If beliefs create reality...

[quiethumir]

then why do those who believed they could fly, when they jump off the building, hit the ground?

[OptimistPrime]

The same reason babies don't float away even though they have no belief in gravity, I suppose.

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by OptimistPrime

The same reason babies don't float away even though they have no belief in gravity, I suppose.

Do babies have a belief in a body?

[nothuman]

Our personal beliefs affect our individual reality....however theres more people investing in gravity

[OptimistPrime]

Originally Posted by Reefs

Do babies have a belief in a body?

I dunno, my earliest memories are from well after the point where I was no longer a baby. Does a dog have a Buddha nature?

[Zenn]

You don't have to disbelieve in gravity to believe that you can fly. People fly with aids while believing in gravity. Birds and insects fly and experience, believe in, and count on gravity. However, most people do not believe human can fly like birds, i.e. on their own volition with their physical facilities.

If you can fly, you need to believe in gravity to land. You also likely imagine flying in the context of having Earth gravity rather than floating in space.

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by OptimistPrime

I dunno, my earliest memories are from well after the point where I was no longer a baby.

I would say that babies are just a body that is purely functioning only. No conceptualizing, therefore no memory retrievable later.

Does a dog have a Buddha nature?

What do you mean by Buddha nature?

[OptimistPrime]

Originally Posted by Reefs

I would say that babies are just a body that is purely functioning only. No conceptualizing, therefore no memory retrievable later.

Interesting thought!

Originally Posted by Reefs

What do you mean by Buddha nature?

LOL, sorry, that was just a joke. "Do babies have a belief in a body?" sounded like a koan to me. Regarding Mu

[waizen]

As a similar question, maybe appropriate here or maybe belonging to another thread all its own:

Ever hear of anyone who actually walked on water? Is that physically possible? Barefoot, that is...no floating aids whatsoever.

If so, then why not fly? Who says it hasn't been done but not advertised? There are a lot of individuals who have done incredible things but kept them to themselves.

I know if I had had some success in flight, I'm not sure I would advertise it. The explanations would be a bit too much trouble to go through.

[Zenn]

Most people jump off a building because they believe they will hit the ground.

For those who truly believe they could fly, we don't know what their realities are, do we? A body on the ground is our reality.

[Angelique]

Originally Posted by Zenn

Most people jump off a building because they believe they will hit the ground.

For those who truly believe they could fly, we don't know what their realities are, do we? A body on the ground is our reality.

I love this answer!

[waizen]

Originally Posted by Zenn

Most people jump off a building because they believe they will hit the ground...

I agree with this. The hitting the ground part is what they truly feel deep down. Belief is a feeling. We all get what we feel, whether we want it or not.

[Rubns]

Originally Posted by Zenn

Most people jump off a building because they believe they will hit the ground.

For those who truly believe they could fly, we don't know what their realities are, do we? A body on the ground is our reality.

Exactly.

From a subjetive reality point of view I believe they couldn't fly so that's what I see.

[Balbrae]

Originally Posted by quiethumir

then why do those who believed they could fly, when they jump off the building, hit the ground?

Good question! According to Mike Dooley (and I think Seth?), for now, settled expectations of mass-consciousness observe certain agreed-upon rules, like rules that say humans cannot fly without aircraft or some apparatus, or rules that say growing back a limb cannot be done.

However, the tricky thing is that, mass-consciousness also observes the agreed-upon truth that we, as humans--or rules governing humans--can evolve and change (like new science based on stem-cell research or animal cloning, and like breaking world records in sports as time goes by (e.g., the marathon record increases incrementally as time goes by)).

So, theoretically, if there were a mass-shift in human consciousness on the topic of flying, we might be able to fly without aircraft, provided that our agreed-upon rules change. An example of this might be where are beliefs might be shifting as to whether meditators can levitate short distances for short periods of time.

As well, Seth talked about our beliefs in miracles and magic, whereby we would accept that sometimes, under certain conditions, people could fly, or a limb could regenerate. So the bottom line: where mass beliefs allow certain occurrences--whether by evolution in rules or by special variances from such rules (e.g., miracles), then yes, humans and--even pigs--could fly without aircraft!

