exercise can be done at maximum 5 minutes per day and is scientifically proven to improve your overall focus, memory and analytical skills.

These don't utilize mnemonics, just what you already know. ^^ try it. :3

here's a good exercise you can do always when your here in the forum. Read aloud the things written with respect to the topics your interested with as fast as you can. ^^,

[bluedragon]

Originally Posted by RT Wolf

I'm mostly confused by the question. Do you know any memory techniques, even basic association or chunking data? Are you able to judge the effectiveness of those techniques in those situations without knowing the techniques or what they can do? There are techniques out there for learning almost everything in that list you mention. I'm sure you can do some specific excersizes to improve your ability to do any of those things "naturally" but it seems like it'd be a waste of time compared to learning some techniques.

Well, my question is in the same scope as the question "can IQ really be improved?". Some believe we are limited to what we were born with, by genetics in other words. We can learn how to use our intelligence better, but we can never become more intelligent. We can learn how to make better memory associations, but we can never learn how to make or capacity of remembering ANY given association better than we can at the present time.
I didn't say I'm opposed to memory techniques. I just said I want to know something else, too - how to improve memory itself, and essentially, my brain's performance.
Why is it that some remember things easier than others, despite both using the same technique? Their background of knowledge may be one factor, but I think each persons's brain may be more powerful than another's in terms of it's ability to remember, and I'm hoping this can be improved.
For example, if you get enough sleep, you will have better recall. If your brain is oxygenated enough, you will perform better. Are there other things you can do, especially thins that will increase your brain's effectiveness over a long term?

[magi13]

IQ can be improved, just know the rules or instructions given by the IQ test.

With respect to memory, memory is like a muscle, the more you use it the more it will improve.

I believe the most important thing to memory is observation/focus or concentration. Darkworker posted a good mental exercise in his "will" thread.

My recommendation is that, Utilize method of loci, it's effective, you can use it anywhere.

Or if you're having trouble with the method of loci concept. There is always good old, link/chain method. which is the simplest form of mnemonic.

If your having trouble with that. Rote memorization <--

Practicing any of those will improve your memory over time, it's not an instant thing. ^^

[Brutha]

Why is it that some remember things easier than others, despite both using the same technique?

You will seldom find two people who go through the exact same process to remember something.

Some of your examples have nothing to do with memory. The key about gramatical rules is to be able to speak the language without having to thing about the rules.
A lot of native speakers can't remember the exact gramatical rules when you ask them but are still native speakers that speak there language very well.
The goal of learning a grammer rules isn't to remember the rule.

Being able to remember the rule might help you with expressing yourself gramatically the right way but it's a mistake to assume that those two things are the same.
As RT Wolf pointed out, the filling cabinet analogy gives you a faulty perspective on learning.

I want to know if it's possible to improve memory itself, not just the WAY you use it.

Stop that dualistic thinking, it's not accurate.

A lot about learning is about paying focused attention to the object that you want to learn.

[RT Wolf]

IQ can be improved, but you start to lose IQ points after about 25. You can slow it down with excersize and keeping your brain active. You can also get compensated for IQ loss by becoming wiser or a better thinker.

The consensus seems to be IQ is about 70% heritable. In fact, the Flynn Effect shows a general IQ rise on the order of 7 points every 15 years across teh population:
Flynn effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The thing is, gramatical rules (unless you want to remember them as a sentence) are implicit skill-like rules. Ok, imagine there's two kinds of brain systems: one runs a bit like a computer and that's what you call "me" (called System 2). The other is involved with skill/procedural knowledge, the kind of stuff you can't really put into words (tell me exactly how to throw a ball from here to fifteen feet away and I'll follow your instructions...and screw it up). Language learning of grammatical rules is an implicit skill. In fact, in one study, people who were told to look for a rule and verbalize it in some nonsense sentences using an artificial grammer, did worse on identifying whether a given sentence was built using that aritifical grammer. The group that did not verbalize it and let the implicit brain system (called System 1) handle it, did better.

I'd imagine you can improve your ability to remember things to a degree, I just dunn of any reliable way to do that that causes improvements in memory across the board. I remember one study which gave participants practice as memorizing long strings of digits and before long they could get up quite high, but I don't remember if their general memory improved or just their ability to memorize long strings.

[jthomson71]

I am actually reading a book now called The Overflowing Brain and it discusses how the brain does handle some of these questions you pose. It isn't really about tricks but rather more of a science perspective on how the brain works. Most of what you are refering to all happens in our working memory and there are limits there that seem to be pretty universal. Many of the techniques I've read in the post are really ways to quickly transfer things we see into our long term memory quicker and more effeciently. For example remembering a string of numbers - 7 seems to be the universal avg on the amount of numbers we can hold in our short term memory. some people can hold 8 or 9 some 5 or 6 but most experiements on this issue do avg around 7 numbers. Our brains, as far as development goes really haven't changed since we first started walking upright. they are inundated with info constantly now more info in a day then people a few hundred years ago would receive in a year. i would suggest reading and understanding how the brain works a little and then trying to figure out how to best utilize the info. Outside of some tricks or techniques that may or may not work just learning how that complex organ we call our brain works may help you use it a little better.

