Is Personal Development For Poor People?

[Zero]

Poor does not simply pertain to how much money a person has, its a state of mind, a way of life that completely consumes you. I lived this life for a long time. Broken home. Manic depressive father. My brother, my sister and myself struggling to survive. I can go on and on about this...

I was the first person in my family to receive a high school diploma, and, after seven years, graduate from college with a 4 year degree. Now, I have a great software engineering job and working on starting my own software development company. Somehow (I still do not know how) I "made it". I broke free of the poor that completely consumed me.

During the time that I was poor, I read books like "7 Habits of Highly Effective People", "Power of Focus", "Chicken Soup for the Soul", the list goes on and on. These books were no help. I understood what they were trying to convey, but I could see no way to apply it to my situation. I want to underscore this: these books were useless. How can I think positive when I can't afford to go to the doctor when I am sick? Etc.

I started to read these books again recently, and I get much more out of them now. But, I also see why they were so useless when I was poor. In one of the books the author, Stephen Covey, describes a struggle he had. His son was struggling through school, getting made fun of, etc. He goes on for a few pages about how him and his wife agonized over this for months. A poor person cannot relate to this. The guy is lucky he has a loving wife, a home and time to go to his son's baseball games. My father would have killed to have that situation.

Another book talked about a guy who had a horrible car accident, and the doctors said he would never walk again. But, he thinks positive and works hard, and walks again. Yay. A poor person cannot relate to this either. The guy could afford a car. Afford quality healthcare. This guy had it made.

I have come to the conclusion that the personal development is just not for poor people. More evidence is that some of these seminars that are offered cost more than I used to make in a month. When I was poor, I needed real help, real advice and personal development was not going to cut it. Smile. Think positive. Yeah right.

So, I pose the question: Is personal development for poor people?

[tropicality]

Personal development is meant for ANYONE, the reason people are poor is because of their beliefs, not because of personal development, also, who needs seminars? There is tonnes of free online articles that can have much the same effect.

Due to the impact that the following piece of writing had on my belief's of this whole situation (yes I've read all kinds of things from 'Think and Grow Rich to online money blogs).

But this piece.. being spiritual in nature, has really hit the spot, because I feel that all physical things, have a spiritual side to them - and the spiritual side applies to MANY different physical things.

Read with an open mind: 9D Nibiruan Council's Money Perspective

[sadavis00]

At its core, personal development is "improving your lot". If you are poor (and this is depressing for you), the main focus of your personal development should be getting money. If you are motivated enough (and intelligent enough), you will learn most the specific things that help you achieve this goal thorough osmosis or trial and error, you improve almost "unconciously". (I am basing this from what I have observed among previously poor, but now successful people I've met). But once that motivation from the physical shocks of life (like from being poor) is gone, you need to work "consciously" to improve. I think this is why reading books etc. to improve is better suited to people living comfortably. Most of the now rich and successful people I've known, did not take that step to "conciously" try to improve, hence they have fallen behind in a lot of areas of life, except the financial area ofcourse

[Ilya]

Zero, I think that you yourself is the best example that personal development is for poor as well as anyone else. Personal development is an internal process of growth, of becoming better. It isn't books, seminars or online articles. Those are the means to help with the internal process. And yes, they can be hard to relate to in the situation that you've described.

Are you familiar with Maslow's pнramid? It is the model that says that human needs are organised in an hierarchy. And until the lower needs are not satisfied, it is very difficult to satisfy the higher ones. So if a person is hungry and in pain, it is very hard to satisfy the need for self-esteem. I'm saying it is hard, but it is not impossible. The history holds a lot of counter-examples. But we acknowledge the difficulty of preserving or reaching one's higher levels of consciousness despite hardships on a basic level by calling those who managed - heroes, (or saints, or martyrs if look at the religious people).

But look, Zero, you did grow. You managed it. You started being poor to the point you couldn't relate to the personal development books, to the point where you life has changed for the better. Wasn't it personal development you went through? I think it is was. And a spectacular one. I believe it was not easy. You did something to overcome the difficulties. I don't know what it was, but maybe if you think about, you did some of the things that are described in the personal development books, although not consciously.

