How to be independent in a society?

[GreenLife]

Hi. I have a problem and I don't know how to solve it.
When I alone I control all my minds, write daily and weekly plans and comprehend every minute of my life. But when I start to tell with somebody this control always disappears, so it's very difficult to me to keep in mind all my plans in this situation. In other words, it's difficult to protect minds from socium. I work hardly if I alone but I spend my time not so productively in socium.
I found one way to reduce this influence: when I have a talk with somebody I imagine him as "alien", who has minds and feels which are absolutely not similar to mine. Thus I put myself in mental loneliness and it helps me, however I spend many forces for it, therefore I again lose the control over time. How I can get out from this?
Thanks. (sorry for my bad English)

[Brutha]

Why do you feel the need to be independent?

Maybe you should try to get people around you that have the positive characteristics that you want to have?

Some time ago I read a quote from James Watson who said: Never be the smartest person in the room.

[Plato]

Hi Greenlife. I know what you mean- sometimes it's easy to get sucked into thinking the same way the people around you do. The key to not letting this happen comes down to leadership qualities. The leader of the group is the person with the strongest sense of what is good and bad- they don't need other's approval for what to think. You need to be that guy if you want to maintain your own beliefs when you're around others and then other people will be sucked into your way of thinking rather than what you're currently experiencing.

Originally Posted by Brutha

Some time ago I read a quote from James Watson who said: Never be the smartest person in the room.

Yeah but he might just be saying nobody likes a smartass. Oh, woops

[GreenLife]

Thank you, Brutha, but I don't feel the need to be indepented, I can't be concentrated on my plans when I surrounded by other people. Thus independence is a consequence of aspiration to keep some thoughts.

Plato, you really understand me! But the society is the huge and powerful machine which operates by synergetical principles and I cannot turn it as I think right. You are right, but a leader is also a person who feels moods of a group and guesses its actions, therefore it is necessary to be independent of it, but it's very hard sometimes. Nevertheless I trust that it is possible to get out of each vicious circle)

[maxdof]

Originally Posted by GreenLife

I found one way to reduce this influence: when I have a talk with somebody I imagine him as "alien", who has minds and feels which are absolutely not similar to mine.

Hi, from what I understand you convince yourself that whatever they think, it will not touch you in any way.
This is a caracteristic of being proactive, which is the first habit to adopt to be highly effective in your life, personnal and professional.
The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
As Eleanor Roosevelt observed, "No one can hurt you without your consent." In the words of Gandhi, "They cannot take away our self respect if we do not give it to them." It is our willing permission, our consent to what happens to us, that hurts us far more than what happens to us in the first place.

What do you think?

[Brutha]

Yeah but he might just be saying nobody likes a smartass. Oh, woops

No, it's a incontext quote.

If you are with other people you will pick up some of their thoughts.

There are times to be alone and fully focus one one thing and their are times when it's better to be open for new things.
The key is to be around people that impact you in a positive way.

[GreenLife]

I agree with you, maxdof, but there is one very important point - the need to be understood. "Being proactive means taking responsibility for every aspect of your life" - it is true of course, but creating the layer of the power of free will "between stimulus and response" we feel the need to be understood, otherwise the feel of loneliness begin to press us. Thus we need one power to protect minds from others and another power to protect from the feel of loneliness. What do you think?

[Plato]

Originally Posted by Brutha

The key is to be around people that impact you in a positive way.

I agree. I also agree with your point that independence from a group is not desirable. I do think however that if you have a strong sense of reality you will influence those around you more than they influence you. But for sure, the value of spending time with virtuous people is more than worth the effort to find them.

[GreenLife]

Brutha, we are in small collectives and there is no opportunity to spend a lot of time to search friend, who can understand me. In other words: if I cann't choose my environment temporarily - what to do?

[Plato]

Originally Posted by GreenLife

Brutha, we are in small collectives and there is no opportunity to spend a lot of time to search friend, who can understand me. In other words: if I cann't choose my environment temporarily - what to do?

As much as I hate Nike they've got one thing right. JUST DO IT

[GreenLife]

Plato, I really have a strong sense of reality and I can influence those around me, but I need to be understood sometimes because it is impossible to explain to people that you wish to help them. Must I explain it to them? I don't think so.

[maxdof]

Greenlife,
May I ask where does the will to be understood come?
And what is the feeling created by the fact of not being understood?
Cheers

[Brutha]

I do think however that if you have a strong sense of reality you will influence those around you more than they influence you.

Having a strong sense of reality is certainly desireable but whether you influence the people around you more than they influence you or the other way around you also depends on their sense of reality. At best you should have people of high quality around you who have a strong sense of reality.

[GreenLife]

I think our consciousness is formed of two components - communications and thinking. In turn the first forms the second, therefore it is possible to image everyone as a result of communications. Thus the single source of the need to be understood - are ideas which are not supported by a dialogue.
For example, the leader influences others only because others subconsciously allow him to do it, and thus they influence him. They admire his qualities, but these qualities are products of their submission. All is interconnected. But when ideas which are not fixed by interrelations will spring, there is the need to be understood.

