Struggling at University

[JoeBlogs]

Hi everyone,

I'm in my third and final year of an engineering degree and am struggling with the work. Very early on in my degree I realised that I did not like it, but I didn't make the correct decision to change course, I just forced myself to carry on.

So now I'm in the situation where I might as well complete the course and get my degree as it is far too late to change, but I have a huge amount of difficult work to do, none of which interests me and which I am trying to learn on top of a very poor foundation. ie. I stumbled through the first two years so I don't feel that I know the basics well enough.

I'm not sure what to do.

How should I organise myself and my time?

How can I motivate myself to put in hours of work when I don't want to and it will be very difficult?

And I don't really know where to start. I have 9 subjects and a major project to do. The main thing I am behind in, I think, is 3 of the subjects. Though I don't feel particularly confident in any of them.

Any suggestions?

[Ati]

Great that you're willing to look at your situation this way!

Lots of people don't seem to even question themselves and wind up in a miserable spiral.

From what you've said, I wonder if it would be better to "cut your losses" and get into something else, with the foundation that you do have, something you like better, even if it takes longer--- or if a better way would be to finish it up already?

Does this mean the rest of this semester ending in December with one more semester to go? If that's the case, do you have a reasonable chance of finishing up in this time period?

If you finish this up by spring, can you get into a grad program or use the engineering in some way that you do like?

Seems real important to get to something that you do like as quickly as you can, while still making use of all you've put in. At the same time, you are asking about organizing yourself and your time--those skills will help in everything you do, no?

Maybe something you'll get out of this situation is just that: the skill to do something you don't like in a well balanced, well organized, efficient and successful manner while maintaining your joyfulness in life. How about that as a possible outcome?

I am going to look at something called simpleology, it's on a reply to a thread I started on this board titled something to do with "a project".

I think you'll find a lot of helpful things here...

all best of luck to you and keep us posted!

Ati

[geekchic9]

Hi, JoeBlogs,

Your situation reminds me of mine a few years back, except it was an English degree. I tried to change it to something else, but it didn't work out. Eventually, I simply decided just to finish with the English degree. It was difficult, but I did it.

The first thing to remember is that practically everyone feels discouraged in their last year, whether they love their major or not. They just want to have the degree. You are not alone in your senioritis.

What I did was recruit my family and friends to get me through the mess. I called them, and they motivated me each day. The next day, I would call on them again, and they would motivate me again. Steve Pavlina used motivational tapes and time-management tapes each day, and he got through his degree extremely quickly. There are lots of resources out there, including this site, for getting through things that require self-discipliine. In fact, I think there's a series of articles on this web site on the subject.

I also explored hobbies. I have a lot of interest in personal development and organizational management, so I read books on those topics. They kept me sane through a time where I was so totally sick of reading literature.

Most importantly, I've learned that all of my skills, including the ones I got through slugging through English, have been used later. Even though you probably won't become an engineer, those math, science, and logic skills will most likely come in handy later. Education never goes to waste.

Good luck.

[Cassie]

Hi JoeBlogs. My friend is in the same situation as you right now. She's almost finished with her Masters program, so for her its even more difficult to change her route. But also keep in mind that it's always worth pursuing the things you're passionate about. Think how miserable you'll feel if you realize 10 or 15 years into your career that you really truly hate it. It's never too late to change paths in life.

[ahimel]

Originally Posted by JoeBlogs

So now I'm in the situation where I might as well complete the course and get my degree as it is far too late to change, but I have a huge amount of difficult work to do, none of which interests me and which I am trying to learn on top of a very poor foundation. ie. I stumbled through the first two years so I don't feel that I know the basics well enough.

A proverb I always try to remember but often have trouble implementing is,
"No matter how far you have gone down the wrong road, go back."

I'd say the critical point is that, even if you get the degree, your pain's not over. You'd then feel obligated to get a job using the degree, which you'd hate, and not excel at, because you hate it and didn't pay attention in school because you hated it. But you'd do it for a few years, and all of your job experience would be in that career, so you'd feel obligated to continue to get jobs in that career, and hate it, until 20 or 30 or 40 years down the road, you'd wake up and say, "I hate my job! And by extention, my life! I'm going to change careers!" And you'll go through the loss of income, and the struggle to learn a new career and job skills and find a job when you have no experience in the field. And you'll say, "Why didn't I just change degrees back in University? I wish I could go back and do it over."