So why do you say, that personal development is not for the poor? I think it is primarily for the poor, because without going through personal development they would stay where they are.

[Josip]

Originally Posted by Zero

...

So, I pose the question: Is personal development for poor people?

Great post Zero!

When I saw the caption, I thought only to write "yes, pd is for poor people too".

Now, after reading your post, I still think it is for everyone, that is for sure, but maybe is needed different approach to poor people.

Maybe you can give us the answer. What words or what approach could help when you was in difficult situation, to give you impuls and encourage you to become better in every aspect?

[Josip]

Originally Posted by Ilya

But look, Zero, you did grow. You managed it. You started being poor to the point you couldn't relate to the personal development books, to the point where you life has changed for the better. Wasn't it personal development you went through? I think it is was. And a spectacular one. I believe it was not easy. You did something to overcome the difficulties. I don't know what it was, but maybe if you think about, you did some of the things that are described in the personal development books, although not consciously.

So why do you say, that personal development is not for the poor? I think it is primarily for the poor, because without going through personal development they would stay where they are.

I agree with everything.

[dorothy hanna]

Zero,
Look back, and remember the thoughts you thought, that took you in the direction you went. Do you remember making a decision? What was/were these decisions? From that decision, do you remember finding or making oppurtunities, and taking advanyage of these that alighned with a plan, and a goal you got into your field of existance? Do you remember thinking over and over again, where you want to get to? What you want to do?
It seems to me, you have a good book, (A REALLY GOOD BOOK) in you, that will directly speak to the poor, and how they can do, what you did. You can be the help to that very group, that you have a lot of empathy for. I think you can be that one, who can really speak to them, at the place they are, RIGHT NOW, as you can still speak their language, you still have the freah memory of being where they are, in life. I've always wanted to find a book, that spoke, and addressed me personally, that was full of the very things I needed to know, and do to help me progress out of poverty. I've done much better than I used to do. I did this as an adult. All the while, I've always felt I've brought with me, that poor little girl, that I was, and who still identifies with the poor, and has difficulty identifying with the rich, no matter how well I do. I look forward to finding, and reading that book, to that poor little girl, in my heart.

[Fusebox]

Zero, First of all, I congratulate you for making it, and on your way to better things.

PD really depends on how you define it. From reading your post I get the impression that you believe you need to put money into it to get the most of out of it. This isnt true. PD first and foremost starts from within. I think you showed this by taking the initiative to actually read those books.

(Almost) all of us know we want to be better, but we fail to direct our attention, we lack some discipline, we lack persistence, we lack the ability to fight the situation we're in. It takes time, with effort and persistence, it compounds the benefits in long term.

My humble suggestion would be to try and see it from another perspective.

[Traffic]

I don't see what difference it makes whether you're rich, poor, or indifferent. However, there does seem to be an abundance of personal development 'gurus' who like to put financial wealth at the top of their agenda. Personally, I find it very annoying that people even put financial wealth into a personal development agenda at all. It's apparent that there's a growing culture which says that if you're not a millionaire, you're not worth the time of day. It's not a culture I'm keen to be part of to be honest, I'd rather be poor than bigging up my financial status.[/rant]

In my experience, it is those from financially poorest cultures that maintain the highest of personal wealth in respect to their being.

Going back on topic...There's a lot of crap out there, most of which is worthy of nothing but the trash can. There's also some real good quality stuff waiting to be discovered, something for everyone, you just need to find it.

[Emerald]

"So, I pose the question: Is personal development for poor people?"

I would have to agree that 'packaged' self development is not really easily accessible to poor people. By this I mean books, tapes, seminars etc. These tend to cost money and also TIME. PD is a very time-centred activity. Time that you don't have 'spare' because you need to make money or find some other way of satisfying basic needs.

So I think the problem is more fundamental - it's difficult to have an open and enquiring mind, curiosity and the feeling that you deserve to have good stuff when you are preoccupied with finding your next meal or somewhere to sleep.

