Men vs Women : Goals

[laciemn1]

I read somewhere that men have more goal-orientated minds. Is that true?

It seems to makes sense, I mean, I don't think men are smarter than women but it always seem they(men) are the majority in making new discoveries and stuff like that.

[Sam988]

This is a bit controversal. Women are, generally, more people oriented. They would, generally, rather have no more than 8 hours a day of work so they can spend time with their families/children, while men are more prone to accepting to work 12+ hours a day because they want to achieve money/status/whatever.


So i would say that it depends on the kind of goal you are talking about. If the goal is people oriented, like making new friends, getting fit for husband/mates, and so on, women are more focused. When it comes to more (in lack of a better word) "materialistic" stuff, men are, indeed, more goal oriented.

[Peek]

Long long ago, when human beings lived in caves and were dressed in animals skins, men go out to hunt. They had to focus on that one particular animal that would serve as dinner. Meanwhile, back in the cave, the Wilma's of that time had their minds occupied with cleaning, taking care for the children, being aware of danger, pleasing returning men and more.

From this theory it is said that men can only do single tasking, while femals can do multi.
Also why woman can hear different sounds more distinctifly then man and why men are better in judging moving object on their speed.

It is something I read somewhere. (sorry don't recall where) And laciemn1's statement/question seems to fit in.


So I might agree.

Although time have changed since then...........

[beautyscientist]

I once had, by chance, two teams working for me on difficult projects. (I managed a lab at the time.) One team was male and one was female. The men solved their problem, and in the process burnt out the key piece of equipment and left the lab looking like the piles detritus left behind after a major flood. The women never quite got theirs done, but at no point did they do any damage.

[Sam988]

Originally Posted by beautyscientist

I once had, by chance, two teams working for me on difficult projects. (I managed a lab at the time.) One team was male and one was female. The men solved their problem, and in the process burnt out the key piece of equipment and left the lab looking like the piles detritus left behind after a major flood. The women never quite got theirs done, but at no point did they do any damage.

And your conclusion is....? You're not going to make the mistake of using this example to make any kind of generalization, are you?

[cdn2wheeler]

Originally Posted by Sam988

And you conclusion is....? You're not going to make the mistake of using this example to make any kind of generalization, are you?

I don't think any conclusions can be drawn from just one example, and unless I miss my guess beautyscientist wasn't drawing conclusions. It's just one bit of data based on some personal experience (read = anecdote).

Various researchers seem to conclude that the tendency in gender differences relates to not only the goal, but how the goal is attained. (Gross generalizations follow, be warned.) Men have a tendency to be more focused on the outcome, while women tend to be more focused on the process.

• Lawrence Erlbaum Associates, Inc. - Basic and Applied Social Psychology - 13(4):415 - Abstract
• An Investigation of Gender Differences in Leadership across Four Countries

That said, men do tend to like to blow stuff up.

[jwh335]

Men seem more ambitious than women, in general. This could contribute to a more goal-oriented type attitude.

[Rose of Cairo]

You're lucky, guys, I'll just ignore that thread!

[Angela]

oh, rats, Rose. I was SO looking forward to your response to all this!

[NotesMaeve]

Actually, I'm a good planner and goal setter.

Slamhot's a great multi-tasker. In fact, he multi-ed so much last night neither of us got any sleep. This does have its affects on my goals. See what happens when you don't obey rigid gender rules? You don't get any sleep.

Stop worrying about if "men are like this and women are like that." Go get yourself an open mind, then try out getting to know people.

[Lola]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

You're lucky, guys, I'll just ignore that thread!

Thread? What thread? Did somebody say something?

Originally Posted by NotesMaeve

In fact, he multi-ed so much last night neither of us got any sleep.

I am so going to steal this. "Hey baby, wanna come over and multi-task?" In fact, I think I'll set a goal. And then I'll use my super-friendly powers to achieve my goal.

[slinky]

I'm a woman, and I am quite materialistic, but I'm neither goal-oriented nor people-oriented. I'm too lazy to either work on achieving goals or learn to how to interact with people. Instead, I'd rather lounge around or look at myself in the mirror. Ok, correction: Maybe I do care about both goals and people, since I work on the goal of looking fit so that I, a person, can like what I see in the mirror.

Using me to generalize about other women would probably be a bad idea.

[uberinquisitive]

I can understand physical differences in men and women. But traits like goal-setting, focus, etc. - it depends on your environment.

Black women are significantly more educated than black men, and make more money - and many of them are single mothers. They are more focused and goal-oriented than their male counterparts. Black men are much more likely to join gangs (their need for social acceptance, to the point of self-destruction, seems much stronger than the females).

As for making new discoveries - what are we talking about? Historically, women were under-educated and deeply discouraged from doing anything other than raise a family. And until maybe the 1970's, women have very limited career choices - a "smart" girl could be a teacher or nurse. But she was expected to leave as soon as she became pregnant. Society EXPECTED this from her. Her parents EXPECTED this from her. Her peers EXPECTED this from her.

