Fact: College is a scam. Beware!

[ken nubo]

I admire the people behind the scene who run colleges and universities. They're smart at scamming people -- and people willingly hand over their money.

No folks, people don't get smarter as "civilization advance". People are still stupid as 500 years ago, although this type of stupid is a bit more insidious.

Every time a college or high school kid reads my post, they're like "Yeah ... you're right. We don't need doctors, lawyers or teacher". Whoever wants to have a "high status" job, whatever, cool.

But if you're going to college for a job, you'll end up being a cubicle rat. No doubt, my friend. (if you're lucky enough to find a job)

The truth is, going to college is basically bend over and letting people -- the employers -- **** around with you. Yes, companies use college degrees as a filtering system during their hiring process.

Suddenly every dumb kid has a college degree, now a B.A isn't good enough, everyone needs a Master degree in whatever-field.

Every look at your high school teachers during class? I met a couple of nice ones that are happy with their jobs, but the rest are miserable nits.

I see why high school kids go to college. They're scared shitless, don't know what to do, afraid of not getting a decent career, go to college because everyone else is doing it ...

The truth is, outside from jobs that require you to be certified, you can learn ANYTHING on your own, so you don't have to pay some dumb shumuck with room temperature IQ money to teach you HTML or Visual Basic.

(And yes, I know you can't learn heart surgery on your own, smart ass. Or maybe you can .. hmmm)

So what's up with this **** with the institutions having a strangle hold on learning.

I guarantee you that you'll learn 100x times faster if you learn through experience, not through theories and class room work. It's like a guy who reads a 300 page book on "Seduction 101" but never go out to the bar.

And college kids wonder why they can't get a job because they lack the proper experience.

Fact: experience beats the **** out of fancy degrees any day. Would you hire a copywriter with experience under his belt (say, he wrote a sales copy that pulled in 1 million dollars in sell) or some fresh out of college kid with a fancy degree?

** Thinking critically

Think long and hard if college is going to be necessary for your career advancement. If it isn't, don't go! If you wanna get laid, live in campus and pretend your a student.

You can live the student life style. The only difference is that you're not getting scammed like the other students into paying for tuition fee!

I'm taking this time to write this out because I find it funny that students are making clueless decisions. Some don't even know what they're going to major in during the first year.

Fact is, take a year off, work, travel around the world (it's cheap, do coach surfing) and think. Reflect and improve your character.

University is truly a piece of **** environment where kids get suckered into paying for teaching lessons that they can learn for FREE in the library or Internet.

But still, I like university. That's where all the dumb college girls hang out.

The fact is, college is a pathetic excuse, a 4 year delay so they don't "face the real world" (whatever that means).

And this is not to brag, but the other day, 5 people with college degrees asked me, a high school drop out, for a freelance job.

Yes! Well trained, obedient college degree folks looking to work for a high school drop out who can't write a paragraph without grammar mistakes.

Hmmm.

The fact is, I'm not angry or concerned that people are wasting their money away on university, and falling into debt. It just amuses me.

Oh yeah, and the other day I met a Google employee (he was a programmer) who is like 28 years old and still has student debt. Another young English teacher (30 years old) who I have no respect for, is still owning money from the student loan.

Soooo, word of advice for all high school students out there:

Think long and hard before going to university, take a year off and do whatever. Success is up to you, not a piece of paper that you paid $50,000 for.

Don't be like those "career students" who spent 12 years going through elementary school, then 4 years of college. Then they don't know what to do. So they get another degree, then another, so they become 30 years old and still taking more college classes.

And while we're at it, here are some real life funny stories of people who go to college:

From: Detour | Posted 1/8/2008 1:47:46 PM | message detail
“We have a 24 year old looker in our office at the bottom feeder and kept saying every day “I went to four years of university for this?” before some superior scolded her for it. She doesn’t say it anymore. Education doesn’t necessarily mean **** all depending on where you are, what job you want, and who is ahead of you.”

And you think that’s funny? Haha, here’s another one:

Drez54 | Posted 1/10/2008 4:27:25 PM | message detail
“My dad spent six years in university between McGill and Concordia, getting his Bachelor’s in management and later graduated with honors in economics. He worked ~25 years as a chef in a strip club after about five in the underwear-making business, lawl.”

For those of you who are cool enough to wake up, there is an alternative path: start up a business or become self-employ.