*POOF* Wish granted! Right now you can make that choice, and do it correctly.

So the question you have to ask yourself is, "If I continue on this path, will my life get better?" If you think you can find a job that you'll like with this degree, by all means slog through it to improve your life in a year or two. But if the result I described above seems more likely, then turn around and slog through the pain of another 3 years of university, in order to have a worthwhile career when you get to the end. You're going to make the change; the only question is whether you do it now, when it's painful, or later, when it's REALLY painful.

But maybe you don't know. Maybe you're not sure whether you'd like to be an engineer or not. In that case .... most universities have an option for taking a year or two off; they'll put your degree on hold, and when you come back you can pick up right where you left off. See if you can explore new things, try shadowing different people in different job types, learn hobbies you've always wanted to try, and see what you find fulfilling. If, like geekchick, you find that your original subject always held your heart, that your frustration was just due to 3 intense years of study, then go finish the degree. But if you find something totally different that really inspires you, have the courage to make the change.

[RT Wolf]

In my view, you've got a few major problems to tackle (if you do choose to go ahead and complete the degree).

1. Lack of motivation: I think taking a hobby or something similar may help. And like others have said, motivational audio programs and etc may help you become more motivated.
2. Not sure about the basics: This is the sorta stuff that you can only feel better about by going back to the basics. This will mean more work, but you can accomplish it fairly fast and the boost in confidence may help give you more motivation. Grab a few of your first and second year books, and start reading them, answer a few questions for every chapter (just to double check that you've got an understanding of it). If you get stuck, study more
3. Organization: If you haven't done so, Getting Things Done is a wonderful system for organizing the minutae and the higher-level stuff. Find out exactly what you want to do and how you want to do it.
4. Energy (this is sorta tied to motivation): See, the way I look at it is like this, if you have lots and lots of energy, you're expending less (percentage wise) of your energy on your current work. For example, say all your work requires an energy level of 10 and all you have is an energy level of 10, you'll feel stressed cause your work is taking up 100% of your energy. However, if you have an energy level of 100, then doing tasks that require an energy level of 10 are much easier to do.

There are many ways to improve your energy level including, waking up at the same time every day, excersizing regularly, eating properly (odn't have to go vegan, just eat well) and a few other similar things.

Good luck!

Edit:

For Organization, this quotation may help: "In any moment of decision the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing." by Roosevelt. What I'm getting at is that you may not know where to start, so just start at whatever. Flip a coin if you have to. Once you've committed yourself to a course of action, you'll feel better (committment tendancy, see sig).

[ChampionsChoice]

Hey there Joe,


You seem to have a strog distaste for engineering and the school work in general. If this is the case, you've spent a couple of years on it already. Do you really want to go through a whole year of something you will rarely if ever apply in your life? What will be the point?

Unless the pain of not completing this thing you started which you no longer care for outweighs all the grueling work you'll be doing with a lack of motivation-- I'd just say f-it. LIke the above set, just wrack it up as a learning experience and MOVE ON. Nip a bad situation in the bud, and go find or do something your passionate about! It will fill you with motivation and joy, you will feel more aligned with yourself, and be closer to living in your fullness as a person.

[Erik Mazzone]

Wow, all of the prior posts have contained great advice!

I would add only this: you have identified that you've climbed 3/4 of the way up a ladder, only to realize it was placed against the wrong wall. Just guessing, I would say it would be hard to throw a rock around these parts and not hit someone who has had the same experience.

I had 3 years of law school and 10 years of practicing law before I finally left, and I totally agree with Ahimel's point that it did not get any easier to quit as time went by. Quite the opposite, actually. I knew in my first year of law school that that was not the place for me, but I kept gutting it out. Having done it, I feel like I made the best of the situation and certainly learned a lot, but I don't know that I would repeat the process, given the option . . .

