To plan or not to plan?

[sranganayaki]

Originally Posted by MrBig

Sranganayaki,

Thank you so much for the link. It looks like the information I wanted to explore more. Hmm, as a student of the LoA that should not have come as a surprise – “Ask and it is given.”

Here is something more on origin of Thought:

Here are three quotations from Sri Aurobindo on the origin of thought. If you would like to read more on this subject, you might enjoy Satprem’s book entitled Sri Aurobindo or the Adventure of Consciousness.
Each man has his own personal consciousness entrenched in his body and gets into touch with his surroundings only through his body and senses and the mind using the senses. Yet all the time the universal forces are pouring into him without his knowing it. He is aware only of thoughts, feelings, etc., that rise to the surface and these he takes for his own. Really they come from outside in mind waves, vital waves, waves of feeling and sensation, etc., which take particular form in him and rise to the surface after they have got inside. But they do not get into his body at once. He carries about with him an environmental consciousness (called by the Theosophists the Aura) into which they first enter. If you can become conscious of this environmental self of yours, then you can catch the thought, passion, suggestion or force of illness and prevent it from entering into you. If things in you are thrown out, they often do not go altogether but take refuge in this environmental atmosphere and from there they try to get in again. Or they go to a distance outside but linger on the outskirts or even perhaps far off, waiting till they get an opportunity to attempt entrance. (Letters on Yoga), Page: 313
The difference between a vacant mind and a calm mind is this: that when the mind is vacant, there is no thought, no conception, no mental action of any kind, except an essential perception of things without the formed idea; but in the calm mind, it is the substance of the mental being that is still, so still that nothing disturbs it. If thoughts or activities come, they do not rise at all out of the mind, but they come from outside and cross the mind as a flight of birds crosses the sky in a windless air. It passes, Page 637 disturbs nothing, leaving no trace. Even if a thousand images or the most violent events pass across it, the calm stillness remains as if the very texture of the mind were a substance of eternal and indestructible peace. A mind that has achieved this calmness can begin to act, even intensely and powerfully, but it will keep its fundamental stillness—originating nothing from itself but receiving from Above and giving it a mental form without adding anything of its own, calmly, dispassionately, though with the joy of the Truth and the happy power and light of its passage. (Letters on Yoga), Page: 637
If the difficulty in meditation is that thoughts of all kinds come in, that is not due to hostile forces but to the ordinary nature of the human mind. All sadhaks have this difficulty and with many it lasts for a very long time. There are several ways of getting rid of it. One of them is to look at the thoughts and observe what is the nature of the human mind as they show it but not to give any sanction and to let them run down till they come to a standstill—this is a way recommended by Vivekananda in his Rajayoga. Another is to look at the thoughts as not one's own, to stand back as the witness Purusha and refuse the sanction—the thoughts are regarded as things coming from outside, from Prakriti, and they must be felt as if they were passers-by crossing the mind-space with whom one has no connection and in whom one takes no interest. In this way it usually happens that after a time the mind divides into two, a part which is the mental witness watching and perfectly undisturbed and quiet and a part which is the object of observation, the Prakriti part in which the thoughts cross or wander. Afterwards one can proceed to silence or quiet the Prakriti part also. There is a third, an active method by which one looks to see where the thoughts come from and finds they come not from oneself, but from outside the head as it were; if one can detect them coming, then, before they enter, they have to be thrown away altogether. This is perhaps the most difficult way and not all can do it, but if it can be done it is the shortest and most powerful road to silence. (Letters on Yoga), Page: 731

[sranganayaki]

Originally Posted by MrBig

It seems to be a philosophical question. What does it have to do with quantum physics? I’m not a scientists with a background relevant to quantum physics. My views on it would be just wild speculations, but here is the answer that seems to make sense.

To say that the world exists by consciousness does not necessarily mean that it exists by our individual mental consciousness. The statement “Consciousness is the creator of the universe” refers to a universal and transcendent consciousness of which the individual human surface consciousness is only a tiny expression. According to Sri Aurobindo and many others, the Absolute, Spirit, Being, Brahman or whatever it is you wish to call it manifests itself as universe by a process of converting infinite consciousness-force into finite energy-form of matter. When we sleep, we are not conscious of our bodies but the body is subconsciously aware, otherwise it could not carry on its functions. The Quantum Physicists may have detected the impact of human mental consciousness and measurement on matter, but that does not mean consciousness originates with us or that the interaction of matter and consciousness begins with human beings. It begins with the manifestation of consciousness as universe. Ours is only a minor expression of a cosmic process. You can read a detailed discussion of the process of creation by Consciousness at Creative Principle in Science - Human Science - a Wikia wiki

[MrBig]

Originally Posted by sranganayaki

The Quantum Physicists may have detected the impact of human mental consciousness and measurement on matter, but that does not mean consciousness originates with us or that the interaction of matter and consciousness begins with human beings.

I was responding to this

Originally Posted by Max Power:
Suppose I ask you the question, “If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?” With an objective belief structure, you might say yes, but you might also say no, depending on your views on quantum physics.

What does quantum physics have to do with it? It is just basic, school level physics.

[MrBig]

You don’t have to be in the forest or even near that tree to hear a sound. You can place a recording device near that tree, which will record the sound without your presence/observation.

[Max Power]

Originally Posted by MrBig

You don’t have to be in the forest or even near that tree to hear a sound. You can place a recording device near that tree, which will record the sound without your presence/observation.

When you get the recorder home and play it, you hear what you expect. If you expected to hear a tree falling down, then that is what you'll hear, but that doesn't mean that while you weren't there that a tree did fall down.

If we accept we can create anything, then that means we can create everything. The limitation is considering that we only create through our human mind and body, but we can realise our true power and reach out with it to create anything that seems to be outside the boundries of human body/mind if we accept that's how creation works.