I know a 19 years old guitarist who teach kids out of his house for 30 bucks an hour. (Whoooo)

-- Ken Nubo

[Angela]

Originally Posted by ken nubo

The truth is, going to college is basically bend over and letting people -- the employers -- **** around with you.

Great tip for making some extra cash!

[ken nubo]

Haha, love your sense of humor Angela.

[Angela]

I love yours too, Ken. I don't have a college degree, and sometimes I think about how different my life would probably be if I had gone that route, the way I was 'supposed to', in line with my family and peers. Though I think if you have the chance to go to university and it seems like a good idea to you, by all means go.

[NotesMaeve]

College ruled, for me. When it comes to things like medicine, engineering, etc., the hands on stuff at unis is just fabulous. And college is just fun.

[yorik]

Fact: Whenever somebody labels something a "Fact", it is actually not a fact at all.

People who insist on presenting a subject labelled with the word "Fact", or just saying "it's a fact..." are trying to hide the fact (pun intended) that they are, at best, presenting poorly formed opinions.

The same goes for labeling something as "truth". When somebody has to throw the word "truth" at you, that's a giant red flag that it's not truth at all.

While I'm at it, the phrase "everybody knows that..." is also a giant red flag that, in fact, nobody has ever bothered to prove the subsequent assertion true.

The more somebody insists a proposition is true, the less likely it is.

[Tasaio]

I more or less agree. If I had listened to the endless voices of "don't drop out, you'll regret it!" then I would have had three different degrees by now...with huge loans to repay...

Thankfully, I saw the light soon enough to know that the time + money investment just wasn't worth it.

At the moment, I've already made some money (!!!)--not a lot, but hey, it's a start!

And I did it without a degree.

One thought:

Many would argue (and have argued) that the main benefit is social; you're surrounded by people of like mind and interest.

This is true, to a point--especially in romantic subjects like Latin, Greek, Old Engish, Classics...

But then you have to ask yourself, do you really need other people to enjoy your subject? How valueable is it, really, to hear what undergrads think about classic literature? Are you going to converse with your friends in Latin?

If you're passionate about a subject...then you shouldn't need other people on a daily basis. And there are always clubs, convention, and the Internet.

Anyway, I found most students--even in 2nd and 3rd year--seemed bored and apathetic. They just didn't seem to enjoy the subjects they were supposed to be majoring in.

[Tasaio]

Originally Posted by NotesMaeve

College ruled, for me. When it comes to things like medicine, engineering, etc., the hands on stuff at unis is just fabulous. And college is just fun.

I'm glad to hear that. Honestly, it thrills me to hear there are people like you, who feel that they get value for their money. Sadly, people like you are becoming rare.

The money just doesn't justify the fun, in most cases. $50 000 for fun? Count me out.

BTW, what did you major in? I was in Math (Analysis) and CS Foundations.

[NotesMaeve]

Architectural Eng. Love it.

I'm lucky, re. college debt. Been out three years and now owe less than 10k. What a damn relief that is.

[shiggityjoe]

I love college. I plan on going into Grad school also.

I not only love my classes and what i'm learning, but also the sociology and the unique way that college functions.

Maybe you think college is a scam. But I think not going to college is a big mistake. I know I would be a lot worse off if I never went to college.

College is where I had my epiphany and changed my life. If I sat around at home all day I'd be a working stiff, doomed to make 10 bucks an hour for eternity

[Andrew Brunelle]

I've dropped out of college three times. I'll be honest about that. I feel like they're trying to shove me into a career for the rest of my life and all these "required classes" that you pay money for but will never use is ridiculous. For me, college is not the right thing for my career. For others, I am sure it works for them. It is all about who you are. I did a joke about how college is a scam. Four years of your life, thousands of dollars and what do you get? A piece of paper and a funny hat.

[A2K89]

I'm kinda jacking around aimlessly in a good community college. (only have to pay for books)
I did not, and still do not know what career path I want to embark upon... So I wasn't about to blow money on a 4 year university while being so uncertain.

A lot of people seem to be downplaying college these days, which does not surprise me all things considering.

What other options does one have though? Start out as an intern and slowly work your way up? Find a way to save up money then move to a more sane and prosperous country?

start up a business or become self-employ.

Considering that you wrote an entire essay on why college is a waste of time, that sure is some vague advice.

