Attracting something and being the cause of it

[Lychee]

I feel there is a confusion between a person "attracting" something into their life and being the direct cause of it. In various discussion boards I've read of instances of someone who is cheated on in a relationship. This person feels that they attracted that situation into their life and they decide to give their partner another chance despite their infidelity. Relationships seem to be the best example for this since the exact chemistry or cause cannot be determined.

I believe this is a great error and I'll try to explain why. Many of you have seen "The Secret." The movie explains that if two people are vibrating at different energies, they will not be in sync with each other. If any of you remember, there was a scene where a husband finds a note by his wife on the table which reads that she is out with her friends, and the movie cuts to her having a good time in a restaurant. Alright. If a man is having lustful thoughts and is not satisfied by his partner anymore, he is vibrating at a frequency different from his wife, who may be vibrating love and acceptance. He may not feel her love and acceptance. She may feel he is not interested in her. So, he later cheats on her. Was she the cause of it? No, I don't believe so. Did she attract it into her life? Yes but it is not her fault. But I think it's important to distinguish between reaction and cause. This woman may have attracted this incident in her life for a good reason. It may have been a sign from God to show her that this man wasn't the right one for her. Thinking that this man's decision to cheat is somehow also tied in with her means that whatever anyone does to her is her fault. I'd also like to say (even though many people here aren't religious) that no person can bear the sins of another and I believe this relates to the above example.

Just my 2 cents.

[Betrade]

I agree, having gone through a situation as you described with an unfaithful wife. I may have attracted her, but she's the only woman I have ever attracted who cheated on me, so it's not as though I attarct cheaters as a habit.

There's free will, and people make choices that can harm others close to them, especially when there are children involved. In my case, we had a family of six, and just one chose to risk breaking up the family, and now, we have 6 people who have been affected in ways that i can't even fully figure out until the future, because the long term effects haven't panned out at this point, yet these effects are a direct result of the choice of one, and not the many.

So, did the rest of us cause this to manifest in our lives?? Did young kids attract this from their own mother??? I don't think so, especially when my youngest boy was only 18 months old at the time. He surely didn't "desire" this, I know for a fact that I didn't, and I seriously doubt that anyone else did either.

[dorothy hanna]

My situation does not have to do with cheating spouses, but with, family members who seem to go about things in a way that complicate things unneccearily.
They are extra cautious when making decisions etc...and are always saying, "We just wabt to proceed with caution, in case something may come back to bite us in the butt, later on." And sure enough, in spite of all their caution, things keep coming up to bite us all in the butt.

I'm caught in it, as I'm tied into their decisions, as a family, and I attracted this family, as I married into it, but I can see that the individual things that pop up, to bite us in the butt, are not my manifestation, it's theirs.

I am getting better, and better, at being uneffected by their family decisins, by using my own internal guidance system, and being grateful for the good things I have. I know, a little down the road, I will be totally unaffected by the choices they make, and their way of doing things in such a complcated manner.

[Asmoday]

I think it is important to realise, though, just exactly what it was that you attracted in the first place.

Sometimes, its too straight-forward and inaccurate to say "I attracted infidelity" or "I attracted cautious family".

Perhaps you have a belief that says, "Whenever I am vulnerable, I am hurt".

Thus, when the relationship gets good, you subconsciously do things to push away, then reel em back, until the inevitable happens. But this could also manifest in friendships, or self-sabotage when going for what you really want.

Or, perhaps you have a belief that says, "My obstacles protect me, without their protection, I couldn't hack it,".

So, you manifest a family that is always steeling any thunder you rev-up with too much pessimism. But, again, this could also manifest any number of ways. For example, on the day you go to give your dissertation, you subconsciously eat something you know you're allergic to, so your defense sucks, and thus, you are passed over.

The important part is to find the underlying belief systems that produce the patterns in our lives.

Yeah, this is tough. I'm just beginning to sip on that soul-drink.

And remember, any negative, limiting belief like that, when viewed from its own belief system, is positive and protective.

Sometimes, asking yourself how you are being over-protective can help in the inner echo-location process, I have found.