[bluedragon]

You will seldom find two people who go through the exact same process to remember something.

Ok, then let's take a single person. How can she become better at using a certain given memorization technique, so that the next time he uses it, he will be able to memorize more in less time? For example, say I have a method of remembering X. But no matter how good my technique is, I can still forget. Maybe X is too complex and my brain can't keep up. How can I improve my ability to use the same technique, so that in the future I will be able to remember X or something equally complex AND challenging for me?

Stop that dualistic thinking, it's not accurate.
A lot about learning is about paying focused attention to the object that you want to learn.

I understand you, but still, memory has to be influenced by the brain's performance/fitness, whatever you wanna call it. The same as a computer stores data on its HDD faster if the HDD has a larger buffer, a higher response time, or if the cable is of greater quality (I guess).

[magi13]

Originally Posted by jthomson71

I am actually reading a book now called The Overflowing Brain and it discusses how the brain does handle some of these questions you pose. It isn't really about tricks but rather more of a science perspective on how the brain works. Most of what you are refering to all happens in our working memory and there are limits there that seem to be pretty universal. Many of the techniques I've read in the post are really ways to quickly transfer things we see into our long term memory quicker and more effeciently. For example remembering a string of numbers - 7 seems to be the universal avg on the amount of numbers we can hold in our short term memory. some people can hold 8 or 9 some 5 or 6 but most experiements on this issue do avg around 7 numbers. Our brains, as far as development goes really haven't changed since we first started walking upright. they are inundated with info constantly now more info in a day then people a few hundred years ago would receive in a year. i would suggest reading and understanding how the brain works a little and then trying to figure out how to best utilize the info. Outside of some tricks or techniques that may or may not work just learning how that complex organ we call our brain works may help you use it a little better.

This is actually good information. ^^, I think the thread starter can use this.

Other than that, Bluedragon, can you specify an example of how you wish to use your memory? I mean i understand the file cabinet concept, I myself do it like that.

Originally Posted by bluedragon

Ok, then let's take a single person. How can she become better at using a certain given memorization technique, so that the next time he uses it, he will be able to memorize more in less time? For example, say I have a method of remembering X. But no matter how good my technique is, I can still forget. Maybe X is too complex and my brain can't keep up. How can I improve my ability to use the same technique, so that in the future I will be able to remember X or something equally complex AND challenging for me?

I understand you, but still, memory has to be influenced by the brain's performance/fitness, whatever you wanna call it. The same as a computer stores data on its HDD faster if the HDD has a larger buffer, a higher response time, or if the cable is of greater quality (I guess).

I see, I don't think memory techniques is your problem, your problem is how to review in order to retain the things you have memorized.
With respect to speed memorization, it's just that constantly exercise your brain via memorizing, the more you use it, the faster it'll be to memorize.

Ex.
I want to memorize this quote

True religion is real living; living with all one's soul, with all one's goodness and righteousness.

First, I read it aloud a few times in order to familiarize with the quote.

Second, I divide it into chunks

True religion is real living;
living with all one's soul,
with all one's goodness and righteousness.

Third, I use the first word of each line into a journey

Bed - True (i super impose the image of pru from charm to remind me of true)
Pillow - Living (i super impose the image of a happy living kitten)
Carpet - With (I super impose the image of bill mathers, because his witty)

I associate these with the key word of the phrase

True - living
Living - soul
With - heart

These basically sums up the whole quote.

I just link the image with the key theme and recall the line as I recall those three locations.

You can use your own visual image to super impose.

Alternative is that I'll rote memorize those lines.

[RT Wolf]

Maybe this? Want to Remember Everything You'll Ever Learn? Surrender to This Algorithm

[Brutha]

I understand you, but still, memory has to be influenced by the brain's performance/fitness, whatever you wanna call it. The same as a computer stores data on its HDD faster if the HDD has a larger buffer, a higher response time, or if the cable is of greater quality (I guess).

No it's not the same. The mind is no computer. The distinction between software and hardware isn't appropriate for the brain.
Everything you learn changes the structure of your brain.

A brain that goes out of habit through the loci method is physically different than one that doesn't.

Other than that, Bluedragon, can you specify an example of how you wish to use your memory? I mean i understand the file cabinet concept, I myself do it like that.

He did, he mentioned learning grammar for foreign languages and learning laws in a way that you can access them by asking the question "what law does apply to this situation?".

Mnemonics allow you to build sort of a file cabinet but that file cabinet can't solve those problems but they have to be solved by non linear brain processes.
It can help you to have remembered some grammatical rule or law in the file cabinet way in those sort of occasions but it isn't enough to solve your problem.

[taktics]

I've actually been thinking of the same thing...

With all these numerous memorization techniques ... but

what if you just want to memorize something without using a technique.

Im sure all of us have the ability to memorize a random phrase like "empty cup". We can all close our eyes and already remember it in an instant. no technique involved at all.. But when it comes to memorizing whole lines many of you will say to use that pegging technique where you associate the words with something you already know.

