Work-life separation: does it still exist in this 24/7 and over-networked era?

[TheIronStar]

Just a question from a frustrated and clueless person:

How does one maintain work-life separation in an era wherein guanxi is necessary to even find a remotely genuine job lead and when work advancement often involves building relationships that often border on being more personal than business (e.g. networking, drinks with co-workers, etc.), or involve using time that normally would be allocated as off-work time (e.g. digital tethers like social pressure to use CrackBerries on time that in an earlier era would not have had one tied to the office, volunteering to get one's name around)?

(I'm an American, and the manner in which networking seems to dominate over credentials and the like in one's job search even in my own country is something I find frustratingly Third Worldish; I didn't go around dueling through schools and polishing my skills just so faction after faction can play the "You're nothing unless some friend of mine says you're something" game like something out of junior high school.)

[ncos]

No, everyone expects you to work at home. And all the clueless workerbees buy into this idea, so if you don't act as insane as they do, you get left behind. Being a "good employee" means being so dedicated to your job that you work on your own time. I'm 4 years out of college. I've worked in the software industry and now I'm a high school teacher, it's true in both places. Sometimes I feel like ambition is overrated, just give me a mind numbing job that I can forget about when I get home.

[TheIronStar]

Originally Posted by ncos

No, everyone expects you to work at home. And all the clueless workerbees buy into this idea, so if you don't act as insane as they do, you get left behind. Being a "good employee" means being so dedicated to your job that you work on your own time. I'm 4 years out of college. I've worked in the software industry and now I'm a high school teacher, it's true in both places. Sometimes I feel like ambition is overrated, just give me a mind numbing job that I can forget about when I get home.

I feel your pain; I worked in the software industry too for about five years. I wouldn't say so much it's that ambition is overrated or that jobs necessarily have to be stimulating vs. numbing, but rather that it's costing more and more in general of one's own time/resources. (I've seen an old boss of mine suffer a lot due to his own workaholism, and I do not plan on taking his path.)

[sbdiane]

There is no work/life separation anymore in my life. I personally have managed not to get sucked into jobs that make me work outside the 8 hours I'm paid for. I've never had a crackberry. I was so annoyed by after-hours socializing that I stopped going. I am not a party kind of person and they kept planning loud, obnoxious events. I refused. Now I don't work there anymore so that horrible pressure is gone. I work from home part time now, but I work for myself when I do that.

But my boyfriend manages people in India and China so he is on the phone at home early in the morning and late in the evening and usually on weekends. He works almost 24/7 and those extra hours are in my house. That means my house has become an extension of his company. His stupid company has invaded and taken over my house. I have to be quiet. I can't play my musical instruments because he's in a meeting. I think it's completely out of control this stupid way of living. He's stressed out all the time. He's in fear of being fired. It's not worth it, financially, either. If you count his pay cut a few years ago, the lack of raises for the past 5 years and the extra hours he's putting in, he's now making a quarter of what he used to make.

It's all a way they've managed to squeeze more out of the middle class to make the C-level folks even richer. It's a way they've managed to roll back the standard of working to be similar to how it was when people worked in sweatshops. It makes me angry and I've decided not to play the game anymore. From both ends. I don't work for them and I don't buy their crap anymore.

[Eisho]

Originally Posted by TheIronStar

Just a question from a frustrated and clueless person:

How does one maintain work-life separation in an era wherein guanxi is necessary to even find a remotely genuine job lead and when work advancement often involves building relationships that often border on being more personal than business (e.g. networking, drinks with co-workers, etc.), or involve using time that normally would be allocated as off-work time (e.g. digital tethers like social pressure to use CrackBerries on time that in an earlier era would not have had one tied to the office, volunteering to get one's name around)?

(I'm an American, and the manner in which networking seems to dominate over credentials and the like in one's job search even in my own country is something I find frustratingly Third Worldish; I didn't go around dueling through schools and polishing my skills just so faction after faction can play the "You're nothing unless some friend of mine says you're something" game like something out of junior high school.)