So, I've got no words of wisdom about how to keep climbing the ladder (staying motivated, managing your time, etc), just a cautionary tale about how long that climb can go if you're not careful.

Good luck!

[turbosaab]

Working towards my computer science degree, I was in a similar situation the last couple of years. I had realized that the two main aspects of computer science, math and programming, not only didn't really interest me but I wasn't very good. This really hit home when we did some group projects and I felt clueless.

Like you, I realized it was too late to change and that I'd gone far enough down the road that I might as well go to the end. I stuck it out and managed to get through the remaining courses and graduate with a decent GPA ("honors" actually).

Three years later, I am happy that I finished the degree, and realize that I did have some interest in the subject matter but was sick and tired of going to school. Some of the things I learned, which seemed useless to me at the time, are coming in handy. Knowing that my diploma and the learning behind it will help me get a job if I ever need to is very empowering.

I know I didn't really address your questions directly (how should you organize and motivate yourself), but I thought I might be able to reassure you that it's not a complete waste of time, even if it seems that way right now.

One practical idea - if you could hire a good tutor, helping you get through the crap and keeping you motivated would be worth a lot.

[JoeBlogs]

Wow, thankyou very much for all of these great replies! Every single one has been genuinely interesting and very helpful!

I have decided that I am going to continue this degree to the end of this year. It's nearly december now and my exams are in may, I *will* get *something* out of it, even if it's just a piece of paper saying that I didn't do particularly well in an engineering degree! At least it shows that I did an engineering degree, ok I won't be able to impress employers with my technical knowledge, but I can at least explain skills I learnt from it, group speaking, report writing, working in teams, maths, logic, etc...

ahimel raised an interesting point about not allowing this "pain" to continue past the end of my degree. I think I will avoid this by studying something else next year, which I will hopefully choose wisely and enjoy, then hopefully pursue a career in that area.
It will probably just be a one year masters course. This could also work quite well for motivation as I will need to at least do ok in my current degree to have a chance of getting onto the course I want.

I have also started making other changes in my life, I've quit my part time job so that I no longer have as many distractions from university work, started looking at methods of planning my time and am attempting to become an early riser and reduce my sleeping hours (whilst still maintaining a healthy level) in order to be up and ready to work when I'd normally be lay in bed for hours!

My diet basically consists of microwave meals and pizza...so I might have to take a look at that as suggested by RT Wolf a couple of posts ago!

Thankyou very much for all your replies, they are very valuable. I will keep you posted about how things go, and if anyone else has anything to add then I am still definitely open to suggestions/advice.

[Hsiang-Lin]

Hi JoeBlogs,

I'm actually in a very similar situation as yourself. I'm currently a first-year graduate student in the direct PhD program for electrical engineering, but I realized that I don't want to do research work for the rest of my life.

This caused me a lot of mental conflict and agony for weeks, but now I feel I have reached a medium point. My advice is to continue to do what you need to do and think about what you really want to do. And the funny thing is, I found what I really wanted through a highly unexpected process so keep your mind open to ideas of HOW you will be able to find your true path.

Like you, I'm already behind in my courses and actually failing in one course. Yet, I feel as motivated as ever. I know what my future goal is now and all this studying and working is now just a means to that end. Also, I have the mentality that since I'm already pretty much in rock-bottom, I'm now gonna struggle to become one of the best EEs! It sounds crazy, but that new, seemingly impossible goal really motivates me.

Right now I'm redoing a test a got a 20/100 on LOL. But I ain't lettin' nothin' stop me. I don't care if it takes years to get to where I want. Like Brian Tracy said, "Never consider the possibility of failure." Screw you engineering work! I'm gonna learn the ************ outta you if it takes years!!! (haha sorry for that crazy rant)

[ahimel]

Originally Posted by JoeBlogs

It's nearly december now and my exams are in may, I *will* get *something* out of it, even if it's just a piece of paper saying that I didn't do particularly well in an engineering degree! At least it shows that I did an engineering degree

And in the US, in my experience at least, employers don't care nearly as much which degree you have, only that you have a degree. Its only purpose is to demonstrate that you can put up with all the BS the university piles one you, and don't give up after the first (or third... or twentieth) tough spot.

