Self-discipline vs. happiness

[ArtlessMonster]

Whenever I start getting into a self-disciplined mindset, it feels incredibly foreign and it isn't genuine or "me" at all. Someone calling me lazy would be like someone from the aquatic turtle-fish-giraffe-ruler-of-the-universe religion calling me an infidel, my belief system on reality is different so I'm really not phased by it. I'm just afraid of losing part of myself if I begin to actually start working on myself in ways that are for the "outside world" and my survival and not things that I genuinely care about.

"There are consequences, you have to have some degree of self-discipline or you'll wind up on the streets". Alright, which way to the streets? I mean... in my mind it really is that dramatic and intense, but if it ever ACTUALLY came down to that I'd probably do something about it. It's not really success that I'm afraid of so much as the act of getting there, I absolutely refuse to "force" myself to get there until I understand that I will still be the same person inside afterwards. "Accepting personal responsibility" is foreign to me too, I just honestly and truthfully do not care. It's not depression or anything like that, I am a definite optimist in the most extreme sense of the word, I'm just WAY too cautious for my own good when it comes to my mind, and completely negligent when it comes to anything outside of that.

What I really want to know is, have you gotten any happiness DIRECTLY out of the act of self-control and self-discipline? I'm not talking about from the things that it's brought to you(physically). The whole thing is, maybe I'm just missing something, maybe there is some huge personal, emotional advantage to this that I'm just missing. I'm totally open to that idea, I just don't clearly see it yet and I'd like to have someone explain it from their personal experience. I'm more than willing to do the work, as soon as I understand that the work will be worth it. Think back to what you'd say about yourself 10, 20, or however many years ago. Have you been more true to yourself because of how you've learned to become successful, or was it really just something you "had" to do to maximize the potential of your outside circumstances?

[Rose of Cairo]

Hi ArtlessMonster,

I think I feel like you. The self-disciplined mindset feels incredibly foreign for me too. I know that many people enjoy being self-disciplined, they're proud of it - that's not my cup of tea though, that's just not my world, that's not a goal I would be proud of achieving. I get NO happiness out of the act of self-discipline or self-control.

The good thing is that self-discipline is not necessary to be successful. Read Marc Allen, The Type Z Guide to Success (A Lazy Person's Manifesto for Wealth and Fulfillment), you'll feel better

Just to show you what I mean, here's what he writes:

Originally Posted by Marc Allen

Given the choice between a day when I have to set the alarm clock and get up early and shower and shave and go to work and a day when I can laze in bed for as long as I want and then do whatever I feel like, I'll take that second option every time.
I've never been a "morning person". It takes me three or four hours to get going, and some days, to be really honest, I never get going at all. Some days I do very little. I've always been that way, since childhood.

Not very disciplined, the good Marc Allen! Nonetheless, he successfully writes books, makes music, runs a publishing company and is a multi-millionaire. See

I also absolutely refuse to force myself to anything if it doesn't flow. I don't think that we should "form" and "educate" ourselves to become more self-disciplined either, for we already are perfect as we are There is another way!

[ArtlessMonster]

Ahahaha, thanks Rose, I'll check that book out. Sounds good to me.

[Rose of Cairo]

Here's Steve interviewing Marc Allen. There are links to the Type-Z eBook, to the book review and other interesting links. http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...len-interview/

[Brutha]

What I really want to know is, have you gotten any happiness DIRECTLY out of the act of self-control and self-discipline?

The success of self-discipline makes my happy.
That doesn't mean that I am generally disciplined (rather the opposite) but when I succeed in discipling myself I feel a sense of accomplisment.

[mlc82]

(this is all my personal opinion, not claiming "universal fact" on any of it)

IMO "self discipline" can take many forms... On the one hand, there are ideas such as "I drink too much alcohol and it messes up this or that, so I really need to discipline myself and cut back in order to make improvements in something else". This makes perfect sense to me and does require self discipline. You also hear ideas such as "I'm never ever going to masturbate again!", which again would require extreme self discipline, but would also result in my feeling sorry for anyone who had to be around that particular person after several days to a week, and which I just couldn't ever see a point in unless it was a chronic issue similar to the alcohol one.

