RIP Jerry Hicks

[inri]

Originally Posted by Angela

Hey, Inri.... yesterday someone suggested that you and I are twins, and that we went to the same Wordsmith College. What a nice compliment that was!

Anyway, yes, although I can understand the allure of a sudden transition into the nonphysical (minimal pain), the game of transitioning out more gradually makes more sense to me. I think it made sense for Jerry as a gift to Esther, too, considering what she said in her email about how she appreciates the help releasing her resistance to croaking.

See you at the Wordsmith College reunion!

Welcome back Angela!....You were missed by many.

Damn....well I will definitely take that comparison as a very lovely compliment myself!...love that.

And you're so right...'a gift' is the perfect way to describe the gradual transition Jerry made.

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by Angela

Anyway, yes, although I can understand the allure of a sudden transition into the nonphysical (minimal pain), the game of transitioning out more gradually makes more sense to me. I think it made sense for Jerry as a gift to Esther, too, considering what she said in her email about how she appreciates the help releasing her resistance to croaking.

It's all still a little fishy. Abraham said repeatedly it would be very hard to find another human being that is that aligned with physical death like Esther is.

It's full of contradictions, like the teaching itself.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by inri

Welcome back Angela!....You were missed by many.

Damn....well I will definitely take that comparison as a very lovely compliment myself!...love that.

And you're so right...'a gift' is the perfect way to describe the gradual transition Jerry made.

Thanks, my sweet!

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Reefs

It's all still a little fishy. Abraham said repeatedly it would be very hard to find another human being that is that aligned with physical death like Esther is.

It's full of contradictions, like the teaching itself.

Reefs, I haven't seen or heard anything in what Abraham or Esther or Jerry have said or written that backs up the things you've asserted in this thread, like that they were terrified of sickness or that Esther's worst nightmare was that Jerry would die and leave her alone (I searched yesterday because your comment left me wondering, and found nothing that correlates with that), nor anything about it being very hard to find another human being that is aligned with physical death like Esther is.

Can you point to any of these contradictions, specifically?

[VinceG]

OK, I just looked up some basic facts about Jerry and Esther and Abraham, and a whole bunch of things make sense, now that I realize that Abraham was a channeled entity, rather than an actual person.

So I'm going to lay out some of the basics of channeling. First off, our own words and language is so inferior to the sorts of communication non-physical entities have with each other that it's not even close to speaking another language.

So, when channeling, the channeler uses his/her own brain as a translation tool. What's communicated gets filtered through the concepts and beliefs and thought processes of the channeler. It's a spiritual version of the telephone game. Meaning is inevitably lost, a great deal of it, actually. In fact, probably 90% of the meaning is lost, simply because the channeler cannot understand what is being channeled.

This translation process is subconscious, completely transparent to the channeler. All the channeler experiences is voices. A channeler with a very high degree of spiritual development will experience no so much voices as actual thoughts, which move much faster than speech and can convey a lot more information.

A channeler, looking for interesting things to write, is naturally and subconsciously going to focus on so-called magical information. It's hard to sell books with very basic spiritual knowledge, even though that knowledge is much more important than the magical stuff, which won't work without a lot of application of the basics.

The end result of all this is that the spiritual usefulness of teachings laid out through channeling is only going to be marginally better than if the channeler had simply made up the entire exchange out of whole cloth. New ideas that didn't exist in the channeler's mind before can be described, but those new ideas are subject to the degree of spiritual development of the channeler.

This is why, given the choice between channeling and one's natural spiritual progression using self-inquiry, the savvy spiritualist with choose the latter every time. Channeling is something serious aspirants will play with but eventually discard, as it doesn't even offer much in the way of personal growth. Other beings will talk to you, as long as you want them to, simply because it's better than nothing, but as long as you're focused on this sort of telephone game, trying to operate based on incomplete information that your own mind has filtered out, you might as well be running in circles.

[jota]

Maybe he just dont believe , peoples that like Abraham are really confuse in the Abe forum...wanna see what will be the answers when Esther appear again channeling...

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by Reefs

Based on the hearsay I know, it would surprise me if he didn't. That he immediately went for chemotherapy is just one indicator.

Interesting point.

According to the Hicks/Abraham teachings, you create your own reality through your thoughts; what you want is what you get. So, Jerry must have wanted his illness (at some level), or at least, desired a physical separation from Esther, and then manifested it. That is basic LoA (as marketed by them).

However, if he was accepting of his illness, then why did he elect to have chemo?
Of course, we don't know what was going on in their minds, but their teachings speak for themselves: your reality is a result of what you think.

