Life has NO purpose

[Stephen]

Now you may expect this thread to be one of those threads that detail the personal problems of a member and hope to extract a cure from their peers; but no, I am a happy, healthy individual, with goals and desires like all other positive people.

What I mean is that 'Life' has no puropose. (imho)

Life is just life. Complex carbon behaviour. No 'other side', no external influences' just atomic interaction and chemical reactions. So whats the point? Where does personal effectiveness matter. Does it matter? Well, yes. Experience is everything. Being effective squeezes more out of our short existence than what the masses generally get. Effectiveness increases good experiences.

This I suppose is akin to an Existentialist worldview. ie Nothing matters - 'being' is what is important.

Someone once said, without 'god', everything is possible, or words to that effect. What I translate this to be is by throwing off any old yokes we have, we can free ourselves from unnecessary burdens and stretch out our potential and personal effectiveness.(Remember, morality isnt a religious phenomena. In fact I would argue that religion is divisive and a-moral.)

Just a thought.

Does existentialism broaden your horizons?


PS Not too sure here to post this in the sub-forums, so mods feel free to move if you want.

[Ninja]

Life HAS purpose, but it doesn't have to be big. We're not all destined to become the next Mother Theresa, Michael Jackson, or Hitler. We are here to learn, to experience, to grow. And just by living, you are experiencing new things.

It could be that your calling is something more simple and that, since you're already there, you're happy. But many of us feel like something is missing, and for those of us who discovered their purpose but aren't there yet, learning to be effective can work wonders. How can you ever become a great painter/write a book/raise children/start your own business if you never have the time? By becoming better at PE, you can make that time and live life the way you were supposed to

[Radu]

My first post here, so hello everybody!

I adhere to the existentialist point of view and, though I was bred a Christian, I've been an agnostic for quite a while now. (ever since I reached the age of reason )

I think that the very concept of "purpose" is a human invention - it is artificial and non-existent outside human societies. It's easy to tell: can you picture a walrus contemplating the purpose of life? The only reason we do and other animals do not, is simply that we're smarter. I believe there is no qualitative difference between humans and animals - the difference is quantitative, meaning there's nothing special about us: our intellects are just more evolved.

Another argument in this sense is offered by past experience. Namely, the evolution of humanity from a place of disdainful arrogance (believing the Earth to be the center of the Universe and humans to be the ultimate purpose of Creation itself) to one of enlightened modesty. We now have a vague sense of proportion and we're just coming to realize how utterly insignificant we are in relation to the breadth and complexity of the Universe.

Knowing what we know today, I think one has to be rather conceited to still believe that there is some great purpose for each individual human life, when even the importance of the human species, of Earth itself, of our galaxy even, is questionable given the immensity of Space.

So I agree with Stephen. We decide our own "purpose" - not to be mistaken for "destiny".
We should seek that which makes us feel happy and fulfilled and avoid that which makes us feel sad and empty. To me, that's the bottom line of our species' plain, meandering existence

[shivraj]

Life is what you give meaning to it. If you think life has no purpose, it becomes true for you.

[Plato]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Does existentialism broaden your horizons?

You are an existentialist. How broad are your horizons?

[ZHereford]

Originally Posted by Stephen

What I mean is that 'Life' has no puropose. (imho)

Actually Stephen this sounds more like a nihilist point of view - i.e. that nothing matters.

As for existentialism, people often have the mistaken notion that it's contrary to a belief in God. Not at all. You can be agnostic, atheist or deist and still be an existentialist such as Kant was.

We have the freedom of mind to find meaning or lack of it in anything we choose. Life is as meaningful/meaningless as you allow it to be. I prefer to find meaning in it, especially in the beauty of music, art and nature and in man's ability to transcend himself.

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by Stephen

What I mean is that 'Life' has no puropose. (imho)

Life is just life. Complex carbon behaviour. No 'other side', no external influences' just atomic interaction and chemical reactions. So whats the point? Where does personal effectiveness matter. Does it matter? Well, yes. Experience is everything. Being effective squeezes more out of our short existence than what the masses generally get. Effectiveness increases good experiences.

This seems contradictory. "Life has not purpose" and but "Personal effectiveness and experience matters". If there's not purpose - then nothing would matter but you say experience matter. Or that's to say the purpose is experience.

This I suppose is akin to an Existentialist worldview. ie Nothing matters - 'being' is what is important.

That's what makes existentialism blow up on itself. It proposes that nothing matters but then makes a statement that something does matter.

