Parallel Worlds: Hannel, Seth, Abraham

[Balbrae]

In the '80s, I read all the Seth books by Jane Roberts. I was fascinated with the material. About two years ago, I read some Abraham books by Esther Hicks. Also fascinating material. About a month ago, I started listening to the audio book, "The Master Key System," by Charles Hannel--the updated version for the 21st century (narrated by James Boles). I've listened to it many times now. It, too, was fascinating.

These three groups of books offer the same inspiring and brilliant philosophy: you form your own reality with your beliefs. It would seem that Hannel came first, in the early 20th century. The Seth Material books came later, in the early 1960s. Finally, the Abraham books arrived on the scene well after that. I seem to recall that the Abraham material gave "credit" or mention of the Seth books, and possibly the Hannel books (I'd have to double check on that). I don't recall that the Seth books gave any credit or mention of the Hannel material.

If you all haven't read these three variations on the you-form-your-own-reality themes, I highly recommend it. The different styles and perspectives on the same teachings are extremely helpful in reinforcing the fundamental philosopy of manifesting your own reality. Hannel is quite confident in his "scientific" exposition of the law of attraction. Seth is quite intense, humorous, verbose, and technical in his exposition. Abraham is a bit more lighthearted and "warm and fuzzy" in his accounting. Yet, all three styles combine quite well to drill the truths into our minds.

Hannel

Hannel's fundamental message: You are a localized manifestation of spirit who is always tapped into the universal Spirit, allowing you to manifest anything because Spirit is omnipresent and omnipotent. Hannel says our true work is to convince ourselves of this truth, which will automatically trigger the results we want. Hannel states that the error of the ages is seeking to effect positive change by manipulating the "world without," which is only the result of the "world within." Hannel implores the seeker to effect positive change by focusing on the "world within."

Hannel's humorous observation is that we readily accept the fact that physical laws have scientific precision, but we don't imagine that spiritual laws have the same scientific precision. Hannel is insistent: spiritual laws are as scientific as physical laws, and they always work the same way, no matter who the person is or what the circumstances are. For Hannel, positive thoughts of abundance, health, and harmony cause manifestation of the same in physical reality through the Law of Attraction and Law of Vibration because "like attracts like."

Hannel's golden affirmations for readers to use: (1) "I can be whatever I will to be," which reinforces our awareness of the spiritual "I" behind our existence, which is all-powerful; and (2) "I am whole, perfect, strong, powerful, loving, harmonious, and happy," which affirms the highest truth of our perfect spirits, which vanquishes fear as the light does to dark and accelerates positive manifestations in our life. Hannel says that these particular affirmations contain the highest truths about the perfect nature of our spirits. Accordingly, they have the highest vibrations, which can destroy all adverse conditions. Hannel reports that a cripple or person with a twisted body (unclear) used this affirmation night and day for years to reverse his affliction completely and permanently--a truly inspiring anectdote. I am truly fascinated that Hannel was offering these teachings in the early 20th century, long before the dawn of New Age materials.

Seth

Seth's fundamental message: You form your own reality with your belief system; to change your reality, change your "core beliefs." This is very similar to a branch of psychology known as Rational-Emotive-Cognitive theory, which posits that a belief held is activated by an event, causing an emotional response in line with the belief. So there is mainstream psychology agreeing with Seth.

Seth goes way beyond addressing mere matters of how to change one's reality through changed thought. He gives a wide-ranging account of the nature of reality, including the topic of reincarnation. ("You will reincarnate whether you believe it or not," says Seth.) Seth talks about how the mind creates reality by actually "projecting" images into a "physical world"--like a movie projector onto a screen. According to Seth, after we physically create the universe through thought projection, we observe the projection, accept it as reality, but forget that we created it. This gives rise to our misimpression that there is a world out there, outside of ourselves. (Isn't this a belief advanced by the teachings known as A Course in Miracles?) Seth can be quite technical, coining terms such as "consciousness units" to describe the as-of-yet-scientifically-undetectable energy that we project outward, to create our sense of a physical reality. Seth's golden affirmation is "every day in every way I get better and better."