It's seems like a classic Catch 22 situation. You need the space in your head to have room for the reflection and questioning that goes with pursuing personal development and often it seems that you can't get that space because other more pressing matters keep you firmly anchored to the food, shelter, security layer of Mazlow's hierarchy. It need'nt be either/or though, if you can find even little bit of security then you can relax enough for the process of life improvement to begin. So there you go, improve you life and then you'll have time to improve your life!

[Lotus]

What an intriguing question!

I do have to side with the "PD is for everyone" faction. I grew up poor. My dad is a teacher, but he is a farmer as well. Basically, all the money he makes teaching is thrown into the farm, where it disappears (ever hear the joke, "what is a farm?" the answer: "a hole in the ground, surrounded by a fence, into which one throws money").

We lived paycheck to paycheck, in part because a lot of money was also thrown at my health problems. Did I say a lot? I mean "most". (I felt guilty about it.) My dad was the first person in our family to go to college, but he wouldn't let go of his roots in ag, so he never got out of the hole that his parents were in. My sister, my brother, and are I are college kids. Nobody paid for it for us; we have student loans. My sister graduated from nursing school last year and is now an RN... paying off $40,000 in student loans. There were times when she worked 3 jobs and took classes in order to be able to afford a p.o.s. little grubby apartment in the ghetto. Worth it? I think so. Now, she's married, has a beautiful daughter (and number 2 due Thanksgiving!), and works as an ER nurse, and she loves it.

Originally Posted by tropicality

Personal development is meant for ANYONE, the reason people are poor is because of their beliefs, not because of personal development, also, who needs seminars?

This really bothered me. Have you ever talked to a homeless person on the street? They're not all alcoholics and drug users. Some of them have mental illness, and that's not about choice. You can't magic schizophrenia away. And some of them just got into a situation where too many uncontrollable factors came down hard. These people have no social network to fall back on. And because they are poor, they don't have the opportunity to form a supportive network. It's a catch-22 a lot of times.

I've done a lot volunteering among really poor people, and no, it's not always about their beliefs.

People say, "Well there are opportunities that they could take, but they don't." Well, they can't always take those opportunities, usually because of a really human problem. Like -- if I take classes, I can't afford to pay someone to watch my kids.

It's easy, here, among people who are naturally talented, and often very driven, to sit back and pass judgement. Try going out and getting some human contact with these people, rather than just reading about them. Success is often a combination of talent, drive, and opportunity. Take one away, and ... *poof*... no success.

And there are a lot of kids out there who are raised in homes where they are not exposed to "you can do anything" thinking.

So yeah... please don't put a value judgement on a group of people and stigmatize them... at least until you've been out and talked to them face to face.

[Cron]

Zero;

I think in your post you identified the problem (at least in your case) with poor people not getting a lot out of PD. You wrote several times that you couldn't relate to the examples in the various books you read.

I have found that many people have trouble making a distinction between a lesson and an example illustrating the lesson.

I think that is crucial, as much of PD is not so much about coming up with the lessons ( many of which have been known for centuries ) as it is in inspiring people to use those lessons in the face of adversity and VERY delayed gratification.

A large part of being inspired by someone is in being able to relate to them.

Maybe that is your hook should you ever choose to go the Steve Pavlina route for the benefit of people from your background.

[WanderingOak]

To tell you the truth, most 'packaged' PD sources haven't spoken much to me, either. I was able to get somthing from each one that I read, but in most cases, the whole system didn't apply. What did help was my willingness to change myself. Libraries are free, and believe me, when I was a teenager, I practically lived there (hey, it had A/C which was better than my apartment).

I grew up in poverty myself, and actually used that to my advantage to get into Berea College in Berea, KY. They mainly take poor applicants, and all students get a work/study scholarship which pays for everything- tuition, room, board, and in many cases even textbooks. For my freshman year, there was $35.00 left over from all of the grants and scholarships that I was eligible for. After college, I was still destitute, so I gave six years of my life to the (peacetime) US Military. I served one term, got out with technical training, a security clearance, a paid for car, money in the bank, and I never looked back. Of course this may not be a viable option now, just because there is a bit of a war going on right now, but if you would like, there are non-combatant ratings that should be open.

[Zero]

I think this is a fascinating area, and I am quite passionate about it.

