The Shocking Truth about Successful People

[darthangel]

Everybody knows goals should be specific, measurable, attainable, realistic, and timely. Everyone knows that deadlines are needed and you need to take action daily to realize your goal.

However, most people don't see that the people who've made it just plugged away like everybody else and fortuitiously got their opportunity. Most of the celebrities and CEOS of Fortune Companies said that coming out of college (some only completed high school) they did not envision themselves in the positions that they were now in. Did Bill Gates know Microsoft would experience so much success that it would catapult him to be the world's richest man? Did Warren Buffet? Most of the celebrities were just one out of the millions of aspiring young actors/actresses but were given a chance and made the most of it. Does that mean that they had special qualities or character that set them above their fellow aspiring actors/actresses?

Im posting this because many people out there think that because people have millions of dollars it must mean that they are special, smart, and talented people who have contributed the most to society and deserved to be worshipped. Well sometimes this is the case, but most of them are not smarter than you and me and there are many wealthy ppl who are white trash. They didn't really set goals and just stuck with the program and plugged away and was eventually given a chance. This may piss off all the goal setting gurus that say that behind the scenes every successful man/woman has set goals to get to where they're at. If you ever listen to self-help audio programs the speaker explains that successful people have this trait, that trait, courage, vision, etc... But I'm willing to bet you guys know someone at the top of your company that doesn't have all these traits.

To put it simply, successful people are lucky. Now people don't take much stock in luck because it is something you can't do much about, but look at poker games and see how much luck influences your success or the other guy's success. See how much luck influences good genes, heritage, and lifespan. We've been taught that successful people have a certain secret system that they follow which gets them success but they are simply people who are like you and me but have received their breaks. Sure, they've put themselves in position but its the times that influence their success. For hundreds of years the philosophy of success from China and Japan's viewpoint was, "May Fortune smile on you." Luck is a very highly prized factor in Eastern countries.

The corollary to this statement is that if you've tried your best at something and haven't attained it, it is not your fault. You did your best. The "Best" out there just plugged away like you and me eventually got good breaks. Their qualities are strikingly close to ours.

[Sam988]

I agree 100%. For someone to succeed, being competent and doing "the right things" is not all. Luck is a considerable factor here. Maybe someone competent will, sooner or later, be an accomplished person, but the degree that the person is accomplished varies depending on the person's luck.

Many of the billionaires, as they themselves stated when asked what were the factors that made them so successful, said that they had a lot of luck along the way.




But darthangel let's face it, saying these things in these PD forums loaded with believers in LoA will fall on deaf ears mostly. People will counterargue that "we create our reality" and stuff. Yea right...

[Tuumble]

Neat viewpoint.

I would, however, say that these people are special, not in who they are exactly but in that they have a quality that drives forward. Maybe it's that they found the right balance in their lives and a form of truth for them that allowed them to see things more clearly.

The majority of people bounce from one chaos to the next and never get that clarity. What interests me is that we all know what we should do but don't take the most basic steps to change or head towards our dream.

Maybe it's the gulf between where we are to what we want to achieve and cannot get a handle on what needs to be done in between. Are we happier in the dream state rather than face the process/struggle of getting there?

Is dwelling on a long-term goal a problem? Should this only be something we think about once a month? If all our targets were based on the next 30 days would that help? Isn't that what many people do already when their focus is getting from one pay check to the next?

We all have the ability to achieve success. If we really thought about it we can all name at least on occasion where we acted to a phenomenal standard, at a level way beyond the masses. Nothing was going to stand in our way.

Whatever that occasion was it proves we can be successful. If we give commitment and consistency to our goals with daily action it WILL happen - we just need the courage and belief to see it through to the finish.

[newmark]

"The Shocking Truth..." is not so shocking. Many rich people inherited their wealth. And, yes, luck is important (whether you can create that yourself is another matter ).
However, how do you know Bill Gates, Warren Buffet etc didn't plan, set goals and think positively?
Regardless of whether luck is involved (whatever luck is ), many personal development techniques can help; sometimes quite a lot.
Sam988; I'm curious. If you truly believe what you say, why have you posted nearly a thousand times on this forum?

[tpd]

Hi, this is my first post, besides the one introducing myself in "General."

This discussion, and the apparent dichotomy between luck and purposeful action, reminds me of two quotes that resolve the difference:

"Chance favors the prepared mind." —Louis Pasteur
"The harder I work, the luckier I get." —Samuel Goldwyn

Everyone gets "lucky" at times. Why some times and not others? I say it's because of karma, the consequences of actions—good and bad—of previous lifetimes (or even this life), coming back around to pay off in this life, often with interest.