Jerry was an ordinary guy. He got what he wanted in life: enough money to buy that giant, mobile home, coach thing he used to drive round in. It was his pride and joy.

He was a an average salesman who struck lucky and saw a gap in the market: Amway Stain Removers, LoA in a Book, what's the difference? If it sells, it sells.

Maybe, he just got old and tired. Maybe, he got fed up with having such a wise, articulate, discarnate entity dropping in every night when he wanted a quiet night in with Esther.

As Princess Diana said: There were three of us in this marriage, so it was a bit crowded.

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by VinceG

OK, I just looked up some basic facts about Jerry and Esther and Abraham, and a whole bunch of things make sense, now that I realize that Abraham was a channeled entity, rather than an actual person.

So I'm going to lay out some of the basics of channeling. First off, our own words and language is so inferior to the sorts of communication non-physical entities have with each other that it's not even close to speaking another language.

So, when channeling, the channeler uses his/her own brain as a translation tool. What's communicated gets filtered through the concepts and beliefs and thought processes of the channeler. It's a spiritual version of the telephone game. Meaning is inevitably lost, a great deal of it, actually. In fact, probably 90% of the meaning is lost, simply because the channeler cannot understand what is being channeled.

This translation process is subconscious, completely transparent to the channeler. All the channeler experiences is voices. A channeler with a very high degree of spiritual development will experience no so much voices as actual thoughts, which move much faster than speech and can convey a lot more information.

A channeler, looking for interesting things to write, is naturally and subconsciously going to focus on so-called magical information. It's hard to sell books with very basic spiritual knowledge, even though that knowledge is much more important than the magical stuff, which won't work without a lot of application of the basics.

The end result of all this is that the spiritual usefulness of teachings laid out through channeling is only going to be marginally better than if the channeler had simply made up the entire exchange out of whole cloth. New ideas that didn't exist in the channeler's mind before can be described, but those new ideas are subject to the degree of spiritual development of the channeler.

This is why, given the choice between channeling and one's natural spiritual progression using self-inquiry, the savvy spiritualist with choose the latter every time. Channeling is something serious aspirants will play with but eventually discard, as it doesn't even offer much in the way of personal growth. Other beings will talk to you, as long as you want them to, simply because it's better than nothing, but as long as you're focused on this sort of telephone game, trying to operate based on incomplete information that your own mind has filtered out, you might as well be running in circles.

I like this post.

Some people have unrealistic expectations about what a channeller can do. Other people have unrealistic demands of a channeller to be able to believe in them.

I remember watching a couple of videos where someone asked Abraham through Esther hicks about the ethics of eating meat. I remember Esther appearing distinctly nervous and the answers kind of jumping around the question that was actually asked. But a nonphysical being doesn't get nervous, does it

Bottom line - channelling is a skill, and not all of the information gets through. Probably less gets through than doesn't.

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

I remember Esther appearing distinctly nervous and the answers kind of jumping around the question that was actually asked. But a nonphysical being doesn't get nervous, does it

No, you wouldn't think so, but give him credit, Abraham was a lot less nervous when giving vital information (directly from Source) on how to lose weight. It sells a lot more copy:

Think and Get Slim - Abraham on Natural Weight Loss
Only $29.95

Summary:

In workshops held between 2006 & 2008, Abraham responded numerous times to questions about losing weight. This presentation was compiled from ten of those workshops, and constitutes the most effective guide to natural weight loss ever created. Now you can learn, directly from Source, how to guide your thoughts to take advantage of the awesome leverage provided by the Law of Attraction.

Extracted from:

Abraham-Hicks Publications: Think and Get Slim - Abraham on Natural Weight Loss

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, I think it's jolly nice of Source to come down to our physical level and take time out to give us handy, bite-sized hints on how to stop stuffing our faces with sugar and lard.

What next - The Abraham Cook Book - direct from Source. How to guide your thoughts using LoA to make the perfect gravy or sauce (geddit?).

[moonrambler]

Originally Posted by Cantando

what you want is what you get. So, Jerry must have wanted his illness (at some level), or at least, desired a physical separation from Esther, and then manifested it. That is basic LoA (as marketed by them).

their teachings speak for themselves: your reality is a result of what you think.

These are two different concepts though.

[arpee]

The history of the teachers are unimportant only the information is important. Sure, someone can be manipulative, but if you use the methods and they don't work, common sense says move on. People fall for cults when they don't listen to their inner guidance.