[raykilleen]

Originally Posted by quiethumir

then why do those who believed they could fly, when they jump off the building, hit the ground?

Because beliefs like all dogma are illusions of the mind, gravity is something we all have direct experience with, ignore it and you will find out.

[guthrio]

Originally Posted by quiethumir

then why do those who believed they could fly, when they jump off the building, hit the ground?

Quiethumir,

Beliefs do NOT create reality....any more than believing that 2+2=5 makes it so. Belief is what we choose to tell OURSELVES is true about Reality until we experience what IS true regardless what we believe. Beliefs can be predicated upon false perceptions (lies) propped up to masquerade as Truth.

If we understand that the words "limitations" and "grasp" are simply metaphors for "beliefs", then it becomes transparently obvious that transcending "limitations" and exceeding "grasp" is really an exercise in PERCEIVING REALITY IN ITS TRUE DIMENSIONS.....AND APPLYING THE UNDERSTANDING THEREFROM ACCORDINGLY.

Consider the subject of miracles....

If we thought about the subject of miracles carefully, rationally, and truthfully, the ONLY LOGICAL CONCLUSION we could come to is that miracles are not only possible, but are actually the NORM of Reality.

The NORM OF REALITY ?? One may legitimately ask, if this is the norm, WHY ARE MIRACLES SO RARE ?? The answer is, because WE HAVE TOLD OURSELVES that these experiences are only impossible, improbable, exceptional, RARE occurrences that are beyond the reach and understanding of "mortal man".

BUT.....the truth about the "reach" of our very understanding of REALITY is that each and every advancement has come about AFTER WE DISCOVERED WHAT HAS ALWAYS BEEN TRUE, AND WAITING FOR US TO DISCOVER IT....

...even when the tightly held ideas WE THOUGHT WERE TRUE were REALLY based on false information and dogma, WHICH virtually everyone believed, transmitted, and acted upon AS IF TRUE .....that is, until others, following their OWN ideas came along, who had quantifiable, repeatable, verifiable evidence based on a DIFFERENT set of ideas that turned the paradigm of established scientific or religious consensus on its head !!

Do the Heavens still rotate around the Earth? Not after Copernicus, Kepler, and Galileo. Are time and space separate from one another? Not after Einstein. Did you get your vaccines this year? Thanks to Pasteur you did. Is the Earth still flat? Ask Erikson, Columbus or Magellan for the answer. Do you have to study your science homework or read the scriptures of whatever faith you profess in the dark? Not after a little help from Gutenburg and Edison. Is levitation of human beings impossible? Not since TODAY'S important discovery by Professor Ulf Leonhardt and Dr Thomas Philbin, from the University of St Andrews in Scotland (see source below). You can readily see the impact of individuals with their OWN ideas helping other individuals change THEIR ideas about these things, which eventually results in the civilization changing, right?

The "belief" in limitation must then be seen to be SELF-IMPOSED......and if self-imposed....

....IT MUST BE SELF-REMOVED !!

The Principles of Life uncovered by scientists that govern the relationship between mass, gravity, time, and the curvature of space to produce black holes have been in perfect operation just as eternally before their discovery of those principles as is the frequency upon which you enjoy listening to your favorite music; indeed, existent ever since the Universe cooled it into resonance along with the infinite gradations of frequency radiating beside it. These principles HAD to have been in operation just as perfectly BEFORE we discovered how to harness them into technology as they presently operate now. Or we would not be able to continue to utilize them for our technology today, much less build them into technological improvements tomorrow!