I truly believe that authors like Stephen Covey, and bloggers like Steve Pavlina truly want to help people. They have a message that is worthwhile to everyone, rich, poor and everyone in between. I do not want to take anything away from what these people are doing. I think its great. However, the message is not packaged in a way poor people can relate to.

Yes, Maslo's triangle and the hierarchy of needs plays into this somewhat. If you are truly starving, then a healthy diet or working on relationships is the last thing on your mind. But, in America, even the poorest of the poor have it better than many in third world countries.

One aspect of personal development is the idea of choice and personal responsibility. If you are poor, you are born into an environment where your family is struggling and people around you are struggling. Your suffocated by it. As I interpret personal development, all of this is my fault, my choice and my responsibility. From the poor perspective, this is not fair and, frankly, insulting. I did not "choose" the life I was born into, my environment and family dynamics.

If the receiver of a message is feeling like they are being attacked, this is the absolute worst way to communicate. People shutdown and become defensive when they are attacked - it's just natural. Personal development authors are not trying to do this on purpose, its just how it plays out.

[Cron]

Originally Posted by Zero

One aspect of personal development is the idea of choice and personal responsibility. If you are poor, you are born into an environment where your family is struggling and people around you are struggling. Your suffocated by it.

I have read statements like that many times over the years. Many non-poor people are unaware of that reality and others simply refuse to accept it.

[WanderingOak]

Originally Posted by Cron

I have read statements like that many times over the years. Many non-poor people are unaware of that reality and others simply refuse to accept it.

Precisely. It took me more than 10 years to climb out of the pit of poverty, and a considerable part of my journey involved no longer thinking of myself as poor. Once I removed myself from the negative influences of family members who refused to help themselves or let me help myself, I was finally able to start the process. Steve said in more than one article that one of the best ways to quit a bad habit or start a good one is to change your environment so you are no longer surrounded by reminders of the bad habit, but instead surrounded by reminders of the reminders of the good habits you are attempting to acquire.

[madgeylou]

this is a subject near and dear to my heart, as i grew up in a very chaotic and impoverished family. i am one of the ones who "made it out" so to speak, and i find that whenever i talk about justice, poverty, hunger, welfare, etc., i get a lot of comments like "well you were able to make it out, why should we help these other people when there's someone like you who can do it on their own?"

first off, i tell these folks, no one does it on their own. i didnt have a lot of money, but my dad loved me, my grandma loved me, and my teachers believed in me and instilled a HUGE amount of confidence in me from a very young age. that confidence right there? in my opinion, it's the reason i'm fairly successful now.

secondly -- well this one is a little trickier. bear with me while i sort it out.

when you think about society from a societal level, you have to agree that, yes, racism, classism, poverty, and disenfranchisment exist. poor people get screwed with to an enormous degree -- no car? that means youre riding the bus 3 hours a day to your ♥♥♥♥♥♥ job in the suburbs. no bank account? then hand over 3% of your check if you want the cash buddy. no grocery store in your neighborhood? then you are either riding the bus even more, or buying $3 wonder bread from the bodega.

a worldview which does not acknowledge these basic inequities does not honor the truth as most poor people live it every day. these inequities are something we as a society need to do our best to understand and address.

BUT ... and this is the magic but ... we dont live our lives from a societal point of view. when you are looking at your own life, being oppressed cant be the end of the story. yes, i was born with some inherent disadvantages like not having a stable home, but i refused to let that be the end-all of my life. i turned the societal-level truths into obstacles that i was determined to overcome.

in my opinion, that is the only way to reach poor people. acknowledge that they are screwed because they are. but let them know that's not the end of the story -- it's just the beginning. it's like the set up of "the fellowship of the ring" -- frodo is screwed for sure. but with time, effort, and determination, he is able to overcome the odds and make his contribution to the world. he didnt look at the odds and shrug and give up.

people also have to be exposed to examples of folks who have climbed out of the same bad situation into a more comfortable and better one. just as i am not instantaneously going to start speaking fluent swahili (a language i have never heard), someone who has never seen real live "success" is not all of a sudden going to start believing in it.

