Do "bad" things really happen to "good" people?

[quiethumir]

I believe that there is no good or bad, but according to the LoA, if you're a "good" person, can negative things happen?

[wanzulfikri]

How do the LOA define 'good' actually? There are lots of 'good' definition out there.

[The One]

Everything that happens to you, whether good or bad is vital in making you who you are. You have to experience the bad to appreciate the good.

I believe that yes there is good and bad but there is also silver lining in the bad. Whenever something bad happens, step out for a second and look for the good in it. You will always find something

If you're a good person and you dont apply the LOA properly then yes bad things can and probably will happen. I cant really say for sure if your good with the LOA that bad things will never happen but i believe that it will be significantly less if applied properly

[ButterflyWoman]

The whole concept of "good" and "bad" and "negative" and "positive" and so forth is entirely contextual and based in perception. In fact, the concept of "things happening" and "people" is, as well.... So you could say it's more like "things happen". Or, "happen". Or "are perceived to happen"....

[cantankerous]

Originally Posted by quiethumir

I believe that there is no good or bad, but according to the LoA, if you're a "good" person, can negative things happen?

Yes of course. I am sure all those children raped and murdered by paedophiles were good, innocent souls and being raped and murdered is bad.

[JSB]

"Bad" things happen to "good" people all the time. The world is full of war and tyranny, poverty and suffering, bigotry and injustice. Of course, those aren't the only things in this world; there are many wonderful things as well, but to pretend it's all roses and unicorns is nonsense.

Originally Posted by quiethumir

I believe that there is no good or bad, but according to the LoA, if you're a "good" person, can negative things happen?

[positive power]

Bad things do indeed happen to good people. The only way I can get round this in my head is the idea of reincarnation. The idea that we choose our life, our families and that we have themes which we have committed to experience for growth and spiritual discovery. How this stands with manifesting and creating our own reality I can only guess . Perhaps we are have a blue print for life but within that theme we are experiencing we have choices and can use the energy to get closer to source.

[Balbrae]

Originally Posted by quiethumir

I believe that there is no good or bad, but according to the LoA, if you're a "good" person, can negative things happen?

Hi, QuietHumir:

I think the LoA does respond to good and bad, to the degree that the person holding belief in good and bad allows such judgments of good and bad to color their dominant mental impression. As well, a "good" person who consciously or unconsciously radiates thoughts of weakness or inferiority, will draw unto himself or herself an outcome of the same general vibration. Finally, "good" people can become distrustful of the world--even paranoid, such that they manifest a world to be distrusted or paranoid about. So, "yes," is my answer to your question. A thousand times, "yes" because I can think of a thousand examples, such as the ones I listed.

[ChrisGinsburg]

Originally Posted by quiethumir

I believe that there is no good or bad, but according to the LoA, if you're a "good" person, can negative things happen?

Do animals ponder this question? Was one zebra a good zebra and another a bad zebra? When the lion sunk its fangs into the good zebra, was this a miscarriage of justice or is the whole dilemma completely imagined?

Sidenote: I do realize the thread was about people. I don't actually see a difference.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by ChrisGinsburg

Do animals ponder this question? Was one zebra a good zebra and another a bad zebra? When the lion sunk its fangs into the good zebra, was this a miscarriage of justice or is the whole dilemma completely imagined?

Sidenote: I do realize the thread was about people. I don't actually see a difference.

Isn't the difference that the lion needs to eat to survive?

Pedophiles have desires they choose to fulfill. They don't NEED to molest a child to survive...they do it because they want to.

[reekah]

Good and bad with reference to people don't exist, they're undefinable.

Per LOA tenets, what we ponder on is what we attract in our lives.

[ChrisGinsburg]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Isn't the difference that the lion needs to eat to survive?

Pedophiles have desires they choose to fulfill. They don't NEED to molest a child to survive...they do it because they want to.

Both examples are just movements of life. Life is not distinguishing between good/bad, needs/wants. Hunger appears to the lion and so it hunts the zebra. It's not deciding to get hungry at 3pm. Similarly, the pedophile doesn't sit down on his couch one day and decide to take up molesting children as a hobby. The urge or the interest in molesting children arises spontaneously, usually from past conditioning. Life excludes nothing. No movement is out of place, nothing is opposing or separate from that movement, ever.

