what if to do what I love I must do things I don't love?

[songwriter]

I'm a musician. I love playing music, composing, singing, anything like that.
But I hate recording music or playing to an audience. I don't mean I suffer, but I don't enjoy at all.

"Do what you love and money will follow" then I will do music that never would be heard.. (what I love to do) but how money is going to follow then?

[AlexG]

I think most people miss the key.

You must do what you love, yes but in doing so you must provide value to others.

Right now you seem to be missing the second part. Figure out how you can provide value (entertainment, teach, write songs) to others and then money will follow.

[songwriter]

Originally Posted by AlexG

I think most people miss the key.

You must do what you love, yes but in doing so you must provide value to others.

Right now you seem to be missing the second part. Figure out how you can provide value (entertainment, teach, write songs) to others and then money will follow.

Yes, but you stop loving it... that's the problem. Once I provide value to others I don't love it even if I get money, but it is the only way, I know.

[Calimero]

Originally Posted by songwriter

I'm a musician. I love playing music, composing, singing, anything like that.
But I hate recording music or playing to an audience. I don't mean I suffer, but I don't enjoy at all.

"Do what you love and money will follow" then I will do music that never would be heard.. (what I love to do) but how money is going to follow then?

What is it that makes it impossible to enjoy to play your music for an audience or recording music? If you don't suffer it is not that bad to do it....but what could you add to make it enjoyable?

You could try to sell just your lyrics and what you composed to other people that would like to perform on stage or record music but don't have the inspiration to write something themselves?

[Calimero]

Originally Posted by songwriter

Yes, but you stop loving it... that's the problem. Once I provide value to others I don't love it even if I get money, but it is the only way, I know.

So if someone enjoys your music as audience and wants to pay for it,it is not enjoyable for you anymore?

[Lisa Smiles]

I think you have some self-sabotaging believes at work behind the scenes.

Your love of music, if an honest love, is unconditional. Making it, sharing it and earning from it are all part of your gift.

Ask yourself, "What do I believe about recording music that makes it unenjoyable?"

Do this for each area you currently are not enjoying.

My guess is it's not about your love of music.

[songwriter]

Originally Posted by Calimero

What is it that makes it impossible to enjoy to play your music for an audience or recording music? If you don't suffer it is not that bad to do it....but what could you add to make it enjoyable?

You could try to sell just your lyrics and what you composed to other people that would like to perform on stage or record music but don't have the inspiration to write something themselves?

I've been thinking about your first question some minutes ago and I have no answer.

Yes, you mean being a composer not a composer-performer. Well I could try and let's see how I feel. But that has never been my dream. I must try anyway.

[songwriter]

Originally Posted by Calimero

So if someone enjoys your music as audience and wants to pay for it,it is not enjoyable for you anymore?

No. It's never enjoyable for me, whether I get money or not.

[songwriter]

Originally Posted by Lisa Smiles

I think you have some self-sabotaging believes at work behind the scenes.

Your love of music, if an honest love, is unconditional. Making it, sharing it and earning from it are all part of your gift.

Ask yourself, "What do I believe about recording music that makes it unenjoyable?"

Do this for each area you currently are not enjoying.

My guess is it's not about your love of music.

Yeah, I believe it's some kind of self-sabotage that I can't see.
Well, I believe recording music is very boring. As boring as any other job. Kind of "where is your soul when you're working?".
So playing it live to people.
mmm.... I must search the way it's not boring for me.... even if it's not the "normal way" of recording or performing, maybe.
I think I don't feel free cause there's a guideline to follow, that's it. When you play at home you can stop and start and change, etc. But when you record or play live you just follow something you remind, with no room to other things.

[Calimero]

Originally Posted by songwriter

I've been thinking about your first question some minutes ago and I have no answer.

Yes, you mean being a composer not a composer-performer. Well I could try and let's see how I feel. But that has never been my dream. I must try anyway.

Can you describe what your dream is exactly like?
If it is not just composer, but composer performer....how do you see yourself in that dream.
And where is the difference with how you experience it now?

Before trying to just stick to being a composer, try to find an answer on what Lisa Smiles says.