Someone mentioned the fact that if Jerry actually believed in this stuff why would he go to the hospital? That is so true, I didn't think of that.

I really do believe that Esther believes that she is channeling, and maybe she is to some level, as Vince G mentioned, if she is, it is getting filtered through her brain lot...

Abraham said that to everyone's questions they only have one answer "Get Happy!", and yet people keep coming back for more and more...

I think people are addicted or insecure about their inner abilities. If it were that simple and you actually believed it, why keep paying hundreds of dollars on cruises in hopes to get your question answered?

I remember one time, I don't remember when, Abraham said something like

"If you could just live life and when you get thrown out of the vortex [unhappy] you just go work to get back in [and be happy], everything would be fine... then you won't have any reason to be HERE, but that would be a good thing"

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by Angela

Reefs, I haven't seen or heard anything in what Abraham or Esther or Jerry have said or written that backs up the things you've asserted in this thread, like that they were terrified of sickness or that Esther's worst nightmare was that Jerry would die and leave her alone (I searched yesterday because your comment left me wondering, and found nothing that correlates with that), nor anything about it being very hard to find another human being that is aligned with physical death like Esther is.

Can you point to any of these contradictions, specifically?

You won't find that via google. The Abraham dialogs are not in a public database. It's on some recording somewhere. Hard to dig up again. But I'm not making this up. If I should stumble across one of these details again, I'll let you know.

In the meantime you can look around here, it's more likely that you will find something related there: Abraham-Hicks Discussion

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by Angela

Can you point to any of these contradictions, specifically?

The biggest contradiction came with the vortex concept. One the one hand they say that you cannot force yourself into the vortex, you have to wait until it sucks you in. On the other hand they say that the only work for you to do is to get into the vortex.

And there is another flaw with LOA in general. LOA works only in retrospect. LOA might be able to 'predict' what will happen, but it can never predict when it will happen and therefore can't say if it will happen at all. It can only say that it is probable.

[cacheborn]

Originally Posted by Reefs

Well, that whole discussion is turning more and more into gossip with every post. It's all based on hearsay. I don't know Jerry, I don't know Esther, I don't know Abraham. I don't know what happens behind the scenes. This quote was from their blog. So it's a PR thing, maybe even a face saving thing.

Your original statements are based on hearsay.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Reefs

The biggest contradiction came with the vortex concept. One the one hand they say that you cannot force yourself into the vortex, you have to wait until it sucks you in. On the other hand they say that the only work for you to do is to get into the vortex.

That's a contradiction? Sorry, I can't see it.

Isn't it just like relaxation? If you're stressed, you need to relax. But you cannot force yourself into relaxation, you have to wait until you really do feel relaxed. On the other hand, the only work for you to do is relax.

And there is another flaw with LOA in general. LOA works only in retrospect. LOA might be able to 'predict' what will happen, but it can never predict when it will happen and therefore can't say if it will happen at all. It can only say that it is probable.

Sounds a bit like science. Science says that if you smoke a lot, eat badly and don't exercise, you ought to get cancer or heart disease or something else nasty. But science can't predict when it will happen and therefore can't say if it will happen at all. It can only say that it is probable.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by arpee

Abraham said that to everyone's questions they only have one answer "Get Happy!", and yet people keep coming back for more and more...

I think people are addicted or insecure about their inner abilities. If it were that simple and you actually believed it, why keep paying hundreds of dollars on cruises in hopes to get your question answered?

I'm sure it's not the same people all the time on all the different cruises.

I read three Abraham books, that is all, I gained some value and then I moved on. Others may read one, or five, or listen to 20 Abraham CDs, or none, and then they move on.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Cantando

According to the Hicks/Abraham teachings, you create your own reality through your thoughts; what you want is what you get.

No, no, nooooooooooo.

How can you still be getting it wrong after all this time.

What you think is what you get. Not "what you want is what you get".

[Beingist]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

No, no, nooooooooooo.

How can you still be getting it wrong after all this time.

What you think is what you get. Not "what you want is what you get".

ALG to the rescue!

(Sorry, ALG, I just couldn't resist )

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

That's a contradiction? Sorry, I can't see it.

Isn't it just like relaxation? If you're stressed, you need to relax. But you cannot force yourself into relaxation, you have to wait until you really do feel relaxed. On the other hand, the only work for you to do is relax.

You can't do anything about it. It just happens. Which means you are not in control, which means you are not a deliberate creator.

