It doesn't pay to be nice, does it?

[saaretjie]

I mean, I understand that there's a lot to be said for helping other people achieve their dreams and all, but I also think that when you want something you have to go for it.

Maybe not harming others, but definitely getting your point across and sometimes refusing to take no for an answer. Please understand that I don't mean being rude and arrogant, just strong and kinda stubborn.

It really doesn't help being a delicate violet in this world... At least that's what I think...

thoughts?

[joelyle]

If someone needs peace and presence: be a flower. If they need a wake-up call: be an alarm clock. Most importantly: be real.

[cdn2wheeler]

Originally Posted by saaretjie

It really doesn't help being a delicate violet in this world... At least that's what I think...

There's a world of difference between being a delicate violet and being a bull in a china shop.

(My goodness... is today Metaphor Day?)

Anyway, point is that as human beings we have a choice of behaviours and a range of intensities we can use to deal with whatever we need to deal with. By examining cause-effect relationships, we can learn that sometimes a "take no prisoners" approach is justified, other times it pays to be less forceful.

It's all situation-dependent.

[Angela]

I don't like that word, "nice", because it means different things to different people and has been used as a weapon for manipulation. "Be nice!" we're taught -- but that can mean all sorts of things, including, "shut up and stop fighting so mom can get over her hangover in peace!" and "You are a much better person when you're acquiescing to my wants and needs rather than standing up for yourself."

Still I think it's not difficult to consider your own well-being first, be a stand for your life, and be selfish (a good thing!) while at the same time being considerate of and compassionate for others.

One of the most generous things you can do is to take care of your own needs, and to trust that others will take care of theirs. Then everybody's free to add the icing to the cake -- freely giving and receiving without demand or feeling owed. Yum!

[saaretjie]

Exactly... Sometimes you have to think number 1. I mean, don't hurt someones feelings if you can avoid it, but don't be a door mat.

I've been a door mat 4 ages

[Ilya]

Angela has made a great point. Still, I find that being nice to people does pay.

By focusing on the needs of others we can give them something valuable. And most of the people are funny creatures. They just can't stand when someone gives them something valuable for free. They just have to start giving back. And usually they give back so much more then you could expected from them. I love it when life-hardened businessmen simply melt if you give them something valuable. Of course to do that you have to be firmly out of scarcity mentality and know how to have a win-win situation. Usually the gift that does the trick is not something obvious like money or falling for their terms in a negotiation.

The other idea, that has caught my eye is that being nice is the same as being the doormat for saaretjie. I don't think it's true. Not because of what Angela said. I can see how the word nice can mean "being a doormat". I just disagree that being a doormat is being nice to someone. In fact it is the people who treat you as a doormat are being nice to you, and you are being selfish and greedy. Surprised? Stay with me for a while.

I've did many communication seminars, including the ones on publich speaking. And there is a topic there called "uncomfortable clients". It is about how to deal with nasty people in the audience that just ruin your speech, presentation, seminar and so on. These people simply attack the speaker for some reason. The funny thing is that these nasty people tend to attack in a way that is most painful for a given presenter. Talk about the Law of attraction.

The way it works is that the speaker has a fear of a certain behavior in the audience. And as a defense, he tries to prevent such behavior on many different levels. It's posture, voice, certain way of presenting information and so on. Mostly subconscious activities. But (and here is a hit) for some reason, these defenses usually look as if the person is just begging for a certain response from the audience. Yes, that very response he is afraid of.
And the person who starts to pick on such presenter is usually the kindest guy in the group. He has the best intension in mind. And he is the most perceptive. He just tries to give the speaker something he asks for so desperately.

You see where I'm leading to? It works the same on a one on one level. The people who are bullied are usually carrying the look that screams "bully me, bully me hard". Well, this is no excuse for any sort of crime (Please let's just not go into "provoked rape" debate (see what I've just done? )). But this happens even in normal healthy relationships.

The way to overcome it is to either get rid of the fear or tune the appearance of the defenses in such a way that they start to work.

[saaretjie]

Originally Posted by Ilya

Angela has made a great point. Still, I find that being nice to people does pay.