Seth can be a bit overwhelming, and his teaching concerning multi-dimensional reality and parallel worlds can be a bit heady. Sometimes, his statements leave one completely perplexed, For example, Seth said that the historical Jesus Christ was "real," but not from our dimension of physical reality. Seth claims that Jesus Christ lived physically in a different dimension or parallel world. So powerful was Jesus' influence in that dimension or parallel world that he was perceived as belonging to the history of our dimension or parallel world, through a ripple or spill-over effect. Seth also said that little is known on the Askashic Plane of the ultimate creator (i.e. "God"), other than that God seems to have created us by "blowing himself up," out of a desire to end his loneliness. For Seth, God long ago created this system and has apparently expanded way beyond--or moved on from--this realm. This part of his teachings seem a bit melancholy, but I probably took his statement the wrong way.

As well, Seth can be quite irreverant. Seth disagreeed with Buddha on the topic of the human ego. Seth was a big proponent of the idea that the human ego is our friend, not our enemy. He was greatly irked by belief systems that hold a dim view of the human ego, which, for Seth, was characteristic of Buddhism. On this score, Seth said, "one would do well to run from Buddha." Seth went so far as to say Buddha changed his opinion on the topic after Buddha died, to be more in line with Seth's view. Seth was quite forceful on the point: one should not pursue anhiliating one's ego or meditating to "bliss out" or "blot out" one's inviolate, unique individuality. For Seth, we humans are both: (1) inviolately individual (and the ego tirelessly and thanklessly serves our best interest by protecting us); and (2) all connected to the main whole. So he agreed with Buddhism on the illusory nature of our "separation,"--somewhat. The bottom line: Seth is bold, provocative, and shares the message of positive manifestation that is espoused by Hannel and Abraham.

Abraham

Abraham's teachings are more lighthearted. The Abraham teachings are presented or channeled by Esther Hicks, who with her husband Jerry, still give seminars or workshops on Abraham's teachings. This is a real plus because Hannel is long since dead, as is Jane Roberts who channeled the Seth material.

Abraham's central tenet is summed up: "you get what you think about, whether you want it or not." Accordingly, his golden affirmations would include anything you want to manifest by focusing on them. Abraham boldly advises one to engage in positive denial: focus on what you want to be true; not on what is distrubingly true at the moment; in time, through the Law of Attaction, you will turn the tables on "truth" and create a new outcome.

Abraham also got his licks in on Buddhism--albeit in a more gentle way. Abraham noted that it is not possible to do away with desire because a desire to end desire is a desire, in and of itself. While I am not sure that this is a fair characterization of what Buddhists teach or aim to do, Abraham is merely pointing out that spiritual growth can be about manifesting abundance, rather than achieving contentedness with minimalism. This makes sense.

Has anyone else read these three groupings of materials, and do you all agree that they are related and offer similar teachings? You thoughts and insights would be most appreciated!

[guthrio]

Balbrae, I found your post very interesting. I regret not having read Hannel or Abraham, but your descriptions of their views correspond closely with what I've come to understand as valid, at least in my own experience. I, too, was fascinated by the Seth material and found its insights valuable, especially the portion of Seth's book entitled, "Dreams, "Evolution", and Value Fulfillment - Volume I...where he weaves a reference to Charles Dickens' novel "Great Expectations" (on page 176) into an explanation of what we are now calling the Law of Attraction. Seth continues (on page 178) that..."The important lessons have never really appeared in your societies: the most beneficial use of the directed will, with great expectations, and that coupled with the knowledge of Framework 1 and 2 activities. Very simply: You want something, you dwell upon it consciously for a while, you consciously imagine it coming to the forefront of probabilities, closer to your actuality. Then you drop it like a pebble into Framework 2, forget about it as much as possible for a fortnight, and do this in a certain rhythm."

I realize now that Framework 1 is an interaction between one's conscious mind in conjunction with one's subconscious mind, to "imagine something coming closer to your actuality"....which then activates the ever-present connection within us to Framework 2, the superconscious mind....that "actualizes" our inner intention into our outer experience. How cool is that?