What you do once you get your payback depends on what you desire, plan for, and act towards now. That's why some people bounce back from bad luck stronger than ever, and some people wind up worse off after winning the lottery.

[toasterwater]

I think you should define your concept of success. According to what you've stated in here, you seem to equate success (mostly) to wealth.

Think about success in different terms, and it is clear that your "luck" theory doesn't apply. Success is ultimately user defined. If someone grows up desiring to be a nuclear physicist, I guarantee you he is not going to luck his way into that. There is no lottery for brilliance and innovation. You've pointed out very rich people of today's society as the pinnacle of success (Bill Gates, etc.). However, think about the names that stick out most in history. The people who really make a difference in the world, people like Benjamin Franklin, Albert Einstein, Ghandi... These kinds of people made huge impacts on the world, and they didn't just "luck" their ways into that.

Now, as for super rich people, I would argue your point with them as well. Sure luck is one route to riches. People win lotteries or game shows or inherit their fortunes, but there are plenty of rich people who got there through hard work, innovation, strategy, etc. In fact, I would go as far as to estimate that the richest people, the people who do the most good with their money, and the people who keep and build thier fortunes to the highest extent are the hard working, planning, "PD" type people, not the lucky ones.

[darthangel]

I am not advocating fatalism or behavior that entails sitting back, crossing your fingers, and hoping for the best. I do believe in taking responsibility for where you want to go in life, but I'm just pointing out that one can do the right things most of the time and still not reach the top and that would totally be OK since you've given it everything.

That being said, trying your best at your goals is the best bet, and no one should feel like a loser if they're not "the best." I've seen too many people who are result-oriented rather than performance-oriented and even if they do 95% of the things right, they only focus on the 5% that they did wrong and beat themselves up for it. Or the other scenario where if they are in the top 5% of something in the world yet always envy the top 1%.

The media and society is the source of this anxiety over being number one since only the number one person is remembered in their portrayals. Not everybody can have Celine Dion's voice or have Michael Jordan's athletic prowess, but we can do our best. Oh, and speaking of which I do recommend a book called Optimal Thinking on this subject.

[Sam988]

Originally Posted by newmark

Sam988; I'm curious. If you truly believe what you say, why have you posted nearly a thousand times on this forum?

Woa i am near 1,000 post mark ain't i! Didn't notice that. As for your question, because i've only started believing it a short while ago. If you check, i registered in march 2007, i was into the whole LoA thing in the beggining but slowly opened my eyes. Now i just post now and then because it's a mental challenge and no matter what i always manage to learn something from discussions.

[darthangel]

I agree Sam, I believe in the Law of Cause and Effect but I'm skeptical about the Law of Attraction. Sitting back and visualizing a million dollars is sort of delusional unless you are already a millionaire. I think LOA does work for the small things like get a girlfriend, gain 10 lbs muscle, earn $5,000 more etc... but not own a Ferrari, own a private jet, eat sushi off Lucy Liu's body, etc... unless you already have the means to do those things.

And yes the concept of success in The Secret and in most self-help material is wealth as seen by all those cars, houses, checks in the mail that were in the movie. You do make a good point Toasterwater and I would refine my point by saying that there are 3 types of ppl in this world in terms of wealth: those strictly by merit, those by merit and luck, and those by pure luck (genes, inheritance, looks, nepotism).

[ennah]

These are all decent points. Personally, I've always believed that luck is when opportunity meets the prepared. Most successful (wealth wise) people might not be different than the average person. But they did one thing right, noticed, realized and seized the opportunity. In that moment in time they probably just pounded the heck out of the moment of opportunity and didn't worry about balance or eating, or sleeping or much else. I've also always believed that money only emphasizes who you really are, it doesn't change you. So, being on this site, going through these exercises is hopefully only so that when we do get past the golden moment we can already be someone we can be proud to show off at a millionaire's ball in Venice...and know how to live a well balanced life. 'mens sana in corpore sano' (healthy mind in a healthy body)

[TheKarmicLaws]

Luck is a fallacy. It's a mind trick we use an excuse to either tell yourself you just didn't make it by a c-hair and it's not your fault or that the Gods have it in for you.

Either of these ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ excuses are only usefull for wiping our collective asses.

Good luck, bad luck, grey luck; it's all skewed perspective. It's a warped reality we use as a band aid when we're too lazy to actualize and maximize our own potential.