I love playing music myself. I play the fiddle or Violin I am not sure for the right word in English.
Sometimes I compose myself. But it was never a dream of me to get on stage or record something at all. I just love to play live for myself and the ones at home or the neighbors that can hear me when all windows are open in summer time.
So I never wanted to do that to earn money with it. For me it is just another way to empty my head....I can chose...play violin....practice some yoga...I enjoy them as they give me let call me it some balance or serenity but not because I would ever want to make money with it.

But if it is your dream to be performer for an audience you have to find what is blocking you from doing so and enjoying it.

[Calimero]

Originally Posted by songwriter

Y
I think I don't feel free cause there's a guideline to follow, that's it. When you play at home you can stop and start and change, etc. But when you record or play live you just follow something you remind, with no room to other things.

It depends on the kind of music you play.
In many genres people do some "jamming" live on stage improvisation.
If that is your style why would you not do so.

And you could entertain people very much doing something that other artists don't do at all.
Many stick to a "program".
But what if you go random. It could be even fun.
I can imagine...you start to sing a song....and suddenly you want to change....and you just say to the audience....well I suddenly felt bored and I actually want to sing this one....and there you go you sing that other song....
It would be your style and it could be your success

[songwriter]

Originally Posted by Calimero

Can you describe what your dream is exactly like?
If it is not just composer, but composer performer....how do you see yourself in that dream.
And where is the difference with how you experience it now?

Before trying to just stick to being a composer, try to find an answer on what Lisa Smiles says.

I love playing music myself. I play the fiddle or Violin I am not sure for the right word in English.
Sometimes I compose myself. But it was never a dream of me to get on stage or record something at all. I just love to play live for myself and the ones at home or the neighbors that can hear me when all windows are open in summer time.
So I never wanted to do that to earn money with it. For me it is just another way to empty my head....I can chose...play violin....practice some yoga...I enjoy them as they give me let call me it some balance or serenity but not because I would ever want to make money with it.

But if it is your dream to be performer for an audience you have to find what is blocking you from doing so and enjoying it.

My dream is the typical rock and roll dream... you compose songs, you sing, you play, you record and make you gigs. But once I started being there I don't like it when it comes true.
Yes, there's has to be something weird somewhere in this that I can't see.

[Calimero]

Originally Posted by songwriter

My dream is the typical rock and roll dream... you compose songs, you sing, you play, you record and make you gigs. But once I started being there I don't like it when it comes true.
Yes, there's has to be something weird somewhere in this that I can't see.

K. I think I saw another topic of you. You were talking about "humble".
Maybe to desire to be humble isn't just compatible to the desire to enjoy to be a real rock and roll star.

You need some guts to be a rock and roll star, to enjoy the reactions of the audience.

Could it be there?

Your interpretation of humble disturbing your dream to come true?

[songwriter]

Originally Posted by Calimero

It depends on the kind of music you play.
In many genres people do some "jamming" live on stage improvisation.
If that is your style why would you not do so.

And you could entertain people very much doing something that other artists don't do at all.
Many stick to a "program".
But what if you go random. It could be even fun.
I can imagine...you start to sing a song....and suddenly you want to change....and you just say to the audience....well I suddenly felt bored and I actually want to sing this one....and there you go you sing that other song....
It would be your style and it could be your success

I'm starting to like what you say. Start playing with no plan. And changing from songs to song at your will. I don't remember anyone doing that ? I don't have a clue of how it would be received. I can try, great idea, thank you very much.

I think I've got to forget about "what's usual" of what has been done. And seeing performing and recording in a totally personal way, not like the artists I like the most do. They never followed what was usual in their times anyway, so I guess I can't follow them either.

[songwriter]

Originally Posted by Calimero

K. I think I saw another topic of you. You were talking about "humble".
Maybe to desire to be humble isn't just compatible to the desire to enjoy to be a real rock and roll star.

You need some guts to be a rock and roll star, to enjoy the reactions of the audience.

Could it be there?

Your interpretation of humble disturbing your dream to come true?

Well, I think no rock and roll star is humble. How are you gonna be humble and being the focus of 100,000 people during 2 hours? Or to dare to try to be very good?.
Actually they're kind of preachy in their lyrics, like PD experts , you know.
But that's bad for personal relationships.

[Calimero]

Originally Posted by songwriter

Well, I think no rock and roll star is humble. How are you gonna be humble and being the focus of 100,000 people during 2 hours? Or to dare to try to be very good?.
Actually they're kind of preachy in their lyrics, like PD experts , you know.
But that's bad for personal relationships.

