Are Goals Overhyped?

[DmitryDavydov]

As much as I find Steve to be an interesting fellow, I think that goals are way too overhyped. A lot of very good individuals and very successful companies got to where they are right now without commiting themselves to any rigid goal structure.

My feeling is that goals are way too overhyped. The only benefit of setting goals is thinking about what you REALLY WANT. But you don't need to set goals for that.

Am I alone in my belief that goals are just a fad? Like Atkins Diet?

[Henry]

I don't think they're overhyped. A goal is something to aim for. Goal structures don't have to be rigid. They can be as simple as "make it to work on time" or "exercise 3x a week."

[ahimel]

I don't know if you're alone, but I'll join in the discussion. I'm a committed goal-setter, so I'd love to see both sides of the question.

I don't know that the ONLY benefit of setting goals is thinking about what you really want, but I'll agree that it's probably the biggest. So we may have a simple difference of linguistics here. If you have some method of thinking about what you want and deciding which of those you want so much that you'll put in time and effort to get it, but you don't want to call this method "goal-setting", then I'll agree with you that it's not necessary to set goals.

I do think that the italicized bit is important. Most people think about what they want all the time. Very few take these desires, prioritize them to determine the top two or three to work on, figure out a way to accomplish them, and then implement this plan. Thinking about what you want will get you motivated, but you'll be running in 15 different directions. Deciding what you want will probably frighten you, motiviate you, and get you running in a very definite direction with a plan to get you there. And that's clearly a better way to get where you're going.

I'd argue that if you have some method by which you think about what you want, and decide what you want, the end result is going to look a lot like a goal, whatever you want to call it.

There was also a post on Levels of Awareness, in which Steve said that you could also get past goal-setting. At some point, you've been thinking about your (ultimate) goals for so long, and are so aware of your environment and yourself and the effect of your actions, that concious goal-setting is unecessary; you'll just do whatever is best in line with your life's purpose. But the only way to get to that level of awareness is to get through the levels where you have to deliberatly decide to be at that level of awareness.

[takkaria]

Goals, on their own, are not the whole answer. Goals which fit into an overall vision have their place.

There's a danger, perhaps even a tendency, to become too focused on outcomes with goals. "Make x sales calls every day that get me contracts" or whatever may be a perfectly fine goal (it's measurable, objective, etc.), but it's fundamentally over something you can't control. You can control how much effort, energy or thought you put into said calls, but not the outcomes themselves. I think it's important to keep that in mind when setting goals, but I find that sometimes it's not mentioned much.

So perhaps goals are a little overhyped, or maybe the story around them isn't always fully told. "Everything in moderation," goes the old saying.

[DmitryDavydov]

What do you guys think about Steven Shapiro's Goal Free Living? I liked it a lot.

[norbert]

The benefit of goals is that they give a certain quality for the present moment. Steve himself wrote that a while ago. I guess that's what you should aim for. If a goal changes how you act and behave now, you're on the right path. A Zig Ziglar quote comes also to mind: "If there is faith in the future, there is power in the present". I believe goals give you the faith. But the essence is still what Steve pointed out.

If my goal makes me to act now instead of surfing the net or watching TV, I wouldn't call that overhyped. I believe some people overhype goals. But that's their problem. Use goal setting wisely.

[satan]

Originally Posted by DmitryDavydov

As much as I find Steve to be an interesting fellow, I think that goals are way too overhyped. A lot of very good individuals and very successful companies got to where they are right now without commiting themselves to any rigid goal structure.
[...]
Am I alone in my belief that goals are just a fad? Like Atkins Diet?

You are not alone. I just read great book about this topic: Overachievement by John Eliot, Ph.D.

In it you can find a small paragraph
"Setting goals is for couch potatoes. The long-standing practice of goal setting is actually a major obstacle to sustained, vigorous motivation - and to being great"

It's a really good book and I highly recommend it.