I am sure, in the next 30 years, when all the old white guys retire from the powerful government and corporate and scientific seats, things will start to change. It's already happening in the academic world (more women go to graduate school than men).

Also, define goal-oriented! Raising children is the hardest job on earth. A housewife is like CEO of her household. There are women who hold down full-time jobs, and raise kids as a single mother...and go to school! I am in awe of so many women, who are focused, driven, incredible managers of not only their lives...but the lives of the world's most precious resource - children. Western culture looks down on motherhood as an inferior achievement to war, science, making money. That mentality is the root of not realizing that women are some of the most accomplished people on earth.

Are men more goal-oriented? I believe this question, if answered intelligently, begets more questions, and that ultimately makes us re-examine what history, cultural and social and pre-set gender ideas has done to our perceptions.

[laciemn1]

Originally Posted by uberinquisitive

Also, define goal-oriented! Raising children is the hardest job on earth. A housewife is like CEO of her household. There are women who hold down full-time jobs, and raise kids as a single mother...and go to school! I am in awe of so many women, who are focused, driven, incredible managers of not only their lives...but the lives of the world's most precious resource - children. Western culture looks down on motherhood as an inferior achievement to war, science, making money. That mentality is the root of not realizing that women are some of the most accomplished people on earth.
.

Motherhood..blah. In my opinion, that's pretty much just giving up. You're dooming yourself to a life dedicated to your kids..or you're going to be a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ mother. Meh, maybe I'm shallow, but I'd rather be rich than have a bunch of little brats running around annoying me all the time.

[beautyscientist]

I don't think that threads like this are anything other than a bit of fun and give you a starting point to think about things.

It may be true that men in general are more goal focused, but that doesn't mean that every individual man is more focused than every individual woman. So you can't say make a hiring decision based on this assumption. If you are a man it might make you want to check whether it is true of yourself, and if it is to question whether it is something that you would chose.

[Bliss Sage]

Originally Posted by beautyscientist

All generalisations are false

It may be true that men in general are more goal focused

What a PERFECT contradiction! Exactly what a generalization is? A general statement. So generalizations are true...?

Why do people arch their backs and put their hairs on end like hissing cats the second someone makes a general statement? If there were no truth at all in such observations, no one would persist in making general statements about people.

[Ninja]

Originally Posted by uberinquisitive

Also, define goal-oriented! Raising children is the hardest job on earth. A housewife is like CEO of her household. There are women who hold down full-time jobs, and raise kids as a single mother...and go to school! I am in awe of so many women, who are focused, driven, incredible managers of not only their lives...but the lives of the world's most precious resource - children. Western culture looks down on motherhood as an inferior achievement to war, science, making money. That mentality is the root of not realizing that women are some of the most accomplished people on earth.

Exuse me, but I think being a brainsurgeon is a lot harder than being a parent. Also, I'd like to believe childless people like Mother Theresa and Jesus would laugh at what mothers these days call a 'hard job'. It's not easy (or there wouldn't be so many parents that fail), but the hardest job in the world? Hmm, I don't believe so.

And no offense, but even rats can have offspring. It's not unique. It's not special. And most of all: it's not needed. There are so many abandoned children rotting away in oprhanages (if they're lucky!) and yet, women will sometimes try the craziest things to get pregnant. Those women don't want children: they just want a mini-me! That's selfishness to the highest degree, especially on a planet that can barely support us as it is.

[NotesMaeve]

Originally Posted by Lola

I am so going to steal this. "Hey baby, wanna come over and multi-task?" In fact, I think I'll set a goal. And then I'll use my super-friendly powers to achieve my goal.

I'd say yes, baby.

Originally Posted by laciemn1

Motherhood..blah. In my opinion, that's pretty much just giving up. You're dooming yourself to a life dedicated to your kids..or you're going to be a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ mother. Meh, maybe I'm shallow, but I'd rather be rich than have a bunch of little brats running around annoying me all the time.

Oh noes, a life dedicated to giving a human being every chance and getting to give love? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Honey, you can have kids + a life outside them. Not being ♥♥♥♥♥♥. It's teaching the kids that you're a person. They have your heart, but they're not the only thing on earth.

[Ninja]

Originally Posted by NotesMaeve

I'd say yes, baby.



Oh noes, a life dedicated to giving a human being every chance and getting to give love? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Honey, you can have kids + a life outside them. Not being ♥♥♥♥♥♥. It's teaching the kids that you're a person. They have your heart, but they're not the only thing on earth.

Or even better: adopt kids! Why is everyone so set on a miniature clone? Someone else's genes aint good enough for ya?

[NotesMaeve]

Originally Posted by Ninja

Or even better: adopt kids! Why is everyone so set on a miniature clone? Someone else's genes aint good enough for ya?