What we call miracles is NOT contravention of science. The accomplishment of miracles comes from a knowledge base that NEITHER SCIENCE NOR RELIGION has yet incorporated into its paradigm of "what is possible", EXCEPT for "special circumstances" that THEY determine are legitimate. Such a stance is ripe for refutation by verifiable, repeatable, quantifiable evidence, as I mentioned before. IT SHOULD BE OBVIOUS THAT the accomplishment of miracles is based on immutable principles, too. And once you discover them in yourself (and they ARE waiting for you to do so) just as scientists have been "discovering" new ways of looking at the Universe, we, too will be able to utilize Spiritual principles to accomplish the very same things. Understand, though, that you must scientifically uncover, know, operate, and practice the correct principles within the "laboratory" of YOURSELF! Exactly as any scientist learns to apply the principles of mathematics or any other scientific discipline. Understand that the same Source Who created perfect principles of mathematics which operate undeviatingly to create ONLY 4 as the answer also created US out of perfect principles, the correct application of which enables us to accomplish anything consistent with those principles.

(And they operate perfectly whether or not you are testing them while jumping off a tall building)

Whether scientists, theologians, philosophers, or laypersons, we “see” through our ideas.

"Perfection does not come from projecting our own ideas but from awakening to the knowledge that it is already the established order of things.", as indicated in the reference.

....don't believe me? Try MAKING 2+2=5. Doesn't work, does it? We cannot even MAKE 2+2=4. 2+2=4, whether you sum the equation correctly or NOT ! WHY ??

Because neither Truth NOR Perfection can change OR be changed. ALL the principles of Life operate that way, perfectly, without variation, deviation, or attenuation for anyone, at anytime, anywhere !! We can ONLY accept its perfect operation, because we cannot change Truth.

If Perfection is ALREADY the established order of things, AND is PLAINLY EVIDENT IN ALL THE PRINCIPLES OF LIFE, WHY HAVEN'T WE KNOWN THIS ??

BECAUSE WE ALL are free to choose to believe that 2+2=5 for ETERNITY until we have acquired FOR OURSELVES the necessary knowledge of the immutable principle that correctly sums the answer.

Please understand that I am only using this mathematical example as a metaphor for THAT which is not only real, but is also true, and which ALSO cannot change.

The same Source Who created perfect principles of mathematics which operate undeviatingly to create ONLY 4 as the answer to 2+2, ALSO CREATED US out of perfect principles.

The Creator Himself IS the VERY pattern by which mankind was made. Jesus' message and reason for coming to this earthly dimension was to show us, in as stark, as uncompromising, and as definitive a manner as possible, that we are as He is, which is as our Creator endowed us all to be, and that is as immortal, Spiritual beings who are the Spirit and Image of our Creator. We are NOT physical beings. We are Spiritual Beings like He is! Our Father created Jesus just as He created us...the exact Spirit and Likeness of Himself. We are PERFECTLY CREATED SPIRITUAL BEINGS, who have forgotten Who we are.

If we really thought about it, if the accomplishment of miracles was not ALSO based on perfect, unchangeable principles, Jesus would not have been able to truthfully say to us, "Greater things than these shall you also do." Not so just one person can do it (Him), but so that anybody could do it, following relevant principles.

Though WE may have forgotten Who we, and each other, we are yet Sons and Daughters of the Most High. Again, we are Who the Creator is in Spirit....not subservient adherents to whatever religion or philosophy we profess to include ourselves.

No attempt on our part to ignore, change, disbelieve, or rationalize affects its perfection in ANY way whatsoever !! Furthermore, WE can validate that the correct application of such principles enables us to accomplish anything consistent with those principles. Yes, WE can deny this.....but WE still cannot change the Truth or Perfection of it....any more than WE can CAUSE 2+2 to equal anything but 4.

Experiencing what IS true about Reality is knowledge.

It is ironic that Man, usually comes to the knowledge that he can only be the perfect Creation He was created to be AFTER having amassed an advanced maturity of years of pain and suffering in ignoble ignorance of the greatness of His true estate.

It is NOT supposed to be this way.....