Even if you're not working in the sense of sitting down and producing something I think if you're a professional people will expect you to be thinking about work at the very least. So I don't see any separation nowadays between private and working life for professionals.

Cheers,

Eisho

[PetraPortland]

Originally Posted by TheIronStar

Just a question from a frustrated and clueless person:

How does one maintain work-life separation in an era wherein guanxi is necessary to even find a remotely genuine job lead and when work advancement often involves building relationships that often border on being more personal than business.

It is a thought provoking point you bring up. I hear you... For me there is no work-life separation. I work for myself & those I socialise with are my business partners & other small business owners. I do think the most glorified addiction is working too much. I have fallen into this trap myself.

[funchy]

I'd say it really depends. There's as much separation as you want there to be. It depends on the career path you chose, your ambition, and the workplace environment at your specific job.

You yourself have to draw these boundaries. If you're not ok with phone calls at home, do not allow the employer to call you at home. If you are too nice, they take advantage and then you're taking business calls when away on a family vacation.

Networking is *not* about getting one person to tell her friend you're good enough. It's about making connections. You might even be networking right now if it turns out a friend you make from this forum needs the goods/services your employer sells.

The bigger question is the work-life separation. If you're doing a job you really love, life is no longer a black-and-white situation where you're working 9-5 and you are not working past 5. It's more like you're always looking forward to the next assignment and are enjoying brainstorming new ideas or solutions.

I am very lucky to be on the Board of Directors of a 501c3 non-profit. I don't get paid for it, but it's something I LOVE doing. I might be out having a fun day shopping, but if I bump into someone who might be interested in what we do, I chat with them about it. All my friends know what I do. I invite my friends to the non-profit's parties and some of the non-profits members also turn into friends.

[Brutha]

I think that separation is the wrong goal.
The goal should be that work becomes life.

But apart from that:
A speech from Jeff Hawkins who achieved great things in multiple field (which not many people do these days) where he talks about his approach to to balance his life: Stanford's Entrepreneurship Corner: Jeff Hawkins, Handspring - Work/Life Balance

But what does he know? He only created a company that lead the field of handheld computers and wrote a breakthrough book about neuroscience on the side.

[silicon toad2000]

I think work life balance is a product of capitalism. Before the whole industrial revolution and all that, work was the process of contributing to society but society was life. The contribution was shared among the society and all of the benefits were realised by all of the society.
Greed by both parties has given rise to the need to separate work and life. The industrialist decides that the economic benefits resulting from your input will not all be passed back to the society (workforce) and thus society (workforce) has decided not to contribute any more than is absolutely neccesary.
I think a basic truth in life is that income received is proportional to the amount of your life you give up to contribute. There are skews off this track from volunteer work and financial decisions we all make. Those aside the more time you put in, the more benefit you have the ability to receive.

Does work life separation exist? The hardarse in me says it's called retirement. Aside from that, the beauty about electronic devices is that they have an off switch. The work/life separation exists, it's a choice. Bluring those lines is not inevitable, it's a choice we all make.

We recently had a group finance manager leave the company after having some epiphany that there are more important things in life than work. My comment to her was that there are enough discussion around the place about work/life balance, hours and income that it's a decision that most people would make early in their career. Having that kind of insight at that level in your career suggests that one has been rather blind while taking the journey through the pay grades.

[ns123]

Originally Posted by silicon toad2000

We recently had a group finance manager leave the company after having some epiphany that there are more important things in life than work. My comment to her was that there are enough discussion around the place about work/life balance, hours and income that it's a decision that most people would make early in their career. Having that kind of insight at that level in your career suggests that one has been rather blind while taking the journey through the pay grades.

Wow, that's harsh. People's lives change, their priorities change, maybe she realized that at that moment in her life, work was not as important than life. Maybe before that stage, it was. Maybe something happened in her life changed her perspective. It happens.

