Money Comparison between me and Steve Pavlina

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by roxyruby

Aw thanks for being supportive of me Sandra <3 Sandra honestly I think it boils down to being scared that my BF will get mad at me

like he checks my phone calls/messages etc sometimes and reads what I've been saying on the forums sometimes and gets angry easily cause of his worry about me flirting with or seeing another guy so like if he saw AG speaking to me like that he might get suspicious and think there's something going on and be mad at me

so that may be a reason why I seemed like I was "over-reacting" to others and being too serious.

Fair enough Ruby...

I'm OK now. Hope my anger didn't make ya feel bad.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by roxyruby

thank you Sandra, maybe I have some fears to work through of him being angry at me or not loving me

I know I've had the "if he's angry at me, it means my worth has been lowered as a human being" which used to be an unconscious belief, but now I know it's a belief that was /is causing me problems.

LOL Roxyruby, you are a younger (smarter and prettier) version of myself at that age...

I've had trouble with people getting angry with me for a long long time as well. It would hurt my stomach, I'd do everything to make things right again. Even apologizing when I knew I wasn't wrong. Even up to begging to be forgiven so everything could just be right again....

Funny enough, once I stopped doing that, and started treating myself like a more worthwhile person in this relationship, so did the other person. And all of the sudden he wasn't angry with me nearly as much and if he was, it didn't effect me nearly as much anymore.

Strange how that works...

[Gene]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

DUDE

ROXY

Can you see how calling me a sexual harrasser has made people think I've repeatedly called you something after you told me not to? That's just what Gene seems to have understood, correct me if I'm wrong Gene.

You asked me to stop once and I did. So I have not harrassed anyone! But now people assume I have!

Do you see why I have a problem with this?

Andrew, I don't think you were behaving improperly. I like you would have stopped when I understood it truly bothered someone. There is no intent to blame in my mind or my heart.

[roxyruby]

Originally Posted by ssandra

LOL Roxyruby, you are a younger (smarter and prettier) version of myself at that age...

I've had trouble with people getting angry with me for a long long time as well. It would hurt my stomach, I'd do everything to make things right again. Even apologizing when I knew I wasn't wrong. Even up to begging to be forgiven so everything could just be right again....

Funny enough, once I stopped doing that, and started treating myself like a more worthwhile person in this relationship, so did the other person. And all of the sudden he wasn't angry with me nearly as much and if he was, it didn't effect me nearly as much anymore.

Strange how that works...

That's a good tip Sandra, thank you! Prettier pfttttt. We are equally as gorgeous

[Andrew Gubb]

There is no intent to blame in my mind or my heart.

Thanks Gene.....

[Lucidism]

I'm not normally one to jump in and defend a vegan ( Andrew ) but I saw quite a bit of reverse harassment applied to Andrew and that was not cool.

Some people seemed to have a problem with him defending himself against a sexual harassment claim, but I noticed that Roxy's sexual harassment claim is in of itself an "offensive claim" too. Double "harassment"!!

I've also seen many people comment on Roxy's looks in a positive way, with no negative repercussions, so what a surprise for Andrew it probably was to see it suddenly bother her. Looks like it was the word "my" that triggered the reaction.

Anyway, I'm glad you two have sorted it out. I was surprised at the situation.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Lucidism

I'm not normally one to jump in and defend a vegan ( Andrew ) but I saw quite a bit of reverse harassment applied to Andrew and that was not cool.

Some people seemed to have a problem with him defending himself against a sexual harassment claim, but I noticed that Roxy's sexual harassment claim is in of itself an "offensive claim" too. Double "harassment"!!

I've also seen many people comment on Roxy's looks in a positive way, with no negative repercussions, so what a surprise for Andrew it probably was to see it suddenly bother her. Looks like it was the word "my" that triggered the reaction.

Anyway, I'm glad you two have sorted it out. I was surprised at the situation.

I would agree. It's no wonder that guys often feel like they're walking on eggshells about women's reactions to things like paying small compliments or opening doors -- you never know when someone might lash out at you for "offending" them.

[Honeywith4bees]

Yeah ~ I totally felt like Andrew got the short end of the stick on this one.