Someone once said, without 'god', everything is possible, or words to that effect. What I translate this to be is by throwing off any old yokes we have, we can free ourselves from unnecessary burdens and stretch out our potential and personal effectiveness.(Remember, morality isnt a religious phenomena. In fact I would argue that religion is divisive and a-moral.)

Who said that, without 'god' everything is possible? If without god means casting off old yokes - that is not what being with god is. Being with God is Being, is having experience with consciousness. Now tossing out religion I'd agree with - that's just someone else's interpretation of Being and won't get you there - it's very individualistic.

Just a thought.

Does existentialism broaden your horizons?

I'd have to know more what it means to think existentially. But in one way it means to acknowledge existence or the material world, right? Well, I suppose that could be taken to mean the 3d world can't be ignored anyway, so roll with it. And even though I keep looking for spirit and soul, and seeing glimpses of 3d not being the whole ball of wax - I still don't think the illusion of the 3d world goes away. The illusion exists (as an illusion).

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by Radu

My first post here, so hello everybody!

Welcome to the fray!

Knowing what we know today, I think one has to be rather conceited to still believe that there is some great purpose for each individual human life, when even the importance of the human species, of Earth itself, of our galaxy even, is questionable given the immensity of Space.

When I think there is a grander purpose to my life, it is a humbling feeling - not feeling conceited. It is the very vastness of space and galaxies that make me feel humble as an individual. But then to feel a background of oneness seems to indicate some bigger order to life that we are part of.

So I agree with Stephen. We decide our own "purpose" - not to be mistaken for "destiny".

Purpose maybe over rated as is free will. We think we have free will - but how do we really know we do? Of coarse we shouldn't act as if we don't have our own minds.

We should seek that which makes us feel happy and fulfilled and avoid that which makes us feel sad and empty. To me, that's the bottom line of our species' plain, meandering existence

Sometimes I think we are our own worse enemies. Trying to make ourselves happy and avoiding being sad may actually leave us empty and unfulfilled - unless we feel connected and conscious it is a meandering.

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by shivraj

Life is what you give meaning to it. If you think life has no purpose, it becomes true for you.

EVen if you think life has no purpose - that become the purpose. "My purpose is to act as if there is no purpose"!

[ken nubo]

Personally I think we don't have any real life purpose. So we make up our own.

But who said we need a life purpose anyways. I think to experience all the wonderful things life has to offer is enough. There is no need to get all wrapped up in a all concept of a high and mighty life purpose.

[agnostic]

If you think you have a purpose or if your think you have none, you are right (within the limits of your own brain, but that's always the case even though we all forget it all the time).

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by ZHereford

Actually Stephen this sounds more like a nihilist point of view - i.e. that nothing matters.

As for existentialism, people often have the mistaken notion that it's contrary to a belief in God. Not at all. You can be agnostic, atheist or deist and still be an existentialist such as Kant was.

We have the freedom of mind to find meaning or lack of it in anything we choose. Life is as meaningful/meaningless as you allow it to be. I prefer to find meaning in it, especially in the beauty of music, art and nature and in man's ability to transcend himself.

Hi Mate

Yes I am aware of the personally held beliefs of different existentialist thinkers. Søren Kierkegaard was a devout christain and Nietzsche was atheist for example.

I agree, not suprisingly, with Radu. Humans are arrogant. Eating sentient animals unnecessarily, fighting over who believes in the 'real' god, stripping the planet as if we were the last generation to populate it, believeing that life has a purpose. So what is the purpose of the head louse? Or is it merely an organism that breeds and survives; enjoying life as it satisfies its blood thirst?

Because humans are self aware and capable of calculation and reflection we invent things to make our lives less brutal.

Gods.....Jesus, Apollo, Zeus, Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Death....Reincarnation, After Life, Ghosts, Heaven, Hell.

It goes on and on. It really appears to me, we will delude ourselves as much as large bird will stick its head in the sand.

Hugo said..."The soul does not give up to despair until it has exhausted all illusions"


How true.

Marx said...."Die Religion ... ist das Opium des Volkes" translated as "Religion is the opiate of the people"

We are deluding ourselves.

Life has no purpose other than being.

Therefore, isnt it more productive to embrace the reality of life and not waste our time; such little time, on such matters that only fool us?

Its not nihilism; its not hedonism, its pragmatism.

[uberinquisitive]

Originally Posted by Plato

You are an existentialist. How broad are your horizons?

So true.

