Ignorance is Bliss?

[Natureboy]

Hi Guys.

This is a virginal post, and I felt I had to contribute because I've been watching intently from the sidelines for too long now!

I can't help but feel that before I came across the world of Self-Improvement (4 or 5 years ago), I was a happier, more content person. I've digested many works by the major kingpins in the field, but can't help coming away feeling worse than I did before. All it tends to reveal to me are my own insecurities, and how far I've yet to grow.

I am by no means an unhappy person now. I just feel that the wealth of information, and teachers out there have created more harm than good for me. As an avid reader, I've found myself pulled this way and that by those proclaiming to be more 'enlightened' or 'successful' than your average Joe which has been incredibly frustrating .

Ultimately I'm just wondering if anyone else has regretted following this Self-Help quest and if they could, would they go back to the day when we were a little bit more ignorant of it all?

Nature

[Fullcrum]

Unless you're just spinning your wheels, I would never turn back.

The reason we're in this is for results. Are you getting the results that you want? Do you have an ideal picture of what you want, and are you moving towards it?

[bronxr]

Oh, I have same experience as you. I am happy that I am not alone. I really wanted to improve everything on me, the body, memory, diet, positive thinking, spirituality ... But nothing changed, if changed then to worse.
I was doing the Law of attraction at first. There had no sucess in it, I just empowered my thoughts and became to be overfocused on them. I wanted to improve memory not realising that I have already good memory and I was always trying to do some new technique to remember, holistic learning , associations and so on. But it was just interfering with my thinking. I was doing spirituality but I got overwhelmed by it by all those theories, other views on world and everything, but it was for nothing.
I dont want to drag you down with me with this thinking, this is the way it worked for me. It whole seems to me as personal development industry which is trying to gain money from people.
It is time to appreciate and enjoy normal life.

Im just 18 and I was studying all these things for 3 years and I gone throught a few regrets, for example I tryed the some brainwave software for changing the states of mind, maybe I overused it but I wasnt sleeping for 2 weeks and felt really depressed. And for 2 years I was fighting with my every negative thought being in belief that I can win above It and deny it. Finally after claryfiing of my dumb belief I realised that you reinforce what you resist or try to change or you put attention to.
So yeah, ignorance is from my point of view bliss, you just live.

Sorry for my English, it is not my native language.

[Natureboy]

Fullcrum,

I take what you are saying on board, but I feel there is a danger of getting 'bogged' down because this self-help exposion that we are 'enjoying' seems to be making people more frustrated with their lives than ever, and it's everywhere we look. It's easy to get confused because no-one has the right formula for success. It doesn't exist.

When reading the likes of Tony Robbins et al, I'm almost relinquishing my emotion to 'feel happy' until I complete one of said's program. It's just that a lot of the info out there ends up frustrating me rather than helping.

I don't mind some practical, sound advice (some of Steve P's articles have helped in that respect). What I don't enjoy is navigating through the vines in the dark, because they can tangle, and choke a person's joy.

I just guess we have to be selective in what we choose, but it's never been a more difficult time to do so.

Sorry for my English, it is not my native language.

Bronxr I read you loud and clear!

[Fullcrum]

Well I'd say just make a clear picture of what you want.

If anything is aligned with that, you go with it. How do you know if it works? You try it out for a period of time. That's self-development at it's finest.

If it's not aligned after testing, you drop it. For example, Tony's an awesome speaker with very nice state changing techniques for what I want. His sheer power is example. But his diet advice does not apply to me, so I drop it.

I know it's quite hard to select among the cacophony of methods and stuff. I'd say to find people who have a quality that you want, see what they did, and emulate.

BTW, I feel Tony's message is to reliquish happiness until you complete his program, more like "Get excited about life!" I feel happy now just reading his stuff, and that energy is translated into doing stuff I want.

Tony's not the only guy I follow - I'm just using your example.

My question remains thus: What do you really want?

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Natureboy

As an avid reader, I've found myself pulled this way and that by those proclaiming to be more 'enlightened' or 'successful' than your average Joe which has been incredibly frustrating .

