Successful students: What makes you successful?

[crazlunatic]

What do you do that makes you the top of the class? What do you do that earns you those awards you receive every year?

Do you care to share your methods?

Thanks

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by crazlunatic

What do you do that makes you the top of the class? Do you care to share your methods?

I shared my tips on how I got top A's this Spring semester in this thread: www.stevepavlina.com/forums/personal-effectiveness/6874-got-straight-semester-thanks-steves-blog.html

[Jugga J]

Ignore the teachers. Use the text books. Practise the exam papers. Bingo

High school only.

Profs rule - most.

[cdn2wheeler]

Originally Posted by crazlunatic

What do you do that makes you the top of the class? What do you do that earns you those awards you receive every year?

Do you care to share your methods?

Thanks

I'd be interested in deconstructing why "top of the class" and winning awards matters first.

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by cdn2wheeler

I'd be interested in deconstructing why "top of the class" and winning awards matters first.

A lot of doors open to you when you're "top of the class". If you're interested in working for a company, some companies only hire top of the class students, or those with a GPA above a certain threshold. Certain Graduate schools only allow those above a certain GPA to work toward a Masters.

Also - aiming for "top of the class" was my best way to counter the fear of failing my classes.

If you're not interested in working for a company, then naturally, "top of class" doesn't matter for those reasons.

But there's another reason too - it's the principle of doing your best for the sake of doing your best. Like aiming to live your best life ever, you aim to do what you engage the best you can. Thus, you aim to do your best in school for the sake of doing the best.

And I found it's a helluva lot of fun aiming to be the top in the class.

[cdn2wheeler]

I guess it depends upon the field.

I sweated bullets and worked like a dog in my Masters program and was rewarded with a 4.0 GPA.

Wanna know how many employers/potential employers even asked what my GPA was?

None. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Bupkus.

That said, if you want to be the best you can be for your own sense of self, then by all means go for it. That's an entirely different issue.

[crazlunatic]

I want to get in the Schulich School of Business, which requires a finishing average of 91+. Right now I am getting mid 80s, and high 70s on my weak subjects.

[CoolStuff]

I'm interested in doing this too. I'm willing to put in the work, but I need to learn how to make that work the most effecient work possible.

Steve's article is pretty helpful. Really understanding ASAP helps a lot.

I've found sucking up to the teacher helps a lot. The teacher has a huge influence on your grade. In my math class I handed in a paper wayyy late, and I don't even think I was punished for it (though I got a bad grade anyway, I didn't really mind, everyone else did too and I get pretty good grades in math otherwise). I also stopped fully completing my homework in that class. I usually pay attention in class until I understand completely, then start doing the homework in class. That way I always have a little, I already practiced. So come test time, I just do the review in class, then do the test in 1 or 2 days.

Now that is the most effecient use of my work and time, and it is SOOO much easier and enjoyable to be able to have a good relationship with the teacher. Maybe it's because I don't like some of my other ones, but either way it helps a lot.

[Uplift]

I was dux of my primary school and top in high school until I had a bit of dilemma, but still got mostly A's in the final crunch without doing any study or work for the year.

At Uni level I regularly got high distinctions and am on the Dean's Honour Roll. I know I am excellent at quickly analysing and finding whatever I needed to create and back up my arguments. I view academic referencing as a comical skill of its own. A lot of my study was external, and usually I would do all my reading and assignments at the very last moment, and could easily locate and pinpoint only the information I needed, saving heaps of time. I had a really clear picture of the argument, its construction and direction I was taking. Or when required I could see quickly what the lecturer was after. I also have a vivid imagination.

I just honestly think I am really smart, and over the years it has been strongly reinforced. Plus I use tons of visualising etc, and my beliefs are that anything is possible, and that I create and attract absolutely amasing things easily, which is also constantly reinforced. I loved the challenge of only having a few days to do a month or two's work in, and could focus really easily on the task, not the worry.

[tinasu]

RE: What do you do that makes you the top of the class? What do you do that earns you those awards you receive every year?

+ Planning ahead of the time. Do not procrastinate as much as you can control.
+ Get a planner (paper one) and actually using it
+ List out all tasks to be done each day, prioritizing that task list.
+ Begin the day with a vision of the end. What would you like to see yourself achieve today?
+ Make smart friends/class-mates. You are who you are surrounded by.
+ Ask lots of questions. Visit the Prof/teacher/TA.

Hope that helps.
I really miss school now.

[Ilya]

I was not a "top of the class" student at the university. But I've modeled the ones who were. Among other things mentioned by tinasu, they all shared one thing in common. They've started studying from the day one. You know, usually you can easily slack the first days of the term. They didn't. This led them to never become as overwhelmed as those who slacked. So they had less reasons to procrastinate and develop bad working habits.

