Law of Attraction, hmm... perception?

[Max Power]

Originally Posted by Cantando

For many years, I believed I was consciousness, and that God was all consciousness. But recently, I began to have my doubts. It didn't seem to quite explain enough for me.
I believe God is the great unknowable "I" and each of us is an individual, discrete, unique "I" which came from God (so, yes, I believe we are God's children).
The "I" exists outside of consciousness but it can 'infuse' consciousness, the mind, the world with its presence. "I" can be present in those things without actually being those things.
If you go deep into prayer or meditation, if you "pause" mind and consciousness, "freeze frame" it, and just remain quietly, expectantly, humbly and reverently in the silence, you may experience "the Presence". It is beyond words to express.

That's interesting because I cannot accept that there is a God above, outside and/or beyond. I see everything within my awareness as creation of consciousness/awareness. Minds/bodies, yours/mine are not conscious/consciousness/aware. It's challenging to find words to describe it, but I sense it when I look to the outside world and see it's all inside

Max Power
"9 out of 10 people prefer max power"

[torilink]

I agree MaxPower.

There is Consciousness, Conscious Awareness, then there is just physical/ego awareness. They are different - yet there seems to be a lot of lumping them all into the concept of "Consciousness". Sometimes words get in the way of ideas.....words can be so limiting.

Eternal Consciousness is ALL, it is everyone and everything. (God/Divine Creation/Father/Source Energy)

Conscious Awareness is my awakening to the non-physical awareness that I AM Consciousness encased in this physical reality of ME, I AM the creator of this experience. I am now aware "Consciousness" is my center of being. (Creative Imagination/I AM that I AM/Christ).

physical or ego awareness is simply my brain taking in data - emitting data - storing information collected from my senses, learning, perceiving, judging, and being aware of physical reality. I don't have to be "Conscious" to be aware.

just a note that I am not using consciousness in what would be the "normal" definition of these terms (subconscious/consciousness) - those are physical states of awareness but not how I'm intending use the word.

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by Max Power

That's interesting because I cannot accept that there is a God above, outside and/or beyond.

Agreed. He isn't anywhere. He just "is".
To give Him a label of "consciousness" is man's attempt to classify him, pigeon-hole him, so man can attempt to understand Him in a limited, human way.
He is beyond human understanding.
BTW, I wonder who first began to promote the concept of God as being consciousness, because, at the end of the day, that's all it is, a concept man has created.
Don't you think God may just be a bit more than that?

[Anagogy]

Originally Posted by Cantando

Agreed. He isn't anywhere. He just "is".
To give Him a label of "consciousness" is man's attempt to classify him, pigeon-hole him, so man can attempt to understand Him in a limited, human way.
He is beyond human understanding.
BTW, I wonder who first began to promote the concept of God as being consciousness, because, at the end of the day, that's all it is, a concept man has created.
Don't you think God may just be a bit more than that?

I could be wrong here, but I think max meant that he didn't believe god could exist beyond consciousness. Personally, I would have to agree, because in analyzing my own self, I find that I am consciousness. My awareness of my consciousness (in otherwords, self awareness) validates the fact that I exist. I require no proof that I exist, because I'm intrinsically aware that I do, by virtue of my consciousness. I think that is what Descartes meant when he said, "I think, therefore I am". It is one of the few things in this world I simply cannot doubt, because I simply know. But if I am consciousness, I can never know something that is outside of consciousness -- because consciousness is the realm of existence where this perception of "knowing" exists at. So if some god did exist outside of consciousness, he might as well not, because I will never know it.

Also, I feel that any definition of god is simply an attempt to understand it better. We are all humans trying to understand something infinite with our seemingly finite minds. I don't feel that giving what is referenced as "god" the label of "consciousness" limits it anymore than giving god the label of "beyond consciousness" does. And the idea that god is beyond consciousness is a concept too, ironically enough. So if god is more than "All That Is", I'm at a bit of a loss for what else that entails -- perhaps All That Is Not?

Perhaps a bit of explanation why you feel the "I" is not consciousness is in order?

[Max Power]

Originally Posted by Cantando

He is beyond human understanding.