[Lenie]

Originally Posted by darthangel

Everybody knows goals should be specific, measurable, attainable, realistic, and timely. Everyone knows that deadlines are needed and you need to take action daily to realize your goal.

However, most people don't see that the people who've made it just plugged away like everybody else and fortuitiously got their opportunity. Most of the celebrities and CEOS of Fortune Companies said that coming out of college (some only completed high school) they did not envision themselves in the positions that they were now in. Did Bill Gates know Microsoft would experience so much success that it would catapult him to be the world's richest man? Did Warren Buffet? Most of the celebrities were just one out of the millions of aspiring young actors/actresses but were given a chance and made the most of it. Does that mean that they had special qualities or character that set them above their fellow aspiring actors/actresses?

Im posting this because many people out there think that because people have millions of dollars it must mean that they are special, smart, and talented people who have contributed the most to society and deserved to be worshipped. Well sometimes this is the case, but most of them are not smarter than you and me and there are many wealthy ppl who are white trash. They didn't really set goals and just stuck with the program and plugged away and was eventually given a chance. This may piss off all the goal setting gurus that say that behind the scenes every successful man/woman has set goals to get to where they're at. If you ever listen to self-help audio programs the speaker explains that successful people have this trait, that trait, courage, vision, etc... But I'm willing to bet you guys know someone at the top of your company that doesn't have all these traits.

To put it simply, successful people are lucky. Now people don't take much stock in luck because it is something you can't do much about, but look at poker games and see how much luck influences your success or the other guy's success. See how much luck influences good genes, heritage, and lifespan. We've been taught that successful people have a certain secret system that they follow which gets them success but they are simply people who are like you and me but have received their breaks. Sure, they've put themselves in position but its the times that influence their success. For hundreds of years the philosophy of success from China and Japan's viewpoint was, "May Fortune smile on you." Luck is a very highly prized factor in Eastern countries.

The corollary to this statement is that if you've tried your best at something and haven't attained it, it is not your fault. You did your best. The "Best" out there just plugged away like you and me eventually got good breaks. Their qualities are strikingly close to ours.

While that makes me feel better, can anyone verify whether it's true.
Because I'm feeling everything you're saying.
But before I believe it I just want some more replies.

Nevermind. I'll just believe you

[Lenie]

Originally Posted by Sam988

I agree 100%. For someone to succeed, being competent and doing "the right things" is not all. Luck is a considerable factor here. Maybe someone competent will, sooner or later, be an accomplished person, but the degree that the person is accomplished varies depending on the person's luck.

Many of the billionaires, as they themselves stated when asked what were the factors that made them so successful, said that they had a lot of luck along the way.




But darthangel let's face it, saying these things in these PD forums loaded with believers in LoA will fall on deaf ears mostly. People will counterargue that "we create our reality" and stuff. Yea right...

I'm starting to re -think the 12 thousand books I've read. (ok I'm exaggerating to make a point).

But I'm saying you know what?

I've worked my ass off.

Maybe it really is luck, looks, and who you know. Nothing more.

Hmm.

[Tigerlilly]

Originally Posted by darthangel

Im posting this because many people out there think that because people have millions of dollars it must mean that they are special, smart, and talented people who have contributed the most to society and deserved to be worshipped.

Oh, but I do worship the ground beneath Paris Hilton's feet. Not to speak of George W. Bush. And I'm simply dazzled by the level of enlightenment a lot of famous stars seem to have mastered.

But then, I've also seen some documentaries on how successful movies were made, where chaos seem to rule most of the way through, and marveled at how those movies really only got made in the end cause the folks in charge hang on to their dream with their bare teeth while the storms raged all around them.

This determination, this absolute will to make it happen in the middle of black despair and chaos all around, that I do admire and you come across that a lot in succesful people. They are ordinary schlubs just like everybody else, yes, but they are brave schlubs, cause they are willing to take risks and hold on to their dream when most others would abandon ship.

[Kate Saltfleet]

Richard Wiseman says it much better than me:

"Lucky people attempt to achieve their goals even if their chances of success are slim, and persevere in the face of failure".

I'm reading his book "Did you spot the Gorilla?" at the moment, highly recommended.

[Brutha]

The people who really make a difference in the world, people like Benjamin Franklin, Albert Einstein, Ghandi...

For every Einstein there are a lot of scientists who also persue ideas that are similary risky but who don't happen to persue ideas that have a high payof.
Einstein could have just as likely picked another idea that didn't have as much impact and have the same attitude to work on that other idea.