Sounds a bit like science. Science says that if you smoke a lot, eat badly and don't exercise, you ought to get cancer or heart disease or something else nasty. But science can't predict when it will happen and therefore can't say if it will happen at all. It can only say that it is probable.

Well, they didn't call their teachings "the science of deliberate creation" for nothing.

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by cacheborn

Your original statements are based on hearsay.

That's what I said.

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by VinceG

OK, I just looked up some basic facts about Jerry and Esther and Abraham, and a whole bunch of things make sense, now that I realize that Abraham was a channeled entity, rather than an actual person.

So I'm going to lay out some of the basics of channeling. First off, our own words and language is so inferior to the sorts of communication non-physical entities have with each other that it's not even close to speaking another language.

So, when channeling, the channeler uses his/her own brain as a translation tool. What's communicated gets filtered through the concepts and beliefs and thought processes of the channeler. It's a spiritual version of the telephone game. Meaning is inevitably lost, a great deal of it, actually. In fact, probably 90% of the meaning is lost, simply because the channeler cannot understand what is being channeled.

This translation process is subconscious, completely transparent to the channeler. All the channeler experiences is voices. A channeler with a very high degree of spiritual development will experience no so much voices as actual thoughts, which move much faster than speech and can convey a lot more information.

A channeler, looking for interesting things to write, is naturally and subconsciously going to focus on so-called magical information. It's hard to sell books with very basic spiritual knowledge, even though that knowledge is much more important than the magical stuff, which won't work without a lot of application of the basics.

The end result of all this is that the spiritual usefulness of teachings laid out through channeling is only going to be marginally better than if the channeler had simply made up the entire exchange out of whole cloth. New ideas that didn't exist in the channeler's mind before can be described, but those new ideas are subject to the degree of spiritual development of the channeler.

This is why, given the choice between channeling and one's natural spiritual progression using self-inquiry, the savvy spiritualist with choose the latter every time. Channeling is something serious aspirants will play with but eventually discard, as it doesn't even offer much in the way of personal growth. Other beings will talk to you, as long as you want them to, simply because it's better than nothing, but as long as you're focused on this sort of telephone game, trying to operate based on incomplete information that your own mind has filtered out, you might as well be running in circles.

You bring up some good points. In the case of the Abraham-Hicks teachings it seems that the teachings evolve over time, but what really happens is that the channeler distorts the teachings less and less.

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

No, no, nooooooooooo.

How can you still be getting it wrong after all this time.

What you think is what you get. Not "what you want is what you get".

OK, let me expand on that second sentence.

How about :

According to the Hicks/Abraham teachings, you create your own reality through your thoughts and whatever you desire, you can manifest by practising LoA exercises.

If you don't agree, just flick through Ask And It is Given (one of the seminal LoA works by Hicks) and see how many times the word desire pops up. Desire is also a simile for want, btw.

Whilst there is much engaging material in that book relating to staying positive and enthusiastic, visualizing your goals, etc, there is a running theme throughout which goes:

You can have your cake and eat it - in this life, like NOW. That's the great selling point of the book which appeals to the spiritually challenged: if you want something, you don't have to work for it, worry about it, or save up for it, or wait for it.

No matter what it is you want, just buy the book, follow the simple exercises, and it will automatically manifest in reality - that's law.

[arpee]

I agree, her message is more natural than before. In the past she had that fake Seth voice... I'm happy that she gained some confidence...

I'm not sure if Jerry believed 100%, especially since he was in Amway, but I know that Esther is sincere.

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by arpee

I agree, her message is more natural than before. In the past she had that fake Seth voice... I'm happy that she gained some confidence...

I'm not sure if Jerry believed 100%, especially since he was in Amway, but I know that Esther is sincere.

That "fake Seth voice" can be seen differently. Abraham say it's a form of resistance. And that resistance went away over the years. That Seth always had that kind of accent just shows that there was always a certain level of resistance present within the channel. If you compare the two teachings, that will be even more obvious.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Cantando

How about :

According to the Hicks/Abraham teachings, you create your own reality through your thoughts and whatever you desire, you can manifest by practising LoA exercises.

This is like saying - "Whatever kind of body or physical fitness you want, you can get it by doing certain physical exercises."

Doesn't quite work like that. I'm sure I'll die or at least tear a muscle or two, if tomorrow I decide to do exercises like a Navy Seal or an Olympic athlete.

I think that the theory holds - if I could train like Usain Bolt, then I could approximately run as fast as Usain Bolt. If I could train like Mariusz Pudzianowski, then I could be approximately be as strong as him.


Mariusz ....