You can get it on amazon.com

Amazon.com: Overachievement: The New Model for Exceptional Performance: Books: John Eliot
Notice: if anyone buys this book using the above link I will get some money for it. If you you do not agree with that just go to amazon.com and in the search box type Overachievement John Eliot to find this great book

Me.

[takkaria]

Originally Posted by satan

You are not alone. I just read great book about this topic: Overachievement by John Eliot, Ph.D.

In it you can find a small paragraph
"Setting goals is for couch potatoes. The long-standing practice of goal setting is actually a major obstacle to sustained, vigorous motivation - and to being great"

Wow! I've just been listening to "The Maverick Mindset", an audiobook by the same guy, which seems to extoll the same sort of things. I recommend the audiobook, too.

[Steve Pavlina]

... crossing "Add discussion forums to StevePavlina.com" off my goals list right now...

If I didn't set goals, this web site wouldn't exist, and these forums definitely wouldn't. They both required a serious shift in focus beyond the normal flow of action... and plenty of hard work.

Overly rigid goals can be quite a problem though. Whenever I start thinking my goals are becoming inflexible, I step back up to the level of purpose and work back down from there. I find it best to think of my goals as intentions or decisions rather than rules.

[Dbarker]

Goals to me, are just action items that helps us live our purpose. I believe that if we don't tie goals into that purpose, they become much more difficult to reach, if not impossible. The Big, Hairy, Audacious ones anyway.

[placebo]

You can't be happy with yourself if you aren't succesfull. And how can you achieve something if you don't know what do you want. Obviously you never achieved any of your goals so you can say that goals aren't a necessity.

I'm filled with joy, selfesteem and proud when i set goal and achieve it. Also i haven't found something like that in my life that will give me those feelings. Maybe you think that failure is a bad thing. If you take it as a failure than probably it is failure.

Since i was 8 my only goal was becoming pro basketball player. I was playing and training basketball every day 4-6 hours per day. My dreams were basketball games. My life was basketball. It was my only goal and i wanted it so hard. I don't know many kids who wake up at 6 am during summer break and go to practice. I didn't think about that the way i'm thinking it now but i was sure that is the only way to be great player. For 10 years i was living like that
until one day while i was on collegge i stoped. Nobody understood why i did that. I was great player, played against few of today NBA players, i was one of the best young players in my country. And then i stopped.

Two years have pasted since that decision and i still haven't found one person who would understand why i did it. But simply it is not my goal anymore. My parents think that i threw 10 years of hard work in the wind and i don't have regrets. I don't think that was a failure because i remember how bad i was when i was 8 and how good i was 10 years later. I'm proud of myself, i learned a lot about people playing with different kinds of them and i know that if i managed to learn playing b-ball i can manage anything.

[MartialDev]

I agree that goal-setting has been over-hyped. But the alternative is socially unacceptable, and most of the people who espouse it are not being completely honest with themselves.

People with no goals do not even bathe, much less write bestselling self-help books!

[Persol]

Different people have different levels/terminology for goals:

• some people consider 'wants' to be goals
• some people make goals to meet their wants
• some people use goals as a to-do list

Now, nothing is wrong with any 1 of these 3 viewpoints. They all work, if you realize what you list of goals is actually for.

You don't want to drop everything for a goal if a goal is just a to-do item. However, you do need to step-up if your 'goal' is integral to one of your wants.

I think much of the debate in this topic is over non-precise terminology. Having wants (and realizing what they are) is obviously not 'over-rted'. Makign to-do lists may be.

[Belle]

I don't really do the goals thing anymore. Usually I just think about what it is that I want. I might write it down. I might visualize it. But I don't think of it in terms of a "goal" - not something like, in X number of days/months/years, I will achieve this. There's a rigidity and inflexibility to "goal-setting" that doesn't really appeal to me.

I've been veering away from being too action-oriented for the last little while. I work from an "inspired to-do list". These are things that I feel inspired to do. When I set things down on this list, it's because I'm inspired, and they get done, but they get done because I'm inspired to do them. Inspired action works well for me, although I had to get to truly understanding what exactly inspired action means to me.