[tropicality]

Lotus, thankyou for your reply, it has allowed me to see this kind of thing from the larger perspective. I myself may not be what I would call 'successful' yet, however I am in the process of conditioning my beliefs at an early age. I also don't believe that indulging myself in non-successful (from my own definition) people's lives will help me out in any way, maybe once I am enjoying wealthy abundance in all forms I may get involved on an individual level.

But, I still think that (putting mental born illnesses aside) that any person had the choice at one time in their life, to condition their beliefs (even if their original beliefs were imposed upon them by people around them, as is usually the case) and put them in situations to help prevent such things as becoming homeless and being in other scenarios you have mentioned.

[demk]

Personal development gains momentum. Its so hard when your seemingly locked in a bad situation but your forward motion becomes exponential after a point. I was depressed for years and searched long and hard before I found the particular pieces of advice which actually helped. What finally changed was when I said that I had had enough and was definately going to do something to change. I asked the heavens "This is it, I've had enough. I wannt to ascend" and after that i found the resources that actually helped. before that all self help materials were just feeding the dream that I might actually change i.e. feeding my ego.

I threw away loads of books thinking they didnt work but they werent aimed at people at my level. 7 Habits was a waste of my time but A New Earth made a significant difference to my thinking and enabled me to get past my ego, stop letting it drain all my energy with useless thoughts and stop controlling my life in the way it did. It wasnt an instant change but that book lead me on the right track. For the first time in years I felt lucid. I could actually think. I thought I had ADD but it was just not conscious. I let my habitual forms of thinking rule my life.

Poor people need the right advice at the right time. They need practical advice and the right mental coaching. If I could go back and coach myself I would know exactly what advice to give at what time but unfortunately it doesnt work like that. Like I did, you just have to keep experimenting until you get the right advice at the right time. For that you need the belief that it is possible and the inclination which is what keeps you searching.

[Cron]

Originally Posted by WanderingOak

Once I removed myself from the negative influences of family members who refused to help themselves or let me help myself, I was finally able to start the process. Steve said in more than one article that one of the best ways to quit a bad habit or start a good one is to change your environment so you are no longer surrounded by reminders of the bad habit, but instead surrounded by reminders of the reminders of the good habits you are attempting to acquire.

How did you family and friends discourage you? Telling you it couldn't be done? Encouraging you to divert time and money away from your hopes?

[Cron]

Originally Posted by madgeylou

"well you were able to make it out, why should we help these other people when there's someone like you who can do it on their own?".

I'm guessing that people refuse to accept how hard it is to climb out of poverty as a shield against having to care in a painful way. I think it is natural when you hear about someone in an unfortunate to feel empathy. I think for some people that is confused with a fear that they will have to give up something or feel a kind of "survivor's guilt".

In conversations like these another one of the stock responses I always see are people waxing nostalgic about a poor period in their college days or going on about their immigrant parents who had less, did more.

[WanderingOak]

Originally Posted by Cron

How did you family and friends discourage you? Telling you it couldn't be done? Encouraging you to divert time and money away from your hopes?

In my mother's case, it was by telling me it couldn't be done. She was the master of making excuses for herself and anybody else. She said that I was too short (5 foot 6) to get ahead, that my last name was at the end of the alphabet (began with 'S') so I was always picked last in class, and that I was never any good at math so any technical field was out of the question. All BS I knew even then, but she BELIEVED in her victimization routine, and was upset that I didn't. She wouldn't let me get a license or even learn how to drive while I was living at home, saying that I would quadruple her insurance rates, so after college, I joined the Navy, just so I could gain some independence (how's THAT for irony). A few years ago, she actively tried to discourage me from ever leaving town, basically accusing me of elder abuse. She wasn't well, and really couldn't help herself from behaving that way. Any 'help' that she would have received would have been on the state's bill, and probably not have been very pretty.

My (divorced) father was just ridiculously cheap and refused to support me as I was growing up. Neither one would pay for my glasses, so basically I was stumbling about in a fog until I could afford my own. In high-school, my friends really didn't didn't discourage me at all. A few tried to help me get jobs as a teenager, but my dad wouldn't let me get working papers, so that fell through.