Good/bad are distinctions made within the mind to try to make sense of what's going on. In some contexts this can be useful but it is important to clearly see that it has been imagined and that life is not operating with a brownie point system or watching to see if the person has been good this year. When these distinctions are taken beyond their useful context and applied to everything the person experiences it is bound to cause suffering. The inevitable, 'why is this happening to me!? I've been volunteering at the homeless shelter every day and never say anything bad to anyone!' etc. or the justification to demonize others behavior and create separation wherever you go.

[Prinie]

Well, yes. Bad things happen to good people and good things happen to bad people. *nods* But that's because we don't have that kind of control over life, only ourselves. Whose to say where those events will take us in the future?

[localrobert]

I believe that society has, in the past, held a belief that bad things happen (more often) to good people than bad. I think we as a society would benefit by noticing this belief cropping up in our lives.

[reekah]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Isn't the difference that the lion needs to eat to survive?

Pedophiles have desires they choose to fulfill. They don't NEED to molest a child to survive...they do it because they want to.

Morality is anything one makes it. I think that what we deem moral is entirely subject to the individual.

[reekah]

Originally Posted by positive power

Bad things do indeed happen to good people. The only way I can get round this in my head is the idea of reincarnation. The idea that we choose our life, our families and that we have themes which we have committed to experience for growth and spiritual discovery. How this stands with manifesting and creating our own reality I can only guess . Perhaps we are have a blue print for life but within that theme we are experiencing we have choices and can use the energy to get closer to source.

but why do bad things need to happen to bad people? A sense of justice?

IMO, a healthy life approach is to accept things as they are, and things that cannot be altered. Some human beings simply are cruel, it is as is. Hitler or Stalin were as they were. It then is best to manage around such persons.

I also think that the Universe doesn't play favourites, it is impersonal. In that sense, bad things don't have to exclusively occur to bad people.

[MariconesUnited]

Originally Posted by positive power

Bad things do indeed happen to good people. The only way I can get round this in my head is the idea of reincarnation. The idea that we choose our life, our families and that we have themes which we have committed to experience for growth and spiritual discovery. How this stands with manifesting and creating our own reality I can only guess . Perhaps we are have a blue print for life but within that theme we are experiencing we have choices and can use the energy to get closer to source.

I've been where you are in my thinking. Today however, it is my belief that ideas of Hell and Heaven, of Karma etc. are all man-made concepts to somehow cope with nature's indifference towards our ideals of justice. We came up with the notion of justice as a result of our advanced intelligence and social nature. It's a reassuring notion as well. But it doesn't exist outside of the man-made concept that it is.

Bad things happen to good people and vice versa. I still think reincarnation is a possibility, but to believe it exists as a way to somehow dish out divine justice or something is fallacious imo.

And since this is in the intention-manifestation subforum, I'll state to how I think it all relates to the LOA...I think the LOA is a good goal-setting tool. It makes perfect sense to clarify what your intentions are, to visualize them, to meditate on them, to feel the positive vibes this or that dream gives you, to talk about your dreams and goals to people and to actively make efforts towards making that goal a reality. That would normally increase your chances. But as a metaphysical ''Law''? I'm still a skeptic to be honest. To me, believing in it in that way invariably leads to the same mental gymnastics involved with the other beliefs mentioned earlier, regarding finding explanations for why bad things happen to good people.

[Acting Like Godot]

"Good" ... "Bad" ... How vague. Let's try to flesh it out.

In relation to "things", "good" could mean pleasant, happy, fun, joyful, rewarding, enriching, memorable, peaceful, exciting, lucky, safe, healthy, success. "Bad" could mean painful, grief-inducing, frightening, hateful, loss, sad, traumatic, unpleasant, nerve-wracking, failure, the experience of being rejected, disliked, ostracized, ignored, unloved.

In relation to "people", "good" could mean kind, honest, helpful, brave, compassionate, loving, friendly, sincere, civic-minded, generous, responsible.
"Bad" could mean dishonest, violent, angry, selfish, mean, irresponsible, cowardly, malicious, cruel, unfriendly people.

By now, you may realize that there are multiple flavours to these words "good" and "bad".

[MariconesUnited]

So what's your answer to the question?