[SatvikBeri]

Originally Posted by Angela

I would agree. It's no wonder that guys often feel like they're walking on eggshells about women's reactions to things like paying small compliments or opening doors -- you never know when someone might lash out at you for "offending" them.

I've been slapped and yelled at for holding a door open for a (female) stranger once. That was weird.

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by SatvikBeri

I've been slapped and yelled at for holding a door open for a (female) stranger once. That was weird.

Woa.

THAT kinda puts things in perspective lol X)

[Lucidism]

Originally Posted by SatvikBeri

I've been slapped and yelled at for holding a door open for a (female) stranger once. That was weird.

LOL, dang man.

I would have laughed my ass off!

"Sorry ma'am, next time I'll slam it in yo' face!" Boomshakalaka!

[Piercetheveil]

I'

ve been slapped and yelled at for holding a door open for a (female) stranger once. That was weird.

I would have mistaken that for foreplay.

[Tam9]

Originally Posted by Lucidism

I'm not normally one to jump in and defend a vegan ( Andrew ) but I saw quite a bit of reverse harassment applied to Andrew and that was not cool.

Some people seemed to have a problem with him defending himself against a sexual harassment claim, but I noticed that Roxy's sexual harassment claim is in of itself an "offensive claim" too. Double "harassment"!!

I would have to agree with this!

Andrew didn't deserve that kind of reaction. 'My lady, my good man, my dear, my lovlies, my beautiful, my anything'.......are typically terms of endearment in the English language; nothing more, nothing less.

[roxyruby]

hey AG I'm sorry!

I definitely did not mean to harass you.

Can someone explain how I was harassing AG?

For the 6th time or something, I thought he harassed me cause I thought he understood that I was saying no to being talked to like that then continued calling me "my" something deliberately. But after talking it through, THAT was a misunderstanding.

That's what I thought. It also was the "my" thing, and the meaning behind that.

Maybe I need to see words as just meaningless words more, and forget about meaning and guessing what the other person means by what they say. (I have a habit of guessing something really negative and harsh towards myself)

*Hugs* ^ ^

[elucidate]

Actually AG, you don't really know how it makes you look in our eyes. Give us a bit more credit than that.

As you can see if you look around, there are different people here backing you up and seeing both sides. RR didn't call you a "sexual harasser" though...that's actually YOU over-reacting and making it more than it was, though I agree it could definately be construed as her being offensive towards you...there are two sides to this story and yours is equally as valid as hers is.
RR asked you to stop sexually harassing her...she didn't say the words 'you are a sexual harasser'. Can you see that you reacted emotionally in the same way as RR did? It's totally understandable that you did react this way by the way...anyone would have.

RR is entitled to feel how she feels, as are you. You are both taking each others words the wrong way! From an outside perspective, you may both want to consider this?

I can see that you didn't mean to cross any lines. That you were being playful. I interpreted "my beautiful...and my lady" in the medieval Lord and Lady sense...which is how I think you intended it to mean.

I agree that RR took it out of context and reacted emotionally to a harmless comment. That's my oppinion.

I'm not invalidating your experience here RR, but I think you may have brainwashed yourself a little bit to Wiki definitions and outside definitions without coming up with your own definitions and oppinions about it.

This is easy to do when you read alot of different books and webpages that portray something in one light. We are all susceptible to it...it's good to think for yourself though...which I know you do, to a certain extent, I just think that, in this case you have taken on these definitions without questioning them, and reacted to a little harmless comment with extreme sensitivity...
There's nothing wrong with that, but it can lead to situations like this, where a person gets accused of a serious thing, when they meant no harm at all. Peoples lives can get ruined this way, when they didn't really deserve it. Something to think about anyway.

I'm not saying that to invalidate you or abuse you...but sometimes females do over-react. I'm a woman, and I can vouch for it...we do over-react at times.

It makes it difficult to know when we are really over-reacting and when we are being invalidated when we are told this by someone.

I wonder how many of the people who compiled the Wiki definition, and all the other definitions of sexual harassment were female...and how many of them are radical feminists? Probably quite a few if not all of them.