After I joined the Navy, it was a different story. My 'peers', mostly kids 5-10 years my junior, were not interested in anything but binge drinking, strip-joints and video games, three things I was never interested in, so we didn't associate much. They thought I was a stuck-up prick, and I thought they were a bunch of overgrown spoiled adolescents. I was enlisted (recruiters are paid quite well to lie- they told me that the military had a glut of officers and didn't want or need any liberal arts degrees. It turns out the exact opposite was true), so while I felt more akin to Officers, association with them was considered fraternization, so technically I wasn't allowed to even talk to them when I was off-duty. I pretty much kept to myself then, my main goals being to stay out of trouble and get out debt-free with money in the bank. Afterwards, I was finally able to start working on my PD (or 'worthing' as I preffer to call it)

[digimint]

Zero....StevePavlina.com is free and for everyone. So is our site Free and for everyone who choses to take what they like and leave the rest.
MySuccessGateway

[ImOpen]

Saying that Zero did develop and that "personal development" therefore is for poor people to is frankly speaking poor reasoning. The term "personal development" is referring to not only the process but also the means - the books and so forth - and obviously these were of no help for Zero.

I think you, Zero, have drawn a correct conclusion. It is not for poor people. Instead it can be harmful because it only delays work on what is _really important - making friends, getting therapy etc.

I know it because I've been there. And I don't think that many motivational speakers have. Both (two examples) Steve Pavlina and Tony Robbins, when talking about their worst periods in life, are talking about circumstantial things. 1. Being addicted to stealing etc. 2. His father leaving him.
I would bet my bankroll that none of these gentlemen have been clinically depressed for example. It is impossible, because some (some) of their beliefs would appear "a bit" naïve with the knowledge gained from that experience.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by digimint

Zero....StevePavlina.com is free and for everyone.

It's not free for people who cannot afford internet access.

[WanderingOak]

Originally Posted by Keith

It's not free for people who cannot afford internet access.

As I mentioned earlier, the Library is free, and most Libraries have internet access (at least in the U.S.).

[RT Wolf]

I think what Zero is getting at is that most of hte material out there is not targetted towards people of lower socio-economic status. And that's true. I hate to say this, but that's because there are fewer poor people compared to a massive middle class. That means that most people who are into PD will come from a larger middle class (although there are people who rose from poverty, but they're proportionally fewer), thus they will largely talk about problems related to middle classes and that living. Add to that the idea that the middle class is perhaps the most profitable to sell to, you've got material highly targetted towards that group.

So, you're right, the materials out there are targetted more towards the middle class. On the other hand, personal development is about bettering yourself. While having materials is great and all, you can do it without the right materials (as I think you've done).

Excuse me if this post doesn't make sense or is inappropriate, I'm not all here today.

[CeciL]

The ONLY way short of winning the lottery a poor person becomes "not poor" is through PD and there are many out there who have made from the bottom.

Maybe not the expensive shiny packaged PD. But, this site is free isn't it? As well as a million others. The library is free also. One must develop their person to become greater than what they are. What keeps one poor is the different brainwashing err I mean social conditioning that the middle class, upper class and so forth receive.

Typical middle class America's school experience is something like Degrassi. While the poor person's experience of school is similar to an experience in prison.

[stephencp]

"Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." Matthew 19:24

How many of Christs and Buddha's followers were rich? Perhaps the poor have a leg up on the rest of us....

Stephen
Power-Book Library: Free personal development, success, inspiration and motivational classics

[Susie]

Add to that the idea that the middle class is perhaps the most profitable to sell to, you've got material highly targetted towards that group.


Exactly...can someone tell me which publishers are targeting their books to the extremely poor? I can imagine that wouldn't exactly be the smartest marketing decision. Personal development/self-help is a business, afterall.

I grew up poor and I don't know if that has much to do with it but the 7 Habits was useless for me, too. Also it seems that a lot of the popular personal development books (especially those written by men) are geared toward people who work in sales-- not my thing at all. Tony Robbins also leaves me cold. I find some of Steve's articles useful but I have to say I think he might be stretching the whole "I wasn't always like this...there was that <i>one</i> semester in college when I slept til noon..."

Well this is a rather unfocused reply but there it is.