I have also started making other changes in my life, I've quit my part time job so that I no longer have as many distractions from university work, started looking at methods of planning my time and am attempting to become an early riser and reduce my sleeping hours (whilst still maintaining a healthy level) in order to be up and ready to work when I'd normally be lay in bed for hours!

Sounds like you have a good plan. Congratulations, and good luck!

[scottyp]

I think I have wasted a lot of time in school. I have a DEC in social science from CEGEP (kind of like community college, 2 year course).. Took a while to get that.

I'm in University now but I am very unsure what I want to do at this point, I am thinking about transferring programs (from music to some kind of multimedia program, since I can't deal with music theory).

I've been "coasting" way too long with school, I'm just lucky that school in quebec is very cheap. I'm trying to take steps to finish it as soon as I can, but I have a lot of trouble with the pace of learning in many classes (it's either too slow or too fast). I decided that at 23 I better get this over with or I will be in school forever.

[ahimel]

Originally Posted by scottyp

I decided that at 23 I better get this over with or I will be in school forever.

Don't feel too bad - I know quite a few people on the 7-year graduation plan.

My observation is that almost all of them don't really want to be in college and don't care about getting a degree. (Except for the one who knows that her parents are going to make her pay her own bills when she graduates, so she's postponing graduation.)

My roommate did much better when he acknowledged that the reason he wasn't graduating was because he didn't give a darn. And since (a) Computer degrees aren't worth much anyway (b) he already had computer certifications, which are, and (c) he's starting his own company, which doesn't require a degree, there was no reason for him to torture himself at university.

Are you in a similar situation? If you're thinking about switching programs (which would throw a lot of your classwork out the window) anyway, it might be a good time to take a year or two off, and figure out what you want to do with your life. If that turns out to require a degree, go back and take classes, with renewed motivation. But if your dream job frankly couldn't care less whether you have a degree or not, why bother?

[Pat P.]

Hi,

I am "finishing" (it is a relative term ) a Ph.D in EE so I had my share of ups and downs along this career.

If I were on your situation I would try to remember what reasons brought you to engineering on the first place. Is it the money prospects, the technical stuff,etc? Maybe you can hold on to that to get you fired up again.

Second, if you have the chance, take a class or two on a different deparment, on something that you have interest but has nothing to do with engineering. If you play an instrument, practice a sport, like acting or writing, go for it. It would help you to put things back on perspective.

About organization, you can use the 50-20-30 rule that Steve's describe in his article "The 50-30-20 Rule" http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...50-30-20-rule/.
It can really help you get quickly organized.

Finally, I would recommend you take a look to the book "The Entrepreneurial Enginner" by David Goldberg. Although the title is a little misleading, it presents an overview of the practice of engineering, which is in general hard to learn from a classroom.

I hope it helps.

Pat

[scottyp]

well I'm planning on switching into something that is still in the fine arts department so I should be able to transfer a lot of credits...

As for the break, I'm planning on not taking too many classes next semester untill I know what I want to do.

[marky]

joeblogs,

ive been there too, literally. i have a degree in electrical enginerring. i figured out at the very end that engineering wasnt for me, but lookn back i have NO REGRETS finishing the degree. engineering is a discipline, it teaches you so many other things than just the subject area of your degree. im all done with school, and i can honestly say i never designed a circuit in my life (other than just for fun running electrical lines in my own house). i went on after engineering and got myself an MBA, that most closely follows my hearts desire and career.

employers will love the fact you have an engineering degree, but make no mistake about it, you will be "labeled" for a couple years as an engineer until you can gain work experience or go to get another (different) degree to show your aptitude in another area.

i would recommend that you take an aptitude test, like Strong Campbell, that should be offered by your guidance office, and for free. It will match your likes/dislikes with successful people in industry and give you a pretty good idea what you are good at, and then you can discuss a plan with counselor how to get there. and MBA was part of my plan, then followed by change of employer.

you may have noticed i said earlier that the MBA "most closely" followed my hearts desire, or something like that. you will never find a 100% match, those that do are truly fortunate. you are always adjusting your career and goals...think of life as a "twig on the shoulders of a mighty stream" (this quote was taken from Planes, Trains, and Automobiles movie). but its true...set the general direction for your career/life, and dont sweat the little stuff. the stream will take you where you want to go. sometimes you will be going in the opposite direction, sometimes even seem like you are spining in circles going nowhere, but trust yourself and all will turn out as intended.

feel free to msg me if you want to talk more about specifics of what i thought about egineering when i was in school, and how it all turned out. be glad to share more.

m.