There is no HE, There is no God, god is a creation of consciounsess to try and understand consciousness. God is a means of control, control over others, god is above you, god is watching, god is judging you on judgement day (yes I now it's spelt wrong) and that is what happens when you suffer fear and denial.

You place anything, everything outside of you, you place power and control outside of you and then wonder what the hell is going on If you want full responsibility then there is nothing outside of you, if you want to play the blame game when it suits you, then god is very handy.

This is just my opinion, it could be wrong, but I doubt it

There is no outside, everything is inside.

Enjoy!
Max Power
"I can show you the path, only you can walk it"

[DaveTyler]

Inside of God, yeah not inside of you, he/she/it is you, not the other wa around. Ego is what your circumstances made in you from birth, to believe your seperate and the only one... Lol ridiculous but cute.
Your talking like a guru that know the truth about enlightenment and all, but still u dont walk around in bliss, peace and unconditional love

But since you just claimed God status; tell me why you keep killing people man whatsup with that

[Max Power]

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

But since you just claimed God status; tell me why you keep killing people man whatsup with that

Dave, I'm not sure wether you can't read, can't interpret the english language and/or are the most unbright thing I ever created I've just stated that there is no god. What part of me saying there is no god don't you understand??

I'm not god, there is no god, I'm not god going around killing people, I repsond to your responses for sheer entertainment value, other than that you are a continuous loop of misunderstaning and pointless questioning.

On some level you have some value...........I will continue to search for that.

Enjoy!
Max Power
"I can show you the path, only you can walk it"

[DaveTyler]

Im not gonna argue anymore. Close minded people is no point in arguing with.
We got two different POV.I exist , im as real as you. Sorry man HAVEFUN with your matrix quote. Ridiculous
Since you created the universe. TELL me exactly how, and if you cant remember, tell me atleast how old my phsical body is in the time concept you gave humanity

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by Anagogy

IAlso, I feel that any definition of god is simply an attempt to understand it better. We are all humans trying to understand something infinite with our seemingly finite minds. I don't feel that giving what is referenced as "god" the label of "consciousness" limits it anymore than giving god the label of "beyond consciousness" does. And the idea that god is beyond consciousness is a concept too, ironically enough. So if god is more than "All That Is", I'm at a bit of a loss for what else that entails -- perhaps All That Is Not?

Perhaps a bit of explanation why you feel the "I" is not consciousness is in order?

OK, I'll try and lay out my stall as plainly as I can.

1) Intro
I understand exactly when people say "I am consciousness" or "All is consciousness", and I have believed this quite fervently myself until quite recently.
All I am saying here is, "Maybe it ain't necessarily so". I am just asking the question, pushing the envelope.
In recent years, this belief seems to have become the new orthodoxy, replacing the more traditional religious beliefs. In ten, twenty, thirty years time, terms like "consciousness" may be redundant, having been replaced with other terms/ models/alternatives.

2) Semantics.
We all have our own ideas of what consciousness is, but, for the sake of argument, let' s go with the generally accepted dictionary definition:
The state of being conscious, aware; awareness.
If it is then a state you experience, can you then be that state?
If you are hungry, are you hunger?
If you are happy, are you happiness?
If you are conscious, are you consciousness?

3) The sea of consciousness analogy.
This analogy has been used many times before to illustrate consciousness.
We are all in the sea of consciousness. The water is all around us and within us and we are connected by the water. But does that mean you are the water?
The "I" is the essential you (whether you perceive through the ego or not). I am asking, is the "I" dependent on consciousness. Can the "I" exist without consciousness? Can there be something more?
When I said "I have my consciousness and you have yours", I meant that we have our own, individual fields of perception and awareness.

4) Mind
We also have our own, individual minds - containers where we store our thoughts and memories. Generally, I don't know what's in your mind and you don't know what's in mine, until we reveal it and communicate it. I say generally, because there are gifted people who can "see" into minds and pick up others' thoughts and memories. Minds overlap, and there may well be minds within minds.