[astra]

I totally agree that college is a waste of time. I got my current position on the back of being enrolled in a course. I've been there so many years on and off, and don't really feel i'm better for it (except I'll soon get a piece of paper that will make getting a better job easier). As an example, I had to defer one of my exams from first semester last year, and at that point I was sitting at a C grade. With no studying except for a quick glance over the slideshows shortly before the exam, I managed to haul up to an A grade. How? All the stuff i'd learnt as part of my admin/office based job was in my HR exam! I also found the same with some MS Office suite subjects I studied - I needed to use the advanced features in my job, so by the time my exams came around, I bitzed them. Spend $14,000 (AUD) on a diploma, or get paid $40,000/yr + doing HR Admin for a government department? Know what I'd choose. Either way, I've now got the skills for a career in HR.

[ThoughtAddict]

There are a few different issues here that I think should be parsed through. I'm a big fan of not throwing the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak...

First, college isn't for everyone. If you are just going because you don't know what you want to do, then you're probably not helping yourself. Figure out what you want, then get it. That may include college... it may not. But huge student debt will make it much harder to take the time to figure out what you want.

Second, real experience in a field is often more useful than theoretical knowledge of the field. A good college helps you get both, if you choose to seize the opportunities. However, other things being equal, the theoretical knowledge is a great asset. I've spoken with a number of people who didn't realize the import of the theory until after they had some experience. Once they aligned the theory and practice, their theoretical knowledge greatly improved their skills. This is especially the case in hard sciences.

Third, some fields and some positions in fields simply require formal education. Meet many high school drop out doctors? Lawyers? Research nanotechnologists? The theory in these areas is extremely, extremely important. It is all but impossible to excel at these fields without a rigorous education. Often the education isn't something you can merely get from a book. Intelligent conversations on the relation between res ipsa loquitur and sine qua non or the delivery methods across the blood-brain barrier can be much more important than the information contained in a book. Learning how to think and analyze types of problems through practice is a long, hard lesson.

Colleges aren't a scam. No, they should not be the default a person chooses to put off life. But such a broad and... narrow... label is either disingenuous or only serves to inflame or agitate.

[The David]

Politics aside, I have lost a lot of faith in the college system. Right now, I am enjoying school less than I did when I was a high school senior. Why? Because I don't give a damn. I wanted to graduate high school so I would be more independent and disciplined. When it came to entering college, I can't say my motives were quite so noble. It's really a way to escape real life, not experience it. I doubt that the job my degree gets me will be any different.

I very well might go back, but it will be a cheap school, and I will commute. College should never have become the default choice for high school graduates.

[LifeFirst]

If no one ever went to college there wouldn't be any doctors, lawyers, engineers, no new technology being invented.

If you don't care about college and have motivational problems, think all that stuff you learn is stupid, that's your problem, not theirs'. They don't care about you, you have to care about yourself.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by NotesMaeve

College ruled, for me.

Props to NotesMaeve for remembering the magic words. (At least one other person said something similar, too).

Different people will have different experiences and get different levels of value out of college 'cos they're, well, different.

P.S. I second Yorik's post.

[drummbellina]

I agree that depending on what you want to do in life, college isn't mandatory. There are millions of things you can learn online or from books if you want to work for yourself and it's all freely available.

I think Ken made it clear in his post that the exeptions were obvious (doctors etc)

[Erki]

Originally Posted by LifeFirst

If no one ever went to college there wouldn't be any doctors, lawyers, engineers, no new technology being invented.

There would be plenty of them, they just wouldn't be qualified by the conventional standards. And it wouldn't make them necessarily less (or more) competent.

[Tasaio]

Originally Posted by drummbellina

I agree that depending on what you want to do in life, college isn't mandatory. There are millions of things you can learn online or from books if you want to work for yourself and it's all freely available.

I think Ken made it clear in his post that the exeptions were obvious (doctors etc)

Very well said. I agree completely, especially with the last sentence.

If no one ever went to college there wouldn't be any doctors, lawyers, engineers, no new technology being invented.

If you don't care about college and have motivational problems, think all that stuff you learn is stupid, that's your problem, not theirs'. They don't care about you, you have to care about yourself.

This ties with wolfgang's "You're just jealous" argument in the "People who work 9-5 suck" thread.