Ultimately, though, you can't just melt-down the mental jewelry once you've found it. Well, you can, but only in the furnace of counter-experience. So, in the above cases, you would need to make yourself vulnerable in ways and then demonstrate that you weren't hurt. Or, overcome obstacles, and see that there was no anvil around the corner waiting to drop. THEN, the belief can be shown for the boogeyman that it is.

Otherwise, you run the risk of rooting it around, but having it grow back.

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by Asmoday

Perhaps you have a belief that says, "Whenever I am vulnerable, I am hurt".

Good insight, Asmoday !

There's always diving in head first, (confronting vulnerableness and resulting pain) may sting a bit, but it'll get the job done.

[Lychee]

Originally Posted by Asmoday

I think it is important to realise, though, just exactly what it was that you attracted in the first place.

Sometimes, its too straight-forward and inaccurate to say "I attracted infidelity" or "I attracted cautious family".

Perhaps you have a belief that says, "Whenever I am vulnerable, I am hurt".

Thus, when the relationship gets good, you subconsciously do things to push away, then reel em back, until the inevitable happens. But this could also manifest in friendships, or self-sabotage when going for what you really want.

Or, perhaps you have a belief that says, "My obstacles protect me, without their protection, I couldn't hack it,".

So, you manifest a family that is always steeling any thunder you rev-up with too much pessimism. But, again, this could also manifest any number of ways. For example, on the day you go to give your dissertation, you subconsciously eat something you know you're allergic to, so your defense sucks, and thus, you are passed over.

The important part is to find the underlying belief systems that produce the patterns in our lives.

Yeah, this is tough. I'm just beginning to sip on that soul-drink.

And remember, any negative, limiting belief like that, when viewed from its own belief system, is positive and protective.

Sometimes, asking yourself how you are being over-protective can help in the inner echo-location process, I have found.

Ultimately, though, you can't just melt-down the mental jewelry once you've found it. Well, you can, but only in the furnace of counter-experience. So, in the above cases, you would need to make yourself vulnerable in ways and then demonstrate that you weren't hurt. Or, overcome obstacles, and see that there was no anvil around the corner waiting to drop. THEN, the belief can be shown for the boogeyman that it is.

Otherwise, you run the risk of rooting it around, but having it grow back.

I completely agree with you. Our subconscious programming often runs the scripts in our lives. Another thing that can be done to change our beliefs without challenging them outright is to displace them slowly by suggestion. This is what many LOA-practitioners advocate by visualization.

[Asmoday]

Originally Posted by Lychee

I completely agree with you. Our subconscious programming often runs the scripts in our lives. Another thing that can be done to change our beliefs without challenging them outright is to displace them slowly by suggestion. This is what many LOA-practitioners advocate by visualization.

Yes, this is why I distinguish between desire-attraction (wanting something, focusing on it, and pulling it to you), versus auto-attraction (your beliefs, which will eventually over-ride your desire attractions to make reality match what you subconsciously see yourself as).

Its like we've all got Residual Self Image, from the Matrix (RSI)

Except this is Residual Self Intention, LOL

Now, I'm trying that with some of the beliefs that I have uncovered.

Yet, I have some reservations.

My questions are these:

Can suggestion really reform paradigm? By this I mean, if a positive thought is many times more powerful than a negative thought -- can't a negative experience be many times more powerful than a positive thought? Of course, you can take the pseudo-eastern route here and argue its all the same stuff, since the "negative" in negative experiences are the judgements (thoughts) placed on top of actually neutral events -- but I think this is taking experience to too base of a level. In short, we're loosing the forest of praxis from the theory of the trees.

And, assuming we can slowly "buff out" these beliefs with suggestion, wouldn't we have to really attack it with suggestion? For example, I just don't buy that an hour a day of a positive affirmation tape can overwrite experientially formed paradigm in any space that is moderate if not uber-long. It seems to me you would have to be finatic about the tapes for years for this to work...

All of that goes with the caviat that I'm a newbie with no long term experience in the matter. Any thoughts?

[visualization]

Well, it is common that when a person i hurt, he will concentrate on the hurt. And does this attract more hurt?