These days, I am far more comfortable with not doing something because I don't want to do it, and no longer beat myself up about not doing things. I've been finding that when I need to do something that gets me what I want, it is usually something that I'm inspired to do. It feels right, it flows, and it's easy. And often, stuff that I don't want to do (that also helps me get what I want) ends up getting done for me. It's all easy.

On the other hand, it might be just semantics. I do like to get clear on what I want, and perhaps that's really all a goal is.

I don't do the resolution thing at New Years, either.

(But I DO love baths )

[placebo]

Animals live without goals. Insted of goals they have instincts. They know where and when they can eat, sleep, mate, etc.. You can try to use only instincts but difference is that you interpret things and animals don't. If an animal steps in the fire and get burned it will avoid fire and that's it. And if you get burned you will think why did you get burned, who started the fire, etc. Because of that interpretations of events your beliefs are shaping themselves and create reality. Only thing that you can do is sharpen and polish your beliefs so you can trust your intuition. I believe that can't be done without setting goals.

[Hugh Hollowell]

I learned to lead back in the early 1990's (back when we were in Iraq the 1st time) in the United States Marine Corps. They taught us a concept they called managing by "End State".

Basically, the way it works is you decide what the optimal outcome would be, then move toward that. Rather than tie yourself to a detailed plan that will have to be scrapped once anything changes, you have a broad set of desired outcomes.

Battle (and the entrepreneurial life) is a highly fluid situation. The analogy they used is this: Let's say you are in Chicago and want to go to LA. In that case, being in LA is the endstate. Rather than plot each city you will go to and the number of each exit, you come up with a 70% plan (i.e., one that has a 70% chance of getting you there), then you move out. In this case, it would probably involve getting on the interstate. If things change (bridge is out, road construction, and cetera) then you shift strategies, always focusing on the end state. Whatever gets you closer to the End State (while keeping in mind the parameters set for the mission) is a good thing.

I find that focusing on desired outcomes helps me in a way that broken-down goals (i.e. "lose 1 pound a week for 10 weeks") does not. What if you lose 2 pounds one week? What if you lose 1/2 a pound?

"Motion Beats Meditation"

[DmitryDavydov]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

... crossing "Add discussion forums to StevePavlina.com" off my goals list right now...

Steve, that's just a lie. Plenty of people create forums, without writing it down as a goal. You writing it down didn't really do anything. That's why I am saying that goals are overhyped.

You can't live your life without deciding what you want, but sometimes when I read about goals or when I listen to podcasts (a prime example is the one your wife just did about veggie rolls), I can't help myself but to think - boy, that's just a bunch of gross oversimplifications and pop-psych nonsense.

I've actually seen goal-setting in action in corporate environment, back when I used to work and DadeBehring Microscan (in West Sacramento). The results were just pathetic.

I believe that if you do some rigirous testing of people who try goal setting, most of them will probably end up as miserable failures.

[Andrew Brunelle]

While goals may be overhyped, it is nice to have some goals to move your life in the direction you want. For example, I have recently devoted much of my time to writing and exploring myself, but it's not really a goal, it's just something I like to do. Writing has become a real passion for me and I have embraced it fully. It hasn't really taken hard work to stick to writing almost every day and I don't beat myself up if I don't. I am an aspiring comedian and humorous speaker, but I don't beat myself up if I don't come up with a new line or joke every day. I just with I had a stenographer for my thoughts because it isn't always convenient to write some of the thoughts I have down and it takes too much time anyway. But I find when I set goals, I'm constantly referring to whether or not I've accomplished them. So I set one goal. Just one. My goal is to be in tune with nature, to be a loving an caring person, to have inner peace, to be in a relaxed state, all things that coexist with each other. When I make it to this state indefinietely, I'll know I'm capable of anything, so goals will be unnecessary.