[seeker5]

[quote=Ilya;126236] They've started studying from the day one. You know, usually you can easily slack the first days of the term. [quote]

That's so true - when I aimed (and got) to get high "A" in all of my classes last spring semester, I started reading the textbook on that very first day of class.

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by cdn2wheeler

I guess it depends upon the field.

I sweated bullets and worked like a dog in my Masters program and was rewarded with a 4.0 GPA.

Wanna know how many employers/potential employers even asked what my GPA was?

None. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Bupkus.

What was your masters degree in? I found in the technical fields such as engineering and computer science some employers in my city specifically would not even interview anyone below a certain GPA -for some it was 3.0, others it was 3.5, etc.

[Addict]

"80 percent of success is just showing up" — Woody Allen

This is probably one of the most appropriate quotes regarding doing well academically in my opinion. If you just make an attempt on every assignment and show up to every class, you're almost there. Skipping classes is usually a sign that someone isn't going to do well in a class.

Beyond that, I'd say you should try to understand the material as you go, especially if it's a class that builds on itself like mathematics. Never fall behind in that kind of situation. If you actually learn the fundamentals, the class will be a lot easier. I took an introductory economics class during my first semester. I quickly learned the law of supply and demand and I noticed that almost every other topic in class was a variation on that law. I literally slept through most lectures, but the class was a breeze because I understand that one concept, a rather simple one honestly, that the entire course was built on.

I also like the 80/20 rule and it may help you in school. Now, the obvious thing to realize about it is that 20% effort can yield 80% of the results, but we're not talking about 80% of the results. You want to be at the top and that means 95-100% results. Some classes are easy enough that you only need to put in minimal effort. Usually after the first set of big grades (papers, tests, projects), I'd have a good idea of what classes were going to be tough and I couldn't get by with minimal effort. Those are the classes that you really have to focus on.

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by cdn2wheeler

I sweated bullets and worked like a dog in my Masters program and was rewarded with a 4.0 GPA.

Wanna know how many employers/potential employers even asked what my GPA was? None. .

Another thing Cdn2wheeler - in most masters program I know of, you can't stay in the masters program if you don't have a B average. So add that to the fact that also most schools (and all good schools) requires an undergraduate minimum GPA of say 3.0 or 3.2 to get into a Masters program. Thus the fact that someone gets a masters degree pretty much already signifies you have high grades.

Sounds like you regreted working this hard for your grades?

[alexyeo]

Just want to share some thoughts with you guys.

Right now I am studying in a local university in Singapore. I used to be very weak in my studies. Often get C and Ds for my grades.

I can't say I am a TOP student now. But after reading some self improvement books based on NLP, I began to change my way of thinking. I began to get As grades for the past 2 semesters.

To cut long story short, It's all in your mind and how you think is very important! That's how I managed to do it. Of course plus my own efforts too!

[Ilya]

Originally Posted by alexyeo

But after reading some self improvement books based on NLP, I began to change my way of thinking. I began to get As grades for the past 2 semesters.

Can you share how exactly you've changed your thinking to get to this result?
It might be useful to many people here.

[Unik]

I am a university rank holder. I was always a successful student and now got highly paid job as a result.


So my personal experience.

• I never planned my studies earlier nor I studied each and everyday.
• There were students in my class who planned their studies and used various methods to study.
• I was a good procrastinator. (Now also)

• I was motivated by my fear. (Fear of loss of my position)
• I knew the art of exam writing. This is the killer. What the examiner expects in the answer paper is the trick.

• I studied only during exam days. Other days I day-dream, read, watch movies, write, socialize, sleep, enjoy...

Now my personal views.


Some people are brilliant in something by birth.
Even though I was the best student in the class (academically), I was not able to get a hot girlfriend, I dont know how to sing, I cant play football, I dont know how to play guitar, I dont know how to keep my physique good looking.

There were students in my classes who were brilliant in these areas. I was always curious about their success in the respective fields.


Its your childhood experiences and your parents. Its about compensation. It is a broad subject.

Currently I am improving the areas in which I am weak. Thats why I am here.

[alexyeo]

Originally Posted by Ilya

Can you share how exactly you've changed your thinking to get to this result?
It might be useful to many people here.

Well, I realized that the main reason why I was not getting the results in the past were due to my self-limiting beliefs.

During high school and college, my results were not impressive either. Hence I always think that I was not good academically. This belief sank in and carry through to my university's days.

I always thought that I was not smart at all, and I would lose out to those extremely talented foreign students in school. This kind of thinking brought me nowhere, because it's self-limiting as what I read on the self-improvements books.

