Don't get scammed by going into college

[Doku]

Originally Posted by ken nubo

Yeah but you have to remember that I'm looking at an entrepreneurial mindset and not an life long employee mindset. Big different.

True. There is a difference in the owner vs worker. I took the track of becoming a worker bee to see what exactly my future workers would be dealing with so that I could best set up a business to succeed. I think that that was ultimately the best track to take. I didn't quite make it this year, but I'm on track to pocket a 7 figure income by the end of next year.

Your milage may vary, but in my experience, the best manager/owners are the ones who have actually done the job that they are expecting their workers to do, as well as having a good business/financial/legal head on their shoulders.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by jaydeschizo

Could you tell me where in Europe this is?

Sweden.

The system in Sweden is such that the government will pay for your university education as long as you are under 34. So basically you have the choice to wait until then to go to university or not. I went to Spain for a summer when I was in college and all the Swedes I met around my age (21) were just travelling around Europe. They were going to different schools, and doing odd jobs: waiting tables, translating, whatever. When I asked why they hadn't started university yet, they told me that most people don't start that till 24 in Sweden. I remember liking the appeal of the concept of being able to go to school for free anytime you felt the urge between ages 18-34.

I remember other Europeans I met telling me the same thing for their countries. I am sure you could find more info on the educational systems of any country you wanted though...

[Tasaio]

Originally Posted by The David

Only to a certain extent. I personally don't find internet communication as beneficial as face-to-face communication.



That's all I'm saying. That entire post was just about me. College is a good experience for some people.

The David, I'm sorry if I took my frustration out on you. I just get tired of being surrounded by people that college is the be-all, end-all experience of a lifetime. I especially get tired of hearing it from people who never went, but who want their kids to have the opportunities college provides.

I realize that you probably aren't like most college students, who are lazy and constantly drunk, so my "drunk" comment was uncalled for. No hard feelings?

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by Tasaio

you probably aren't like most college students, who are lazy and constantly drunk, so my "drunk" comment was uncalled for. No hard feelings?

Where do you get that view that college students are lazy and constantly drunk? That wasn't my experience of it. I knew of a few people who were like that, but they got kicked out within a year or two due to failing rades.

[Zukin]

Originally Posted by seeker5

Where do you get that view that college students are lazy and constantly drunk?

It's easy to get that impression if you hang around a college town after the bars close in the early morning.

Some articles say that college students have an accurate perception of their peers' drinking habits:
Survey Finds Students Have Largely Accurate Perceptions of College Binge Drinking - September 08, 2000 -2000 Releases - Press Releases - Harvard School of Public Health

Perception and Reality: A National Evaluation of Social Norms Marketing Interventions to Reduce College Students' Heavy Alcohol Use

Other studies say the opposite thing (though this study is kind of old):
Biases in the perception of drinking norms among c...[J Stud Alcohol. 1991] - PubMed Result

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by Zukin

It's easy to get that impression if you hang around a college town after the bars close in the early morning.

Heh. Kinda like saying it's easy to say that everyone in America exersizes by checking out the gyms in the morning?

From one of your link:

"At the median, students estimated that 35 percent of all undergraduates binge drink. This is close to the 44 percent rate that researchers have found to exist nationally. In addition, the median student definition of binge drinking is six drinks in a row for men and five for women....That study defined binge drinkers as men who had five or more, or women who had four or more, drinks in a row at least once in a two-week period."

So already from that survey, we know that 56 percent of the students do not binge drink at least once per two week period. So that's a majority of students who don't binge drink. Then the rest only do it at a mininum of once per two week period - so that's hardly "constantly drunk". I'd think for someone to qualify as "constantly drunk" they'd have to be drunk at least 6 out of 7 days, not 1 out of 14 days. .

My guess from my experience are those college students who get drunk, get drunk and party during the weekend. Then during the week they are sober and do the student study thing.

(yes I have known a few of those who were "constantly drunk" under my definition and going to college...and they all failed and got kicked out within a year or so)

[ken nubo]

Yeah I've seen those constantly drunk hot college chicks, they get kick out of college and work as a waitress or call girl or as a cashier.

So the next time you see a hot 25 years old girl at the cash register, keep that in mind.

[The David]

Originally Posted by Tasaio

The David, I'm sorry if I took my frustration out on you. I just get tired of being surrounded by people that college is the be-all, end-all experience of a lifetime. I especially get tired of hearing it from people who never went, but who want their kids to have the opportunities college provides.