I am very much influenced by two other sources, each of which I refer to at the end of this post. They both have helped me immensely understand what I now relate as my understanding of the Law of Attraction.....

As stated in the 1st reference, "When one realizes that the whole problem of manifest results is more a matter of opening up the consciousness to see or include something which already exists in Fact, instead of trying to bring something that is not out into manifest form, then the matter will be much simpler."

It’s very much like how a Tom-Tom or Garmin GPS system works in your automobile. You recognize that the GPS acts like a single system, right ? That’s because to IT, ALL the “points of reference” (i.e. places you CAN go) exist within the system…..NOW, no matter where YOU are in relation to ANY of them. With some GPS models configured with 6 million or more “points of reference”, all YOU have to do is tell the GPS where you want to go, so that the GPS can tell you how to get there !

Just as the GPS, in conjunction with orbiting satellites, all act as a single unit to convey your intention in this metaphor I described, so does do our own minds, but...with a crucial difference between the GPS metaphor and Reality. And that is......that our minds work in conjunction with an "operating system", which in Reality is.....the the entirety of Creation, seen and unseen....operating as one.....AT ONCE.....to do so.

ALL of Creation, or Reality is One Eternal Entirety...NOW ! This is why the only time you CAN state your intent (desire) IS now. And the only time you can receive your desire (or solution, or arrive at your destination, etc.) IS now, as well. So between the time you ASK and the time you RECEIVE is.......only NOW !

How long does it take ? NOW ! There is no other time but now ! There is no past. There is no future ! What we call past or future is just a different part of NOW, that is not divided at ANY point or time, whatsoever. ALL IS NOW ! because ALL IS ONE, which includes you asking AND you receiving....and all times in between.....NOW.

We've been erroneously taught that FIRST we must ask, THEN we can receive. Why erroneously? Think about it.

The solutions we seek PRECEDE our need.....exactly like the availability of air precedes our need to breathe it.

If the answer (solution) were not ALREADY true, and truly within YOU.....you would not be ABLE to recognize (RE - cognize) the Truth of it AS the answer (solution) !!

When we understand that all the principles of Life are ALWAYS consistent with Truth, without variation, deviation, or attenuation for anybody, at any time, or any place, then we'll begin to see that the real test in Life, is to live KNOWING the difference....between TRUTH and belief, and that the consequences of our actions WILL occur just as certainly as 2+2=4, truthfully, invariably, perfectly......and unavoidably. In the same way, ALL Principles of Life are True, Perfect, and Immutable....BEFORE you are even ABLE to know them or utilize them.....

"When you pray, pray believing that what you have asked is yours. It is done unto you as you believe."

Substitute the word "KNOW" for "believe".

"When you pray, pray KNOWING that what you have asked is yours. It is done unto you as you KNOW"......when you KNOW truly that it is so (without doubting).

Why ? Because doubt is really "accepting" an alternate outcome, WHILE HOPING that it doesn't happen.

Using the GPS metaphor, again, doubt is like telling yourself where you want to go.....but inputting a destination into the GPS other than the one you say you really want. Where do YOU think the "system" will take you......perfectly ? To the ALTERNATE destination YOU inputted, right ? Not to the solution you really wanted, but did NOT input.

No different than how your OWN mind operates, in conjunction with the entirety of Creation WORKING AS ONE....PERFECTLY !....to take YOU to the "alternate" destination (solution) you TOLD YOURSELF about with doubt.... instead of the outcome you wanted ! That is why we are supposed to clearly state what we WANT to happen (clarity), not what we HOPE doesn't happen (doubt).

"Perfection does not come from projecting our own ideas but from awakening to the knowledge that it is already the established order of things.".....as indicated in the 1st reference.

2+2=4,....even BEFORE you compute it !! .....NOW, right ?

THAT is the secret (law of attraction) ! .....accepting that what you desire is already truly yours !!

.....EXACTLY like 2+2=4 even BEFORE you compute it !

Does the secret (law of attraction) really work?

