Having an accurate self image

[Brutha]

Most people are shocked when they hear a recording of their voice for the first time or a video of their bodylanguage.
Similary most people don't like themselves on photos.

We tend to believe that our voice sounds better than it actually does.
Is it valueable to know the truth to correct the weaknesses, or is it better to focus on having a strong sense of having a strong voice?

[Remiel]

Originally Posted by Brutha

Most people are shocked when they hear a recording of their voice for the first time or a video of their bodylanguage.
Similary most people don't like themselves on photos.

We tend to believe that our voice sounds better than it actually does.
Is it valueable to know the truth to correct the weaknesses, or is it better to focus on having a strong sense of having a strong voice?

Our voice sounds different to us because our ears have gotten used to hearing them from a different vantage point. I just recently started taking voice lessons and while I don't recall the specifics of how this works I do recall a story my professor told me.

There was a lady who was having trouble singing loud enough and so she started imagining herself singing louder. She continued to do this and she got louder and louder and louder... in her own mind. In reality she got quieter and quieter and even more off pitch than she was before. Yet she heard herself as singing correctly.

The moral of the story is that self deception will only lead to ruin in the end.

I cannot change what I do not acknowledge. I heard that saying and have found it to be very true. If I don't acknowledge something is true how can I possibly hope to correct it? Sometimes that may even mean I have to take several steps backwards in order to continue forward again. Think of typing with one finger. Lets say you could type 30 words a minute that way. In order to get better you may have to go back to 15 words a minute while typing with your whole hand in order to reach 60 words a minute or possible even more. Without the acknowledgement that the single finger typing is flawed why would I even want to correct it?


So I'll ask you the same question. What's better. To accurately hear yourself and be able to correct it from there? Or to hear yourself speaking perfectly all the while never being able to realize that you sound hideous?

My vote is that the truth, no matter how painful, is ALWAYS better than a self deception or a lie.

[Brutha]

Without the acknowledgement that the single finger typing is flawed why would I even want to correct it?

That question doesn't really include the self image part.

So I'll ask you the same question. What's better. To accurately hear yourself and be able to correct it from there? Or to hear yourself speaking perfectly all the while never being able to realize that you sound hideous?

According to cognitive psychology, having a good self image improves performance. When you think you sound hideous you are more tense then when you think that you have a good voice. As a result the belief accually increases the quality of your voice (we even have here people who believe in IM and could think of a variety of other reasons that your belief increases your performance).
It's a question of prioritising.

[Remiel]

Originally Posted by Brutha

That question doesn't really include the self image part.
According to cognitive psychology, having a good self image improves performance. When you think you sound hideous you are more tense then when you think that you have a good voice. As a result the belief accually increases the quality of your voice (we even have here people who believe in IM and could think of a variety of other reasons that your belief increases your performance).
It's a question of prioritising.

I would tie this back to steve's article Self-Acceptance vs. Personal Growth

To myself there is a need to be brutally honest with where I am NOW. While knowing where I'm going. You said that thinking you sound hideous makes you more tense. Why? You choose your response so if you are more tense because you know you have a horrible voice then I would suggest that its not the horrible voice that is the problem. Its your belief that having a horrible voice is bad or embaressing or something else detrimental. I personally have an untrained voice and it sounded pretty bad (taking voice lessons now hence the past tense). Does this make me tense up? No. It motivates me to learn how to use my voice. Currently I am taking voice lessons to learn how to use my voice and its going swell.

So basically I see a need to be honest with who I am and strive for who I know I can be. So instead of believing that I have a horrible voice I believe I have an untrained voice and simply need to learn how to use it. Self delusion doesn't help me because I don't acknowledge that I have a problem that needs to be fixed. With the voice its even trickier because of how we speak and hear our own voice.


The same idea can be applied anywhere I believe. Being honest with myself is the best gift I can give myself. I know exactly where I am at now. I can then figure out how to improve it if I don't like it.

Self confidence like you mentioned in your response is a whole nother issue. If I don't have confidence in who I am then yes I will be worse than who I could be if I had complete confidence in myself.