For example, you are surrounded by people who simply don’t understand you and there is no sense to explain it to them. There are two ways in this situation: or just change the environment (thank you, Brutha), or forget those ideas which are incongruous with this collective. I don’t intend to choose the second way, but the first is too complex for "Just do it!" (thanks for Plato and Nike ).

[Freelancer]

Originally Posted by GreenLife

I think our consciousness is formed of two components - communications and thinking. In turn the first forms the second, therefore it is possible to image everyone as a result of communications. Thus the single source of the need to be understood - are ideas which are not supported by a dialogue.
For example, the leader influences others only because others subconsciously allow him to do it, and thus they influence him. They admire his qualities, but these qualities are products of their submission. All is interconnected. But when ideas which are not fixed by interrelations will spring, there is the need to be understood.

For example, you are surrounded by people who simply don’t understand you and there is no sense to explain it to them. There are two ways in this situation: or just change the environment (thank you, Brutha), or forget those ideas which are incongruous with this collective. I don’t intend to choose the second way, but the first is too complex for "Just do it!" (thanks for Plato and Nike ).

Usually I give long ass answers to these type of questions.
Trying to answer them in writing.

This time around, I'm just going to recommend that you buy and watch The Blueprint from real social dynamics (google it).
It ain't cheap, so only buy it if you are really serious about this...

What your asking about here ain't easy to answer in a forum...
Tyler answers these questions in The Blueprint completely and in depth. Its a recording from a 4-day (!!) seminar that pretty much talk non-stop about these subjects.

[Plato]

Originally Posted by Freelancer

This time around, I'm just going to recommend that you buy and watch The Blueprint from real social dynamics (google it).
It ain't cheap, so only buy it if you are really serious about this...

What your asking about here ain't easy to answer in a forum...
Tyler answers these questions in The Blueprint completely and in depth. Its a recording from a 4-day (!!) seminar that pretty much talk non-stop about these subjects.

Seconded. If I had it my way the blueprint would be taught to kids in school.

[GreenLife]

Originally Posted by Plato

Seconded. If I had it my way the blueprint would be taught to kids in school.

I hadn't heard about The Blueprint, but what what do you think about #14, tell please, Plato

[maxdof]

Originally Posted by Freelancer

This time around, I'm just going to recommend that you buy and watch The Blueprint from real social dynamics (google it).
It ain't cheap, so only buy it if you are really serious about this...

I have heard many good things about real social dynamics.

[maxdof]

Originally Posted by Freelancer

Usually I give long ass answers to these type of questions.

Where ?

[maxdof]

Originally Posted by GreenLife

I agree with you, maxdof, but there is one very important point - the need to be understood. "Being proactive means taking responsibility for every aspect of your life" - it is true of course, but creating the layer of the power of free will "between stimulus and response" we feel the need to be understood, otherwise the feel of loneliness begin to press us. Thus we need one power to protect minds from others and another power to protect from the feel of loneliness. What do you think?

Hey Greenlife, I tried to answer your question by another question, but it didn't work

I think 2 things:

• being proactive, when applied to the most, makes you independent from your environment, which cannot touch you in any way.
• of course i can talk about the same book, habit 5, "Seek first to understand, then to be understood" where it is told that the most powerful way to influence people, be understood, is to give them the feeling that you understand them. It seems that in your case, it might not be enough, so I would advise you to
  • either change your environment, by being proactive, for exemple, those people might be reactive and they will begin to understand you only when they will become proactive, when you will make them become proactive,
  • or to change of environment..

[Freelancer]

Originally Posted by maxdof

Where ?

Either your blind or your being funny.

Dumb ass forums.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by GreenLife

Hi. I have a problem and I don't know how to solve it.
When I alone I control all my minds, write daily and weekly plans and comprehend every minute of my life. But when I start to tell with somebody this control always disappears, so it's very difficult to me to keep in mind all my plans in this situation.

So don't tell people then!

No, seriously. Other people will often criticise your ideas to "be helpful" or "protect you".

Also, I don't know about you, but once I've described an idea to someone else, my brain seems to put an "completed" tick against that idea, like I've transferred ownership of it.

If you want to pursue your idea yourself, keep it to yourself - and pursue it.

P.S. Being in or out of society isn't a lifetime choice. You can claim some time for yourself to do things, then reimmerse yourself in society. We need both together time and alone time.

[ken nubo]

I'll leave you with this passage from a Zen Text:

"The blue sky and mountain co-exist. They are dependent on each other yet independent"

It's good to ponder on it.

[GreenLife]

Originally Posted by ken nubo

"The blue sky and mountain co-exist. They are dependent on each other yet independent"

Beautiful words. Thanks you guys