Move to wilderness, anyone?

[TeroMiettunen.com]

I've come to realize that the universe is logically meaningless with almost 100% certainty, and thus the only thing that kept me going through normal life is gone. So now that I might just as well live happily instead of even vaguely normally, I find it too hard to enjoy life in the modern society, and the only option for me is to move into the wilderness with some other people. Obviously doing that alone would be just plain stupid, because humans need other humans around.

I've been thinking this through for a long time now and I've tried many life changes and now the only option left for me is the wilderness, however that is not an option if I'm alone, so I'm looking for people who would come with me to a deserted island or uninhabitated lands, where we can do what we will and the only thing we have to worry about is our survival (if that). Humans are after all meant to live in the wilderness. I'm not going to want anyone there who just wants to try it out. I have to ask for you to be serious about abandoning whatever life you currently have for good, but if you later on decide that you want to get out of that island or whatever we move to, feel free.

I'm going to post this in multiple forums and so I ask that if you're interested, e-mail me (teroAT teromiettunen com) because I might not be reading any replies here. This is just the initiative, I have some details planned out but since just about everything else is flexible and not just up for me to decide, I left those out. I'm looking to move there within 2008, hopefully in a few months even.

If I can't find enough people to move with me, I'm still going to try changing my life some other way for the better (although it is quite useless), and thus I still care about encoding my e-mail address because of e-mail harvesters. ^^

[Angela]

Hey there -- good luck with your endeavor.

I just want to remind you of what you already know. When you arrive at the wilderness, the universe will still be "logically meaningless." Only then you'll be out in the meaningless wilderness of the universe with a bunch of relative strangers. Not that that's a bad thing.

Maybe you are thinking that the meaning of this move will be "Survival"? -- or maybe a test of your manhood or humanhood? Or do you feel that there is some other inherent meaning built into a quest like the one you're planning?

p.s.... You declare that "the universe is logically meaningless with almost 100% certainty, and later in the same post you assert that "humans are after all meant to live in the wilderness." Ooops! Inherent universal meaning! D'oh! You'd better get that sorted out before taking your party in the wilderness -- it's the sort of thing that undermines credibility in a wilderness trek or cult leader! (well, actually, "what humans are meant to do" is meaning that you make; the good news is that all meaning is meaning that you make -- so best wishes in making meaning that works well for you.)

Again, best wishes, even though you probably won't read this forum!

[TeroMiettunen.com]

To be honest, I posted that "I might not look at replies" to avoid getting some quick idiotic replies but seeing a smart reply like yours makes me want to reply back to you, so here goes:

What I meant with the "humans meant to live in the wilderness" is that our evolutionairy status is still such, not that it is any more meaningful to live in the wilderness and the only people I want to join me are people who think they'll be more happy in the wilderness. I sure don't need to be the leader of this group. Whoever wants to join doesn't even need to have the same beliefs as me, all that matters is that he is willing to change his/her life like that.

Assuming that the universe is meaningless (which is a reasonable assumption) I'm just as worthless as a grain of salt, and living in the wilderness doesn't change that.

[Angela]

But "humans are meant to live in the wilderness" is meaning, evolutionary or otherwise. You contradict your own statement that "the universe is meaningless."

"I'm just as worthless as a grain of salt" is also meaning.

You can and do make meaning all the time. You'll do that in the wilderness just as you do in the city. Why not create some meaning for this adventure that is fun and inspiring (for yourself and for others), rather than as an escape from "normal" life?

Have you seen the movie, "My Dinner with Andre"? I think you might enjoy Andre's stories about getting away from normal life, creating meaning, and loving his life.

[TeroMiettunen.com]

I'm sure that you get my point, everything is meaningless, no need to be a smartass with your language skills. English isn't my primary language so I have to simplify my statements a bit, perhaps that shows, perhaps not.

Creating meaning is logically impossible, you can't just invent a logical meaning to the universe or even to yourself, it has to pre-exist and you can only discover it and thus that Andre movie doesn't sound too good.

If you want a better explanation why I think the way I do, look at the latest post at my blog

[Angela]

Originally Posted by TeroMiettunen.com

I'm sure that you get my point, everything is meaningless, no need to be a smartass with your language skills. English isn't my primary language so I have to simplify my statements a bit, perhaps that shows, perhaps not.

Creating meaning is logically impossible, you can't just invent a logical meaning to the universe or even to yourself, it has to pre-exist and you can only discover it and thus that Andre movie doesn't sound too good.