Your last sentence is interesting, though:

They don't care about you, you have to care about yourself.

This statement carries some bitterness. Are you speaking from personal experience?

Politics aside, I have lost a lot of faith in the college system. Right now, I am enjoying school less than I did when I was a high school senior. Why? Because I don't give a damn. I wanted to graduate high school so I would be more independent and disciplined. When it came to entering college, I can't say my motives were quite so noble. It's really a way to escape real life, not experience it. I doubt that the job my degree gets me will be any different.

I'm sorry to hear that. Unlike me, who hated college from the start, you seemed to absolutely love it. Did this change come on recently?

I very well might go back, but it will be a cheap school, and I will commute. College should never have become the default choice for high school graduates.

I agree that college, in its current form, should not have become the default choice.

Probably the worst thing is the cost. So many students accrue these huge debts (I was almost one of them), then realize that it wasn't all worth it.

As one of my professors said:

"With all due humility, I don't feel that we're doing a $10 000 teaching job...and that cost increase can't be attributed to inflation."

[Doku]

The reason that colleges exist, in my opinion, is to get the employee to pay for their own education... So that when they get hired on at a company, the employer doesn't have to spend six months teaching them what they need to know.

That being said, while you may think it's a scam, there are many who see it as a necessary evil. Everything in this world is a choice. Ken, you chose to live out of a dufflebag and backpack. I chose to earn a 7 figure income for a few years, and then sit back and relax and be a bum/lazy bastard.

Sure, it may take me a few years to get to the lazy life that Ken leads, but my hobbies, wants, and desires that I will pursue while leading that lazy life require large sums of money. That is why I took the college route.

--Doku

[Zombie]

There's a saying that goes "It takes a drop-out to launch a business venture...and an MBA to run it into the ground."

To paraphrase Borat - college is "a sexy party time" that is fully worth the price of admission. Just don't put too much stock in that degree because once you graduate that's when the real education starts.

The most important thing you can learn is how to learn; how to do self-guided R&D to come up with your own solutions. Some people need the college years to get to that point, others are ready even before they finish high school.

[thecubemonkey]

Like anything else in life, college is what you make it. I enjoyed college and saw it as a way to 'get a job' but to also learn more about the world. We live in an incredibly vast world and I wanted to know how it worked politically, scientifically, philosphically, and economically. I didn't like all my classes nor all my professors. I took the good with the bad, but in the end, it was one of the best experiences of my life.

If it weren't for college, I could not have the life I have now (and I'm not talking about money). I had jobs I didn't like and at times I felt that I was at a dead end. But, college opened my mind and opened opportunity. I have a bachelors degree, an MBA and am going for a Ph.D. Obviously, I enjoy learned academically. I enjoy the structure of a classroom and the opportunity to banter with classmates.

But, not everyone should go to college nor wants to go. It isn't for everyone. I think by saying broadly "Fact: College is a scam. Beware!" is incredibly short-sighted. It is like me saying, "Amway is a scam" or "Multi-level marketing is a scam". For some it is a way of life and pays the bills. For some, it is a scam because they got burned by the experience. Whose to judge? Not me.

I'm actually surprised by the general negativity of this thread and vast generalizations being made.

Life is what you make it. If you believe college is a scam and actually attend, you'll see all the problems and none of the benefits. If you see college as an exciting life opportunity, you'll enjoy the ride and put up with the problems.

[ken nubo]

Oh poo. I can't edit my main post. Oh well, I'll post here.

Afterwords:

You see, people who want to be success will become successful sooner or later. Those who aren’t motivated and don’t wanna do anything but flip burgers will do so.

Call it social Darwin if you want.

Just don’t be fooled into thinking that college is a magic bullet that will help you have a safe, and secure career (although it could help)

Hey, what can I say. People can do whatever the **** they want in life. Just treat each other with respect and dignity, unless you encounter my grade 11 English teacher — I give you permission to punch him in the nose.

[Kaybee]

Ken,

I did the college thing and earned two degrees. I also have experience from a long career. While I wholeheartedly agree that we can learn anything we want on our own, I think a person must possess certain intangibles in his/her character/make-up.

I think discipline, desire, focus, and initiative are very important. Unfortunately, many people do not possess these traits. I think this is why there are more people working for others than earning money on their own.