YES !!!...... PERFECTLY ! as based on YOUR CLEARLY STATED and FIRMLY ACCEPTED INTENT (input). Using the GPS metaphor again:

1. CLEARLY ACCEPT that what you want (i.e. where you want to go) already exists (RIGHT NOW !) BEFORE you experience it (i.e. “arrive”)

2. CLEARLY STATE TO YOURSELF what you want (where you want to be).

3.CLEARLY INPUT what you want into the very mechanism whose SOLE purpose is to RECEIVE and ACT UPON YOUR CLEAR INPUT.....your OWN MIND.

4.“LET” (not begging or forcing !) the system “TELL YOU HOW TO GET THERE” or “bring IT to YOU”.

NOTHING ABOUT THIS PROCESS involves ANY wishing or pleading or hoping, whatsoever.

IT IS ALL ABOUT KNOWING and ACCEPTING...BEFOREHAND, not about wishing or doubting !

It's not a matter of "if" our prayers are answered. It's a matter of "when" we are ready to accept that which has always been ours.

We do NOT need to wish for the perfect solution, because it ALREADY IS TRUE ! Do NOT wish.....KNOW !

As indicated in the 2nd reference, "In the last analysis there is but one treatment given for anything that is desired. That treatment consists in convincing the mind that the thing desired is already accomplished...." It goes on to say, "Treatment is not for the purpose of making things happen; it is to provide, within ourselves, an avenue through which they may happen. Treatment opens up the avenues of thought, expands the consciousness, and lets Reality through; it clarifies the mentality, removes the obstructions of thought and lets in the Light. We already live in a Perfect Universe, but It needs to be mentally seen before It can become a part of our experience."

Creation perfectly knows where we are, in relation to the destination, or the solution, or the desire....which EXISTS RIGHT THIS MOMENT, whether we are focused on it or not.

....because Creation is One....and we are inseparably one with EVERYTHING in It. There are NO gaps or separations between us and ANYTHING in Creaton. This includes all the "points of action" required to manifest you AS the solution, desire, or destination.

Not "to" you....."as" you.

Because….the destination, or the solution, or the desire is NOT attracted TO you.

The destination, or the solution, or the desire IS YOU...EXPERIENCING IT !!

YOU ARE the very experience OF the destination, or the solution, or the desire…..NOW !!

ALL WE NEED TO DO is accept that it's ours....NOW.....and "let" ALL OF CREATION create the experience OF us becoming our desire.

Finally, as our desire is being transformed into our "experience of it", we must continually nurture our desire with expectant, loving thoughts of the good you will receive by LIVING OUR THANKS...before and after it comes into visible expression. NOTHING works faster to "bring something into actuality"...than LIVING OUR THANKS for it.

And yes, this has worked....PERFECTLY for me, as I'm certain it will for anyone else who would like to use this perspective for themselves !!

Source(s):
Life and Teaching of the Masters of the Far East
Volumes 1 - 6 by Baird T. Spalding

Questions and Answers on the Science of Mind
by Ernest Holmes & Alberta Smith

[iraro]

Originally Posted by Balbrae

In the '80s, I read all the Seth books by Jane Roberts. I was fascinated with the material. About two years ago, I read some Abraham books by Esther Hicks. Also fascinating material. About a month ago, I started listening to the audio book, "The Master Key System," by Charles Hannel--the updated version for the 21st century (narrated by James Boles). I've listened to it many times now. It, too, was fascinating.

These three groups of books offer the same inspiring and brilliant philosophy: you form your own reality with your beliefs. It would seem that Hannel came first, in the early 20th century. The Seth Material books came later, in the early 1960s. Finally, the Abraham books arrived on the scene well after that. I seem to recall that the Abraham material gave "credit" or mention of the Seth books, and possibly the Hannel books (I'd have to double check on that). I don't recall that the Seth books gave any credit or mention of the Hannel material.

Thank you for your excellent post. I appreciate how you discriminate between the three authors. I am not familiar with Charles Haanel. I obtained his book and will read it. I am anxious to see if there is what I call, “original work.” Are there any ideas which strike you as “original.”