By focusing on the needs of others we can give them something valuable. And most of the people are funny creatures. They just can't stand when someone gives them something valuable for free. They just have to start giving back. And usually they give back so much more then you could expected from them. I love it when life-hardened businessmen simply melt if you give them something valuable. Of course to do that you have to be firmly out of scarcity mentality and know how to have a win-win situation. Usually the gift that does the trick is not something obvious like money or falling for their terms in a negotiation.

The other idea, that has caught my eye is that being nice is the same as being the doormat for saaretjie. I don't think it's true. Not because of what Angela said. I can see how the word nice can mean "being a doormat". I just disagree that being a doormat is being nice to someone. In fact it is the people who treat you as a doormat are being nice to you, and you are being selfish and greedy. Surprised? Stay with me for a while.

I've did many communication seminars, including the ones on publich speaking. And there is a topic there called "uncomfortable clients". It is about how to deal with nasty people in the audience that just ruin your speech, presentation, seminar and so on. These people simply attack the speaker for some reason. The funny thing is that these nasty people tend to attack in a way that is most painful for a given presenter. Talk about the Law of attraction.

The way it works is that the speaker has a fear of a certain behavior in the audience. And as a defense, he tries to prevent such behavior on many different levels. It's posture, voice, certain way of presenting information and so on. Mostly subconscious activities. But (and here is a hit) for some reason, these defenses usually look as if the person is just begging for a certain response from the audience. Yes, that very response he is afraid of.
And the person who starts to pick on such presenter is usually the kindest guy in the group. He has the best intension in mind. And he is the most perceptive. He just tries to give the speaker something he asks for so desperately.

You see where I'm leading to? It works the same on a one on one level. The people who are bullied are usually carrying the look that screams "bully me, bully me hard". Well, this is no excuse for any sort of crime (Please let's just not go into "provoked rape" debate (see what I've just done? )). But this happens even in normal healthy relationships.

The way to overcome it is to either get rid of the fear or tune the appearance of the defenses in such a way that they start to work.

To be honest I've never thought about it that way.

But I guess we're all here to learn.

Although it's a lot easier said than done (Letting go of a fear), I'll definitely try it.

[180]

Being nice to be nice = you're a doormat
Being nice to get someting = you're an ♥♥♥♥♥♥
Being nice because it's the right thing to do = priceless

I'm sure I could have communicated that more effectively and eloquantley but I'd like to keep it short and sweet

[saaretjie]

Originally Posted by 180

Being nice to be nice = you're a doormat
Being nice to get someting = you're an ♥♥♥♥♥♥
Being nice because it's the right thing to do = priceless

I'm sure I could have communicated that more effectively and eloquantley but I'd like to keep it short and sweet

Never has a wiser word been said (And by never... I mean... a couple of posts before this)

[Jennihul]

Being nice as in kind, gracious and gentle is way different than putting yourself up to be taken advantage of.

WEAK people can get easily taken advantage of. But nice doesn't have to mean weak.

You should strive to be extremely nice. But not weak.

Jennifer

[NotesMaeve]

I started browsing around for different jobs recently. I have learned a few things:

Someone will like you for all your best assets. Just present the best "you." I went to an interview this afternoon. Put on the best face and just thought to myself, "Yes, I've been waiting for an hour... But if I just wait a little longer, this is going to pay off big." Had like a 3 minute interview. I thought to myself, "Well, this just means I'm one step closer to the job I want." So I was walking out and one of the dudes who owns the company taps me on my shoulder and says, "Hey, come back Thursday for a follow-up." My point is, that sometimes when things seem like they aren't falling in place perfectly, they are, in their own perfect way.

[Mags]

Originally Posted by Jennihul

Being nice as in kind, gracious and gentle is way different than putting yourself up to be taken advantage of.

WEAK people can get easily taken advantage of. But nice doesn't have to mean weak.

You should strive to be extremely nice. But not weak.

Jennifer

One of the nicest ( ) things anyone has ever said to me...: I was sitting one day, talking to two friends, one of whom I'd known for about 5 years, the other only about 6 months maybe. I forget exactly how we got to this point, but the "new" friend said something along the lines of "Oh, but Mags is too nice and gentle, they'd walk all over her." To which my "old" friend replied "Oh no, you're underestimating her - Mags may be nice and gentle, but she's not a pushover. She has integrity and a quiet assertiveness that is every bit as strong, maybe more strong, than those people who are more in your face."