I don't experience Steve or other PD experts as preachy, even many songwriters don't sound preachy to me at all. Many of them sound inspiring.
So it is very personal how people experience other people.
And there is nothing wrong with being self confident,know what you want and go for it. If others are not ready, you don't have to wait till they are ready.
Play for those who will love it. And enjoy the fact that other might enjoy your music.
Erin probably doesn't experience Steve as being preachy neither.

So if being humble is not who you are who you want to be don't...and go for your music.
Find out what fits the best to you. What would make you most happy....that the whole world sees you as a humble person?
Or rather to experience how it is to feel great on stage and give the best of your own style of performing for an audience that is ready for it?

[songwriter]

I choose the stage even sacrificing being humble, it's who I am.
No, not Erin, not me or you, but you know what I mean.
I've thought about it and I don't think that this is what doesn't let me enjoy, but boredom, the usual pattern for playing live and recording.

Well, when I'm alone I never had a guideline like... Ok, 1 this song 2 this song... no I go changing I play what I feel it's right, so singing, I don't know what I'm gonna sing next...

In concerts that would be playing with no plan as we said.
And in recording it's harder to guess, it would like "I'm gonna record, but don't know what" or so.

Very great help from you.

[lasti]

Hi songwriter

Maybe you could see these parts of your work in a different light: It's not always the same. Every time it's a new experience. Every time you can make new experiments with your work:

You do always have a different audience. See how you can catch their attention, be spontaneous, react to them! On stage you're always like an actor. Can you make your audience scream? Can you make them cry?

When you're recording, every song is different, too, and needs another treatment. You have to figure out what your song needs. Experiment while recording.
And when you're a rock star you'll have a producer who does much of the "boring" recording part, anyway.

[uberinquisitive]

Originally Posted by songwriter

But I hate recording music or playing to an audience. I don't mean I suffer, but I don't enjoy at all.

I empathize. I am a writer, but I dislike writing! As Dorothy Parker once said, "I don't like to write, but I like what I wrote."

Despite my dislike of writing, I've managed to be extremely prolific in a short time. Basically, I figured out the root cause of the dislike.

I dislike writing because: it's boring, it's work.
Why is it boring and work-like? Because I feel uncomfortable doing in.
Why do I feel uncomfy? Because I'm afraid.
Afraid of what? That it's not good enough.

Bingo.

Once I figured out that I had extreme perfectionism, fear of being judged as not good enough - then I was able to work on those issues.

I also have a fear of failure and a fear of success. I fear that once I achieve my goals, it won't be as cool I thought it would be. I'm filled with fear!

But - I just do it. Even if it's hard and uncomfy. I just do it, and it never gets easier. But the rewards get sweeter.

[Rodni Demental]

Self-sabotaging beliefs behind the scenes? Not at all. I completely understand this guy as I am also a musician. Making music is everything to me, I love how I can create something, I love how others can listen and enjoy what I create.

But God would I do anything to NOT have to record my works! It's such a stressful task trying to perfect what you hear in your head. I understand how you feel about this, but you need to realise that this shouldn't get in your way.

I'm sure if we share this viewpoint about certain parts of making music, then you also know the thrill or feelings of success when you actually finish a song and it is able to be listened by others to enjoy. It's about your personal enjoyment of creating, and the satisfaction it may bring to others. I don't normally like the attitude I'm about to suggest for you, but you really do need to get over this middle section of the process and allow the rest of it to fuel your passion.

In fact, writing this makes me think I should take my own advice, get off my ass and record something right now.

[songwriter]

Originally Posted by lasti

Hi songwriter

Maybe you could see these parts of your work in a different light: It's not always the same. Every time it's a new experience. Every time you can make new experiments with your work:

You do always have a different audience. See how you can catch their attention, be spontaneous, react to them! On stage you're always like an actor. Can you make your audience scream? Can you make them cry?

When you're recording, every song is different, too, and needs another treatment. You have to figure out what your song needs. Experiment while recording.
And when you're a rock star you'll have a producer who does much of the "boring" recording part, anyway.

Hey, thank you for your help. But it is more what others say... Yes I've made some scream and some cry, but guess what? It didn't make happy!.
I think it's my boredom with following a schedule. If I had to see it in a scientifically way, for the MBTI I'm much more a J than a P, so I hate plans and I love to improvise. Why should I do a planned concert? Maybe because most musician do this? Maybe they don't enjoy it either... or they're more J than P. Same with recording.