[waizen]

Originally Posted by MariconesUnited

So what's your answer to the question?

Only speaking for myself here, but my answer to the question is this:

LoA does not think in terms of 'good' or 'bad'. It is an impersonal thing that delivers as requested. Period.

Remember, if conscious existence is an illusion, then really, there is no bad or good. It just is.

Therefore, you can have people who act really nice and good who get all the crap in the world...

You can have people who act horribly and have all the beautiful things happen to them...

You can have people who act really nice and good who get every beautiful thing they ask for...

You can have terrible people who can have terrible things happen to them, as well...

You can have terrible people who can have great things happen for them, only to later change and then have terrible things happen (for instance, Muammar Gaddaffi).

You get the picture. It all still boils down on the intentions you put out.

As for the lion/zebra thing, you can also ask yourself, why did that particular zebra get eaten out of a whole herd? Because it was the slowest, sickest, oldest one? Okay, then why that particular slowest, sickest, oldest zebra out of X number of such zebras in that herd? Why that single particular one? Well, possibly, there was some kind of intention by that particular animal in that herd. Not good or bad...it was not personal, just an impersonal delivery of an intention. Maybe that particular animal was just more afraid of being eaten than the other such animals and therefore the universe decided it was the most efficient thing to do in that given situation, any number of things. Don't forget that you need to ask the same question for that one particular lion...why did that particular lion get the prize, as opposed to another one, etc.?

Bottom line: no good or bad as far as the universe is concerned. It's all the same. It's all impersonal. It just is.

As always, be careful what you wish for, 'cause you just might get it. No matter who you are.

[MariconesUnited]

Originally Posted by waizen

Only speaking for myself here, but my answer to the question is this:

LoA does not think in terms of 'good' or 'bad'. It is an impersonal thing that delivers as requested. Period.

Remember, if conscious existence is an illusion, then really, there is no bad or good. It just is.

Therefore, you can have people who act really nice and good who get all the crap in the world...

You can have people who act horribly and have all the beautiful things happen to them...

You can have people who act really nice and good who get every beautiful thing they ask for...

You can have terrible people who can have terrible things happen to them, as well...

You can have terrible people who can have great things happen for them, only to later change and then have terrible things happen (for instance, Muammar Gaddaffi).

You get the picture. It all still boils down on the intentions you put out.

As for the lion/zebra thing, you can also ask yourself, why did that particular zebra get eaten out of a whole herd? Because it was the slowest, sickest, oldest one? Okay, then why that particular slowest, sickest, oldest zebra out of X number of such zebras in that herd? Why that single particular one? Well, possibly, there was some kind of intention by that particular animal in that herd. Not good or bad...it was not personal, just an impersonal delivery of an intention. Maybe that particular animal was just more afraid of being eaten than the other such animals and therefore the universe decided it was the most efficient thing to do in that given situation, any number of things. Don't forget that you need to ask the same question for that one particular lion...why did that particular lion get the prize, as opposed to another one, etc.?

Bottom line: no good or bad as far as the universe is concerned. It's all the same. It's all impersonal. It just is.

As always, be careful what you wish for, 'cause you just might get it. No matter who you are.

Interesting. The highlighted part to me reads like yet another example of trying to make the Universe fit into the LOA model. We tend to need an explanation for everything. Even when there isn't any. Or maybe it really is just as simple as having an old, sick zebra. Maybe that particular was closest to the lion when it pounced. Maybe it tripped on something trying to get away. Occam's razor...The simplest explanation is the most probable.

[Frisky]

Originally Posted by quiethumir

I believe that there is no good or bad, but according to the LoA, if you're a "good" person, can negative things happen?

So called "good" people fear evil.

And because they fear it so much evil is frequently on their mind(s), which attracts evil, which in turn explains why bad things happen to good people

[reekah]

Originally Posted by MariconesUnited

So what's your answer to the question?

I agree with you, justice is a social construct.

[MariconesUnited]

Originally Posted by reekah

I agree with you, justice is a social construct.

Cool! I was asking ALG specifically but I appreciate everyone's inputs. Sorry for the lack of clarity.

