REALLY changed your mind?

[stephencp]

This thread was prompted by the global warming thread.

How many times have you REALLY CHANGED your mind? So many people seem to listen only to what reinforces thier status quo (which includeds the way they think things should be.)

But how many times have YOU really changed and/or changed your mind?


Stephen
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[Markus74]

Rarely I guess. Unless it was obvious that my point of view was wrong and the other one correct.

[pi11]

Complete 180 degrees turn? Only once in my life, but that time period lasted for a couple of years.

[Create]

I have done 180 turns and close to 180's , but i'm young so to me it's perfectly normal and a part of my growth.

all the changes of mind I have experienced, since i'm naturaly pig-headed, were because of learning from experience. I realised, after re-aligning my perceptions, that I was wrong. But it never was a matter of sitting me down and convincing me of anything - I had to LIVE my mistake or my wrongfullness and earn all the cold facts myself before changing my mind.

If you are specificaly think of an exchange of ideas like the global warming thread, I stick to the information I have, until someone or something presents me with objective facts and new information that is undiscutable - then I remeasure my own point of view. But I'M rarely purely "convinced", unless I jsut didn't understand something in the first place, and my opinion was based on mis-interpretation of information....

So many ways!

[Jill]

I believe I change my mind all the time. I may have one opinion on something when I don't have all the facts. But once I learn more and really think hard about the situation, I can definitely be persuaded one way or the other. Perhaps even too much so!

[TechnoGuyRob]

Originally Posted by Jill

I believe I change my mind all the time.

But will that belief change any time?

[RT Wolf]

Depends on whether you mean in a moment (ie, an epiphany) or over time. I've changed my time over time, but don't recall a single time when I completely changed it.

There's a few issues to completely changing your mind.

One is that when you say something to others, you confirm it for yourself and you want to be consistant with yourself. That is, it's difficult to change your mind because you've already identified yourself as the kind of person that is/says/believes/does x. Another thing is, if you get into a debate (even a friendly one) with someone else, you hammer in your own beliefs even more. Unless the other person is extremely skilled at the art of persuasion, it can be difficult to get someone to change their minds.

Another issue is what you're changing and how much of an impact that change can have. For example, if changing my mind meant changing my entire life, that's a more difficult change and many people run from those kinds of questions.

Yet another issue is emotions. Many people make decisions based on emotions rather than clear rationality, however, they believe that they are making those decisions or judgements using their rational mind. So, their emotions secretly hide behind their seemingly "rational" decisions. So, if/when confronted, those emotions reveal themselves, or quietly lurk behind everything they say.

Excuse me for any unintelligibility. I'm fairly tired right now.

[alexander.kharlamov]

Twice actually, both times it was politics.

Once I went from fervent supporter to disgusted opponent of the Republican party, and later on the same thing happened with the Democrats as well.

[Cassie]

It's not uncommon for me to change my stance. I've done it quite a bit through the years. I'm always researching new things and acquiring new knowledge, so sometimes it's difficult not to.

[MGJ]

I change all the time. Just ask my wife if we're decorating or remodeling the house. I change my mind on subjects all the time, but changing core values or beliefs are something different. The ones I want to change for personal improvement take time, effort and discipline.

[tc33]

Over time, I've learned that attaching my emotions and my ego to my beliefs makes them exponentially more difficult to change, even if I am faced with an obviously rational and irrefutable counter-argument. Moreover, I think the subconscious fear I would experience when faced with the implications of accepting a given belief in order to maintain congruency would cause me to reject the idea out of fear. Hey -- it's easier to live a lie, right?

Timely example: I'm 28 and, about two weeks ago, for the first time in my life I decided that there is no god and that christianity is a farce. However, I haven't been a religious person since I got confirmed (lol) therefore it wasn't much of a paradigm shift for me. On the other hand, imagine a 55-year-old priest finally coming to the conclusion that there really is no god after all. Wouldn't it be easier for him to deny the evidence in order to irrationally justify his beliefs and, by extension, his entire life in service to god? Only a man of tremendous objectivity, self-confidence and dedication to truth could admit such a fact and then accordingly adjust his life to remain congruent. Lying to oneself is just so much easier.

By separating my beliefs from my identity and my emotions, I've found it much easier to change my views on many topics which I would have irrationally justified at an earlier time in my life in order to protect my ego.