How's that not having kids?

Actually, I would like a bio kid or two. I like my genes! Plus, smart people should breed more. Plus-plus, I just think a wee Slamhot would be cool and special.

[Ninja]

Originally Posted by NotesMaeve

How's that not having kids?

Actually, I would like a bio kid or two. I like my genes! Plus, smart people should breed more. Plus-plus, I just think a wee Slamhot would be cool and special.

When people say "having" kids, they usually mean passing on their own genes. I though you did too, sorry about that

I'm probably not going to be walking around with a huge belly. I'm way too chaotic and would probably end up as one of those moms that leave their kid in the car in the middle of the summer or something like that. Plus, I like my rest and want to be a fulltime writer (of childrensbooks, ironically ). I want to focus on that, not on scolding Junior for sticking his fingers in an electrical outlet, or eating the flashdrive I had stored the only existing copy of my manusscript on. I like kids, I just don't want to raise any.

[shnu]

Originally Posted by laciemn1

Motherhood..blah. In my opinion, that's pretty much just giving up. You're dooming yourself to a life dedicated to your kids..or you're going to be a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ mother. Meh, maybe I'm shallow, but I'd rather be rich than have a bunch of little brats running around annoying me all the time.

Quite so. Kids are for wimps. Real women eat kids for breakfast.

Or perhaps there's another way to look at this. I'd say, couples who have kids with their eyes open are couples who have decided to make sacrifices of a certain kind for something of an uncertain kind in the future. It's a strange kind of investment, but one that every one's life's achivements depend upon others having made in the past.

The tradeoff between career success and parenthood one of the hardest issues for people of a certain age, and it is no accident that it is the gnarliest problem in feminism. I rather think that if you dismiss it, you don't really know what's at stake in the problem...

[Ninja]

Originally Posted by shnu

Quite so. Kids are for wimps. Real women eat kids for breakfast.

Or perhaps there's another way to look at this. I'd say, couples who have kids with their eyes open are couples who have decided to make sacrifices of a certain kind for something of an uncertain kind in the future. It's a strange kind of investment, but one that every one's life's achivements depend upon others having made in the past.

The tradeoff between career success and parenthood one of the hardest issues for people of a certain age, and it is no accident that it is the gnarliest problem in feminism. I rather think that if you dismiss it, you don't really know what's at stake in the problem...

Why should a woman only get to choose between A) have children or B) have a carreer? Surely there's more to life than just those two options? And if there aren't any (for the sake of arguement), you can combine those two, even without getting pregnant yourself. How about becoming a teacher? The possibilities are endless!

[shnu]

Originally Posted by Ninja

Why should a woman only get to choose between A) have children or B) have a carreer? Surely there's more to life than just those two options? And if there aren't any (for the sake of arguement), you can combine those two, even without getting pregnant yourself. How about becoming a teacher? The possibilities are endless!

My wife has a high-responsibility public job, and I run my own business & so we have defied this particular dichotomy. But my wife was less focused on her job in the first few months after our eldest was born, and I cut back on my job with #2. Someone definitely has to make some sacrifices, if you are serious about your parental responsibilities.

[kat]

Originally Posted by Peek

Long long ago, when human beings lived in caves and were dressed in animals skins, men go out to hunt. They had to focus on that one particular animal that would serve as dinner. Meanwhile, back in the cave, the Wilma's of that time had their minds occupied with cleaning, taking care for the children, being aware of danger, pleasing returning men and more.

What are you basing your opinion of historical gender roles on? They may not have been as clear-cut as modern Western society thinks:

Discovery News : Discovery Channel

[Ninja]

Originally Posted by shnu

My wife has a high-responsibility public job, and I run my own business & so we have defied this particular dichotomy. But my wife was less focused on her job in the first few months after our eldest was born, and I cut back on my job with #2. Someone definitely has to make some sacrifices, if you are serious about your parental responsibilities.

That's why I won't have children I want to focus solely on my writing. Making such a sacrifice isn't an option for me, though it may very well be an option for someone else (like you and your wife).

But I think that's the problem in modern day society: most people don't realize that you don't have to have children. They don't ask themselves if they are capable of making certain sacrifices and if it will be worth it to them. They just go grow up > go to college > get job > get married, and then think of having a child as the next 'checkbox' on the list. Very few stop to ask:

- Are we healthy enough to procreate? Don't we have bad genes in our family? Can I/my wife sustain a pregnancy with these back problems/heart failure/other medical condition?

- Are we willing to put in the time to raise this child? Even if it's not healthy? What if it turns out that twins are on the way?

- Does junior fit in our financial planning?

And so on...

There are times that I believe that the childfree (people who can have children/adopt, but purposely decided not to) put a lot more thought in this decision than those that just want to have kids because 'it's the next logical step', or even worse: 'I might regret it if I don't'. Personally, I'd much rather regret not having children than regret having them.