I realized it's due to my thinking that is bringing me "sucky" results. So I changed the way I think instead. I now think that I am as smart as anybody in school. If I put in efforts, I will do extremely well. Those foreign students may get all As but I am superior in other ways such as high EQ.

These kind of new thinkings gave me new confidence and I began to gradually get As in my exams.

[Ilya]

Originally Posted by alexyeo

Well, I realized that the main reason why I was not getting the results in the past were due to my self-limiting beliefs.

Thanks for sharing your experience. Many people are sceptic about the power of changing beliefs. I think they are expecting some earth-shattering illumination.
In fact, the most impressive belief changes I know about were very small. Something like allowing oneself to be smart
Great for you, Alexeyeo!

[LifeFirst]

Originally Posted by tinasu

RE: What do you do that makes you the top of the class? What do you do that earns you those awards you receive every year?

+ Planning ahead of the time. Do not procrastinate as much as you can control.
+ Get a planner (paper one) and actually using it
+ List out all tasks to be done each day, prioritizing that task list.
+ Begin the day with a vision of the end. What would you like to see yourself achieve today?
+ Make smart friends/class-mates. You are who you are surrounded by.
+ Ask lots of questions. Visit the Prof/teacher/TA.

Hope that helps.
I really miss school now.

I don't know...I do most of this stuff but I'm still borderline failing my classes.

*sign*

[wolverine]

Well, I may not be a top student, but I graduated dux of my high school and am going through uni on a academic scholarship with 75% minimum grade requirement.

I beat it into my brain. I am one of those people than can cram; I can study for 2-3 days solid, memorise the stuff, ace the exam and then forget it 15 minutes afterwards. Now, I'm not recommending that method, just saying that it works for me and so my comments are likely to be biased towards that method.

But I also understand concepts fairly easily. If I can picture how something works (visualising, I guess, is the current 'in' word) then I can usually remember it. More abstract stuff that I can't picture, I often struggle with. Formulas especially; I hate them. I like words and processes more than plugging in numbers to a formula that's so far removed from the physical process that spawned it that I can't work back to see what's actually happening (eg, pure maths).

Do stuff you're interested in. I make it so that even 8am lectures are something I look forward to -- the content only, though! Seeing how things fit together, and affect each other, and understand how things work -- that's what I like. Some people like using their minds to figure out more abstract stuff like philosophy; no 'real' answers there, just twisting words. Find what you love.

Figure out your learning style. I learn from written words, and diagrams and pictures, and asking lots and lots and lots of questions. Verbal back-and-forth learning is my best style, followed by verbal+visual, ie, gesturing or drawing out examples or diagrams. And I love teaching stuff to people, because it makes me verbalise it clearly and correctly. Some people learn in other ways that I don't know or understand well. One of my classmates didn't go to the lectures, he just read the textbooks and notes. I rarely read the textbooks, they put me to sleep because it takes me 2-3 hours for a single chapter.

Find your best learning times. I like mornings from about 9/10am onwards. If I start working and keep working I find that best for me; other people work better with lots of breaks. And I can get some of my best work done after 9pm, even if I haven't done much other work during the day.

And finally, something I'm currently working on; be prepared early. Find the textbooks or notes before the semester/year starts and at least glance over them. Get an idea of what's going to be covered. Get hold of everything you need so that it's not a rush before tests or assignments or exams -- things like printing out bunches of past exams, or sorting out textbook questions into topics, or organising your notes. My current plan is to prepare for next year (I'm in Australia, so next year starts in March) by getting all my textbooks and whatever else I can find and going over them during the summer break.

Hope any of that helps; I enjoyed typing it out, which is the major thing for me. Helped me put into words my own style!


Wolverine

[Sam988]

I think that the most important thing (at least works for me) is to pay attention to what you're learning. Not just read/see/listen it, but understand it, think about it, make connections in your brain so the information really enters your long-term memory, instead of just staying some seconds in your short-term memory (aka "working memory").

[Daniel Terhorst]

I did well as a student. I tutored other students and I was hired by the university to teach companion workshops for Discrete Mathematics and Data Structures classes. I graduated Magna cum Laude with a BS in Computer Science. Note that my comments are biased toward math and computer science courses.

My experience shows that the best way to be an A student is to be an A student from the get-go.

What I'm saying is you have to do things in the right order. First get comfortable with the fundamentals. Anyone can master the basics -- it's skimping on them that's the problem.



It comes down to compound interest.

If your goal is the minimum passing grade (as it is for many students) and you start to exceed that grade, what happens? A lot of people feel relieved and slack off just a little. You don't need to worry anymore, right? You're going to pass.