It's good to take this into consideration when you are reading things written by strangers, as it can give you a good idea of their mentality and where they are coming from. Radical feminists are pretty notorious for jumping down the throats of any man who says anything remotely sounding like he is trying to 'claim' a woman or 'posess' a woman, when really...he's just trying to be complimentary, and may have said it the wrong way...but how is he to know what you do and don't like, until you tell him, and tell him why you don't like it...which you have now. That's just some food for thought

Andrews reaction was pretty normal I think. You basically said that he sexually harassed you...which I don't think is true. It may have been how you interpreted it, based on all the external definitions you have taken on, but I don't think this was a genuine case of it. I do think that you are hyper-alert for any sign of sexual harassment, as this is the internet, and your fears and anxiety are probably being triggered alot...but in AG's defense, what he said really was harmless, in my oppinion anyway.

I don't think he was claiming you...I think he was making a simple comment like "my precious" (with the Golem voice) which, now that I come to think about it, golem was pretty posessive about his precious...o.k, bad example.

I guess I can see why you think it was a 'claiming' comment that he made. The word 'My' does indicate that you are his belonging.

You are not his belonging, and maybe he could have dropped the word 'My'...which I'm pretty sure he will from now on. I'm quite sure poor AG is scarred for life over this one and will never use the word 'my' in front of a woman again

I think this is a great example of how perilous it can be to be in this world at this time, with everyone so ultra PC and sensitive to right speech, and there are alot of males and females who do abuse others this way. You just have to be careful that you know for certain that THIS person is actually abusing or harassing you. And I don't think AG is in this case.

I have not seen him say this to you at any other time...maybe once or twice I've seen him openly say that he would like to kiss you and that you are gorgeous...but you ARE and that's normal for any guy to want you. Just because YOU don't see yourself that way, doesn't mean that the rest of the world doesn't.

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

Fine Ruby but I can still have a problem with you accusing me of sexual harassment!

It makes you a victim in people's eyes and me a horrible ogre attacking you.

That's how they see it!

[roxyruby]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Actually AG, you don't really know how it makes you look in our eyes. Give us a bit more credit than that.

As you can see if you look around, there are different people here backing you up and seeing both sides. RR didn't call you a "sexual harasser" though...that's actually YOU over-reacting and making it more than it was, though I agree it could definately be construed as her being offensive towards you...there are two sides to this story and yours is equally as valid as hers is.
RR asked you to stop sexually harassing her...she didn't say the words 'you are a sexual harasser'. Can you see that you reacted emotionally in the same way as RR did? It's totally understandable that you did react this way by the way...anyone would have.

RR is entitled to feel how she feels, as are you. You are both taking each others words the wrong way! From an outside perspective, you may both want to consider this?

I can see that you didn't mean to cross any lines. That you were being playful. I interpreted "my beautiful...and my lady" in the medieval Lord and Lady sense...which is how I think you intended it to mean.

I agree that RR took it out of context and reacted emotionally to a harmless comment. That's my oppinion.

I'm not invalidating your experience here RR, but I think you may have brainwashed yourself a little bit to Wiki definitions and outside definitions without coming up with your own definitions and oppinions about it.

This is easy to do when you read alot of different books and webpages that portray something in one light. We are all susceptible to it...it's good to think for yourself though...which I know you do, to a certain extent, I just think that, in this case you have taken on these definitions without questioning them, and reacted to a little harmless comment with extreme sensitivity...
There's nothing wrong with that, but it can lead to situations like this, where a person gets accused of a serious thing, when they meant no harm at all. Peoples lives can get ruined this way, when they didn't really deserve it. Something to think about anyway.

I'm not saying that to invalidate you or abuse you...but sometimes females do over-react. I'm a woman, and I can vouch for it...we do over-react at times.

It makes it difficult to know when we are really over-reacting and when we are being invalidated when we are told this by someone.

I wonder how many of the people who compiled the Wiki definition, and all the other definitions of sexual harassment were female...and how many of them are radical feminists? Probably quite a few if not all of them.

