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Old 08-10-2008, 12:23 PM
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Hello, all - I've popped in to seek some advice.

Background: I recently finished university. It has been a long time coming - and I never really enjoyed it or wanted to do it. For the past year or so I've put my business (as an indie game developer) on-hold while I finish off my degree. But I've also used it to justify avoiding other things - trying to be socially outgoing, trying to get up early, trying to maintain a productive environment. I figured it would all sort itself out (quickly and painlessly, too) when uni was over.

I think it's safe to say, now in hindsight, that this was a bad plan. Ironically - within days of my completion being confirmed - I heard a quote from some (not Steve) personal development guru (paraphrased here): "People erroneously think that, if they reach some goal or objective, all of their problems will be solved".

The thing is - I have done these things to various extents in the past and done well. In particular - I could write software like a goddamn ninja (I even did it while at university - although my last real programming assignment was a little over 2 months ago, now). But at the moment, I am still far below what I would consider my "baseline".


So, the particular problem I am dealing with at the moment: I am at my computer - I open up my development environment (or try to do anything productive, really) and then *bam* - I feel this... "feeling" - it's almost like being suddenly sleepy. I feel "urgh" and an urge to hit the close button and go and do something else (usually TV or video gaming). And, of course, nothing gets done. This has gone on for a week or two now. Almost nothing gets crossed off my todo list.

Before anyone says "procrastination" - I've checked the article (Overcoming Procrastination by Steve Pavlina) and I've tried all of these things. The plan I have made for my project (a while before I finished uni) even specifically uses timeboxing and anti-perfectionism. But I still can't shake this urge to stop, the moment I try and start work.


My question now, is: What is wrong? What has changed? Why can't I work at my "baseline"? How do I get back to where I was a year ago?


Thank you,
- Andrew
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Old 08-10-2008, 02:46 PM
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Ugh, I think I have the same thing. I think it's energy level. I can't muster up the energy to do anything very productive. I've not come up with a solution, yet. I'm subscribing to this thread, though.
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Old 08-10-2008, 07:37 PM
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Sounds like me when I had to do homework from the teachers at school.

I'd sit there and procrastinate like crazy. Eventually there would be a point where I had to start it, otherwise it wouldn't get done. When I'd started it I'd actually find I was enjoying it.

Another thing, tidying up my room. Starting it was hard - it's a boring chore, who likes to do that sort of thing?! But then, once doing it and seeing progress, it's enjoyable.

It is self-discipline. It is what gets you started. Telling yourself "I'm going to do this", and then doing it. All the people that will tell you it is like a muscle, are pretty much correct. If you go and do as many press ups as you can, to failure, you'll have a hard time repeating that again later in the day, or even tomorrow. But if you slowly build up, the same number will soon be possible to repeat again and again.

Sit down and commit to doing just 15 minutes. No B.S. No browsing. Set a VERY clearly defined outcome that will take you about 10mins to complete, and do it.

Maybe you aren't at that point yet. Maybe you need to do some more prep. work. Commit to doing 10mins of that.

As an example, a big organisational issue is my personal filing. I have a shoe box, my Inbox, completely full of post, papers, mementos, etc, from the last 10 months!!! The important stuff has been dealt with, but every time I find some unsorted paperwork, it gets dropped in. I don't particularly enjoy how long it takes to sort it. But little by little it's getting done. The other day I had 10mins, which I used to pull out all of the envelopes and scrap paper. Now that pile is no where near as daunting, because I threw 1/5th of it away.

This quote comes to mind:

"Inspiration is for amateurs; the rest of us just show up and get to work"

Seems often misunderstood, but it's basically saying, don't wait for inspiration - get off your arse and work. All great artists put in their dues.
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Old 08-11-2008, 06:58 AM
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A running start can make you get past that initial resistance. But the feeling, urge to just do anything else, doesn't go away. Even if you have the environment set up when you sit down and just start writing. That feeling is still there for a minute or two before you're warmed up and enjoy working.