Do we need to plan creation? Only if we think a plan is required. If we believe that plans are a requirement of creation, there we are going to need one, but if believe that a choice and validating thought creates simply and effectively, then we don't really need to plan.

Choose it, validate it and get out of the way.

Enjoy!
Max

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by MrBig

You don’t have to be in the forest or even near that tree to hear a sound. You can place a recording device near that tree, which will record the sound without your presence/observation.

What your recording device will record is vibrations and not sounds... however when you receive those vibrations "you" will make sounds out of it...

.

[MrBig]

Originally Posted by Max Power

When you get the recorder home and play it, you hear what you expect.

You can also put a video camera there, which will record the whole event without my presence. If a tree falls down, the camera will record it.

It does not matter what I expect to see or hear while watching the tape. If I see or hear anything different from the time I left the camera, it means something happened without my presence/observation.

[Max Power]

Originally Posted by MrBig

You can also put a video camera there, which will record the whole event without my presence. If a tree falls down, the camera will record it.

It does not matter what I expect to see or hear while watching the tape. If I see or hear anything different from the time I left the camera, it means something happened without my presence/observation.

How do you know that the whole perception is not created to validate your expectation? Of course it's totally unprovable either way, but it seems very odd to me that anything can exist outside my awareness, because if that's true, then anything can exist outside of my awareness and that makes for a very unstable reality for me.

Works for me

Max

[MrBig]

Originally Posted by Max Power

Of course it's totally unprovable either way

That depends on how you define proof.

but it seems very odd to me that anything can exist outside my awareness, because if that's true, then anything can exist outside of my awareness and that makes for a very unstable reality for me.

Why would it make reality instable?

[Max Power]

Originally Posted by MrBig

That depends on how you define proof.

I can prove it to myself, I can say "there's my proof, now I believe" but others will say that isn't proof, that's just me believing it's true. What is proof anyway? is it something that can't be proved wrong or right? How can you prove anything? Nothing can be proved either way, so while I believe it to be true, that doesn't prove it for someone else. So the real answer is, I can't prove it because I don't have to because I believe Ito be true.

Why would it make reality instable?

Again, I would believe that it would make it unstable, but it doesn't make it true (for you) only for me. If consciousness build a seemingly stable reality, then certain things can unstablize it and I don't think that's the point from a consciousness POV.

If I am consciousness and I knew I built this reality, then I wouldn't break the fundamental rules that govern it, that is not the point, I would maintain the reality and push the boundries of creation while keeping things stable, otherwise it would turn into a mess very quickly.

In the movie Bruce Almighty, God gives Bruce God's powers, what does Bruce do with them? He goes berserk and selfishly creates all sorts of drama for himself and others. Bruce creates from ego, selfish ego. See, that's the point, it's not about using all your god powers while in this experience, it's about knowing you have them, but carefully using them for the benefit of the expereince and every part of you (other people) in that experience.

Knowing you have unlimited creative power and knowing it's ok not to use them all of the power all of the time.

Max

[MrBig]

Originally Posted by Max Power

I can prove it to myself, I can say "there's my proof, now I believe" but others will say that isn't proof, that's just me believing it's true.

You don’t have to prove to anybody that you are the creator of the Universe, or gravity, or oceans, etc.

How can you prove anything? Nothing can be proved either way...

Obviously, nothing can be proven to a person who believes that proof does not exist and who also believes that he/she is the creator of the Universe.

In the movie Bruce Almighty...

Many things happen in the movies, that is why Hollywood spends big bucks on them. But hey, I obviously can’t prove that Bruce Almighty is not real.

[Max Power]

Originally Posted by MrBig

Many things happen in the movies, that is why Hollywood spends big bucks on them. But hey, I obviously can’t prove that Bruce Almighty is not real.

The movie is obviously just an example about how if you realised your true god powers what that would mean. If you gave most people god like powers I doubt very much that it would turn out well.

Realise that you have the power to create anything and then accept it's ok not to use them all 24/7 as that is not the point.

Max

[MrBig]

Originally Posted by Max Power

The movie is obviously just an example...

Obviously? Why would the movie be just an example? There is no way to prove that Bruce Almighty is not real, right?

In addition, according to SR, the movie was not actually created in Hollywood, in fact it was not created at all, it is simply an illusion that you (your ego, your avatar, what have you) have created to realize “your true god powers” and “what that would mean,” right?

[Max Power]

Originally Posted by MrBig

Obviously? Why would the movie be just an example? There is no way to prove that Bruce Almighty is not real, right?

In addition, according to SR, the movie was not actually created in Hollywood, in fact it was not created at all, it is simply an illusion that you (your ego, your avatar, what have you) have created to realize “your true god powers” and “what that would mean,” right?

We're a little of topic here, but to answer your statement, you don't create stuff to realize your god powers, you create stuff so your observation point, you physical observer can enjoy the output of creation and that in turn gives consciousness an experience.

There's really only three ways to view an existance.

1. Creation just happens somehow and you have no input.
2. Creation happens, you can create somthings by choice, but it's not all of your creation.
3. You create everything in your present moment awareness.

Pick one, live your life. We can place labels on it, like IM, LoA and SR, but it can really only work one of three ways.

Max

[MrBig]

Originally Posted by Max Power

you don't create stuff to realize your god powers, you create stuff so your observation point, you physical observer can enjoy the output of creation and that in turn gives consciousness an experience.

That’s cool, but who created the movie Bruce Almighty?

[Max Power]

Originally Posted by MrBig

That’s cool, but who created the movie Bruce Almighty?

Depends on your POV about your reality. I know the answer from my POV, but yours may be different.

Max