We had been going for many years now and recently she said she wanted some space. I used to have thoughts of what if she leaves for good? And the feeling can get intense. And eventually it really happens. So do I attract this event to happen or this is her choice?

I believe people have free will and whenever a decision is made that person is responsible for the effect. This is because different people can make very different decisions given the same situation. They cant blame the situation for what they turn out.

[eternomi]

Originally Posted by visualization

We had been going for many years now and recently she said she wanted some space. I used to have thoughts of what if she leaves for good? And the feeling can get intense. And eventually it really happens. So do I attract this event to happen or this is her choice?

Maybe it isn't so much the thinking about her leaving, but that perhaps at some level you believe you don't deserve her? or that you two don't belong because she is better, smarter, prettier, etc.. or perhaps you truely are no longer a match for whatever reason, and you need to let that one go.

I personally don't believe thinking creates as much of an effect as believing does, but of course beliefs are formed based on your habitual thinking, which are tied to your habitual experiences... and those are, I think, tied back to your subconscious beliefs that come from your DNA, so here you have a full circle. I think this circle is what subjective reality is all about.

[ethereal]

Hehe, this is a great discussion, enjoying the posts made here

Just wanted to add a few things:

- There really is no such thing as cause/effect, because everything has a gazillion causes, many of which are beyond our comprehension, such as...
- Karma often has a huge component in almost all major life events. You may say that you "caused" something to happen with LoA and visualization, but what "caused" you to even be interested in it in the first place? There really isn't a satisfactory answer, because there really is no cause -- the ego takes credit and attributes it to some imaginary entity "I" who is choosing and causing things to happen
- if there really is this imaginary entity "I" who is choosing and causing, then it is also responsible for the outcomes of those choices and thus earns praise/blame from others and itself for those outcomes. This duality might be good if you can consistently get perfect outcomes every time, but if not, good luck cause you'll be in for a lot of self-guilt

Anyway, that's getting too deep into other topics and I don't want to derail the thread (or did I do it already? oops )

[Lychee]

Originally Posted by ethereal

Hehe, this is a great discussion, enjoying the posts made here

Just wanted to add a few things:

- There really is no such thing as cause/effect, because everything has a gazillion causes, many of which are beyond our comprehension, such as...
- Karma often has a huge component in almost all major life events. You may say that you "caused" something to happen with LoA and visualization, but what "caused" you to even be interested in it in the first place? There really isn't a satisfactory answer, because there really is no cause -- the ego takes credit and attributes it to some imaginary entity "I" who is choosing and causing things to happen
- if there really is this imaginary entity "I" who is choosing and causing, then it is also responsible for the outcomes of those choices and thus earns praise/blame from others and itself for those outcomes. This duality might be good if you can consistently get perfect outcomes every time, but if not, good luck cause you'll be in for a lot of self-guilt

Anyway, that's getting too deep into other topics and I don't want to derail the thread (or did I do it already? oops )

Complexity of life doesn't mean that cause and effect doesn't exist. It is a dance of energies which result in a particular outcome.

If the "I" that we see is imaginary, then the formation of the ego would not be necessary. But it is. It allows us to distinguish between our consciousness and others thus maintaining our sanity.

The Self which is the cause is only he cause at the smaller scale. There is a greater Cause which is moving the events of this world and in each person's life.

[NPendrigh]

This may sound simple - like people are attracted to like
Like minds are attracted to like
Like thoughts are attracted to like
If you are interested, there is more at: NigelPendrigh. Com/Interview
You have to be what you want to attract
I am a scientist and when terms such as "Law" are used, I think of it in a different way - there needs to be proof - I have not seen any proof yet. That said, I believe that a positive conscious and unconscious mindset looking for win-win will make life a lot happier for both myself and those with whom I interact
For those times when things do not work out, vibrations being out of synch, etc. I think those are symptoms and not causes

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by NPendrigh

I am a scientist and when terms such as "Law" are used, I think of it in a different way - there needs to be proof - I have not seen any proof yet.

What you mean is that you have not encountered proof that is in accordance with the scientific method.