However how can you attain the ability to memorize the whole line.. just as u would memorize a small phrase like "empty cup"?

Obviously you could use rote memorization but there are certain times when memorization techniques and rote memorization are not suitable.

times like memorizing things people are saying in a speech without the use of notebook and pencil. There's no time for memorization techniques because you're listening to the speech.

I notice some people have the ability to repeat whole choruses of songs after the first time they hear it no matter how complex. Me on the other hand, I have to look up the lyrics even though I understand each word and know what the chorus is saying, My memorization when it comes to verbally remembering things need work.

[GavinMorrice]

Hey bludragon,

I wrote this article last month, I think you'll find it pretty usefull.

How to Develop A Pimped-out Memory

I've also posted links on the article to Harry Lorayne if you wanna persue it further.

Let me know what you think?

[magi13]

Originally Posted by Brutha

He did, he mentioned learning grammar for foreign languages and learning laws in a way that you can access them by asking the question "what law does apply to this situation?".

grammar is about practice. ^^, i remember learning a new language in the past, it's about interaction with someone using the same language. i guess the only thing mnemonics can share here is to remember the word and it's definition.

he'll have to learn how to use it in phrases if he finds someone who knows the language and talk to that someone.

Mnemonics allow you to build sort of a file cabinet but that file cabinet can't solve those problems but they have to be solved by non linear brain processes.
It can help you to have remembered some grammatical rule or law in the file cabinet way in those sort of occasions but it isn't enough to solve your problem.

understanding is something one has to apply through experience. but mnemonics helps us remember a keyword or concept that may define the entire phrase or help us remember that rule.



practice it the key to success. :3 mnemonics is just one of tools to success.^^

visualization and focus will help a lot with non linear thoughts.

note:

Although it is true that method of loci for beginners will find it hard to apply, until they take at least 6 hours of training, according to a recent study for old people. (for those who don't have preparation). So I guess desire (focus) is really needed if you want to improve your memory, and the method (association) that's best for memory.

[magi13]

Originally Posted by GavinMorrice

Hey bludragon,

I wrote this article last month, I think you'll find it pretty usefull.

How to Develop A Pimped-out Memory

I've also posted links on the article to Harry Lorayne if you wanna persue it further.

Let me know what you think?

I liked your article. ^^, it's interesting.

[Brutha]

Im sure all of us have the ability to memorize a random phrase like "empty cup". We can all close our eyes and already remember it in an instant. no technique involved at all..

Just because you aren't conscious of the the process that you use to remember doesn't mean that it isn't there.

Most interesting mental processes aren't conscious.

grammar is about practice. ^^, i remember learning a new language in the past, it's about interaction with someone using the same language.

There are also a lot of people who would say learning vocabulary is simply about practice.
Saying that something is simply about practice simply means that you don't know any better way than practice.

[GavinMorrice]

@magi13 - Thanks

Bear in mind these mnemonic systems are only really effective if you practice them.

The deck of cards trick is really funky though - doesn't take long to master.

[magi13]

Originally Posted by Brutha

Saying that something is simply about practice simply means that you don't know any better way than practice.

I'm sure there are better ways, but repetition and conversations with other people teaches you how to apply the language. :3

Mnemonics can be a keyword or phrase to help remember the thing learned. ^^,

[bluedragon]

Originally Posted by Brutha

Everything you learn changes the structure of your brain.

Ok, but what determines how fast the structure is able to change? Or how much it can change in a given period of time? That's what I want. To improve the brain's ability to change its structure faster, no matter what technique I use.

[Brutha]

Ok, but what determines how fast the structure is able to change? Or how much it can change in a given period of time?

The structure itself.

[gblunt99]

foxythinking.com has four online memory-exercise games that are kind of fun. The one called Ball requires a fullsize screen, however; it kept traveling out of my view.

[magi13]

Originally Posted by gblunt99

foxythinking.com has four online memory-exercise games that are kind of fun. The one called Ball requires a fullsize screen, however; it kept traveling out of my view.

That ball is irritating. hehe, anyway I request you post this link in the fun section. It's worth sharing.

[bluedragon]

Originally Posted by Brutha

The structure itself.

I understand your point of view. And I agree that what you say is true. We could prolong this discussion indefinitely. I could say that I want to improve the material from which the structure is composed, and then you could say that the configuration of the structure determines its quality etc... I hope I will find what I am looking for eventually. After all, nobody understands exactly how our brains work, not even the best scientists claim they have it all figured out.
In the mean time, I will try to learn memory techniques and see how they work.

[Brutha]

I could say that I want to improve the material from which the structure is composed, and then you could say that the configuration of the structure determines its quality etc... I hope I will find what I am looking for eventually.

But than you would be searching for things like the DNA that you can't effectively change with today's technology.
Additionally you don't even know whether that would greatly improve the mental capacity when the Neurons are already wired in a specific pattern.

Learning is always about finding connection between the things you want to learn and other things in your mind. That progress often doesn't happen on a conscious level but it's still about connecting new ideas to old ones.