But next time it'll be a little bit harder, because a C, say, is only 70% of what you're expected to know.

And harder.

Eventually it's all you can do to get through the class.

I've seen this too many times. I've worked with many great people who believed they didn't have what it took when their biggest problem was that they didn't fully understand concepts from previous classes. Discrete Math students are nearly always shaky on basic algebra, for example. It's not their brain that's the problem.

Don't take short-cuts on your understanding. Go the extra mile all the time. Make a habit of it so the compound interest works in your favor.

Then classes get easier.

And easier.

Eventually the highest grade you can get is not an A, but the feeling that you did such a good job you couldn't do any better. Then it's time to sharpen the saw on something else. The A's come too, of course. =) But they're only worth anything in a rare class.



If the world made any sense it'd be harder to be a great student than a poor one, but it's the other way around. It's much harder and more stressful to be a struggling student. Excellence does take time, though.

"The best time to plant a tree is twenty years ago.
"The second best time is now."

Plant that tree now. It's worth it!






Some assorted points:

* A study group can motivate you when nothing else will. There's nothing like the expectations of other people to get your butt in motion. The more frequent the meetings the better. There will be times when a fresh viewpoint is exactly what you need.

* Teaching is the best way to learn. Absolutely -- no contest. If you're in a study group, be the one at the whiteboard leading. You will be forced to pay attention to all the misconceptions and questions your fellow students have. If you can explain something two or three different ways to someone who is struggling, and they finally get it, you probably understand it well. If you don't know, then say you don't know, and work as a group until you understand it or can make no further progress. You may need to come back when you understand more.

* Sam988 is right. Pay attention. Understand. Make connections.

* You aren't trying to find the "right answer." You aren't trying to memorize formulas. You are trying to understand why the process you use to find the right answer works. Don't be the guy in back frantically copying down what all the 'smart people' write on the board.

* Homework assignments are the minimum you should do. Keep at it until you are confident you have it down pat.

* Addict and Woody Allen are right: showing up is almost the whole battle. Turn in all your coursework. But here I would also define showing up as understanding each new thing that comes along.

* Studying is only useful if you're in a bad position. It may get you through the test, but it won't help you later because you'll probably forget it all. Playing is much more effective and will make new connections in your mind no textbook can, and much better ones. I've found studying a pretty useless skill. Learn things right the first time.

* If you take notes, don't write things down word-for-word. Use your own wording to solidify things in your mind. Then toss them in your binder and never look at them again. Don't take notes if it causes you to zone out on the meaning behind what the lecturer is saying.

* Reserve 15~30 minutes before any test to do nothing but relax. Don't think about anything class- or test-related. A walk before class might help.

* Learning is fun. I'm not kidding. If it's not fun you're not doing it right. I'm not saying it won't be a challenge sometimes, but if you are frustrated you probably don't have all the tools. If you are bored you are probably not involved enough (talk about tautological...). You might not be thinking about it the right way. I used to hate history, but I found out recently that I've been thinking about it all wrong. It has nothing to do with dry dates and stuff that happened vaguely before I was born, and everything to do with context and relationships between different things. Now I read history for fun.

* "Always be happy with your progress, but never be satisfied." If you aren't happy with your progress, you will become depressed. If you are satisfied, you have no reason to improve. If nothing else, be happy with your decision to improve.

* You don't have to ask questions in class to do well, but you do need to develop an inquiring mind. If something doesn't make sense, pounce on it!

* "What if?", "I wonder...", and "Why not?" are great friends.

* Take delight in proving yourself right when you're right and wrong when you're wrong. Sometimes it's worth doing something wrong just to check those assumptions...

* Procrastination probably won't kill you, but that doesn't mean it's good.

* Between you and me, teachers aren't always right. Ph.D's especially. Never point this out.

* Brilliant professors are rare and to be sought after and appreciated. Tough professors are gems in their own right. But an unfair professor is intolerable!



What I said above is what makes me a successful student:
Excel at the small stuff and you'll come to excel at the big stuff.

"'Good enough' is not good enough."



Also, sometimes those that talk the most know the least. I'm writing this in part for myself, examining what has worked for me in the past and seeing how much of it I can apply to my current situation.

-- Daniel

[Ilya]

Wonderful post, Daniel. I love how you've explained this problem of aiming just for a pass mark and how it sets you up for failure later on. Compound interest metaphor is also spot on.

[Daniel Terhorst]

Re-reading the next day, I have a couple words of warning.