However, I cannot train like Usain. I cannot train like Mariusz. Reading a book about how they train may give me the KNOWLEDGE of how they train, but doesn't mean that I can train like that.

Similarly, reading a book about Abraham's LOA methods may give me the KNOWLEDGE of what those LOA methods are, but doesn't mean that I can successfully apply those methods with consistency or regularity.

If you don't agree, just flick through Ask And It is Given (one of the seminal LoA works by Hicks) and see how many times the word desire pops up. Desire is also a simile for want, btw.

Desire is a different part of the story.

The important part of desire in the LOA framework (according to me at least) is that what you strongly desire is often what you naturally think a lot about, and thinking a lot about something can be very helpful for manifesting it.

On the other hand, many people also think a lot about what they DON'T desire - eg they think a lot about what they fear (the usual word is "worry"). or they just think a lot about irrelevant, meaningless, random things which is why they get irrelevant, meaningless, random things showing up in their lives.

Desire, in fact, is not a necessary ingredient in the LOA process. It's helpful in the IM process, but even there, it is not strictly necessary. For fun, one can manifest blue feathers, without having a particularly strong desire for blie feathers. (And really, who the heck wants blue feathers anyway? But it is a common LOA experiement).

Whilst there is much engaging material in that book relating to staying positive and enthusiastic, visualizing your goals, etc, there is a running theme throughout which goes:

You can have your cake and eat it - in this life, like NOW. That's the great selling point of the book which appeals to the spiritually challenged: if you want something, you don't have to work for it, worry about it, or save up for it, or wait for it.

No matter what it is you want, just buy the book, follow the simple exercises, and it will automatically manifest in reality - that's law.

That's the theory. You CAN be as strong and fit as Mariusz too! All you have to do is buy his book, follow his simple exercises, carry an ox or pull a bus or lift heavy slabs of cement and run with them every morning, and your strength and fitness will automatically manifest.



Assuming you don't break your back or get a heart attack, of course.

If you can't train the way Usain and Mariusz do, well, you can aim to do much smaller, scaled-down versions of their training. You'll get fast and strong and fit too ...... just not so fast, not so strong and not so fit.

Same thing with your manifestations.

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

This is like saying - "Whatever kind of body or physical fitness you want, you can get it by doing certain physical exercises."
Doesn't quite work like that. I'm sure I'll die or at least tear a muscle or two, if tomorrow I decide to do exercises like a Navy Seal or an Olympic athlete...

Uh Oh, the ALG Magic Show is back in town, complete with circus, muscle freaks to astound and amaze us!

So, what should Mr Skinny Guy do?

a) Buy a book on LoA: You can manifest your desire now by doing these mental exercises, or

b) Buy a book by Mr Universe: You can have a body like mine if you follow these physical exercises and do this diet for the next 20 years.

With either choice, he is buying into a concept. He's not really going to ever look like Mr Universe, now, is he? He's just going to squander a small fortune in trying to put on a couple of pounds of muscle.

LoA uses concepts to tackle concepts, a bit like like you using white magic to conquer black magic.

And what do concepts do? Make prizes?

No, they keep you squarely and firmly rooted in samsara/duality!

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by Cantando

Uh Oh, the ALG Magic Show is back in town, complete with circus, muscle freaks to astound and amaze us!

So, what should Mr Skinny Guy do?

a) Buy a book on LoA: You can manifest your desire now by doing these mental exercises, or

b) Buy a book by Mr Universe: You can have a body like mine if you follow these physical exercises and do this diet for the next 20 years.

With either choice, he is buying into a concept. He's not really going to ever look like Mr Universe, now, is he? He's just going to squander a small fortune in trying to put on a couple of pounds of muscle.

LoA uses concepts to tackle concepts, a bit like like you using white magic to conquer black magic.

And what do concepts do? Make prizes?

No, they keep you squarely and firmly rooted in samsara/duality!

Well, you can always take some funny pills and watch your muscles and tongue grow an inch per day...

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by Reefs

Well, you can always take some funny pills and watch your muscles and tongue grow an inch per day...

Ah, yes, I forgot that one: Option 3: Steroids - the fastest and most effective method (if you can stand the twitching and roid rage)! Who needs LoA!

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by Cantando

Ah, yes, I forgot that one: Option 3: Steroids - the fastest and most effective method (if you can stand the twitching and roid rage)! Who needs LoA!

Well, would steroids also work even if you don't believe in them?

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by Reefs

Well, would steroids also work even if you don't believe in them?

I'll put some in the dog's bowl and get back to you!