Obviously, unlike Seth and Abraham, Mr. Haanel, according to Wikipedia, is a “person,”--the kind who has a birth and death certificate and was not channeled at the time. I see that he was a Rosicrucian, and I recognized some Rosicrucian principals in a brief review of his book. Having completed their course over many years, I can say that the Rosicrucian’s don’t like their work product being quoted so I would not expect them to be mentioned. Even though they give you monographs to study they retain ownership of them.

You made me realize that I hold a prejudice, perhaps, against authors who have bodies. Unless, of course, it is Plato, Aristotle or someone like that. Whether or not I should, I often question the motives of the living. Jerry Hicks, for example, said that Napoleon Hill’s book, “Think and Grow Rich,” was abridged by the publisher who took out any reference to “vibrations” because they thought the book would be less marketable if left in. I finally got an unabridged copy and found Jerry was correct. I always thought something was missing from the book that I first read.

As for Abraham, and Elias, for that matter, I consider them to be “Seth Lite” and lacking an “action-intention element” which Seth seems to convey. Obviously, the material covered by Seth is far broader and done so with much greater detail than Abraham. Still, I enjoy the Abraham material very much.

[iraro]

Originally Posted by guthrio

Very simply: You want something, you dwell upon it consciously for a while, you consciously imagine it coming to the forefront of probabilities, closer to your actuality. Then you drop it like a pebble into Framework 2, forget about it as much as possible for a fortnight, and do this in a certain rhythm."

I read this passage, p.183, hoping for clarification but found none. Seth does not explain this "certain rhythm" he alludes to.

I personally have always found it difficult to find a subject that I am so interested in that I actually do the exercise he mentions but then become sufficiently uninterested to "forget about it as much as possible for a forthnight." If I can forget about it for 2-weeks it's probably not very important to me.

[jameskinkade]

Hi Balbrae,

I was a massive fan of Haanel for a long time around 18 months ago and I had been following his instructions daily for about two weeks. At this time I had a significant number of '11:11' moments including waking up three days in a row at 11:11 a.m, sitting down randomly at a table numbered 11 and constantly seeing the numbers on digital readouts. A few weeks later my life changed dramatically and I had to move house, and it really caused an upheaval in my family life for over a year. In the long run I think it worked out ok, and I have my own personal interpretation of that period in my life.

I'm not sure why I mention it, but that was the last time I actually followed his instructions for a long time. I also had one very vivid out of body experience during those MKS times. You've inspired me to start out again with Haanel

[Balbrae]

Guthrio, thank you for your very informed and enthusiastic post. You have refreshed my recollection of how Seth professed. I do recall the passage, where Seth advised those using the power of thought and imaging not to worry--which would cause harmful manifestations. Recall Seth's daring and possibly offensive statement that many women cause breast cancer by feeling their breasts for signs of cancer, all the while holding fear in their mind. He talked about fear-based manifestations quite a bit, actually. So thanks for bringing that point home. As to your other points concerning manifestation and the unified nature of our collective soul, I enjoyed them and will add the Spalding and Holmes & Smith materials you reference to my reading list! It reminds me of Seth's teachings on "the individual and the nature of mass events." Manifestation makes sense as you describe for the reasons you state: we're really all one. Thanks for your keen observations.

[Balbrae]

Originally Posted by iraro

Obviously, unlike Seth and Abraham, Mr. Haanel, according to Wikipedia, is a “person,”--the kind who has a birth and death certificate and was not channeled at the time. I see that he was a Rosicrucian, and I recognized some Rosicrucian principals in a brief review of his book. Having completed their course over many years, I can say that the Rosicrucian’s don’t like their work product being quoted so I would not expect them to be mentioned. Even though they give you monographs to study they retain ownership of them.