This never happened before I learned programming properly. Somehow when I learned enough programming to be efficient, I developed some kind of resistance to loving it.

I have plenty of inspiration, I love the project and all that, I know exactly what to do. I have no idea where this resistance comes from.
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Last edited by Trezker; 08-11-2008 at 07:01 AM.
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Old 08-11-2008, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trezker View Post
I have plenty of inspiration, I love the project and all that, I know exactly what to do. I have no idea where this resistance comes from.
I've found several times that when I know exactly how to do something, my brain thinks it is already done and doesn't want to 'do it again'. Maybe you're planning out too much.

Other possibilities: other problems in other areas of your life? a reason why you don't (consciously or unconsciously) want to finish it? (maybe you'll find you can't get your vision across, or maybe you'll just find that it's just another ordinary project?) for the original poster: maybe you're just bored with it? sometimes you just get given some boring work that has to be done.


Wolverine
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Old 08-11-2008, 01:04 PM
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Try setting up a rewards system for yourself. Stick with it for a week and you can "retrain" yourself. If you are honest and play fair with yourself, it works!
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Old 08-11-2008, 01:09 PM
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Is programming something you really want to do at this point in your life?
If not, perhaps you want to go out and do something that actually inspires you?
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Old 08-11-2008, 01:13 PM
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Take a complete break and indulge yourself fully. Get your body and mind into a more relaxed place and then start again from the beginning. You have no doubt used a tremendous amount of energy completing your degree, moreso if that wasn't what you truly wanted to do in the first place. No-one's body or mind is designed to work indefinitely. Your lack of concentration is a message from you to you. You are telling yourself that you need a rest. Unless it is absolutely urgent I suggest you listen to yourself and take a complete break. Tiredness is like fear, hunger, thirst, sexual desire...completely natural and something that you experience instinctively. How long would you ignore hunger pangs before you ate?

Cheers,

Eisho
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Old 08-11-2008, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by wolverine View Post
I've found several times that when I know exactly how to do something, my brain thinks it is already done and doesn't want to 'do it again'. Maybe you're planning out too much.

Other possibilities: other problems in other areas of your life? a reason why you don't (consciously or unconsciously) want to finish it? (maybe you'll find you can't get your vision across, or maybe you'll just find that it's just another ordinary project?) for the original poster: maybe you're just bored with it? sometimes you just get given some boring work that has to be done.


Wolverine
I don't really plan at all. I have noted some things I can and need to do next. The project is endless but I only decide the next few steps ahead. It's like taking on the project to discover the whole world and every day decide where to go next. But every day it's really hard to get going. Even though every day ends up being a wonderful experience.
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Old 08-11-2008, 05:02 PM
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I second the suggestion to take a break. Give yourself full permission to do only what you want to do most for a period of time—a week, two weeks, a month, two months, six months—and enjoy it. If all you want to do for that break is sleep, play computer games, and watch TV, indulge yourself. Really. If you give yourself a long enough break, you may find that you're naturally attracted to programming before your break is over. And if not, you may discover something you want to do even more.
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Old 08-11-2008, 05:44 PM
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What if you don't know what you want to do? What if you spend a few days doing lazy activities like playing games, watching TV, and browsing forums, and you still feel empty and need to do something more, yet you resist getting started still?

Not to hijack, but that's how I often feel. It's kind of a horrible limbo between total laziness and productivity, where you really want to be productive but just can't bring yourself to do it, yet doing nothing drives you to the brink of insanity.
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Old 08-11-2008, 08:58 PM
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To me, it is simple, you want to force yourself to do something you do not want to do and you do not enjoy.
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Old 08-12-2008, 12:39 AM
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I, too, suffer from this. Unfortunately, I can't say I've a degree to fall back on. I was laid of 6 months ago, from an industry I didn't really like although learned from. Now, I'm a little lost about what to do with myself. Nothing I do seems to be the 'right' fit. Example, while doing task X, I'm thinking about tasks S, Y, Z, R, T, etc.

