Personal Development or Self Development?

[Marcus]

Has Personal Development become too much of an industry? Is a shift in paradigm needed?

Personally I feel there is a lot of room for a fresh approach to how we go about developing ourselves and our lives. Many of the things that we try and address with personal development are generally symptoms of deeper-seated issues. Surely self-understanding is the only reasonable path towards effective personal change?

For a closer look at this, see: Personal Development or Self Development?

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by Marcus

For a closer look at this, see: Personal Development or Self Development?

You know, I don't know if I'm the only one who feels that way, but if an author of a blog post their ideas on this forum, I'd much prefer it they post their entire post instead of just linking off-forum. Am I the only one who feels this way? It feels too "commercial", disrespectful, and cheap to me when authors simply post a snippet and then link to their own post instead of posting their entire post.

[Mark Lapierre]

Originally Posted by Marcus

Has Personal Development become too much of an industry? Is a shift in paradigm needed?

Personally I feel there is a lot of room for a fresh approach to how we go about developing ourselves and our lives. Many of the things that we try and address with personal development are generally symptoms of deeper-seated issues. Surely self-understanding is the only reasonable path towards effective personal change?

For a closer look at this, see: Personal Development or Self Development?

The link doesn't work atm. 404.

Good reason to do as seeker5 said. But it's just one click so I don't mind, as long as it's not an attempt to get traffic, which in the case of someone who has been contributing to the forum for a while, is clearly not the case.

To answer your question, self-understanding is part of personal development. I don't see how you can achieve any significant level of personal development without improving your self-understanding, even if you're not specifically trying to do that. But in agreement with you I think that self-understanding is the place to start. How can you improve yourself if you don't know what you're improving?

[Tayrak]

Aren't personal development and self development the same thing? You're trying to change the same person, yourself. It does make a difference in the google ratings though, self development brings up lots of stuff, personal development brings up Steve.

[Marcus]

Sorry to take a while to get back here. The 404 error was due to problems with the site; I have since moved hosts.

I understand what you are saying seeker5, and agree with you to an extent. Reason I didn't post the entire article here is because it is over 2000 words and contains a lot of links - meaning I would needed to have reformatted everything to bring it over.

Mark, yep that is how I see it. Without self understanding (from self-development) we have no real chance of getting anywhere with personal development.

Personally I think Steve does a great job with his work - and his stuff isn't really the norm. in personal development circles (i.e. Steve's work is much better )

[Marcus]

On another point - how do you guys feel Spiritual Development fits into the equation - if at all?

[ixmatus]

I believe spiritual development to be essential, if not crucial, to the evolution of any human being. Whether that person calls it 'spiritual' development or not doesn't matter - there is always a connection to that word.

If you are to look at the word 'animus' from Latin (which is also related to C.G. Jung's work) with this definition: animus -i m. [the spiritual or rational principle of life in man], [the seat of thought, intellect, mind, memory, consciousness]. you can see that the word 'spiritual' has a clear connection with not just meditation, incense, and spirits; but also with, the very core of a being that wishes to evolve itself (personal development overlaps and shares attributes with that concept).

In fact, I believe a broader definition suffices: Joy. If one is feeling 'joy' they are no doubt 'being' spiritual, experiencing spirituality, and actively practicing it in that moment (again, whether chanting or playing with a baby). Sitting on a mountaintop meditating brings me joy, reading a book that is interesting, innovative, and expansive (therefore developing my consciousness) is spiritual; or maybe just the finer act of sex, snacking on candy, or laughing with someone.


Honestly, if you are take a holistic view of your evolution in life, you may notice many seemingly unrelated subjects and concepts assisting you in your growth.

Self-development is, in my opinion, no different than Personal-development; however, Personal-development has a ring to it that sounds more like 'to the benefit of myself AND others', rather than, 'to the benefit of mySelf'. Note that I do not necessarily find any difference between the two concepts - serving thyself in a manner that brings one joy, will indeed benefit not just the self but others as well; pretty much bridging those two worlds without conflict.

