Nootropics

[Scipio]

Does anyone use nootropics? These are "smart-drugs" that increase certain intelligences, especially certain types of memory, in certain people.

If you are not familiar with nootropics, google "nootropic" "piracetam" "aniracetam" "acetyl-l-carnitine" "choline" "huperzine-A" "vinpocetine" "idebenone" --you should get the idea.

Some are also more related to motivation, mood and self-discipline--like deprenyl, aka selegiline.

[duhshuh]

I've tried several nootropics and I'm still undecided as to how well they work. While trying them I seemed to have greater mental clarity, but I cannot say for sure whether or not they worked.

[uon]

I have become interested in nootropics & 'smart nutrients' over the past few months. Currently I am experimenting with a stack of the nutrients which includes.

Multi Vitamin
Vit B Complex
Vit C
Vit E
Fish Oil
EGCg (Green Tea)
Ginkgo Biloba
Ashwagandha

and added recently

Alpha Lipoic Acid
Acetyl L-Carinitine
Vinpocetine

I can definitely say that the effect of the initial nutrient/herb only stack has been noticeable. I am a student, so each nights study time is a good way for me to gauge my state. About 3-4 weeks after beginning the stack I noticed that I was able sink down to a comfortable level of relaxation/concentration w/o crossing over the brink into sleepiness. I can also maintain focus for longer periods of time, and seem less prone to distraction. As far as I can tell there are no side effects, except really intense and vivid dreams.

The more 'nootropic' stack I've had mixed results with. There is definitely a 'rush' after taking ~1500mg ALCAR, 250mg ALA, and 10mg Vinpocetine. However, it is short lived in terms of experience. Whether or not more oxygen is getting to the brain I have no way of measuring.

This is a very basic nootropic stack, however. With the 'racetams the whole game changes. One of the problems I've had with researching them (Piracetam) in particular, is finding studies with conclusive results. Many of them talk about increased activity in the corpus collosum, indicating enhanced hemispheric interaction, but few have looked into cognitive effects on humans. Most of the evidence then, is anecdotal.

Since this IS the internet and most of what we find online is marketing hype, there is definitely a temptation to try out the 'harder' nootropics (drug-class). It is a risk however, since only Piracetam is the only one thoroughly studied, and even then, it is hard to say clearly what effect it has on our brains & cognition.

[heflin1]

Liquid DMAE has done it for me -
although you don't want to start out with the 1ml daily dose
right off the bat - you'll get a huge headache.
Three drops in liquid is a good start.

You'll also want to take it with some form of flavored liquid,
since it does taste nasty by itself.

I've found it to improve my concentration when I take it.

IIRC, it was part of a prescription drug called Deaner,
which was used for hyperactivity.

[Scipio]

I would read the DMAE profile by Tolsen. It has very little evidence supporting it for healthy humans, and potential side effects. Your improved concentration may not have been due to the DMAE, but believing your concentration is improved.

Bulk Nutrition - DMAE Profile by David Tolson

[Matt]

I experimented with piracetam in college. I went through the whole bottle, it was total bunk.

Now, I am more interested in natural ways to improve intelligence and memory (and health, etc).

[Lonewolf]

I've experimented with most of them, piracetam, modafinal etc.
The best and by far the cheapest is actually the herb gingko biloba - but everyone reacts differently and I tend to be quite sensitive to these things. Gingko makes the capilliaries in your body and brain dilate so you receive a better blood flow. It gives you a great sense of alertness and calm, but if you take too much you will get headaches and have trouble sleeping.
Warning though - most of these drugs/herbs are disguised stimuants, though they work on different pathways than caffeine or nicotine. I had a friend, a hard working advertising executive, who went on smart drugs for 2 years and totally burnt himself out at the end of it; his immune system, everything was shot to pieces.
He was trying to get away with less sleep each day, it caught up with him eventually.