As author Baird Spalding says in the reference, ”Becoming aware of yourself as a spiritual being, offspring of an infinite spiritual system and one with all the powers and capacities within that system, is the very essence of attainment. To grow from the present state of awareness of himself as a material being and into the consciousness that he is a spiritual being contains the full secret of man's attainment.' Man's nature cannot be reversed for he always remains a spiritual being. He can only reverse his notion of himself. Instead of doing this, he should reverse his mistaken idea that he is a material being and retain the truth that he is a spiritual being created in the image and likeness of God."

We must RE-awaken to the knowledge that OUR OWN PERFECTION within this infinite Spiritual system is ALREADY the established order of things....and act accordingly.

The fact is, that Man, created as the very Spirit and Image of the Creator, Himself.....IS the MIRACLE....

AS THUS CREATED, IT BECOMES APPARENT THAT OUR TRUE HERITAGE IS NOT ONLY WITHIN OUR GRASP.....BUT THAT OUR REACH, IN TRUTH.........IS INFINITE !!

.....which awaits Mankind's discovery (grasp) of that immutable Truth....

.....every moment of Eternity....

Source(s):

Physicists have 'solved' mystery of levitation - Telegraph

Life and Teaching of the Masters of the Far East
Volumes 1 - 6 by Baird T. Spalding

[Anagogy]

Originally Posted by quiethumir

then why do those who believed they could fly, when they jump off the building, hit the ground?

If beliefs create reality...

Then the people who hit the ground didn't truly believe they could fly.

Non-contradicted focus is a rare thing. If the focus is pure, the experience or reality that coalesces about that belief will also be pure.

[quiethumir]

Originally Posted by Anagogy

If beliefs create reality...

Then the people who hit the ground didn't truly believe they could fly.

Non-contradicted focus is a rare thing. If the focus is pure, the experience or reality that coalesces about that belief will also be pure.

Then how come I've never seen someone in my entire life who flew. If it's really all about beliefs, then there should be quite a bit of people who fly to work or something.

I do believe that beliefs create reality but there are exceptions.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by quiethumir

Then how come I've never seen someone in my entire life who flew.

Mmmm, I guess you don't believe it's possible.

[Anagogy]

Originally Posted by quiethumir

Then how come I've never seen someone in my entire life who flew. If it's really all about beliefs, then there should be quite a bit of people who fly to work or something.

I do believe that beliefs create reality but there are exceptions.

ALG raises a very valid point.

You can't just take into account the belief of the hypothetical supermen, you also have to take into account your own beliefs. Your beliefs, too, are filtering your experience of reality. The fact that you are posting about this topic is indicative of the incredulity (or unbelievability) of such an act. Your belief system will filter out relevant evidence to the contrary.

Also, consider how rare such an event would be in the social climate of a civilization more or less dominated by the scientific assertion that such things are not possible. The individual who overcomes this mass consciousness belief would have to be one insanely focused individual to muster up the non-contradicted faith necessary for such an act to be realized.

[Qwuakeup]

I got another question...

If they TRULY believed they could fly, why didn't they take off from the ground first?

[Lil Chris]

What comes to my mind are people like Tesla, Franklin, Einstein.

These are folks who kept looking, kept testing, kept searching for the truth. They didn't settle for ideas of "this is reality", this is the way it is. They had ideas, often unique and out there and developed them until they became a reality. My suggestion is perhaps we just haven't developed the idea of, for example flying or having the ability to fly, and have settled for a version of lesser abilities.

Perhaps this notion is just pie in the sky thinking, but I'd like to think we just haven't discovered the abilities yet. Like an elephant tied up as a baby with a small piece of rope cannot break the rope and comes to believe that as an adult he still can't break the rope because he's unwilling to try later in life. Beliefs may just limit perceived abilities.

But, if you do decide to develop the ability to fly, start from the ground.

[Zenn]

Originally Posted by Qwuakeup

I got another question...

If they TRULY believed they could fly, why didn't they take off from the ground first?

Ha, exactly what I was going to post about!

The fact that someone sees the need to take off from a building or any other higher point indicates a need to prove their anti-gravity ability, thus acknowledging gravity.

[Criseyde]

There have been several accounts of Indian yogis levitating. It's a siddhi, according to Patanjali.