5) The Mind/Consciousness Paradigm
If you say you are consciousness, that seems to imply that you are what you perceive as you have to be conscious of something. If that is the case, everything you perceive is in the mind. This may lead to the conclusion that you are mind or that God is mind (Christian Science). Personally, I don't hold with that. For me the Mind/Consciousness Paradigm, ultimately, is an illusion. The true "I" may be immersed in it or infuse its presence into it, but is not it.

No one is willing to be led further than he can see.

[Max Power]

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

Im not gonna argue anymore. Close minded people is no point in arguing with.
We got two different POV.I exist , im as real as you. Sorry man HAVEFUN with your matrix quote. Ridiculous
Since you created the universe. TELL me exactly how, and if you cant remember, tell me atleast how old my phsical body is in the time concept you gave humanity

Dave, you just don't read people's responses do you.

Yes, you're real, yes I'm real, everything is real, I didn't create anything, consciousness creates everything. I (mind/body) am not consciousness, you (mind/body) are not consciousness. People don't create consciousness, consciousness creates people.

I'm not god, there is no god.

Enjoy!
Max Power
"Now do you believe it?" (Another Matrix quote, I know you like them Dave)

[DaveTyler]

Ok so again your saying God is consciousness remember the whole ego you is from the mind, the mind is not consciousness it cant ALTER consciousness with visualization or thoughts. You as a spirit is CONSCIOUS and aware but ur not the ocean. Ur a tiny tiny tiny little drop in it, your limited, If you want a cup of coffee, you have to act on it with your physical body. Cause thats what your limited to as a human. U can visualize a bag of money showing up on your door steps for years and it will never fucn happen if you dont do something physically for it to happen.
So basically. GOD IS ALL, "You" dont exist.
but is it just me or didnt we all learn this by age of 5 why confuse it with all these Matrix hollywood scifi style. Fact is: physical reality: physical laws. thoughts neeeeever leave your physical brain... Its as simple as that

I think you Overdosed on those red or bluepills (cant remember) and what about spiritual matters and kundalni etc. it cantbe explained by your mind. So it dont exist? Well I for one have experiences first hand so I know, im not limited to eyesight

[torilink]

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

Ok so again your saying God is consciousness remember the whole ego you is from the mind, the mind is not consciousness it cant ALTER consciousness with visualization or thoughts. You as a spirit is CONSCIOUS and aware but ur not the ocean.

we all define our understanding of source energy or God in our own way. Why do you feel compelled to have MAX define it in the same terms you do. It doesn't matter what we call it (God, Divine Energy, Imagination,Source Energy, I AM, Allthatis, or Consciousness). You are arguing for your personal definition which is an Ego hangup, that your way of defining it is correct and his is wrong.

Ur a tiny tiny tiny little drop in it, your limited, If you want a cup of coffee, you have to act on it with your physical body. Cause thats what your limited to as a human. U can visualize a bag of money showing up on your door steps for years and it will never fucn happen if you dont do something physically for it to happen.

We are all part of that great ocean of consciousness, it is within us all. We are the perverbial drop in the ocean, but we are all also that ocean. We are that and it is us, all power of that ocean is contained in each drop.

Effort is required for creation on the physical level. This is toil.
when we live physically (ego based reality) and only perceive with the physical senses we experience physical reality and miscreation - when we awaken and become "Conscious" of "God" in us - toil becomes unecessary.

On the creative level, it is not so. as the ocean moves as one, so does humanity and if I use my imagination and creative thought the entire ocean of humanity will move together to make it so. It begins with the desire > moves on to a decision > which becomes an imaginative act/visualization > which then the entire creation working as ONE brings about and manifests into form. If you believe you can imagine a bag of money and manifest it into form, then you can. If you do not believe - then you cannot.

So basically. GOD IS ALL, "You" dont exist.
but is it just me or didnt we all learn this by age of 5 why confuse it with all these Matrix hollywood scifi style. Fact is: physical reality: physical laws. thoughts neeeeever leave your physical brain... Its as simple as that

I question the belief that thoughts reside within the physical realm. I don't believe the physical brain could contain imagination. I consider the brain more of a database.