Anarchy in the EU. In the Pipeline: is a good post that argues against the idea of goal driven science.

[justfiverules]

Perhaps "successful" people really believe something along the lines of what Kurt Hahn of Outward Bound organization wrote applies to their lives:

“We are all better than we know. If only we can be brought to realise this, we may never be prepared to settle for anything less.”

About The Trust

[Calimero]

Originally Posted by toasterwater

I think you should define your concept of success. According to what you've stated in here, you seem to equate success (mostly) to wealth.

Think about success in different terms, and it is clear that your "luck" theory doesn't apply. Success is ultimately user defined. If someone grows up desiring to be a nuclear physicist, I guarantee you he is not going to luck his way into that. There is no lottery for brilliance and innovation. You've pointed out very rich people of today's society as the pinnacle of success (Bill Gates, etc.). However, think about the names that stick out most in history. The people who really make a difference in the world, people like Benjamin Franklin, Albert Einstein, Ghandi... These kinds of people made huge impacts on the world, and they didn't just "luck" their ways into that.

Now, as for super rich people, I would argue your point with them as well. Sure luck is one route to riches. People win lotteries or game shows or inherit their fortunes, but there are plenty of rich people who got there through hard work, innovation, strategy, etc. In fact, I would go as far as to estimate that the richest people, the people who do the most good with their money, and the people who keep and build thier fortunes to the highest extent are the hard working, planning, "PD" type people, not the lucky ones.

I agree that there are a lot of definitions for success

If becoming successful means being known worldwide for what you did than you need luck as well. Like for scientists or people that invented or discovered things there are many people that made a large contribution with their inventions and knowledge to things that we use up till today.

Everybody knows the name of Albert Einstein.
But nearly no-one seems to know who Tesla is or was.
Well that man was great but even at school when you get some lessons on physics like about waves or electricity no school book is ever mentioning Nicolai Tesla.
Just go and search for him and than wonder why you nearly never hear his name. Why didn't he become famous if being famous is the same as being successful. So you need the media and being bombed into the world. If you are lucky you end up in school books but if you are not lucky they never mention your name even when the most brilliant things explained in that certain book were actually your inventions.
He was successful in my opinion. And I hope one day someone will be as brilliant as he was and will find what he was actually really looking for. I am not smart enough that is for sure.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by darthangel

Everybody knows goals should be specific, measurable, attainable, realistic, and timely. Everyone knows that deadlines are needed and you need to take action daily to realize your goal.

I disagree with that advice. I tried setting S.M.A.R.T. goals, and it just didn't work. I sat around and did nothing to achieve them. I found the SMART approach to goal setting to be totally ineffective in practice.

Goals are important, but I found a much more effective approach to goal setting and wrote an article about it a while back:
How to Set Goals You Will Actually Achieve

When I was first launching StevePavlina.com, I set a goal to create the best personal development site in the world. That isn't very specific or measurable. How do you define best? I also had no deadline for it... and no clear plan. But somehow the goal was very motivating to me. I took a lot of action and got fantastic results from pursuing it. The goal inspired me when I thought about it.

That's all you need -- a goal that inspires you to get moving whenever you think about it. If SMART goals do that for you, great. If SMART goals don't work for you, dump them.

[Brutha]

Well that man was great but even at school when you get some lessons on physics like about waves or electricity no school book is ever mentioning Nicolai Tesla.

That's not true.
Tesla got his own physical unit that you use sometimes in school (you don't calculate anything in Einsteins in school).

[lasti]

I'll tell you all when I'm successful

[toasterwater]

That's a really great point... if you read Steve's "How to Set Goals You Will Actually Achieve" article, you see a whole new light shined on this success business.

"However, most people don't see that the people who've made it just plugged away like everybody else and fortuitiously got their opportunity"

Once again, this all depends on your idea of "made it". Which kind of success are we talking about again? The kind of success that leads to fame and riches? Because that is the same kind of success that leads lots of very rich, very famous rockstars to kill themselves. Also, remember lessons from the great depression. Lots of very "successful" people (CEO's, wealthy investors, etc.) jumped from the hights of their office buildings because at the drop of a hat (okay, it was probably a little more than a drop of a hat ) their fortunes were gone.

The kind of success that is so fickle that you want to kill yourself when something uncontrollable happens, or the kind of success that does nothing to cure your aching depression and suicidal tendancies... well, that doesn't seem much like success to me. How about you?