Your reply seems to suggest that if she didn't realize that early in her career, she must be blind (ie, stupid). But what if early in her career, that was ok? That career was the most important thing, and now, things shifted, and it's no longer.

If some one told me this, it would doubly reinforce that the decision to leave is a good one. Meaning, I would want to get away from that person, as soon as possible.

[TheIronStar]

Originally Posted by Brutha

I think that separation is the wrong goal.
The goal should be that work becomes life.

If you want to be on the clock 24/7, that's your business. But I don't believe that wanting to have time of my own, and to not have the use of my off-work time and significant choice of social network use decided for me, and other such matters necessarily are a fundamentally wrongheaded goal.

Originally Posted by sbdiane

It makes me angry and I've decided not to play the game anymore. From both ends. I don't work for them and I don't buy their crap anymore.

If by "don't buy their crap anymore" means that you've abandoned the tactic of working to sustain mere consumerism, I suppose that's a noble goal. But generating income via work isn't something one might write off that abruptly, however--some expenditures (e.g. health care) aren't matters of mere consumerism.

Originally Posted by silicon toad2000

Does work life separation exist? The hardarse in me says it's called retirement. Aside from that, the beauty about electronic devices is that they have an off switch. The work/life separation exists, it's a choice. Bluring those lines is not inevitable, it's a choice we all make.

Are you stating that before the hours-creep of recent times, everyone was tethered to the workplace 24/7 until they retired?

As far as electronic devices go, this is much more a cultural than technological issue. The electronic devices (e.g. BlackBerries, I-Phones, etc.) are merely a tool. Encroachment of office life onto one's personal time can also come via entirely non-electronic forms of pressure (e.g. extreme peer pressure in the workplace for de-rigueur drinking and socializing with workmates in some parts of the world, or to never to leave the office before other specific individuals).

[Brutha]

If you want to be on the clock 24/7, that's your business. But I don't believe that wanting to have time of my own, and to not have the use of my off-work time and significant choice of social network use decided for me, and other such matters necessarily are a fundamentally wrongheaded goal.

The point is more or less that you should also decide how you spent the time you work for yourself.

The model according to which there some time where you work at a corporations where your work sucks because everything is decided by someone else and there a seperate amount of time that you can enjoy because you can structure it is bad.
I don't think that those rules are worth living with.

[funchy]

Originally Posted by silicon toad2000

I think work life balance is a product of capitalism. Before the whole industrial revolution and all that, work was the process of contributing to society but society was life. The contribution was shared among the society and all of the benefits were realised by all of the society.

Capitalism existed since the dawn of time... for as long as we've had money. I'm sorry but I have to disagree that things suddenly changed with the industrial revolution. If anything we have more free time and benefits now than ever. If this was 1808 instead of 2008, you could work 12 hour days, no paid time off, no benefits, and no child labor protection.

An example of this still going on is the Amish: they shun most technology and they work from sun-up to sun-down. They don't worry about work-life separation because they do nothing but work.

Communism tried to create a new system, but so far it's proven unsustainable.

[silicon toad2000]

Originally Posted by ns123

Wow, that's harsh.

I don't think it's harsh, I think it's realistic. I wouldn't say that someone climbing the pay grades without realising the sacrifice required was stuipid, but definately blind. I might expect this wort of behaviour from a junior just moved into a role with higher pay and more responsibility, but definately not from a senior at that level. I expect more from senior managers.

Originally Posted by TheIronStar

Are you stating that before the hours-creep of recent times, everyone was tethered to the workplace 24/7 until they retired?

No I meant since the recent hours creep everyone is tethered to the workplace 24/7

Funchy good point. I definately agree with the amish comment. I don't know any amish, but from what I understand is they want to work for the improvement of their society. The other key thing is that they would all benefit equally from that work.