[jbsmith]

I would suggest that if you are striving to be a great singer, then you must evaluate your voice as if you were "outside" of yourself -- the more awareness the better decisions you can make about improving.

The key (or trick depending on where you are) is to be able to assess yourself from an objective outsider's point of view - accepting what you are and working on a plan for improvement rather than jumping to subjective, emotionally driven conclusions about your voice, appearance, etc...

I've had great success using meditation and some yoga to be able to bring my own emotional responses into check for any situation - especially how I react to what were highly emotional judgements in the past.

That works for putting an objective plan together then it's always nice to be able to tap into the emotional pain side a little in order to keep the motivation up.

Jeff

[Plato]

Good thread. And the best posts I've read in a while, Remiel.

Is it possible that being honest with ourselves is the foundation of authenticity too?

[Remiel]

Originally Posted by Plato

Good thread. And the best posts I've read in a while, Remiel.

Is it possible that being honest with ourselves is the foundation of authenticity too?

I believe so. I like the perspective in "7 habits of highly effective people". Changes need to be internal before they can manifest externally. I have to become honest in order to be honest with out people. Part of that internal aspect is practicing it externally and yet the focus isn't external, it's internal.

I also believe that most character traits can be seen this way. If I want to have (externally) integrity I must first be (internal) full of integrity. If I want to have courage (external) I must first be (internal) courageous.


To me the process of making something internal requires practicing it. Just like steve described with discipline. Its like a muscle and you have to exercise it. I now see all major (and maybe even minor) characteristics as being muscles. If I want to be more honest I practice (exercise) honesty. If I want to be more disciplined I practice (exercise) discipline. If I want to be more courageous I practice (exercise) courage.

Its that measure of taking a trait you want to have and making it internal by practicing it that is important. I don't beat myself up for failing I simply use failure as a progress bar between where I'm at and where I want to be.


Tying all of this back to what you said

Originally Posted by Plato

Is it possible that being honest with ourselves is the foundation of authenticity too?

YES. Not only that but I see it as being true with every single attribute. I cannot be truely honest with other people if I'm not first honest with myself. If nothing else I'm giving them a fake me because I don't even know the real me. If I don't have integrity with myself how can I possibly have genuinely integrity with others? I can do it for short periods of time much like sprinting (Refer to the discipline series, the section about willpower) and yet if I am not at my core honest, disciplined or I don't have integrity how can I possibly apply those traits long term?

Like I said earlier I believe it's like its a muscle and in order for me to truely be honest I must first exercise it. And the most important person to use that characteristic / attribute with is myself. If I cannot be honest with myself my honesty to others is at best a weak immitation. If I cannot be courageous with myself any external courage is a weak and pale immitation probably more along the lines of bravado. If I cannot have integrity within myself and with myself how can I have integrity with the external things of life?

[Angela]

I think it's fun and useful to boldly look for what I don't know I don't know. The good news is that I'll never run out of it.

One thing you might not know you don't know is that how you look and sound to others reveals something about you that could be a clue to expansion. For instance, in a recording of your voice you might hear timidity or nasality or brusqueness that you aren't able to hear through the bones in your head. And a photograph can reveal to you a tendency in a relationship that you weren't aware of, or show you something about your fitness or vitality that you haven't been alert to from the inside.

So, I don't think the value is so much about in-order-to's (like correcting weaknesses, etc.) but rather, expanded awareness (that might lead you to inspired action, and might not.)

[diamondstilettos]

interesting thread!
it reminded me of a public speaking class i took last year. All of our speaches we did had to be videoed which we were then required to watch and critique. it was SOO hard not to be overly critical of myself but of all the classes I've ever taken, that was the one where I experienced the most personal growth. I decided that my observations had to come from a loving place and that I would stive to focus on my abilities and not who I was at the time. I was at a very emotionallyraw place at the time too so it was such a push to do the class.