* Developing this mindset can lead to obsessive-compulsiveness and perfectionism. Other people will think you're crazy for putting so much 'unnecessary' effort into things. They will think you're fussy. But often those two things are good tools, because you can accomplish what no one else has the patience for. Where there's muck, there's brass.

But sometimes they will be exactly what's blocking you. If you expect yourself to always whip out a perfect job the first time, you only set yourself up for massive frustration.

Let yourself do a poor job first, then refine, refine, refine. No one has to know what a steaming mess you started with. It's the end result that matters. I never wrote a single essay I didn't go over at least a dozen times as a matter of course.


* You will develop a great eye for detail as a matter of course. You will see muck (opportunities for improvement) everywhere. When you mention them, people will confuse it with criticism. But there's a difference between having a critical eye and a critic's eye. Don't let it be a negative thing. Finding a problem is a good thing, because it is an opportunity. You can't fix what you don't know.

You can be happy with something and still recognize that it has flaws. You have to. Nothing is perfect.


* If you try to take my words or anyone's words as a checklist to success, it's not going to work. That's like the guy who sits in back scribbling formulas to memorize. You need to understand how it works, first. Know it so well you can re-derive the core parts from your own experiences.

Different situations require different strategies. You don't have an invigorating face-to-face discussion the same way you write an invigorating essay. Nor do you learn how to do each in the same way.


It might all just come down to acting on a desire to be your best right here and right now, and not settling for less. Be willing to start with baby-steps.

I guess that's how you get good at anything.

-- Daniel

[Scipio]

I'm a top student; top of my department, but you don't want to do anything I do. I don't have any of the traditional study habits that allow people to succeed.

One thing that makes me different than most students is that I love my field of study. Although I don't do the homework, the required readings, or study for exams except the night before, I do read about the things that interest me in my field on a daily basis. I read about it at home, on the internet, and talk to people about it when I can. When it comes time for a class on the subject, I've already been aware of it and studied it for 3 years. Often, I'm about as knowledgeable as the professor on the subject. Who wouldn't be? If you spend your fun time reading about it several hours a day, you're bound to have some wisdom.

[CoolStuff]

Originally Posted by Scipio

I'm a top student; top of my department, but you don't want to do anything I do. I don't have any of the traditional study habits that allow people to succeed.

One thing that makes me different than most students is that I love my field of study. Although I don't do the homework, the required readings, or study for exams except the night before, I do read about the things that interest me in my field on a daily basis. I read about it at home, on the internet, and talk to people about it when I can. When it comes time for a class on the subject, I've already been aware of it and studied it for 3 years. Often, I'm about as knowledgeable as the professor on the subject. Who wouldn't be? If you spend your fun time reading about it several hours a day, you're bound to have some wisdom.

I can't see myself doing that in high school. I have other interests I would like to pursue other than reading about physics or history for a few hours a day.

Great tips posted by everyone else though. What I'm gonna do is let it all sink in, then write down my own plan.

[jakethegreat]

Originally Posted by Daniel Terhorst

* You don't have to ask questions in class to do well, but you do need to develop an inquiring mind. If something doesn't make sense, pounce on it!

* "What if?", "I wonder...", and "Why not?" are great friends.

* Take delight in proving yourself right when you're right and wrong when you're wrong. Sometimes it's worth doing something wrong just to check those assumptions...

* Procrastination probably won't kill you, but that doesn't mean it's good.

In addition to writing one of the best posts I've ever seen, Daniel has also made a point which I'd like to add on to. I find that often participating in class helps you learn by forcing you to concentrate. When one is engaged in the topic at hand, they learn easier. I find a strong correlation between those who are actively learning and good grades.

[Fullcrum]

If I enjoy what I do, and I enjoy all classes cause learning to me is like crack, I'll focus well and do well. Also, I have a self-concept that I'm an intelligent person who learns easily. It must have been something right my parents did, because from a young age my parents instilled that mindset into me, and I've been a straight-A student my entire life. Whenever teachers would ask why I did well on tests without studying, I'd always say "I love learning." Maybe that helps, too. It's hard to pinpoint exactly what I do since I've been doing it since pre-school, but I'd pin-point it down to self-belief and a deep curiosity for how everything works, and a love of learning about stuff.

I'd go far to say that this actually has not helped me in certain other endeavors, mainly personal development. All my life I've gotten away with procrastination because I have what society would deem "raw talent" when it comes to school, so I could crank out an essay last-minute and have it sound good. Having such talent had limited my need or desire to discipline myself or to "push" through sticking points. Ask any of the true geniuses in school and they'll probably tell you the same thing. I had to undertake other activities, including sports, socializing, martial arts, etc, in order to develop discipline, a sense of what "failure" feels like, and how to push past that. Go figure