It's good to take this into consideration when you are reading things written by strangers, as it can give you a good idea of their mentality and where they are coming from. Radical feminists are pretty notorious for jumping down the throats of any man who says anything remotely sounding like he is trying to 'claim' a woman or 'posess' a woman, when really...he's just trying to be complimentary, and may have said it the wrong way...but how is he to know what you do and don't like, until you tell him, and tell him why you don't like it...which you have now. That's just some food for thought

Andrews reaction was pretty normal I think. You basically said that he sexually harassed you...which I don't think is true. It may have been how you interpreted it, based on all the external definitions you have taken on, but I don't think this was a genuine case of it. I do think that you are hyper-alert for any sign of sexual harassment, as this is the internet, and your fears and anxiety are probably being triggered alot...but in AG's defense, what he said really was harmless, in my oppinion anyway.

I don't think he was claiming you...I think he was making a simple comment like "my precious" (with the Golem voice) which, now that I come to think about it, golem was pretty posessive about his precious...o.k, bad example.

I guess I can see why you think it was a 'claiming' comment that he made. The word 'My' does indicate that you are his belonging.

You are not his belonging, and maybe he could have dropped the word 'My'...which I'm pretty sure he will from now on. I'm quite sure poor AG is scarred for life over this one and will never use the word 'my' in front of a woman again

I think this is a great example of how perilous it can be to be in this world at this time, with everyone so ultra PC and sensitive to right speech, and there are alot of males and females who do abuse others this way. You just have to be careful that you know for certain that THIS person is actually abusing or harassing you. And I don't think AG is in this case.

I have not seen him say this to you at any other time...maybe once or twice I've seen him openly say that he would like to kiss you and that you are gorgeous...but you ARE and that's normal for any guy to want you. Just because YOU don't see yourself that way, doesn't mean that the rest of the world doesn't.

Thank you Elucidate. I think the lesson I learned here is to first ask "what was your intention with saying this to me?" and "what did you mean by that?" when I feel abused by someone before making further claims

Researching the definitions of abuse has been a very positive thing for me. How would I know something is abuse towards me if I've grown up my whole life receiving it..so it's just like normal behavior towards me?

Looking at the definition and varieties of emotional abuse especially allowed me to see I wasn't being treated properly, in fact they way they were treating me actually had names for it "Guilt tripping" "Denying" and many others etc.

I had stood up for myself before with my own definitions, saying "Talking to me like that makes me upset" which the person then responded with, what I now know as another tactic of emotional abuse.

So instead of believing their abusive tactics that I'm not important, fairly worthless, and a bad person, I could now know that they were doing something wrong to me, that there are even names for.

It's basically understanding human behavior more, and actual labels for the different ways we talk to each-other. Anyone including friends could do something emotionally or psychologically damaging to you in conversation, but if there is no proper name for it, and no wide-spread understanding, people might just be accepting it, unconsciously feeling lower in value and worth than they should, or depressed or angry without knowing why after being in the presence of, or talking to this person.

I've done it too, emotional manipulation or something, to my boyfriend. When I read more about emotional manipulation I found out I sometimes did this too, so was able to stop, knowing it is hurtful or damaging to others.

Why thank you Elucidate you are gorgeous too!

[elucidate]

Oh I'm glad you took that well...*hugs to you*

Yeah, I know what you mean, really. I've been the same for most of my life and read about these things around your age as well, so I do understand. You are learning to stand up for yourself in this world, and that's a really important thing for survival. I still haven't mastered it, but I'm getting better.

I hope you didn't feel like I was taking sides or picking on you...I really can see that you are doing your best to take back your sense of self and self-respect...and I applaud you for it...it's not easy at all, especially when you've recieved all this horrible treatment from those who are supposed to treat you the best out of anyone and you are supposed to be able to trust.

If you can see that this is something that has been passed down through generations of not just your family, but pretty much everyone's family, then it makes it easier to understand where it comes from and that they really don't know what damage they are doing...unless they do that is...some do and they keep doing it...but most don't, they are just unconscious and in denial.

It doesn't make it ok at all, but it makes it understandable.

You'll get your barings someday soon beautiful. I've just realised how much it feels like I am a big sister to you...I hope that's o.k with you?

It takes time for all of us.

Noone is born knowing how to deal with every situation perfectly...it's mostly trial and error. That's what's good about getting older, the improvement and refinement which comes with our experiences. You're just starting out, and I'm sure you will make more mistakes and learn from them...hopefully, since mistakes allow us to learn so much.