To be honest, it did take me a while to get to this point, and it was lovely to see that someone I respected as a friend and businesswoman had noticed it and saw it as a strength of mine. My "quiet assertiveness" has certainly stood me in good stead - the combo of "nice" with inner strength does pay, and not only in material rewards

[Alex2007]

The awards in life are in a direct proportion to the contributions to the life.

.

[Peleke4]

Originally Posted by saaretjie

I mean, I understand that there's a lot to be said for helping other people achieve their dreams and all, but I also think that when you want something you have to go for it.

Maybe not harming others, but definitely getting your point across and sometimes refusing to take no for an answer. Please understand that I don't mean being rude and arrogant, just strong and kinda stubborn.

It really doesn't help being a delicate violet in this world... At least that's what I think...

thoughts?

I consider myself a nice guy, but there was a time in my life when I was overly nice. I found that the vast majority of people will bring that same positive vibe to the table. But on the other hand, there will be a few rotten apples who will use that against you. It's important to stand up for yourself and be assertive, while at the same time not allowing the rotten apples to taint your kindness.

[Marvinq]

It does pay to be nice, only the payment isn't in dollars. But, you also know when you are being too nice. You know when that 'someone' is taking advantage. It's up to you to stop it, stand up and stick up for yourself.

My wife was super nice and was COMPLETELY being taken advantage of, it's funny if you're too nice to someone and they get used to it. They expect it, and even get mad when you refuse to help any further. Luckily, I started seeing what was happening and, long story short told them no. They actually threatened me.

I still believe it’s ok to be nice to people, just be careful who you are nice to.

[Nelson]

If you think that being nice doesn't pay you are dead wrong.

Just to let you know I am a completely selfish and mean-spirited person. I have almost no scruples and I focus completely on my own desires and I don't let other people get in my way. So you can trust me on the fact that I'm not just saying be nice because it supports some poppycock view of a utopian society.

No, I've learned over the years that if you want anything in this world you need to be nice.You need to be charming and you need to be charismatic.

Besides pure physical attraction and a few skills (public speaking, improvisational humor, etc.) charisma comes from knowing that another person likes and respects you. The only way to have someone think that you like and respect them is to act like it. Using manners, gifts, a friendly tone of voice, preferential treatment and compliments will get you farther in this world than any other method I know of.

It has been said, "Flattery will get you anywhere."

Getting other people to feel good about being around you, get them feeling good about your products and business - that's a key life lesson.

I'm not saying to give in to others people desires all the time. However, when it costs you nothing or next to nothing to help someone - DO IT. You never know how many doors a small favor or compliment can open. Being nice is about making other people want to help you. Because when you help other they feel a psychological need to return the favor.

[Stephen]

I have been in belly to belly sales now for almost 11 years and I have had to sit in some meetings which I could only describe as 'pride swallowing seiges', but have always smiled and in the most rude people, begged to differ and thanked them for their time and said goodbye.

Many a time I have wanted to slap the buffon breadwinner who would rather spend the family's money on beer and fags than sacrifice perhaps as little as 5 bucks a week to give the family and children some protection in the form of life assurance. The usual reasons aside, I normally give the submissive but worried other partner a ""thank you but I tried"" look and walk away knowing I have done my best for them.

In saying that though, those cases are few and far between, thank goodness!

[Sam988]

Originally Posted by Nelson

If you think that being nice doesn't pay you are dead wrong.

Just to let you know I am a completely selfish and mean-spirited person. I have almost no scruples and I focus completely on my own desires and I don't let other people get in my way. So you can trust me on the fact that I'm not just saying be nice because it supports some poppycock view of a utopian society.

No, I've learned over the years that if you want anything in this world you need to be nice.You need to be charming and you need to be charismatic.

Besides pure physical attraction and a few skills (public speaking, improvisational humor, etc.) charisma comes from knowing that another person likes and respects you. The only way to have someone think that you like and respect them is to act like it. Using manners, gifts, a friendly tone of voice, preferential treatment and compliments will get you farther in this world than any other method I know of.