When I try to unwind, either I find myself feeling guilty for wasting time on things that don't really matter, or I don't ever get out of this thinking/planning phase. Indecision and Procrastination, Very irritating.

However, I remember vaguely how it felt to get something out of the way, and realizing that it opened new possibilities when I did. Makes me think of the Law of Substitution. If you typically think about 10-30 things, and you resolve or change a handful of them. Then by nature, lower ones will rise to take their place if not change or fall off all together.

Something to think about.

Also, Looking for like minded individuals to talk with. Email or IM me

mrthinktank@aol.com
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Old 08-12-2008, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
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To me, it is simple, you want to force yourself to do something you do not want to do and you do not enjoy.
Not true. I love coding and I enjoy it very much, nothing gives me as much joy as solving problems and seeing a project grow. I think the problem is that something else isn't satisfied. There's something else I need to do, maybe something as simple as earning money.

The labour market is truly depressing though. Almost all ads require people with "good people skills", "positive and ambitious" and so on. I really feel sick when companies use those cliché lines. It's painful to look for anything that doesn't use such lines, and among those only a tiny fraction offers a job that's even slightly interesting.
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Old 08-12-2008, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pianoperformer View Post
What if you don't know what you want to do? What if you spend a few days doing lazy activities like playing games, watching TV, and browsing forums, and you still feel empty and need to do something more, yet you resist getting started still?

Not to hijack, but that's how I often feel. It's kind of a horrible limbo between total laziness and productivity, where you really want to be productive but just can't bring yourself to do it, yet doing nothing drives you to the brink of insanity.
You need a spark of inspiration. Feed yourself a diet of new things, new ideas, new concepts. You don't have to 'do' anything, just be open to new ideas. Go for a walk, somewhere you don't usually go and allow your mind to be open to the experience and to whatever thoughts you have. This isn't necessarily a quick-fix program (though it could be), but you need to find in yourself what you are hungry for. It's your passion you need to find. Follow your bliss.

Cheers,

Eisho
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Old 08-12-2008, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by pianoperformer View Post
What if you don't know what you want to do? What if you spend a few days doing lazy activities like playing games, watching TV, and browsing forums, and you still feel empty and need to do something more, yet you resist getting started still?
When I experienced that - spending days doing "lazy" activities, and still not wanting to do something productive - it was often because I did not allow myself to fully enjoy the "lazy" activities. Yes, I would have a good time, but lurking in the back of my mind, sucking some of the fun out of the experience, was the nagging belief that I should be doing something more productive or shouldn't be wasting time. That added a component of guilt that prevented the "lazy" activities from serving their purpose. (I put lazy in quotes because I believe that those kinds of activities serve a useful purpose, too, if you let them. What you call lazy, I call recharging.)

Another trap I sometimes fall into goes something like this: I want to go play/work in the yard/garden, and the main garden needs to be weeded, so I lock myself into thinking that if I go outside, I have to weed. If I do that, I resist going outside at all; it simply doesn't work for me. I have to give myself the freedom to step outside and do whatever appeals most in that moment.

This is one of the other possibilities—if you are able to allow yourself to spend time playing games, watching TV, and browsing the internet guilt free and with full enjoyment, and you still resist doing productive things after several days, it's time to look at what's in your life that's not working. Is there a commit you've made that no longer resonates with you? Is there a person you interact with who is draining your energy? Are you trying to make yourself do something that you're doing because you think you should (or your parents, society, your friends, or some person in authority thinks you should), not because you want to? Is there something that your heart is calling you to do that you refuse to listen to?

Last edited by Kaspian; 08-12-2008 at 02:30 PM. Reason: clarity
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Old 08-12-2008, 03:12 PM
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Thank you for the responses.

I described my problem to a very trusted friend (and fellow developer). He almost immediately said "burnout".

This doesn't feel like the last time I was burnt out - that was very intense. This feels more "low level". Of course, back then I didn't really have the opportunity for a break. Whereas now I do.