On the other hand, imagine some of those "poor souls" who worked hard thier entire lives and contributed greatly to mankind without ever recieving recognition for their efforts. Is it at all possible that their success was the satisfaction they got from their work? Or, imagine something completely rediculous. Imagine a man who's worked hard his entire life in not-so-lucrative businesses, has a wife and a family (and alot of debt). Is it possible that this man feels great pride in the success that is his life? Simply keeping a marriage together for a few decades and raising children who don't end up on the streets...

Redefine success...

[darthangel]

Steve, I like your article on staying in the present moment in terms of goal setting. Staying in the now and going one step of the time is the way to go. I know Brian Tracy would say the exact opposite citing studies showing the the most successful people have "long-term time perspective" and were disciplined. However, you are right in your article because most people want their long-term goal NOW which causes them to focus on it, and miss the joys of life in there here and now. And eventually they quit because they aren't patient enough to go one step of the time. I'm guilty of doing that.
I guess what Confucius said was right, "A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step."

Toasterwater, maybe I have been brainwashed a little by Brian Tracy, who was my previous favorite self-help author. He stated authoritatively that everyone's goal should be to become a millionaire at age 30. And yes at one point I actually believed that I was going to be one and it drove me crazy because I wasn't living in the now and only thinking of that moment I would become one. After about a week I realized how stupid it was to cram 5 years into 3 days. LOL. Anyway, succeess to me means having enough to pay my future kids college, buying my wife/kids nice dinners occasionally, having enough to travel once a year, etc... In that sense money is important. It won't make you happy thats for sure but it will satisfy some of your needs and that of your loved ones.

[Sam988]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

If SMART goals don't work for you, dump them.

That should be the main point here: some things work for some people and other things work for other people.




edit: 1,000th post!

[paeterus]

There's something sad about this view point.

[fellowtraveler]

Originally Posted by darthangel

....I'm willing to bet you guys know someone at the top of your company that doesn't have all these traits.
<snip>
To put it simply, successful people are lucky

It's been said that one should always hire people who are smarter than you are. The logical outcome of this would be that the head of the outfit is the dumbest one in the company!

Anyhow, you're probably right. Taking advantage of a lucky break, along with keeping at it, is the main way these people got to the "top" (with notable exceptions of course).

I have also often thought that it would be beneficial to be too dumb to know that failure might occur...

[Calimero]

Originally Posted by Brutha

That's not true.
Tesla got his own physical unit that you use sometimes in school (you don't calculate anything in Einsteins in school).

I am glad to hear that I am wrong that there are some schools in the world where they mention Tesla.
I haven't met that much people who ever heard about that man at school before I talked about him.
And no of course we don't calculate everything Einstein calculated at school but his name is at least mentioned. Even people that chose to skip as many science or technology subjects at school, get to know who Einstein is....as the History class will mention his name for those who avoid to study some science and technology.
Really I am happy to hear that this man is not forgotten in the whole world.

[toasterwater]

I am glad to hear that I am wrong that there are some schools in the world where they mention Tesla.
I haven't met that much people who ever heard about that man at school before I talked about him.
And no of course we don't calculate everything Einstein calculated at school but his name is at least mentioned. Even people that chose to skip as many science or technology subjects at school, get to know who Einstein is....as the History class will mention his name for those who avoid to study some science and technology.
Really I am happy to hear that this man is not forgotten in the whole world.

I think you missed the point Brutha was making. Tesla is famous. As Brutha was noting, they named a unit of measure after him.

"One tesla is defined as the field intensity generating one newton of force per ampere of current per meter of conductor"

and he wasn't suggesting that we should "calculate everything Einstein calculated at school". He was refering to the fact that there is no unit of measure named after Einstein.

I would also like to note that there are a couple of monuments and statues of Tesla... it took one google search to find that info out, so he must be at least a little famous.

[Brutha]

Originally Posted by toasterwater

and he wasn't suggesting that we should "calculate everything Einstein calculated at school". He was refering to the fact that there is no unit of measure named after Einstein.

There is a measure named after Einstein: Einstein (unit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
but nobody uses it in school.
Tesla got a more important unit.

Sure Einstein is more famous at the moment, but that doesn't deminish the fact that Tesla is one of the most famous scientists.

[stevedevane]

It strikes me that hard work, positive thinking and good fortune (or luck or whatever you want to call it) are not mutually exclusive. Anyone who is successful has likely had all three. And, I agree that everyone's different, so different strategies work for different folks.
I've found some personal development tools that help me and some that don't. I use the ones that work and scrap the ones that don't. I sometimes learn, however, that some don't work because I'm misusing them in some manner.