It sounds like what's got you frustrated is your tendency to compare yourself to the authors. It's not the authors who make you feel bad, it's your thoughts about the authors.

Maybe it's time for you to just let it all go for now -- let go of reading these books, let go of concern for being enlightened or successful, let go of thinking you're anything but perfect, whole, and complete (which you are, by the way.)

Aside from the reading and personal development, do you find you compare yourself to others, and find yourself to be either less or more -- better or worse -- than others?

[Sam988]

Originally Posted by Natureboy

Hi Guys.

This is a virginal post, and I felt I had to contribute because I've been watching intently from the sidelines for too long now!

I can't help but feel that before I came across the world of Self-Improvement (4 or 5 years ago), I was a happier, more content person. I've digested many works by the major kingpins in the field, but can't help coming away feeling worse than I did before. All it tends to reveal to me are my own insecurities, and how far I've yet to grow.

I am by no means an unhappy person now. I just feel that the wealth of information, and teachers out there have created more harm than good for me. As an avid reader, I've found myself pulled this way and that by those proclaiming to be more 'enlightened' or 'successful' than your average Joe which has been incredibly frustrating .

Ultimately I'm just wondering if anyone else has regretted following this Self-Help quest and if they could, would they go back to the day when we were a little bit more ignorant of it all?

Nature

You're managing to get information that was supposed to help you and even then make it be a negative burden on you, amazing


Of course many will disagree but i think that most of self help stuff is unrealistic and doesn't work, but there are many good pieces of advice out there. Conclusion is, whatever information you see/get, use it in a way that will benefit you and make you a better person! After all, "information is power". First thing you need to learn is how to use information (all sorts of information) to your best advantage.

[Digit]

ignorance is certainly not bliss... that kinda thing will eventually snap back n hit you pretty hard.

but theres something kinda similar that might be what the phrase might have originally ment.

samadhi.
{edit: or at least in my interpretation of the word.}

i dont think we have a comparable word in english, but there is a phrase which can sometimes come close to depicting it (though not always), that being to let those negative attacks roll off you like water off a duck's back. and not just negative attacks. it is a state of being where it is instilled in you, a steady unwaveringness, void of undue influences (like bogus "self help" from a charlatan guru lining their pocket, or well intended echoes of bogus help from a parroting devotee).

to me, ignorance abhors awareness, samadhi welcomes it (even necessitates it).

with samadhi, you can still learn.




a little bit of information is a dangerous thing. and thats all we ever have. some folks want to recoil from the little information they have (often thinking it's alot of information), not realising that's even more dangerous. the only way i know to avoid the danger [of a little information] is to charge ahead and get more information. as broadly as possible. not towers of information that come tumbling down and take you with them. giant broad based mound's of information.
although, that all sounds very "quantity", when really, its the specifics we need, the right qualities, the high calibur of information. going for quantity is just a sure fire way of getting there, and if pursued with enough gusto, will likely take you to the place where you have sufficient information to discern truth from nescience.

.... presumably presumably*.



*i presume it's presumption

[newmark]

Maybe you are trying to do too much. Why not just choose one writer's ideas to try out? Steve's site has some good ideas. Why not just try those and forget the others for now?

[Rockchick26]

No i dont feel that way at all,i am definately glad i discovered all this,my only problem is that there are so many things to learn and a few of them contradict each other and its hard to decide what is the truth and what you should beleive in and what things you should do that will help and what things wont help,etc. Its so overwhelming,but worth it!

[Jarrod]

Originally Posted by newmark

Maybe you are trying to do too much. Why not just choose one writer's ideas to try out? Steve's site has some good ideas. Why not just try those and forget the others for now?

Very good advice. I think different authors are at different levels and are generally offering different areas and levels of advice. When you mix them sometimes they can conflict and it can reduce your focus on giving one of them a proper effort. Then if you do get something positive out of a bunch of them, which one was the real useful one? It can be hard to tell.

For me the journey has been worth it. The start is very hard because you have to break habits and social norms. It can be hard to see many gains at this time. But with persistence over time you start to see real benefits. Even though it is still very hard work.