Hope that helps

Tom

[stephencp]

"Wouldn't it be easier for him to deny the evidence in order to irrationally justify his beliefs and, by extension, his entire life in service to god?"

It's fairly hard to have evidence proving a negative. What "evidence" do you have that g(G)od does not exist?

Stephen
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[Angela]

TC33, your example of your views on god and christianity are timely, for a lot of reasons! Your point is well taken that emotion and ego are strong glue for points of view. So much emotion is associated with religion that it's often difficult to think about it clearly. After recovering from a catholic upbringing, I have recently had an epiphany like yours, except that it was not suddenly realizing there is no god, but rather, realizing that I had always known it was bunk, was being manipulated, and am damn good and ready to stop remaining silent about it. With some very astute thinkers communicating publicly about his subject lately, incredible numbers of people who are free of supernatural belief are "coming out of the closet." Out of this trend, I'm hoping for a societal Real Change of Mind, and a new, overdue, era of reason.

[tc33]

Stephencp - you are correct. I agree that there is no evidence of a negative. In other words, there is no evidence that god does NOT exist. Because this thread is about changing minds and not about the existence of god, I didn't want to litter my message with the intracacies of the naturalist vs apologist arguments. Out of respect for the topic of this thread, I hope that we can all agree to remain on-topic here.

Angela - well said. Thanks for sharing.

Tom

[Angela]

Interestingly, it was Stephenpc who began the thread!

In general, "changing your mind" has gotten kind of a bad rap, don't you think? It takes courage to disregard accusations of "waffling" or "flip-flopping." But a thoughtful person who has never done a 180 on any matter might be wise to consider why not. I'm going to think about where I'm married to my own ego (and therefore maybe defensive). Thanks, TC33!

[tc33]

Originally Posted by Angela

Interestingly, it was Stephenpc who began the thread!

LOL! I knew I should have looked before I wrote that. -- OK, fixed, good catch!

[stephencp]

No, you're right. While I might have started this thread, I did start to stray. The point was indeed changing minds and hearts and I shouldn't have been tempted to head off on a tangent of whether or not you were justified in changing....


Stephen
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[ReallyGoodIdeas]

It was climate change that made me realise you can't change other people's minds. My sister and I realised a few years ago that we needed to do something and set up YesWeCanDoIt - Home but ended up in pointless arguments with people who probably decided we were crazy greenies.

It's the emotional content of the reasoning that is the clincher. As tc33 said, once you attach emotions to your opinion, you are wedded to it, and it takes a lot of willpower to disengage. Because you then need to change your identity.

Mnay people are afraid of the apocalyptic predictions about climate change so happily continue on driving their fuel guzzling cars denying that climate change is occurring. It works for them. They dont need to feel guilt. We figured you actually have to make it fun and happy to admit to climate change, and change your behaviours.

There are many positives to changing to reduce our effect on the environment - lower fuel bills for a start. Help your cashflow an the environment. See what I mean? It needs to be completely positive!

The ended up leading me on to positive thinking and then EFT... It's been a great ride!!

Joy to you
Hazel

[Amadeus]

Yes, I've done a complete 180 in the past couple of years when it comes to party affiliation. I am a Christian conservative who use to be a Republican. I loved Ronald Reagan and voted for George W.........twice. I thought going into Iraq was the right thing to do, and could have been if done correctly. I thought the Republican Party could do no wrong. Instead we've had ridiculous spending, pure ignorance when it comes to the border control issue in Mexico, no direction in Iraq, pure neglect over Hurricane Katrina, letting large corporations in the pharmaceutical industry and other big business pay off our politicians, and a president who is acting like a chicken with his head cut off in a time when we need a leader.
Yea, I'd say I've done a 180. I am the last person in this World, my friends would say, that would come to this conclusion. I'm still shaken up by it. The proof of this obvious idiocy was there a few years before I came to this conclusion. There was a cloud of denial and brainwashing that I had to fight through to see the truth.
Oh, please don't be mistaken Democrats, your party is just as liable for the above. Your party's politicians are also being bought and full of corruption as much as the Republicans. The People are being royally screwed over by our government. It took me a while to realize.

(Also, for those that are reading and say that it was not the federal government's responsibility to go into New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina because of state and federal law are sadly mistaken. When a natural disaster affects two or more states (Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi) it becomes a federal event. I am a firm believer that individuals need to educate and protect themselves and not to rely on the government, but the Bible states that we must take care of the "lesser" of us at all times.)