Apart from LOA, these are some of the other things in the world that cannot be proved in accordance with the scientific method:

1. technical analysis in stock-picking
2. the existence of God
3. Adler's theory of the effects of birth order on personality
4. that Pavarotti is a better singer than me
5. the law of supply and demand
6. the fact that your mother loves you

I hope by now you understand the shortcomings of the scientific method.

[Betrade]

Originally Posted by NPendrigh

This may sound simple - like people are attracted to like
Like minds are attracted to like
Like thoughts are attracted to like
If you are interested, there is more at: NigelPendrigh. Com/Interview
You have to be what you want to attract
I am a scientist and when terms such as "Law" are used, I think of it in a different way - there needs to be proof - I have not seen any proof yet. That said, I believe that a positive conscious and unconscious mindset looking for win-win will make life a lot happier for both myself and those with whom I interact
For those times when things do not work out, vibrations being out of synch, etc. I think those are symptoms and not causes

I've seen lots of opposites attract, especially men and women. I attracted a wife who was my complete opposite. I definitely attracted her, because I wasn't even interested at all when we were introduced, and she tracked me down and pusued me ruthlessly. Granted, she deceived me into thinking she was a completely different person than she truly is, and kept the ruse up for a very long time (long enough to trap me with a pregnancy), but in reality, she was a cold calculating snake in the grass and a pathological liar, who was just looking for someone to take care of her so she could avoid working for a living.

She turned out to be the exact opposite of everything I would ever want in a wife, and as I mentioned in another post, she's the only one I ever attracted with those traits. Every single woman I have ever been involved with was NICE to me, as well as faithful, except for the one I wound up marrying.

How do you explain that with LOA?? I never saw her infidelity coming either, and niether did my kids. I wasn't expecting it, or even thinking about it in any way. I wasn't worrying that it may happen, or wondering what it would be like to go through such an experience, or that we would seperate, so how does LOA apply in such a situation??

I do know that similiarly charged particles repel (and we can debtae about particles and waves, and whether particles are indeed waves at their core, which opens up all kind of possibilities), and oppositely charged particles attract, which can easily be demonstrated scientifically with two magnets, among other things.

This applies to people as well in many cases. I have seen so many opposites attract, only to seperate/divorce years down the road because they just can't relate to one another at all, and they all wonder what ever attracted them to the other to begin with. Again, where does LOA fit in with those cases??

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by Lychee

. There is a greater Cause which is moving the events of this world and in each person's life.

Everyone experiences reality from their own innate personal view.
Everyone has their own universe.

The 'greater cause' moving events in a person's universe........ is that person.

[Lychee]

Originally Posted by infinitethoughts

Everyone experiences reality from their own innate personal view.
Everyone has their own universe.

The 'greater cause' moving events in a person's universe........ is that person.

Everyone has their own universe, but that universe is contained in something greater.

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by Lychee

Everyone has their own universe, but that universe is contained in something greater.

Everyone's universe, creates that what is greater.
We're all infinite.

[Lychee]

Originally Posted by infinitethoughts

Everyone's universe, creates that what is greater.
We're all infinite.

We do have control over our lives. But there is a greater force directing our fate. We are not infinite beings in the sense that we can do whatever we want, not bound by limitations.

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by Lychee

We are not infinite beings in the sense that we can do whatever we want, not bound by limitations.

How do you know...... that we're not beings that have no limitations here?

[Lychee]

Originally Posted by infinitethoughts

How do you know...... that we're not beings that have no limitations here?

lol Because we are conscious of limitation. That's why we recognize there are laws to keep things in place. We cannot breathe in the universe because there is no air. You might say, perhaps we haven't reached the consciousness to be able to do such things. If we truly we gods, we would already have that consciousness and all consciousness. We wouldn't need to work or worry.

[Asmoday]

The great thing about subjective reality is:

You're all right. :-)

Enjoy that.

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by Lychee

lol Because we are conscious of limitation. That's why we recognize there are laws to keep things in place. We cannot breathe in the universe because there is no air. You might say, perhaps we haven't reached the consciousness to be able to do such things. If we truly we gods, we would already have that consciousness and all consciousness. We wouldn't need to work or worry.

"We" ?

Originally Posted by Asmoday

The great thing about subjective reality is:

You're all right. :-)

Enjoy that.

Nicely put.