[Freelancer]

Life has no purpose other than being.

funny so the purpose of life is being yes?
Sounds a crapload like eastern philosophy, you know Buddhisme and the like. Or Eckhart Tolle if you prefer or perhaps Alan Watts if you like that guy more. Personally I prefer Alan Watts.

[jonarmis]

I am an eclectic I must say. I am a fusion of all thinking, theories and beliefs surrounding me. Although I respect other people's view of life, soul and spirit, but extentialism for me is quite pessimistic.

I'd like to think that life is always with a purpose, it is here not merely for personal or material self-gratification. Anyway, just my two cents!

[Kura Ookami]

I disagree. Life does have a purpose and for me that purpose is to give more than I get. It's a simple idea, though difficult at times to put into practice.

[ZHereford]

Originally Posted by Stephen

We are deluding ourselves.

Life has no purpose other than being.

Therefore, isnt it more productive to embrace the reality of life and not waste our time; such little time, on such matters that only fool us?

Its not nihilism; its not hedonism, its pragmatism.

Hey Stephen - says who on all of the above? I appreciate that that's your view and so be it. I disagree.

Have a look at my Philosophy and Personal Development where I quote William Ralph Inge who said: "The object of studying philosophy is to know one’s own mind, not other people's".

The beauty of it is that we can each think and believe what we want and we can decide what has meaning for us.

Humans are arrogant. Eating sentient animals unnecessarily...

As for your point on our eating animals (I happen to be a vegetarian anyway), they are just as conscious and alive as vegetables and fruit. In the animal kingdom there are animals that do prey on and eat other animals. It's the natural order of things.

Just because you don't know what the purpose of life is, it doesn't meant there isn't one. It's possible that our human minds are limited in their capability to grasp existence beyond our self-centered arrogance.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Kura Ookami

I disagree. Life does have a purpose and for me that purpose is to give more than I get.

Impossible; that violates the first law of thermodynamics.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by ZHereford

Hey Stephen - says who on all of the above? I appreciate that that's your view and so be it.

Is this a question or a statement? Of course its my view!

The natural order of things doesnt come in to play when humans are involved. thats why we have laws. Its natural for males to inseminate females with sperm. However there are laws to protect the vulnerable in society so that your granny isnt humped on the way home from the bingo. And so, my point about eating sentient creatures. It might be natural to eat, but is it right? There are other choices that avoid killing, farming, skinning, wearing animals that respects their right to life. Is factory farming natural?

Conscious vegetables? Hardly. They have no central nervous system, they are evolved in such a manner that they can be consumed and deposited as their seeds in dung to populate again. They are not the type of thing that is conscious or ever could be. Straw man; nice try.

[Louise Gilbert]

Does a blade of grass wonder what its purpose is? Does a bird wake up, concerned or depressed that it is off-track, without no purpose or meaning in its life? No (as far as we know :O)), they just are. The difference being is that we have the 'gift' of being conscious of our consciousness - we cannot know what it means to be 'connected' unless we have experienced what it is to be 'disconnected'. We cannot know light, unless we knew dark etc etc

Our primary purpose may be to come to be the truth in this lifetime. Discovering such truth does not end the debate. We are still human (otherwise we would not have form, so it is also just as true that we have this limitation to deal with) and we are coming to terms too, with what that means. There is a universal truth within us, a life-force that is one, yet we are all so unique in our human-ness Can we align the two in balance, and in harmony?

Louise

[ZHereford]

Originally Posted by Stephen

The natural order of things doesnt come in to play when humans are involved. thats why we have laws.

That depends. Humans have the capability to reason so the natural of order is to figure out what's in the best interests of all involved.

Conscious vegetables? Hardly.

Everything has consciousness, even a rock.

Straw man; nice try.

Are you making the assumption that I'm a man?

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by ZHereford

Are you making the assumption that I'm a man?

Look up 'straw man'....google it.

(BTW if your being humorous, let us know by using a smiley)

[ZHereford]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Look up 'straw man'....google it.

(BTW if your being humorous, let us know by using a smiley)

So what is your point?

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by ZHereford

So what is your point?

....groan

[ZHereford]

Originally Posted by Stephen

....groan

Oh, of course, silly me - life has no purpose!

[astra]

IMO, the only broad purpose to life, that applies to everything living, is to evolve. Our individual purpose is something we choose ourselves (wether we consciously choose it our not). Although I do try not to think about these things too indepth, because it tends to be quite mind-boggling as you go further down the track, and then I can't sleep for worrying about the sheer miracle of existence. Which usually leads to me wondering if we do exist at all, or if we're just an illusion. Makes my head hurt just thinking about it really.