I realize that you probably aren't like most college students, who are lazy and constantly drunk, so my "drunk" comment was uncalled for. No hard feelings?

Don't worry about it.

And yeah, I'm never drunk. I find I don't need alcohol to be lazy.

[Brutha]

I remember other Europeans I met telling me the same thing for their countries. I am sure you could find more info on the educational systems of any country you wanted though...

You have that option also in germany, but the majority of students at univerity doesn't has more than 1-2 years between school and unversity.

[Jason S]

I'm surprised that not more people have touched on the value of college beyond getting a job... to limit the value of higher education so severely by suggesting that it is nothing more than a line on a resume--and to subsequently question it so flippantly--is, no offense, incredibly naive.

The economics of higher ed? *That's* an issue. The format of higher ed? *There's* another one. The impact of puritanical drinking restrictions on the party habits of young adults? *Now* we're talking. The points raised above initially, about a trip to the library or the beach, however, are non-starters. They confuse the value of an institution's component parts with the value of their sum total. The result is an assumption that the institution's scrap value (the value of the components) is the same as its intrinsic value (the value of the whole). Logically, that's ridiculous. Would you pay the same price for a working car as for one ready for the junkyard? Would you trade a computer in for a pile of sand, box of plastic, a written set of instructions, and some trace metals, and consider yourself even? That's the argument being made above. The logic is false, and the resulting conclusions are, frankly, dangerous... not just for those who drop out, but for society as a whole.

Personal opinions are wonderful. But if we're going to debate the merits of an institution such as higher education, let's do it with the facts, based on hypotheses that are logically sound.

[ticktockclok]

College is indeed worthless if you go there because everyone else is going there and you're supposed to go there. Or if you're going to something idiotic like a school teacher or a politician. One or both of these two is the case of most every student.

A few people go to college with a purpose: to learn, to make connections, to advance towards a certain goal. These people are the movers and shakers of the world; they're after something bigger.

But if going to college is not withing what will further you towards your goals, then don't make the mistake of going there!

So yes, Tasaio, I agree with you with a slightly more moderate stance.

[Brutha]

College is indeed worthless if you go there because everyone else is going there and you're supposed to go there.

If you simply get a job like most people who don't go to collage that isn't any better.

Or if you're going to something idiotic like a school teacher or a politician.

There is nothing wrong with choosing either of those occupations.

[Addict]

Are we allowed to make parody threads?

If so, I'm going to make a thread called "Don't get scammed by going into kindergarten."

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by Addict

Are we allowed to make parody threads?

If so, I'm going to make a thread called "Don't get scammed by going into kindergarten."

Hehe, that's funny. Although, there is some truth to that line, as hundreds of thousands of americans choose to homeschool their kids rather then send their kids to government schools. When I have kids, I'll do all I can to avoid sending them to government-run schools.

[ken nubo]

I love Kindergarden, I remember riding around in the tricycle, painting random stuff and taking a poop and the teacher had to wipe my butt.

[rbhambha]

If you have a vision, and know your purpose in life, and college and your purpose don't coincide, then college is of no use.

Going to school should be a conscious choice. Too bad most people don't know what they want out of life, so they just go to school because they "should", or because "it's the right thing to do."

If you've got a reason for being in school, other than "I'm scared and I need security," good for you. If you don't, reconsider how you're using your time.

[Zukin]

Originally Posted by Addict

Are we allowed to make parody threads?

If so, I'm going to make a thread called "Don't get scammed by going into kindergarten."

lol, John Taylor Gatto would actually agree with the parody thread:
Against School, by John Taylor Gatto

[Zukin]

Here's another interesting take on college from a former hedge fund manager:

Andy Kessler: Weekly Standard: YouTube U.

[The David]

Originally Posted by ken nubo

I love Kindergarden, I remember riding around in the tricycle, painting random stuff and taking a poop and the teacher had to wipe my butt.

Sounds more like high school to me.

[Floridagal]

There are multiple studies done that show that conceptual skills are much more important for employees than technical skills. Conceptual skills it is somthing we learn in college. As a college professor I feel a huge difference between kids who are just out of High school and kids who are graduating next semester. I teach business and we do encourage work experience and internships. I was the one who spent 11 years in college before I could get my Doctorate. Please let me know if you have additional questions...

[ken nubo]

Originally Posted by Zukin

lol, John Taylor Gatto would actually agree with the parody thread:
Against School, by John Taylor Gatto

LOL ... I'm a BIG fan of John Gatto. I think he's dead now? I read his massive book, "Underground history of American education" back in high school, back in grade 11 .