[roxyruby]

No I didn't think you were picking on me. I'm a very imperfect human being with only a fraction of the knowledge there is so it's good to receive others perspectives and sides of the story so I can see things more accurately

You can be my big sister haha. Pillow Fight?? Or...with your new circumstances..money fight? lol lol lol

Lol. I have two big sisters now, you, and Ssandra! Funnily enough she also said she felt like a big sister to me, I think in this very thread.

Must be a "sisterly" atmosphere in the air.

Thank you beautiful

[James81]

Woo hoo dilly!

There are gremlins in this thread. I can smell 'em.

*sneaks around like Elmer Fudd*

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by roxyruby

Lol. I have two big sisters now, you, and Ssandra! Funnily enough she also said she felt like a big sister to me, I think in this very thread.

Must be a "sisterly" atmosphere in the air.

Absolutely. You remind me so much of myself a few years ago that it simply isn't funny anymore

The bad thing about that is that I know how bad it can feel to be in that place at times

The good thing is that I know that you have the personal power to change anything and everything you want to!

[Lauxa]

Woah, from the top of this thread to the bottom it is like all the air being sucked out of the room ... swoosh!

When Roxy called Andrew "Gubb Gubb" and he responded by calling her "my beautiful" I got this warm tingly sensation in my tummy just observing all the loving playfulness. And then BAM! a button was pushed and a nuclear explosion went off that I don't think either Roxy or Andrew were expecting.

Funny how that can happen, kinda mirrors something that happened to me recently, but hopefully the air has cleared and boundaries have been established and the friendship hasn't been mortally wounded.

Love to you both.

[secrets0stolen]

Originally Posted by Lauxa

Woah, from the top of this thread to the bottom it is like all the air being sucked out of the room ... swoosh!

When Roxy called Andrew "Gubb Gubb" and he responded by calling her "my beautiful" I got this warm tingly sensation in my tummy just observing all the loving playfulness. And then BAM! a button was pushed and a nuclear explosion went off that I don't think either Roxy or Andrew were expecting.

Funny how that can happen, kinda mirrors something that happened to me recently, but hopefully the air has cleared and boundaries have been established and the friendship hasn't been mortally wounded.

Love to you both.

I second this sentiment.

[SatvikBeri]

Originally Posted by Piercetheveil

I would have mistaken that for foreplay.

Nice.

Originally Posted by Lucidism

LOL, dang man.

I would have laughed my ass off!

"Sorry ma'am, next time I'll slam it in yo' face!" Boomshakalaka!

Works better than "you hit like a girl!" :P

[elucidate]

Oh good.

Yes, it's funny just how much you remind me of me, and I always wanted a llittle sis, so now I got one

And yes, a money fight sounds fun...everyone can join in.

Originally Posted by roxyruby

No I didn't think you were picking on me. I'm a very imperfect human being with only a fraction of the knowledge there is so it's good to receive others perspectives and sides of the story so I can see things more accurately

You can be my big sister haha. Pillow Fight?? Or...with your new circumstances..money fight? lol lol lol

Lol. I have two big sisters now, you, and Ssandra! Funnily enough she also said she felt like a big sister to me, I think in this very thread.

Must be a "sisterly" atmosphere in the air.

Thank you beautiful

[Andrew Gubb]

You are not his belonging, and maybe he could have dropped the word 'My'...which I'm pretty sure he will from now on. I'm quite sure poor AG is scarred for life over this one and will never use the word 'my' in front of a woman again

No chance, I'm not letting something like this get in the way of my playfulness

Luci, the fact is that I think "sexual harrasser" and saying I was "sexually harrassing" was about the same thing. I think talking about the difference there is splitting hairs.

But yeah. Thanks.

[elucidate]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree there. Whilst saying ÿou sexually harassed me"is definately implying that the person is a "sexual harasser"in terms of labelling, if the person doesn't actually say the words "You are a sexual harasser", then, in my mind anyway, they haven't really called that person one specifically, just implied that the behaviour was of this nature.

To me, there is a difference, even though I can see where you are coming from. I would have been just as upset, if it had have been me, don't worry. People have to be real careful these days what they say, as it can ruin someones rep and life.

Glad to hear you haven't let it get to you Andrew, your playfulness is appreciated.

[Andrew Gubb]

Thanks Luci