[Rach]

After looking into the different kinds of nootropics, I think I'm going to give it a try.
Tomorrow I plan on going to the health/vitamin store...I made a list:
Ginkgo Biloba
DMAE
Huperzine A
Acetyl-L-carnitine
Phosphatidylserine

[Lonewolf]

I would also like to add that none of these smart drugs can take the place of a good determined work ethic ; but they can support this to some degree.

[Rach]

When is the best time to take them? In the morning, afternoon, night??

[Reyv]

I'm surprised noone mentioned Spike. From the marketing material:

How would you like to have the best workout of your life – every time you train?

How would like to have the energy of ephedrine, without the jitters?

How would you like the mental clarity and mood elevation of amphetamine, without using a controlled substance?

How would you like all of this, without negative side effects: no addiction and no down-regulation of receptors requiring ever-increasing doses?

Well, bubba, you can have it all with one bad-boy . . .

His name is Spike! . . . and he'll blow your freakin' head off – with ammo to spare!

I haven't personally tried it yet, but I trust the manufacturer, and I've heard extremely positive things about the product.

Ingredient list shows:

Biotest® GBX [guarana-berry extract (containing theophylline and caffeine)], T-MAX™ [Biotest® proprietary thiamine di(2-methylpropionate) disulfide], natural caffeine, yohimbine HCl

They have a caffeine-free version as well, and it's going on my next order. It contains only their proprietary formula, without the extra yohimbine, et al.

T-MAX™ [Biotest® proprietary thiamine di(2-methylpropionate) disulfide]

I should probably mention that I don't generally care much for stims. I'm only looking into Spike because I have yet to hear of any side-effects, and it got glowing reviews from a number of people I trust.

[Lonewolf]

Creatine also has a mental boosting side effect, though normally it is taken to encourage muscle growth. It causes cells to in the body to dillate with water.

[JTierney]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

Creatine also has a mental boosting side effect, though normally it is taken to encourage muscle growth. It causes cells to in the body to dillate with water.

Unless they've repeated it, I'd caution that so far that's only been a single study and that it was with vegitarians. It could easily be that they were suffering mental effects from lowered levels of creatine that supplementation then just brought back up to normal levels. From other studies, it seems suggestive that it might be a cognitive enhancer, but I'd just be a bit careful at assuming so at this point.

As for most nootropics, I'm somewhat unimpressed. A lot of the studies are pretty bad, and those on healthy young humans are diamonds in the rough. That said, I think it's an amazingly cool subject. On a personal level, I'm a little annoyed that someone who'd at least claimed to start a battery of studies on a lot of the popular ones never followed through. It's a big shouting match, but the gist of it is that while I actually had the resources to do it while still in school I wasted it on yet another meta-analysis of caffeine. I'd still like to do a study on piracetam in particular, since I've had a number of debates about the strength or weakness of a lot of the existing studies. But I've either been poor, moving on a regular basis, or both since getting out of school. Neither lend themselves well to taking up something like that. A tiny study would be more doable, but I'd really want something more definitive if I ever did sit down to put one together.

[Stu]

Ive experimented with piracetam. While I thought there was a slightly noticable boost in concentration and general mental capacity, im hesitant to take anything like that without some good studies done on its effects, which I have yet to find.

Like someone else said, im interested in more natural ways of acheiving the same effect.

[Lonewolf]

You will find that with most of these substances, different individuals will have wildly different experiences, depending on sensitivity, metabolism, other substances they have taken recently etc. So, looking at studies might give some general clues, but really you have to be actively experimenting on yourself if you want to find smart drugs that work for you.
My statement about creatine is based on direct and personal experience. I orginally took it to assist with bodybuilding, but found it to be a general body and mind tonic. Gingko still rules though - dirt cheap and almost instantly effective.

[glock20]

Lonewolf- How much Gingko do you take per day....i took various amounts (30mg-150 mg per day) and it only made me sleepy and made my ears ring so loud the neighbors could hear it....

[Scipio]

You guys mentioned natural (non-pharmaceutical) methods of enhancing cognition. What could they be? Are there certain "mental exercises"?