I hear all of the time from family members how "disciplined" I am since I enjoy weightlifting/bodybuilding (noncompetitve) and generally don't eat much of any junk food, especially not sugary stuff like cake, cookies, etc. I can happily watch others gorge on those foods and not feel a bit of desire to eat them- yet many of the same family members think I'm NOT disciplined enough to hold a "Real Job", meaning 9-5 wage slavery for someone else which would likely result in my jumping off of a tall building a few weeks into it.

I always make sure to eat properly every day, take in plenty of complex carbs and protein, and choke down bowl after bowl of oatmeal even when the sight of it makes me want to puke... Yet I'll also happily (and out of controllably) sometimes drink a big cup of coffee before bed. Funny how that works.

Sorry this has droned on for so long, this is one of those "big cup of coffee nights" and I just can't seem to stop.

[fourthdan]

Self discipline isn't the end, it's the means. And most times the means to an ending of happiness.

I was pretty overweight in school as a child. I only got into shape in my early twenties when I realised I had to really raise my level of discipline when it came to eating and exercising. The discipline part obviously isn't fun, but man - the feeling I get as a reward for going the distance was far better than anything else. It was one of the points I could experience the difference between happiness and pleasure.
The same went for getting promoted through various belts at taekwondo, or passing out of my engineering degree, studying endless more stuff to advance at my career... As Doctor Bob Kelso on Scrubs put it - Nothing worth having comes easy. And it's true - ask psychologists and they'll tell you that adversity that makes you rise to the occaison is what usually makes us better than who we were, and most often what we treasure the most.

I'm not saying it's an indespinsble way of getting anywhere, and kudos to Marc Allen and Tim Ferris (I learn a lot from these guys too) but that very Mr. Pavlina also blogged a lot more than I can say in this post here.

Bottom line? I think self-discipline shouldn't be too forced - there needs to be some amount of motivation in you that allows self-discipline to be an allowed to a reasonable threshold.

[craigharper]

It depends what your goals are!!
If you're not interested in stuff. Really!!! Buy a surfboard and hit the waves. Not too many surfers die of stress related illnesses.
If however, you want the choices that money provides, then you need to shift your focus.
Ask yourself one question - If you could have your ultimate life - what would it be?
If you have it now, chill out and enjoy! If you aren't entirely happy, what would make you happy. That's your starting point.

[Remez Sasson]

There is some misconception about what self-discipline is. Self-discipline is not a severe and limited behavior or a restrictive lifestyle. It is a useful inner power, which enables you to persevere and not give up, in spite of failure and setbacks. It also endows with self-control, and the ability to resist temptations or distractions that may stand in your way to attain your goals.

If wish to have at least some control over your life and your time, then self discipline is a necessity. Believe me, it does not make life dull and boring, on the contrary, you gain inner strength, which you will enjoy using in your everyday life.

Self discipline is necessary, if you wish to improve your ability to concentrate or meditate, or to persevere with your studies. It makes you stronger and able to continue what you started, and much more.

Developing even just some measure of self discipline can be very rewarding. Actually, when you develop this skill, and it is a skill, you also develop willpower. These two skills are interconnected. If you are interested in some simple exercises, here is an article on self discipline and will power.

[nick pagan]

Self-discipline becomes unnecessary once you understand that we have so much resistance to many tasks because we attempt to override survival instincts that evolved to protect us from risk and harm, or else we attempt to do things that we really have not thought through properly and hence find impossible to do in the moment that we try to do them. Consequently we turn away from such activities. Self-discipline and strong character attempts to overcome these problems but once you understand how your mind works, why you have so much resistance and how to prepare yourself for difficulties you can then work in harmony with yourself and the resistance disappears (along with the need for self-discipline).

You can read all about it here:
http://www.nickpagan.com/blog/wp-con...fectly-v10.pdf

Nick

[Swede]

Remez Sasson: Your article holds valuable truths. It is by starting to conquer our smaller battles that we will eventually conquer the greater.