I think you Overdosed on those red or bluepills (cant remember) and what about spiritual matters and kundalni etc. it cantbe explained by your mind. So it dont exist? Well I for one have experiences first hand so I know, im not limited to eyesight

we all have our unique experiences and find TRUTH in our own way - it is impossible to find truth anywhere but inside yourself. Once found, you can offer your truth to others LOVINGLY - but we all have to find OUR OWN TRUTH in our own time and our own way.

[DaveTyler]

So you could visualize me dying and I would? U could just kill me by thinking of it? Lets say you have a nightmare in which you die(dreams is most powerful imagination) does it happen? No. Why? Cause if all your thoughts came true, lol, its just not like that.

[torilink]

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

So you could visualize me dying and I would? U could just kill me by thinking of it? Lets say you have a nightmare in which you die(dreams is most powerful imagination) does it happen? No. Why? Cause if all your thoughts came true, lol, its just not like that.

dream is not my most powerful imagination. Intentional imagining combined with belief is the most powerful.

I would never desire to cause your death - so thats a whacked thing for me to imagine.
I could imagine your happiness and well being, which I would desire to do.

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

thoughts neeeeever leave your physical brain... Its as simple as that.

Riggggghhhht.......
Thoughts never leave our physical brain ?!

Sorta like this right ?



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[Lychee]

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

thoughts neeeeever leave your physical brain... Its as simple as that

Thoughts do leave our physical brain. It interacts with what is unseen to produce physical results when it is warranted.

[vfrrick]

Man I would like to see someone kill this thread.

[Max Power]

Originally Posted by vfrrick

Man I would like to see someone kill this thread.

Now that's a strange thing to say. If you don't like it, why read it? There are hundreds/thousands of threads here, is it the fact that this thread has some seemingly pointless arguing to it? I don't understand your post?

Hmmm, interesting

Onward,

The LoA is the tool to use to interact with reality, to shape and mold it to your liking, through choice/belief and thought, but I'm starting to suspect that while steve says that every thought is an instruction, I'm starting to consider that it's the choice that instructs and the thoughts are observations of the primary choice.

Let's say you choose to have a certain amount of money and some thoughts will back it up as you think those thoughts, but the fundamental choice is the governing factor. It's like if you believe or choose something very strongly, almost no amount of thought can seemingly change it.

So while the LoA is a tool to use, I would consider a shift from thought being the primary instructor and choice being the default, where thoughts can back the choice up, but once the choice is made, then that's where the power is.

Just some thoughts about LoA

Enjoy!
Max Power
"You've already made the choice, you're here to understand it"
(Yes, another Matrix quote, I can't help myself!!! )

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by vfrrick

Man I would like to see someone kill this thread.

Personally I'm learning a helluva lot from the dialogues with Cantando, Dave and everyone else.

So hopefully nobody out there will pick up that twelve gauge and ...................

[dragonfly183]

This dave guy reminds me so much of my ex husband. So much so that I am reminded why I left him in the first place, ha ha.

[Anakiya]

Torilink said something that I just cannot get out of my mind. By the way, I really like this thread. Torilink said "We have to align our perception with the laws of reality to be most successful..." Can someone explain this to me? I think this is the link that I'm missing.

[Max Power]

Originally Posted by Anakiya

"We have to align our perception with the laws of reality to be most successful..."

To me that means, accept the rules, for they cannot be bent, broken or suspended. If that's right, it's wrong

Enjoy!
Max Power
"don't think, know"

[Lil Chris]

Originally Posted by Max Power

The LoA is the tool to use to interact with reality, to shape and mold it to your liking, through choice/belief and thought, but I'm starting to suspect that while steve says that every thought is an instruction, I'm starting to consider that it's the choice that instructs and the thoughts are observations of the primary choice.

Let's say you choose to have a certain amount of money and some thoughts will back it up as you think those thoughts, but the fundamental choice is the governing factor. It's like if you believe or choose something very strongly, almost no amount of thought can seemingly change it.

So while the LoA is a tool to use, I would consider a shift from thought being the primary instructor and choice being the default, where thoughts can back the choice up, but once the choice is made, then that's where the power is.