[Liara Covert]

These postings are great. Its useful to recognize attennding school is part of a learning process but also that other worlds exist outside university and college. I think its good JoeBlogs decided to complete his degree since he sounded so close to finishing. You can choose to get something out of effort you put in and remind yourself you can always apply knowledge unexpectedly.

A friend of mine originally did an Engineering degree, before going into Urban planning and later, he did an MBA. This guy somehow combined it all in a fulfilling finance career he hadn't initially planned. He taught me that its useful to think "out-of-the-box," and to talk-out your feelings with people who may suggest an option in passing that could change your life.

Another guy I met back in university was completing medicine. Near the end of his grad program, he realized that route wasn't for him, but he decided to finish the degree because he had invested the money and didn't believe he was a quitter. He preferred to pursue business to make money freely where his time would be less restricted. It took him a while to listen to his heart.

Another friend of mine is a brilliant biochemist. He had straight 99s in university and was offered a HUGE scholarship-grant to pursue a research career. After two months in grad school, he quit. He couldn't stand working in the lab. Instead, he went off to teach English in South Korea. A few years later, he pursued medical school and found a niche working with people. He only figured out what he really wanted by having courage to admit what he didn't.

One girlfriend of mine has had so many jobs, people around her think she's indecisive, restless or incompetent. But, she has simply been taking time to figure herself out. She has also been hit hard by down-sizing and events in workplaces she can't control. No matter what, she keeps her spirits up and tells me she even learned useful things while working briefly in an archaic pickle factory!

I recently stumbled on a book which may be of interest to you as you explore options for your future: Delaying the Real World: A Twentysomething's Guide to Seeking Adventure by Colleen Kinder

No matter what you choose to do, remind youself that all learning is valuable for learning-sake. Yet, the better you get-to-know yourself, the more fulfilling your learning choices can be. Discovering you don't like something tells you something about yourself. Learn to listen and decipher your own feelings.

Best wishes on your journey of self-discovery!

"You can't cross the sea merely by standing and staring at the water."
-Rabindranath Tagore

[marky]

good comments liara...that made me think of another book i once read. it was called "work with passion". it helped you figure out what you REALLY wanted to do with your life.

i remember one exercise from the book told you to think back to when you were a little child and recall what things you enjoyed doing. if you couldnt remember, ask parents, relatives, etc, if they remember. that would likely be a good indication of what your true talent/desires are.

when i was little i grew-up on a farm. i would go out and teach the cows and chickens their ABCs and how to count. to this day, my ability to work with others (especailly difficult people) and communicate/teach challenging concepts is one of my greatest strengths. i have a picture of the time we were all dressed up to go to church and i wanted to go out and teach the chickens but my mother wouldnt let me, she quickly ran to feed them before church leaving me behind. i was standing on a chair pounding on the window until not realizing my own strenth i broke the window, and ended up getting a small scar on my hand which i can still see. i was only 2 1/2 years old, but that was alot of passion!

[Causalien]

Joe,

No one I talked to or know, graduated engineering saying they loved it. The final two years are designed to let you know what it is like in the industry. This is what I said to a new grad once: "Having a degree shows that you are disciplined enough to go on and understand how to learn by yourself (excluding the copiers of course). The things you learn in school was only the cover of the book and employers don't expect you to go into a job knowing everything.

The degree is more of a way to show them that you managed to make the right decision to spread the right workload under extreme pressure.

Then of course you have the secret government research institutes that demands 99% on every subject in school.

[Robert Avila]

Originally Posted by JoeBlogs

Hi everyone,