[songwriter]

Originally Posted by uberinquisitive

I empathize. I am a writer, but I dislike writing! As Dorothy Parker once said, "I don't like to write, but I like what I wrote."

Despite my dislike of writing, I've managed to be extremely prolific in a short time. Basically, I figured out the root cause of the dislike.

I dislike writing because: it's boring, it's work.
Why is it boring and work-like? Because I feel uncomfortable doing in.
Why do I feel uncomfy? Because I'm afraid.
Afraid of what? That it's not good enough.

Bingo.

Once I figured out that I had extreme perfectionism, fear of being judged as not good enough - then I was able to work on those issues.

I also have a fear of failure and a fear of success. I fear that once I achieve my goals, it won't be as cool I thought it would be. I'm filled with fear!

But - I just do it. Even if it's hard and uncomfy. I just do it, and it never gets easier. But the rewards get sweeter.

you may have a point, we all have that perfectionistism fear one way or another, but I think that was much in me when I started... now I'm used to all kind of comments, from the best ones to the bad ones, like everyone should get used to (like Steve, for instance). But this is always there anyway too.

[songwriter]

Originally Posted by Rodni Demental

Self-sabotaging beliefs behind the scenes? Not at all. I completely understand this guy as I am also a musician. Making music is everything to me, I love how I can create something, I love how others can listen and enjoy what I create.

But God would I do anything to NOT have to record my works! It's such a stressful task trying to perfect what you hear in your head. I understand how you feel about this, but you need to realise that this shouldn't get in your way.

I'm sure if we share this viewpoint about certain parts of making music, then you also know the thrill or feelings of success when you actually finish a song and it is able to be listened by others to enjoy. It's about your personal enjoyment of creating, and the satisfaction it may bring to others. I don't normally like the attitude I'm about to suggest for you, but you really do need to get over this middle section of the process and allow the rest of it to fuel your passion.

In fact, writing this makes me think I should take my own advice, get off my ass and record something right now.

yes, and I should be recording instead being here... lol... Well sometimes I've stopped composing and I've planned to focus in recording, that can't be bad too. Well, that's crap for me. I forgot the part I sure love and enjoy... let's see what I can do with the other part, but how the heck I'm not doing what I already love? (as Steve kind of says), it's silly.

[uberinquisitive]

Maybe I have limiting beliefs - but I don't think every aspect of "doing what you love" is supposed to be fun.

For example - people who love being Silicon Valley entrepreneurs - maybe they hate pitching to venture capitalists for funding, but they love running the business and bringing new software to the marketplace.

Olympic athletes - maybe they hate the early morning training sessions, but they love going to competitions. And if they want to qualify for competitions, they have to train.

In the same way, if we want to make a living as artists - we have to put our work out into the marketplace. It's just the small price we pay to live out our dreams.

[Mags]

Songwriter, you know when you're at a party and someone has a guitar and they're just doing their own thing, sometimes in the corner by themselves, other times a group gathers, but there's no expectation of a set programme to follow, it's just all relaxed and goes with the flow and mood of the musician and the group... have you ever been the person with the guitar in this kind of situation? If you've never experienced this before, do you think you could enjoy this more intimate relaxed setting?

If this type of scenario speaks to you, maybe you could get someone to record you (just audio, or video as well) doing this with a group of your friends, and you could start to release these recordings (kind of like official bootlegs) and build up a following like this. You could even offer small concerts like this, either at a small music venue or even in someone's home... kind of an "evening with Songwriter" kind of thing, where it's understood that it won't be a concert in the usual sense of the word, but just a relaxed gathering where the music goes where it (well, you) wills.

[mercuryrising]

Originally Posted by songwriter

yes, and I should be recording instead being here... lol... Well sometimes I've stopped composing and I've planned to focus in recording, that can't be bad too. Well, that's crap for me. I forgot the part I sure love and enjoy... let's see what I can do with the other part, but how the heck I'm not doing what I already love? (as Steve kind of says), it's silly.

I'm not sure why you couldn't compose for other people. You play for yourself and the person who wants to record something and play for audiences can play your songs. You get paid and get to do what you love.

As an aside, I have an instrumental I made a couple years ago. I was wondering if you'd like to come up with some lyrics. Every time I see your name, I think about it.