Max,
I've recently been thinking the same or similar thing (about making the choice)... would you like to start a new thread on this topic of "choice" to discuss further and expand on this concept

[Max Power]

Originally Posted by Lil Chris

Max,
I've recently been thinking the same or similar thing (about making the choice)... would you like to start a new thread on this topic of "choice" to discuss further and expand on this concept

All the ideas and beliefs in the world are useless unless they help us build a better reality. I find LoA, IM, thought and emotion, while all enjoyable are not creative. Creative power comes from conscious choice and by aligning ourselves there, we can become better creators of reality. If you want to start something I'll jump right in

[torilink]

Originally Posted by Max Power

To me that means, accept the rules, for they cannot be bent, broken or suspended. If that's right, it's wrong

Enjoy!
Max Power
"don't think, know"

that isn't what I mean.

see, it is all in how you define reality - I define reality as anything I choose/desire it to be. That is the true definition of "Reality" to me. So your perceptions and beliefs must align to that.

Instead of you seeing physically an objective "Reality" and then perceiving it according to your beliefs and emotions - you are choosing your reality, then creating it, and to create it you must first perceive it (visualize/imagine) it.

so if I want to have X$$ within the next 30 days, I stop perceiving my bank account as what my statement says, instead I perceive it as I desire it to be, because in changing my perception I am not RE-creating the past "Reality" nor perceiving the PAST, I am CREATING through decision and desire.

so, you must perceive the true reality - the one you desire.

[Max Power]

Originally Posted by torilink

I am CREATING through decision and desire.

I agree with the decision part. It's a choice for it to be or not to be, desire, emotion and thought are not required, they are just decorations to enjoy and mask the process.

[mimusisj]

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

So you could visualize me dying and I would? U could just kill me by thinking of it? Lets say you have a nightmare in which you die(dreams is most powerful imagination) does it happen? No. Why? Cause if all your thoughts came true, lol, its just not like that.

I'm pretty new to the whole LoA stuff and I am completely open to being corrected or proven wrong.... but what (I think, at least) you are missing is that you cannot change what's in someone else's cards if HE/SHE doesn't welcome it as a reality in his or her own life. Yes, in the grand scheme of things, we are all one.... But while here in the physical, there is always gonna be a sense (or maybe illusion would be a better way of putting it) of separation, even when physics proves otherwise, because the Ego human brain has problems comprehending it and it's not something we can see, yet. But that's just a tangent...lol.. not my point. Sorry... MOVING ON....

My point is, just because I want to marry so and so doesn't mean that person is in alignment with MY desire. I can attract someone who shares those same qualities.... but attracting other people in your life in any way has to follow along with THEIR creative path, too. If I visualized you dying but you had no attachment to the idea of it for yourself, then chances are low that your family members would be planning your funeral tomorrow. You cannot affect someone else's life unless that person on a physical (or sub, or unconscious level) has some sort of attachment to the idea as well.

So if you think someone will kill you and focus on it long enough and believe it so, well I would hire a bodyguard ..... that is, unless you think that bodyguard is the murderer. But if you expect a happy, safe life and surround yourself with those things that bring it into a reality for you, my visualizing your death alone won't give it much power. (oh and just so you know... i don't wish you dead.... and I am not planning on visualizing it anytime soon).... ANYcrap...

I was actually watching some show today on Hollywood's Most Horrifying Murders... John Lennon was #2 or 3 on the list and in an interview he was asked how he thought he would die.

He responded by saying something (to the effect of) thinking he would probably be "knocked off" by some crazy fan.

Food for thought.

**And I should say R.I.P. Mr. Lennon **

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by mimusisj

My point is, just because I want to marry so and so doesn't mean that person is in alignment with MY desire.

Unless.......there are multiple versions of that person, in relation to your subjective reality.

[mimusisj]

infinite.... i'm sorry, i don't know much about SR, could you explain?

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by mimusisj

infinite.... i'm sorry, i don't know much about SR, could you explain?

Reality is psychological.

Everything you've been taught is wrong.

Reality is psychological.
What's inside you, eventually you see on the "outside."