[Kate Saltfleet]

Don't get hooked on self help writing for its own sake. I used to love reading book after book, hoping that one of them would hold the answers and the universe would magically reveal itself to me. It doesn't work that way. There is a lot of fine writing out there and a load of recycled platitudes that can apply to anything under the sun.

The power of self help is how you use it to empower your own life. The books are only an inspiration. Even a book of motivational quotations can be classed as self-help, ultimately it is up to you to use that wisdom to create positive effects in your own life.

[nightdiamond]

Hi Natureboy,

I've discovered that when we look into self improvenment, or self help, it's usually because we feel something is missing, or there is a pain to be healed...

Have to go right now, but I'll be back later to finish my post...

Take care for now....

[Digit]

Originally Posted by Rockchick26

No i dont feel that way at all,i am definately glad i discovered all this,my only problem is that there are so many things to learn and a few of them contradict each other and its hard to decide what is the truth and what you should beleive in and what things you should do that will help and what things wont help,etc. Its so overwhelming,but worth it!

it can indeed be that [overwhelming].
it is that [worth it].
(edit- or should i say "seems like", given where i've taken this post by the end n reminded myself of a few things. hehe.)

i got around this partly by choosing not to believe anymore. i started to see that belief was part of the problem, even though many people swear it helps them tremendously. it's not the things we don't know that are the greater hindrance. it's the things we think we know, that are just plain untrue!
so neither belief nor disbelief have a resting place in me, and i remove it wherever i find it.

certainty and uncertainty. we need them both.

certainty is great, it gives us determination, motivation, inspires action.

but like the totalitarian fascist one party state, the significant advantage of the speed of decisions is also the greatest disadvantage.

the balance of uncertainty is what actually perfects our ability to make "the right choices".

if we never check ourselves, then how do we know?

some folks say you can question your beliefs, you can change your beliefs and so on. but really, look around. does that happen often? not that i've seen in myself or others. we become too easily attached to our beliefs, using them to define ourselves.



we do all however, have a truth meter within us.
sometimes something resonates with us in such perfectly aligned harmony that our sense of revelation inspires much enthusiasm.

maybe it's not perfect, given the nature of our physiology, and the "what works" "meme" selection process. anyone who knows about the effects of various chemicals on our thoughts, or has seen Derren Brown (or Paul McKenna or other hypnotists) knows we don't live in a state of our phenomenal reality (senses, thoughts) marrying perfectly with some supposed "objective reality".

but hey, that's all very receiver-ish. we're projectors of reality! not mere receivers!

imagination is more important than knowledge. well worth repeating with contemplation on it's meaning.

if we seek & aquire knowledge, then what have we done but follow?
if we imagine and create.....


picture this... we are all in our own reality tunnels, and we, whether wittingly or not, are steering our tunnel. if that's true, wouldnt you want to know this so you could put your own hands on the steering wheel?


one other analogy in this analogy-fest i wanna get over since it helped me millions and millions (hehe, and proving my earlier point, it was an analogy i came up with myself):

there's someone looking at a kettle from a single perspective. he studies it for a bit and proclaims, "i know the nature of it! it's a round object with a protrusion with a hole in it which leads to the inside of the object."
there's another person at the other side doing a similar thing, looks at it and proclaims, "That's rubbish. i can see the protrusion of which you speak, but i can clearly see that you could never access the interior by passing through the hole in the protrusion!"
an argument ensues, both swearing with certainty what they saw, each growing more frustrated by the "lies" of the other.
a third person during all this has been keeping quiet, walking around and around. they then offer their perspective, "You're both right about what you see!"




see?


the two people of fixed perspective never got up and moved around to see the same thing from different views!

and what potential trouble for them both it could result in! ...if it were not for the third person.

ahhh, such is the way with so many cultural and interpersonal interactions until you learn, however you do so, that we all have our own reality tunnel, no one perspective more true than another.

certainty, without a balanced measure of uncertainty, is likely to be ignorant of other perspectives on the same thing.



reality tunnels. great term. i got it from Robbert Anton Wilson. "maybe Logic".