[ImOpen]

My belief, contrary to what many say, is that abstract goals are the best. And that you shouldn't even try to articulate them, because this will mean that you will compare you present situation with the wanted one alll the time.
Just try to get a sense of what direction you want to be heading and try to make the journey as fun/exciting/relaxing/whatever as possible.

This was how I did when I started winning at poker. I don't exactly know where I am heading, just "up" and I try not to burn myself out etc. It's working great.

Rigid goals could be good, I think, but they should concentrate on the essential problems in your life. You should only use them when you need to. Otherwise (if you use them too thoroughly ) logic will rule your life and your "logic" and "rational" thoughts are actually just a product of your intuition. (I actually think Pavlina has written about this - shifting from "thinking" to "intuitive thinking").

My only currrent goal, which I will actively (because my intuition would shy away from it) strive for is calling a therapist and talking some things through, which are really bothering me.

[magi13]

Originally Posted by DmitryDavydov

As much as I find Steve to be an interesting fellow, I think that goals are way too overhyped. A lot of very good individuals and very successful companies got to where they are right now without commiting themselves to any rigid goal structure.

My feeling is that goals are way too overhyped. The only benefit of setting goals is thinking about what you REALLY WANT. But you don't need to set goals for that.

Am I alone in my belief that goals are just a fad? Like Atkins Diet?

It depends if the person who makes the goal acts on it or just keep sit for filing.

It's best that if we have a good idea or something to achieve we do it immediately to support our on-going motivated self.

Setting goals just make you concentrate on the thing you wish to accomplish. it's an insurance.

[brandongilbert]

Originally Posted by DmitryDavydov

As much as I find Steve to be an interesting fellow, I think that goals are way too overhyped. A lot of very good individuals and very successful companies got to where they are right now without commiting themselves to any rigid goal structure.

My feeling is that goals are way too overhyped. The only benefit of setting goals is thinking about what you REALLY WANT. But you don't need to set goals for that.

Am I alone in my belief that goals are just a fad? Like Atkins Diet?

You cant hit a target you cant see.

This is what a goal is.

[supertom]

having goals and being proactive is nothing if you dont know your life purpose, your just working on a higher level of social conditioning but its still social conditioning.

[bbdream8]

Originally Posted by DmitryDavydov

As much as I find Steve to be an interesting fellow, I think that goals are way too overhyped. A lot of very good individuals and very successful companies got to where they are right now without commiting themselves to any rigid goal structure.

My feeling is that goals are way too overhyped. The only benefit of setting goals is thinking about what you REALLY WANT. But you don't need to set goals for that.

Am I alone in my belief that goals are just a fad? Like Atkins Diet?

Hi DmitryDavydov,

Goals are not a fad. If you have a written goal, it is more likely that you will achieve it. Alot of highly successful people have goals and dreams that make them who they are today. Their goals may not end up as what they want it to be exactly because maybe times have passed and they may tweak it every now and then, but the goal provide them a with a vision which they can work towards it and this is only possible because they had goals in mind.

Cheers
Vincent
Personal Development Blogger

[dice]

I think long term (10-20 year) goals are ridiculous. Totally takes you out of the moment and sets you up for huge disappointments.

I'm a big fan of combining hourly goals (that are ends-in-themselves) and grande life schemes. I.E. If I'm running, I set a 'goal' to keep going until I hit the next stop sign.

If I don't have a specific aim for the moment I do basically nothing all day.

I've shut down all my goal setting systems that I invented, used, and failed with last year. So I'm running on 'spur of the moment' right now and I don't know if I feel good about it.

So i'm thinking of re-implemented me old binders and journals and weekly reviews.

[ashok]

Death is nature way of telling us that "Life is limited. Before it expires, do something meaningful that you would be proud of". Having a goal is to set direction towards doing something meaningful. I believe goals are not overhyped, because setting goals is something vast majority of people on planet Earth doesn't know of.

And feel free to talk about your goals. It is a great way of reaching out to people who have goals similiar to you. This helps out to learn together and acheive goals faster.

with luv,
Ashok