[Radu]

The Universe is infinitely big. We are infinitely small. As such, there is no reason to believe that we have any Grand Purpose, because we cannot possibly affect anything on the grand scale of the Universe.

We have all of the basic functions and needs of other species of animals. (ie. breathing, eating, homeostasis, sex etc.) We differ from other animals in that we are more intelligent and we are capable of reason. We were not always so - we just evolved and became gradually smarter.

This is why I believe we would have to be arrogant to assume that us humans have some Grand Purpose to fulfill. However, do not confuse the idea of a Grand Purpose (such as being an instrument in some divine plan or some other nonsense) with that of a purpose that we set for ourselves.

Neither I nor Stephen (if I understand him correctly) are denying the latter.

For myself, I'm just saying that we're not meant to do anything. That there is no grand scheme of things in which we are to play a certain part. That no god created us for any specific reason.

Rather, by our actions, we ourselves create a reason, a purpose for our existence.

Of course, I have nothing against anyone believing that they're a part of some divine plan. It may even be true -- we may all be a part of some divine plan. But that this should actually be true - is extremely unlikely.

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by Radu

The Universe is infinitely big. We are infinitely small. As such, there is no reason to believe that we have any Grand Purpose, because we cannot possibly affect anything on the grand scale of the Universe.

How is purpose related to our individual ability to affect anything on the grand scale? How do you know that your actions don't effect the grand scale?

We have all of the basic functions and needs of other species of animals. (ie. breathing, eating, homeostasis, sex etc.) We differ from other animals in that we are more intelligent and we are capable of reason. We were not always so - we just evolved and became gradually smarter.

I think the other way around. Animals are must smarter than us. We are very much less capable. Dog hear better. Eagles see better. Dolphins swim swifter. Being intellectually smarter has just gotten us into trouble with mother earth and other humans, and not much else.

This is why I believe we would have to be arrogant to assume that us humans have some Grand Purpose to fulfill. However, do not confuse the idea of a Grand Purpose (such as being an instrument in some divine plan or some other nonsense) with that of a purpose that we set for ourselves.

The purpose is not to be arrogant. The purpose is be to humble.

Neither I nor Stephen (if I understand him correctly) are denying the latter.

If you deny something you are closing down the awe of nature and what is. We all had it as children and society trained us to not see the awe all around us - that is sad.

For myself, I'm just saying that we're not meant to do anything. That there is no grand scheme of things in which we are to play a certain part. That no god created us for any specific reason.

What ever it is you are doing is what is your purpose. You purpose comes from what you identify with or what you don't identify with. If you identify with making your ego happy, then that becomes a purpose - and is also what the divine wants. There's no escaping what is. It's all a grand scheme and we play the roles and parts that we go through - even when we pretend there isn't a plan, that's the plan too.

Rather, by our actions, we ourselves create a reason, a purpose for our existence.

The paradox is that we think we are creating our own plan out of the illusion of being a separate being. When deep down it's Being coming through us experiencing stuff through a focused and constricted point of view.

Of course, I have nothing against anyone believing that they're a part of some divine plan. It may even be true -- we may all be a part of some divine plan. But that this should actually be true - is extremely unlikely.

There's no proof for the divine plan other than there is no way to take the present moment for what it is. It is divine, even the so called illusions that are not to be clinging to. 3d matter is ultimately divine too. The illusion is that we are separate from it all.

[Sam988]

As i always say, life has no more purpose than what we give it.

[Kika]

I don´t believe that we as humans have a grand purpose to fulfill, written down somewhere. But to have your own personal purpose defined for yourself I´ve found very valuable.

Defining one´s purpose in life (that individual one) is not a point itself, but it´s helpful to have when you go further into giving your life a direction!
It´s all about defining that dream, that vision and goals for our life. But what lies behind the dream/vision?
Why is it your dream/vision?

Dreams, visions and goals (your WHAT) should come from your true purpose in life - your WHY.

Without your purpose identified firmly in your mind, you will easily wander through life, never quite feeling that you're "in the flow".

We all have a unique purpose; that unique set of talents, skills, passions and interests that seem to naturally unfold, simply because they are in resonance with something within us.

So how do you discover your unique purpose?

One of the first things to determine is what you value the most. Your values represent what is important to you and they indicate what you express on an emotional, mental and spiritual level. When you become aware of your values and find a way to express them through your life, you will feel aligned with your inner driving force.

And, for those afraid of anything permanently defined - you are free to change your purpose as you wish