If you want a better explanation why I think the way I do, look at the latest post at my blog

There you go again with your making meaning: "You are a smartass with your language skills." and "you just can't invent a logical meaning, not even to yourself, it has to pre-exist." Don't you see that that is all meaning that your consciousness is making up? And you are stating it like it's objective fact. I love it!

[Eric Revelin]

Originally Posted by TeroMiettunen.com

I'm sure that you get my point, everything is meaningless, no need to be a smartass with your language skills. English isn't my primary language so I have to simplify my statements a bit, perhaps that shows, perhaps not.

Creating meaning is logically impossible, you can't just invent a logical meaning to the universe or even to yourself, it has to pre-exist and you can only discover it and thus that Andre movie doesn't sound too good.

If you want a better explanation why I think the way I do, look at the latest post at my blog

You can't have no meaning without meaning. Negative can't exist without positive. The presence of one implies, nay, requires the other. That's the way our logic works. These are all just concepts. Meaning is just a concept. Logic isn't a tool you can use to determine what's meaningful, logic is what you use to create coherency amongst a set of ideas or principles. Logically, nothing is meaningful. Nothing is meaningless either. Whichever conclusion you arrive at will depend on something other than logic, even if logic is a big factor in your choice.

Stated differently, logic is useless without imagination, and imagination is useless unless you're tapped into something within you that drives you to keep envisioning something new. Forget about meaning; that's something the human intellect isn't built to grasp on its own. ("The poet asks only to get his head into the heavens. It is the logician who seeks to get the heavens into his head. And it is his head that splites."-G.K. Chesterson) Your heart isn't just a worthless lump of meat in your chest that keeps you alive, it's the symbol of your core humanity. If you want a reason to live that's what you've gotta turn to.

[bubadutep75]

I am not sure why this thread went from an awesome idea to a movie rating but the thought of leaving the world as it is now to go back to the way we as humans have lived for thousands of years has been a dream of mine most of my life. My favorite book as a child was robinson crusoe, and as an adult if anything ever happened to my wife I would sell everthing and live like we originally did. If you mention this today people look at you like you are crazy, but there shallow minds don't realize that until the last few hundred years, that is how life was, my grandparents lived like that for crying out loud with no electricity, and if times were hard they packed up and found a better location with more resources. Not to mention, in most 3rd world countries it is still like this today. I am all for the idea of getting a small group and getting the hell out of here.

[Rockchick26]

I've often fantasized about doing this, usually on days when I am so sick of people all I can think about is being alone for miles with no living soul around. Not sure how long I would last being happy like that, but I sure do have that feeling a lot. But it only comes when I have moments of disgust and irritation with my fellow human beings. But there are also a lot of moments where I intensely long for a deep connection with someone,and over the internet isn't enough

My favorite tv show is Lost, and I often wonder how cool it would be to be thrown onto a deserted island with a big group of other people and be forced to create a new life there with them. You wonder if it would eventually turn into the way modern society is anyway, i mean if we all started out that way, we eventually evolved into this crazy existence, so maybe that would happen on this island too.

I want to check out those movies suggested up there. I'm very curious what would happen if someone were to live completely alone for an extended period of time. They would have to go insane though, or at the very least draw faces on stuff and start talking to them

I think the solution is moderation, the perfect life would be for everyone to have their own plot of land acres wide so they had solitude and privacy every day and then everyone could easily get to a well populated area whenever they get lonely. That's what I really want. But I agree with whoever said people look at you like you're crazy when you talk about wanting to be far away from everyone. I guess those are the people who are so "addicted" to having others around that they just think it's wrong to not need others as much as they do.

I dont really know where I'm going with this, just stating my thoughts!

[Aleksander Krstic]

You discusting beast how are you ever going to pull it off!

On another note though, have fun and good luck with your endeavor!

[ballhit2]

Read the "How To Drop Out" essay by Ran Prieur, with his updated full disclaimer.

[Andrew Brunelle]

I've read the How to Drop Out essay many times and it seems like something I could do. We need time alone and time with others. It helps to have friends and family if you need help or just need someone to converse with. It's hard to be alone all the time. But sometimes, being alone is wonderful. So going into the woods every now and then for a few days could be fun

[ToxicJay]

Hey Tero

i see its been a few years since your original post im just curious if you ever got to move to the wild
im planing to do the same thing but in northern ontario canada heading out spring of 2012
but then again if you can respond to this post i guess it never happend