Originally Posted by Kate Saltfleet

Don't get hooked on self help writing for its own sake. I used to love reading book after book, hoping that one of them would hold the answers and the universe would magically reveal itself to me. It doesn't work that way. There is a lot of fine writing out there and a load of recycled platitudes that can apply to anything under the sun.

The power of self help is how you use it to empower your own life. The books are only an inspiration. Even a book of motivational quotations can be classed as self-help, ultimately it is up to you to use that wisdom to create positive effects in your own life.

Great advice there. oh what a muddle i remember i got in from "guidance overload". if you notice you're starting to get stuck, take a break from it all n get clear again.

[karinalynn]

I am not anti-self help, but I believe that it's success depends on how we process it. If we take everything literally or try to perfect our lives, we get no place. Take what you are reading or encountering and twist it until it fits into your existing life. Part of this will depend on how well you know yourself. Did you ever take time to realize that? If not, the self-help may just be confusing you about who you really are and what type of life you were meant live.

Here is my suggestion. Stop with the self-help for a little while and just live your life(this is MUCH easier said than done, but in the long run, you'll be thankful you did it). Now make sure you are making observations about everything that is going on. What makes you feel good? Bad? Indifferent? Anyalize your feelings and actions. Why are you who you are? Ask lots of questions (I did this by taking many, many quiet walks). The peices will start to put themselves together and you will notice a pattern. You will notice your stregnths and weaknesses. Once you know these, it's easier to work on your life (and its direction) in a realistic and postive way. Figure out what already is before you try to change it.

[Ryan24]

If I were you, I would stay clear from any self help stuff for a while. Clear your mind up a bit. The heart of most of it is just telling you that you should find your own way anyways.

Try and imagine if you could disregard all of the advice, and work on writing your own self help book. How would you go about doing that?

[johnadamson]

There is a growing "anti-self-help" movement that is warning that the pursuit of personal development could actually be doing more harm than good.

There is evidence for this - the rise in divorce rates in the USA over the past 20 years corresponds with the rise in the boom in sales of "relationship books." The theory goes that people would just put up with faults in their relationships in the past. Now, they are expected to fix them, or dump their partner in pursuit of perfection.

In Schools, attainment levels have fallen as subjects such as math and spelling are replaced with "happiness education." Their marks are falling, but they don't feel bad about it.

The desire to constantly achieve, rather than just enjoying life as it is, can put a strain on you over time. The aim of having the perfect life is understandable, but almost no-one ever finds it. Finding happy comprimises in all things is key - fix the things you can, accept the things you can't.

Don't give up on pursuing things that you want, but remember to look for the "Acres of Diamonds" already under your feet.

Best wishes,
John

[Fullcrum]

That's funny, John, that you have a sig titled "Ready to take on the Goal-Centered Lifestyle?" Haha.

The only thing I disagree with is the thing about schools. I do not see "happiness education" anywhere. Is this just a theory of yours, or am I missing something? I'm a Junior in high school and any attempt to instill a goal-directed life upon us by the administration has fallen on deaf ears. Unless my friends who get drunk on weekends are not telling me about their secret goal diary.

[johnadamson]

Unfortunately, happiness education is no longer just a theory. Here is some reading on happiness being taught in schools:
Happiness lessons for all pupils - Times Online
Teaching happiness, not dogma - Education News - theage.com.au

A major problem with this is that educationalists will inevitably try to define what happiness is, in order to track if it is working. They'll then try to roll out a nation of happy people to their exacting standards.

Best wishes,
John

[Fullcrum]

It seems like a college initiative, which I've not had a change to see yet. So what, exactly, is the problem with these courses? That people will try to define happiness and spit out happy people who are unwilling to do anything about their problems? Or is it something else?

[hkalchemy]

At least schools are recognising that education isn't just about academic subjects. I think they should be applauded for that. I am an 'educationalist' myself and I have tried for years to refocus school curricula onto self awareness and personal development. This is a step in the right direction, I think.

Best wishes to you.

[Zwynd]

Originally Posted by Natureboy

Hi Guys.

This is a virginal post, and I felt I had to contribute because I've been watching intently from the sidelines for too long now!

I can't help but feel tha