[robertanthony]

Originally Posted by seeker5

You know, I don't know if I'm the only one who feels that way, but if an author of a blog post their ideas on this forum, I'd much prefer it they post their entire post instead of just linking off-forum. Am I the only one who feels this way? It feels too "commercial", disrespectful, and cheap to me when authors simply post a snippet and then link to their own post instead of posting their entire post.

Many of the postings seem to be there to attract interest in other blogs. This place seems to be saturated by L.O.A. adverts and associated problems. I followed one link - signed up - then got even more L.O.A. stuff sent to me.

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by Marcus

Reason I didn't post the entire article here is because it is over 2000 words and contains a lot of links - meaning I would needed to have reformatted everything to bring it over.

That's a poor excuse in my mind.

Originally Posted by robertanthony

Many of the postings seem to be there to attract interest in other blogs. This place seems to be saturated by L.O.A. adverts and associated problems. I followed one link - signed up - then got even more L.O.A. stuff sent to me.

Yeah, it gets aggravating clicking on threads frequently only to see a link to a post the author wrote on their blog. Frankly, in my view, if a blogger creates a post on this forum just to link to his blog to get traffic, then that tells me his blog doesn't get much traffic and most likely suxs. So why would I want to go visit it?

I even saw one guy who's posted here about 100 times to promote his forum community-something. I visited his forum and saw a post there from a few months ago saying he was going to join this forum and participate so he can try to get people to join his forum. He's kept an open tally of how many new members he's recruited (though he didn't detail where he recruited them from)

[Marcus]

Originally Posted by ixmatus

I believe spiritual development to be essential, if not crucial, to the evolution of any human being. Whether that person calls it 'spiritual' development or not doesn't matter - there is always a connection to that word.

If you are to look at the word 'animus' from Latin (which is also related to C.G. Jung's work) with this definition: animus -i m. [the spiritual or rational principle of life in man], [the seat of thought, intellect, mind, memory, consciousness]. you can see that the word 'spiritual' has a clear connection with not just meditation, incense, and spirits; but also with, the very core of a being that wishes to evolve itself (personal development overlaps and shares attributes with that concept).

In fact, I believe a broader definition suffices: Joy. If one is feeling 'joy' they are no doubt 'being' spiritual, experiencing spirituality, and actively practicing it in that moment (again, whether chanting or playing with a baby). Sitting on a mountaintop meditating brings me joy, reading a book that is interesting, innovative, and expansive (therefore developing my consciousness) is spiritual; or maybe just the finer act of sex, snacking on candy, or laughing with someone.


Honestly, if you are take a holistic view of your evolution in life, you may notice many seemingly unrelated subjects and concepts assisting you in your growth.

Really interesting! Spiritual growth or 'joy' as you put it certainly seem to associate with very simply pleasures. To me it is very much about being in-tune with your body and life.

What would you recommend for experiencing this sort of growth?

Originally Posted by ixmatus

Self-development is, in my opinion, no different than Personal-development; however, Personal-development has a ring to it that sounds more like 'to the benefit of myself AND others', rather than, 'to the benefit of mySelf'. Note that I do not necessarily find any difference between the two concepts - serving thyself in a manner that brings one joy, will indeed benefit not just the self but others as well; pretty much bridging those two worlds without conflict.

Yeah in many ways I don't think there is a difference. But I do think that the 'industry' creates a certainly perception around the idea of personal development.

[Mark Lapierre]

ixmatus: I like what you said.

As I see it 'spiritual' development can be development associated with a non-physical realm, as most people seem to interpret it. But it can also include pursuits which are arguably wholly physical. Rock-climbing can be a spiritual experience, yet it's not commonly thought of as a specifically spiritual experience. But if you follow that train of thought you'll see that the word 'spiritual' can encompass everything, and so "spiritual development" also encompasses all development. To me that makes it a term that is far too abstract to be useful in understand what is actually involved. I.e., is someone tells me they practice spiritual development, that doesn't actually tell me anything.