Personally, I've been a slave to a job for a long time and it's taken my several years to 'break out' of the stupid thinking like - a job was my only option.

Anyway, great thought provoking post. Thanks for sharing.

Kim

personal growth and inspiration

[Doku]

Originally Posted by Zombie

There's a saying that goes "It takes a drop-out to launch a business venture...and an MBA to run it into the ground."

To paraphrase Borat - college is "a sexy party time" that is fully worth the price of admission. Just don't put too much stock in that degree because once you graduate that's when the real education starts.

The most important thing you can learn is how to learn; how to do self-guided R&D to come up with your own solutions. Some people need the college years to get to that point, others are ready even before they finish high school.

Yep. Very well stated. I found that it's much better to get a degree in whatever it is that you want to run the business based around (comp-sci in my case), and actually DO the job for a bit so that you really understand what it is that your workers will be doing... and then start your company.

And I agree. My previous (and final) boss was the owner of a small business, and an MBA. I don't expect his company to be around much longer because he is running it into the ground trying to maximize his short term profit.

[medaille]

Is college/university a scam? The answer is simply yes. Is it worth it? Maybe.

Today, college is the default choice for people because it is a method of controlling the population. First off, college most often costs boatloads of money, which will be paid back with interest, lots and lots of interest. Secondly, it is part of a work environment, which promotes a caste system. Those who have the right piece of paper get "nice" jobs. The only way to get a great job is to get more education than the others. It creates unnecessary competition between people, in which the winner is the person who goes into debt more or has rich parents. It makes it easier for people to "know their role." Poor people deserve to be poor because they didn't work (commit themselves to a lengthy period of indebtedness) hard enough.

I went to college and got a job in mechanical engineering. Was college worth it for me? In this set of circumstances? Probably. Is it close to the ideal way that I would have liked to do it, in a different world/circumstances? No. I was lucky with college. I got a job doing one of my passions, in a field that also pays well enough to minimize my indebtedness. I certainly wasn't ready to be able to start my own business (a future goal ~5 years, when I'm 30) and the experience I have gotten while working probably wouldn't have been easily available to me in any other way. I'm definitely smart, easily top 10%, but I don't think my college experience is unique for my field. I didn't have to work hardly at all at my classes. There isn't a class that I took that couldn't be shortened down into a week of daylong classes. I would have been much farther ahead if I would have went straight into my job out of high school. I would have gained 4 years more experience in my field, and I would have had more life experience as well. College doesn't teach you about life. You teach yourself about life, by experiencing life, not by trading money for a piece of paper to obtain money.

There are a few degrees/jobs in which it is a worthwhile transaction, but most peoples jobs just use the degree as a screening tool to limit the number of applicants to a manageable number.

To paraphrase/quote John Taylor Gatto a bit, in a few short years, these are going to be the jobs most people will be working in.
1. retail sales person
2. registered nurse
3. cashier
4. general office clerk
5. truck driver
6. managers
7. janitors, cleaners and domestic workers
8. nurse's aides
9. food counter and related workers
10. waiters/waitresses.

Those aren't jobs that need college degrees. It definitely shouldn't be the default choice.

[schola]

If you know you purpose for being there, it can be very beneficial.

College is only a tool. I know exactly why I'm here and what I want to achieve with my education, so it has infinite value to me.

On the flipside, I'm estimating that 90% of the kids here are just that - here, with no real focus or purpose.

[Meg]

I'm a mass communications major with concentrations in audio recording technology and video production/digital filmmaking. Those classes are not lecture classes; the education I get from those majors are hands-on experience, real world education. Could I learn it on my own? Probably. But learning it on my own means going out and buy my own cameras, my own microphones, my own mixers and switchers and editing programs and all that hooah with a bill the size of my tuition, whereas I can get the experience, the degree, and other related courses, "free" equipment, and actual instructor to answer questions for the same price.

Sure, college isn't for everyone, especially if you're skilled in a particular vocational trade. And if you're lucky enough to get to go to college on the government's bill with very little out of pocket expenses, you'll be dumb NOT to go.

[Addict]

The fact is, I'm not angry or concerned that people are wasting their money away on university, and falling into debt. It just amuses me.

Oh, really? Because it looks like you're trying very hard to convince yourself (and others) that dropping out of high school wasn't a mistake.

People can become successful by taking many routes. So why not leave it at that?