It has been said, "Flattery will get you anywhere."

Getting other people to feel good about being around you, get them feeling good about your products and business - that's a key life lesson.

I'm not saying to give in to others people desires all the time. However, when it costs you nothing or next to nothing to help someone - DO IT. You never know how many doors a small favor or compliment can open. Being nice is about making other people want to help you. Because when you help other they feel a psychological need to return the favor.

Yes, i realize that the best way to live the live is to act nice, as you're suggesting, and being "selfish" in the inside (i don't like the word "selfish", maybe we could say "considering one's needs first").

[jaydeschizo]

Originally Posted by Nelson

If you think that being nice doesn't pay you are dead wrong.

Just to let you know I am a completely selfish and mean-spirited person. I have almost no scruples and I focus completely on my own desires and I don't let other people get in my way. So you can trust me on the fact that I'm not just saying be nice because it supports some poppycock view of a utopian society.

No, I've learned over the years that if you want anything in this world you need to be nice.You need to be charming and you need to be charismatic.

Besides pure physical attraction and a few skills (public speaking, improvisational humor, etc.) charisma comes from knowing that another person likes and respects you. The only way to have someone think that you like and respect them is to act like it. Using manners, gifts, a friendly tone of voice, preferential treatment and compliments will get you farther in this world than any other method I know of.

It has been said, "Flattery will get you anywhere."

Getting other people to feel good about being around you, get them feeling good about your products and business - that's a key life lesson.

I'm not saying to give in to others people desires all the time. However, when it costs you nothing or next to nothing to help someone - DO IT. You never know how many doors a small favor or compliment can open. Being nice is about making other people want to help you. Because when you help other they feel a psychological need to return the favor.

Hear, hear!

[Jennihul]

Originally Posted by Mags

One of the nicest ( ) things anyone has ever said to me...: I was sitting one day, talking to two friends, one of whom I'd known for about 5 years, the other only about 6 months maybe. I forget exactly how we got to this point, but the "new" friend said something along the lines of "Oh, but Mags is too nice and gentle, they'd walk all over her." To which my "old" friend replied "Oh no, you're underestimating her - Mags may be nice and gentle, but she's not a pushover. She has integrity and a quiet assertiveness that is every bit as strong, maybe more strong, than those people who are more in your face."

To be honest, it did take me a while to get to this point, and it was lovely to see that someone I respected as a friend and businesswoman had noticed it and saw it as a strength of mine. My "quiet assertiveness" has certainly stood me in good stead - the combo of "nice" with inner strength does pay, and not only in material rewards

Now, that's what I'm talkin about...

Jennifer

[Jennihul]

Originally Posted by Nelson

If you think that being nice doesn't pay you are dead wrong.

Just to let you know I am a completely selfish and mean-spirited person. I have almost no scruples and I focus completely on my own desires and I don't let other people get in my way. So you can trust me on the fact that I'm not just saying be nice because it supports some poppycock view of a utopian society.

No, I've learned over the years that if you want anything in this world you need to be nice.You need to be charming and you need to be charismatic.

Besides pure physical attraction and a few skills (public speaking, improvisational humor, etc.) charisma comes from knowing that another person likes and respects you. The only way to have someone think that you like and respect them is to act like it. Using manners, gifts, a friendly tone of voice, preferential treatment and compliments will get you farther in this world than any other method I know of.

It has been said, "Flattery will get you anywhere."

Getting other people to feel good about being around you, get them feeling good about your products and business - that's a key life lesson.

I'm not saying to give in to others people desires all the time. However, when it costs you nothing or next to nothing to help someone - DO IT. You never know how many doors a small favor or compliment can open. Being nice is about making other people want to help you. Because when you help other they feel a psychological need to return the favor.

You are saying that being nice is a form of currency. That, otherwise, it's not worth the effort.

Interesting take on life.

Jennifer

[dqdok]

Man has to keep his principles and purposes, but it's a real pleasure when we do good for someone. So if there is a possibility for compromise - don't miss it! Everything comes back. And some people are born philanthropic and don't have a right for choose.