[waizen]

Originally Posted by MariconesUnited

Interesting. The highlighted part to me reads like yet another example of trying to make the Universe fit into the LOA model. We tend to need an explanation for everything. Even when there isn't any. Or maybe it really is just as simple as having an old, sick zebra. Maybe that particular was closest to the lion when it pounced. Maybe it tripped on something trying to get away. Occam's razor...The simplest explanation is the most probable.

Nah... there's too much more going on here of importance to ignore.

First, I don't believe in coincidences. For any event, there are far more behind-the-scenes things going on than we all give credit for. The universe is, I believe, the master coordinator of events and every entity, human or not, experiences events with an infinite intelligence coordinating things. Once the intention has been placed, coordination is set into motion until the events take place (you can call this intelligence the Universe, God, or whatever you believe in...for my purposes, I'm going to call it the universe; the name is not important).

Don't underestimate the importance of why a particular entity is chosen to be in a circumstance, as opposed to another. In the zebra analogy I mentioned, it was probably not just another zebra...it was that zebra...that lion.

Why is it important?

Let's take a look at a woman who experiences a seemingly 'random' mugging/rape on the streets. That single event is not just a simple event. It takes place and starts a whole chain of events that lead to other chain of events, including whether she will end up marrying in the future or having a family. That chain of events eventually dictates whether another (particular) person in the future will ever be born. Etc., etc.

Now, that woman was, for some reason, chosen by the universe to be in that place and time, in the path of a certain particular individual (as opposed to another particular mugger), who, together, create a very specific chain of future events. The universe took a set of intentions (from all parties involved) and coordinated the paths to cross and experience the drama together.

Yes, from one point of view, you can say that chances are that there will be some woman and mugger meeting somewhere and playing out some drama somewhere in the world. But, looking deeper, in this case, it was that particular woman; that particular mugger/rapist.

How do you know that the Occam's razor thing is not just some way to conveniently dismiss the unexplainable?

Finally, I don't believe anyone needs to explain how LoA works...to make it fit into the model of LoA, as you say...in order to make it work. It just does. To me, it just makes for an interesting conversation.

[quiethumir]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

"Good" ... "Bad" ... How vague. Let's try to flesh it out.

In relation to "things", "good" could mean pleasant, happy, fun, joyful, rewarding, enriching, memorable, peaceful, exciting, lucky, safe, healthy, success. "Bad" could mean painful, grief-inducing, frightening, hateful, loss, sad, traumatic, unpleasant, nerve-wracking, failure, the experience of being rejected, disliked, ostracized, ignored, unloved.

In relation to "people", "good" could mean kind, honest, helpful, brave, compassionate, loving, friendly, sincere, civic-minded, generous, responsible.
"Bad" could mean dishonest, violent, angry, selfish, mean, irresponsible, cowardly, malicious, cruel, unfriendly people.

By now, you may realize that there are multiple flavours to these words "good" and "bad".

You seem condescending. I knew that ALG. Now can you please answer the question? thanks

[BillyTheAdult]

I've never met any good people.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by quiethumir

You seem condescending. I knew that ALG. Now can you please answer the question? thanks

My point is that the question is too vague.

"Do bad things happen to good people?"

Well, let's say that "bad" here means suffering great poverty. Let's say that "good" means being kind & honest.

Sure, why shouldn't such a "bad" thing occur to such a "good" person? A kind and honest person may nevertheless think thoughts about being poor, not earning enough etc etc, right? Therefore it must be possible for this "bad" thing to happen to such a "good person".

[ButterflyWoman]

And "good things" happen to "bad people" if we're going to go that route.

I still think the key is in seeing that "good" and "bad" and "things happening" and even "people" is all contextual.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by waizen

How do you know that the Occam's razor thing is not just some way to conveniently dismiss the unexplainable?

May I add that Occam's Razor is fundamentally flawed as a logical tool.

The problem with Occam's Razor is that it presumes:

(1) what you think you know is actually correct;
(2) what you know is more than what you don't know.
(3) the truth is likelier to be simple rather than complex.

All of these are presumptions.

Consider a young child, relying on his own sensory perceptions and not understanding the law of gravity and not having heard of Columbus etc. Thinking logically, and applying Occam's Razor, the child would conclude that the earth is flat.

In a way, we can all be susceptible to the risk of falling into the same trap as that young child.