[songwriter]

Originally Posted by mercuryrising

I'm not sure why you couldn't compose for other people. You play for yourself and the person who wants to record something and play for audiences can play your songs. You get paid and get to do what you love.

As an aside, I have an instrumental I made a couple years ago. I was wondering if you'd like to come up with some lyrics. Every time I see your name, I think about it.

yes, it's another possibility, but even harder than being a composer-perfomer... there are even less people who make a living of being composer only, and the access to that people it's very hard.

Yes, hard but to impossible, it may be a way for me, time will tell.

Your instrumental, we can try, it would be good if you said to me if your music makes you think of anything or feel anything you can describe with words, so my lyrics would be related to the "source" of it all, that's you really. I'm gonna PM you an e-mail, send the music in mp3 or whatever, or any link, and I can try.

[Jes]

I don't mean this to sound negative, but I would explore other passions as well. Yes, writing for other people is one option. That could work. But if you despise the recording and performance processes, you're missing the point. I think the reason I've had some success with music is that I love composing and playing and listening to each note, no matter what my environment. Put me at a desk and ask me to crunch numbers, and I'm manic depressive. Put me at a piano, and I feel as though I've never lived. And that feeling allows me to sit there for hours (16+ hr. recording sessions) and forget about the rest of the world. I've met other musicians who can barely stand a two-hour practice session, and these are the people who leave their careers to become salesmen and start families. How much do you love it? If you're serious, forget about the money and do it to add value to the world. The money will follow.

[songwriter]

Originally Posted by Mags

Songwriter, you know when you're at a party and someone has a guitar and they're just doing their own thing, sometimes in the corner by themselves, other times a group gathers, but there's no expectation of a set programme to follow, it's just all relaxed and goes with the flow and mood of the musician and the group... have you ever been the person with the guitar in this kind of situation? If you've never experienced this before, do you think you could enjoy this more intimate relaxed setting?

If this type of scenario speaks to you, maybe you could get someone to record you (just audio, or video as well) doing this with a group of your friends, and you could start to release these recordings (kind of like official bootlegs) and build up a following like this. You could even offer small concerts like this, either at a small music venue or even in someone's home... kind of an "evening with Songwriter" kind of thing, where it's understood that it won't be a concert in the usual sense of the word, but just a relaxed gathering where the music goes where it (well, you) wills.

well, I've kind of already done that, a concert in a pub of my town. BUT I had a setlist in my head. And that's exactly what I don't like to do next time.

I must try what it feels to record with no plans either. Maybe it's a way of trying to fool myself... once I'll start recording I'll know what song it is... I don't know it this has sense in recording, but sure it has live.

When I record I multitrack myself with many instruments, so kind of the first instrument marks what song it's gonna be, and what follows it's quite predictable cause it's already in my head. That is when I remind what others say that is just a neccesarily boring part of it all.

[songwriter]

Originally Posted by Jes

I don't mean this to sound negative, but I would explore other passions as well. Yes, writing for other people is one option. That could work. But if you despise the recording and performance processes, you're missing the point. I think the reason I've had some success with music is that I love composing and playing and listening to each note, no matter what my environment. Put me at a desk and ask me to crunch numbers, and I'm manic depressive. Put me at a piano, and I feel as though I've never lived. And that feeling allows me to sit there for hours (16+ hr. recording sessions) and forget about the rest of the world. I've met other musicians who can barely stand a two-hour practice session, and these are the people who leave their careers to become salesmen and start families. How much do you love it? If you're serious, forget about the money and do it to add value to the world. The money will follow.

Once I attended some concert in my city. It was a band that sounded absolutely great. I had never seen anything like that around. They only played covers, so I thought "Hey, they might need songs!". I saw the bass player at a local bar, I told him I watched them etc and I gave her a CD with 3 demos of my songs. He said he liked my songs a lot and that they were gonna play them... and guess what?
The band splitted before the bassist even showed them my songs, in quite a synch way...
maybe I'm just not meant to that.

Well, when I'm alone I can go improvising for an unknown amout of time at the piano (but never 16 hours!). I remind a day I started when there was sunny in my room, the light faded as time passed, and an the very end I was playing without seeing the keyboard at all. And I didn't want to stop to turn on the lights.

It's the thing I love the most, but maybe I don't love it enough!, who knows.