Because of that, I think it's a great experience to watch/hear yourself. It gives you a more objective opinion of who you think you are and how you appear to others and allows you to correct your behaviours that you didnt really notice before. it can be a bit humbling too

[Dannyboy1]

Originally Posted by Remiel

I would tie this back to steve's article Self-Acceptance vs. Personal Growth

To myself there is a need to be brutally honest with where I am NOW. While knowing where I'm going. You said that thinking you sound hideous makes you more tense. Why? You choose your response so if you are more tense because you know you have a horrible voice then I would suggest that its not the horrible voice that is the problem. Its your belief that having a horrible voice is bad or embaressing or something else detrimental. I personally have an untrained voice and it sounded pretty bad (taking voice lessons now hence the past tense). Does this make me tense up? No. It motivates me to learn how to use my voice. Currently I am taking voice lessons to learn how to use my voice and its going swell.

So basically I see a need to be honest with who I am and strive for who I know I can be. So instead of believing that I have a horrible voice I believe I have an untrained voice and simply need to learn how to use it. Self delusion doesn't help me because I don't acknowledge that I have a problem that needs to be fixed. With the voice its even trickier because of how we speak and hear our own voice.


The same idea can be applied anywhere I believe. Being honest with myself is the best gift I can give myself. I know exactly where I am at now. I can then figure out how to improve it if I don't like it.

Self confidence like you mentioned in your response is a whole nother issue. If I don't have confidence in who I am then yes I will be worse than who I could be if I had complete confidence in myself.

I don't think it's ever good to say my anything is "horrible". That would never be of help to anyone. "Needs improvement" okay, but using negative language can only dissuade and discourage.

[Remiel]

Originally Posted by Dannyboy1

I don't think it's ever good to say my anything is "horrible". That would never be of help to anyone. "Needs improvement" okay, but using negative language can only dissuade and discourage.

That is exactly my point. The only time the truth is bad is if I believe it is negative in some way. Its basically why I said for myself I believe I have an untrained voice rather than a horrible voice. The belief is a reflection of how I feel about myself and I myself feel pretty good about me. For someone else they might need to address the fact that they view the truth as negative (or potentially negative) in order to be able to benefit from that truth. I hope that makes it a bit clearer.

[Brutha]

You said that thinking you sound hideous makes you more tense. Why? You choose your response so if you are more tense because you know you have a horrible voice then I would suggest that its not the horrible voice that is the problem. Its your belief that having a horrible voice is bad or embaressing or something else detrimental.

No, when it doesn't go that far.
When I think that I should change my voice (and I'm no singer, but a Toastmaster), while I give a speech that takes up mental space.
It's trying to be something else. Trying conflicts with being in the now.
Not being in the now inturn worsens performance.

[Marco Polo]

I would reiterate: the mark of genius is the ability to hold two contradictory thoughts in your head at the same time. Raise awareness to your weakness, and direct your intentions towards strength.

Be highly conscious of your weakness, always. In every situation, show humility. It is by focusing on our greatest weakness that we experience genuine strength.

If I may go off on a tangent, it's often said about falling in love that it's about "making yourself vunerable". Falling in love = being vunerable because you are opening yourself to all kinds of experience; good and bad; euphoria and heartbreak. There can be no strenght without clear juxtaposition to weakness.

[Remiel]

Originally Posted by Brutha

No, when it doesn't go that far.
When I think that I should change my voice (and I'm no singer, but a Toastmaster), while I give a speech that takes up mental space.
It's trying to be something else. Trying conflicts with being in the now.
Not being in the now inturn worsens performance.

That's a bit different. I would argue that if you are not able to both give a speech and work on improving your voice then that is the wrong place to work on your voice. My point still stands on the belief behind the voice. If you have an accurate self image of your voice AND accept it for being what it is then there is no problem whatsoever. Now if you decide to work on your voice, you can. If you really want to improve your voice I highly recommend voice lessons. I'm doing it and finding out alot about the human voice and how it works.


@Marco Polo: I'd argue that the making yourself vulnerable can be applied elsewhere as well. Vulnerable might be the wrong word though. I find I can expose my true self and while some may say that makes me vulnerable. I don't exactly think of it that way. Its the same sort of concept though. I'd basically call it a freedom to fail and a freedom from letting what other people think of you bother you.