It seems that the bulk of advice coming in is to take a break. That was also what my friend said. And so that's what I'll do. On that note, I have an additional question: How long should I take a break for? How do you tell when to stop?



To those suggesting that I might not truly enjoy programming (and/or game development, etc): I considered this possibility very carefully. Particularly because I'm biased by some rather large "sunk costs". I'm pretty sure I still love it. My last non-uni programming effort was about a month and a half ago and had a great time. But then "finishing uni" is a fairly significant upheaval in the mean time.
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Old 08-12-2008, 07:11 PM
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How long should I take a break for? How do you tell when to stop?
You are the best judge of how long your break should be, though how long you need will depend on how burned out you are and how restorative your break is. You could start with a week and go from there. Maybe you'll need two; maybe you'll need two months. You'll know you're ready to program again when you look forward to sitting down in front of the computer to write code.
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Old 08-13-2008, 03:36 AM
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Quote:
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It seems that the bulk of advice coming in is to take a break. That was also what my friend said. And so that's what I'll do. On that note, I have an additional question: How long should I take a break for? How do you tell when to stop?
As Kaspian says, you're the only one who can decide that.

As a follow up, I would like to add the suggestion that once you're sorted out you purposely schedule regular breaks throughout the year regardless of whether you feel you need them at that point or not. I have a very busy lifestyle but every 2-3 months I take a week off. Even if I don't go anywhere, I just enjoy sitting around, watching DVDs, sleeping as and when I want, getting a massage, having a few drinks...basically doing whatever I feel like doing. The point is though, these breaks are regular and I take them irrespective of whether I feel I'm going to burnout or not.

Rest is something that is significantly overlooked in the field of PD. Pursuing goals is great, but you need to balance things out for yourself.

Cheers,

Eisho
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Old 08-13-2008, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolverine View Post
I've found several times that when I know exactly how to do something, my brain thinks it is already done and doesn't want to 'do it again'. Maybe you're planning out too much.

Other possibilities: other problems in other areas of your life? a reason why you don't (consciously or unconsciously) want to finish it? (maybe you'll find you can't get your vision across, or maybe you'll just find that it's just another ordinary project?) for the original poster: maybe you're just bored with it? sometimes you just get given some boring work that has to be done.


Wolverine
I have something similar, as soon as I know how to do a project it becomes a chore to do it, there is no challange, it is easy, just the boring routine of going through with it.

For example, Uni papers. I pick a very challenging and interesting topic, due the entire research, read through loads of material and finally create bulletpoints for the entire paper. That is it, I have totally mastered the topic, I know exactly what to write, I can hold lectures and presentation on the topic (which I do, since they go hand in hand with writing papers), then I realise that I need to put it on paper and becomes a boring chores. It is like going through the book, that you just read, one more time.

Unfortunately, I have no idea how to cure it.
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Old 08-13-2008, 02:43 PM
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I've had this same feeling many times before and ususally I can trace this resistance back to incongruent (or non-existant) objectives.

What I mean by that is...do you ENJOY programming? You may be good at it, but do you really ENJOY it?

Try sitting down for an hour and writing out a picture of your ideal day - what would you be doing? Would you be programming? What project would you be working on? What problem would you be solving with your skills?

Chances are you're subconscious mind is fighting back when you sit down at your keyboard because it doesn't "buy-in" to what you are working on - that could have to do with programming in general or the specific way you are doing it (no project in mind, project that is not in alignment with your core beliefs, etc...)

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Old 08-13-2008, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Russell View Post
Thank you for the responses.

I described my problem to a very trusted friend (and fellow developer). He almost immediately said "burnout".
I question the burnout explanation. It feels right to you because you are escaping the problem and emotional relief results from that.

Procrastination is a symptom of a deeper problem. Procrastination isn't your problem, it's a symptom. I highly recommend this article: Procrastination

And these two:
Why Distractions Feel So Damn Good
Do You Recognize These 3 Warning Signs of Procrastination?
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