But I am aware that similar logic applies to personal/self development.

Marcus: I suspect that's why you seem to take issue with some aspects of personal development. The 'industry' built up around some aspects of self-improvement can be far less helpful, and far more deceitful (intentionally or otherwise) than it seems. But that's not the whole of personal development.

If you've read many of my other posts on this forum you might have noticed that I often try to correct semantically incorrect use of specific terms. Ironically it's only after reading some of Jung's works on symbolism, a lot of which I disagree with, that I can accept the fluidity of the words we use, and the meaning we assign them.

I think that "personal" and "self" are too semantically similar for there to be any truly significant difference in the appeal or understanding of the concepts they refer to, regardless of which word is used. Much more important is an understanding of how they're being used, and what the person using them means. So from your post Marcus, it seems that when you say "personal development" you're referring to development aimed at improving productivity, or enjoyment of material pursuits. And it seems that, to you, "self development" means pursuits focused completely on the individual; internal change.

I think both perspectives are valid. They each have their uses. Personal development aimed at improving productivity is great for the guy who wants to become CEO. Some people want that. *shrug*

Yet both perspectives, if only viewed in a limited sense, are flawed. We cannot avoid the facts of our existence, and one of those facts is that we are social creatures. It is fine for a monk to sit on a mountaintop and meditate for years. However he wasn't born there, and I highly doubt he would be sane if he hadn't received extensive training from others before he began his hermitage.

ixmatus mentioned taking a holistic view of your evolution in life, and I think that is extremely important. Human development is progressive; we interact with the environment and our own minds in different ways as we grow. Over time we learn new ways of seeing the world, new ways of thinking, and new ways of interacting with the world and with other people. Any attempts we make at our own development must take this into account. From what I gathered from your post, Marcus, you'd probably acknowledge this, but you seemed to focus on the present and the future, but not so much the past. Without a solid understanding of how we reached the point we're at now, we don't truly understand where we are.

So a chronologically holistic perspective on development is important for effective progress.

But the holistic view also applies to the environment context of one's development. As social creatures, up until that point at which we embark on our solo trek to the mountaintop, we're constantly influenced by others around us. And let's face it, most of us are unlikely to be making that trek, not the least of which is because most of us are unlikely to benefit from extended periods of solitude. One reason for that is probably because we carry the influences of others with us. In other words, even our introspection is influenced by other people. If we look to the past we can see why that might be the case. Research has shown that children learn more effectively when guided by other people if they repeat the instructions to themselves. That is, all else being equal, children who talked to themselves, using the words others spoke to them, performed better. They also performed better in the future when performing similar tasks on their own.

There are many other influences we need to take into account. Family, friends, school, work, various kinds of community groups, and local and global cultural influences. This site provides a good overview of this holistic view of development (and it also considers spiritual development, which a lot of psychological texts don't).

Umm, so basically, whatever you call development, if it is to be comprehensive, needs to take into account your current stage of development, how you got there, where you're going, and all the influences which have and may affect your development.

So, do we need a paradigm shift? No, I don't think so. I think we just need greater contextual awareness.

PS: For anyone reading my blog recently, none of what I've said here should come as a surprise considering I just wrote a series of posts on human development

[ixmatus]

To experience that 'kind' of growth?

Do what humans do best - introspect, think, and be happy. Dream so big you would put DaVinci to shame and sing your song with the pride of a bird.

There is no set specific way for evolution or happiness - it is a natural by-product of our 'Beingness'. Some find it during meditation, others find it writing a sorting algorithm while sill others find it running a one hundred meter dash.

Your life experience will lead you to answers that are specific to you. While they may carry a baseline motif, they will always be tailored specifically to what and how you find meaning in the representation of the cosmos within your consciousness.

Go on a journey, explore the nether regions of your mind through worldly travel or nature walks.

These are the thoughts that work quite well for me.