You made me realize that I hold a prejudice, perhaps, against authors who have bodies. Unless, of course, it is Plato, Aristotle or someone like that. Whether or not I should, I often question the motives of the living. Jerry Hicks, for example, said that Napoleon Hill’s book, “Think and Grow Rich,” was abridged by the publisher who took out any reference to “vibrations” because they thought the book would be less marketable if left in. I finally got an unabridged copy and found Jerry was correct. I always thought something was missing from the book that I first read.

As for Abraham, and Elias, for that matter, I consider them to be “Seth Lite” and lacking an “action-intention element” which Seth seems to convey. Obviously, the material covered by Seth is far broader and done so with much greater detail than Abraham. Still, I enjoy the Abraham material very much.

Hi, Iraro. Thanks for expanding my knowledge on these points. I never heard of Rosicrucians. I'll have to look into their belief system to see how heavily Hannel's world view draws from it. As for your skeptical bias against living teachers, I hear your concern a lot. I might be in the minority here, but I tend to go easy on the likes of Esther and Jerry Hicks. The living have to make a living, and bless them if they can do so helping others with such an uplifting message. I recall your point about Jerry Hicks' claim that "The Power of Positive Thinking" book was toned down, to avoid sounding too far out there. It's cool that you confirmed the point by obtaining an earlier printing of that material.

Perhaps you could help me better understand what you mean when you discuss Abraham's lack of action-intention element. But that is a funny point about someone being "Seth Lite" because Seth is so heavy that everyone is "Seth Lite", by comparison.

One caveat about the Hannel book that so moved me: it was the version subtitled: "Updated for the 21st century." The version you obtained might be the original version, which would not have the passing references to modern scientific advances that corroborate the Hannel message. Hopefully, you'll share your take on Hannel when you finish your book. Thanks again for your insightful post.

[Balbrae]

Originally Posted by jameskinkade

Hi Balbrae,

I was a massive fan of Haanel for a long time around 18 months ago and I had been following his instructions daily for about two weeks. At this time I had a significant number of '11:11' moments including waking up three days in a row at 11:11 a.m, sitting down randomly at a table numbered 11 and constantly seeing the numbers on digital readouts. A few weeks later my life changed dramatically and I had to move house, and it really caused an upheaval in my family life for over a year. In the long run I think it worked out ok, and I have my own personal interpretation of that period in my life.

I'm not sure why I mention it, but that was the last time I actually followed his instructions for a long time. I also had one very vivid out of body experience during those MKS time_s. You've inspired me to start out again with Haanel

Hi, James. I've heard that point before about seeing certain numbers or times flashing like on a clock. There is a talk radio program called Coast To Coast AM Radio Show, and callers have shared their similar points about that phenomenon. It probably means you heightened your spiritual awareness. Let me know if you like re-reading Hannel. Try the updated version if you can; it might speak to you in a more modern sense. Thanks again.

[iraro]

Originally Posted by Balbrae

Hi, Iraro. Thanks for expanding my knowledge on these points. I never heard of Rosicrucians. I'll have to look into their belief system to see how heavily Hannel's world view draws from it. As for your skeptical bias against living teachers, I hear your concern a lot. I might be in the minority here, but I tend to go easy on the likes of Esther and Jerry Hicks. The living have to make a living, and bless them if they can do so helping others with such an uplifting message. I recall your point about Jerry Hicks' claim that "The Power of Positive Thinking" book was toned down, to avoid sounding too far out there. It's cool that you confirmed the point by obtaining an earlier printing of that material.

Perhaps you could help me better understand what you mean when you discuss Abraham's lack of action-intention element. But that is a funny point about someone being "Seth Lite" because Seth is so heavy that everyone is "Seth Lite", by comparison.

One caveat about the Hannel book that so moved me: it was the version subtitled: "Updated for the 21st century." The version you obtained might be the original version, which would not have the passing references to modern scientific advances that corroborate the Hannel message. Hopefully, you'll share your take on Hannel when you finish your book. Thanks again for your insightful post.

Thank you for introducing me to Charles Haanel. He is lot easier to get information about than I believe are the Rosicrucians. Be forewarned that the Rosicrucians are sometimes included among those who are identified to be in the cabal advancing the New World Order. The cabal is real, but modern Rosicrucians are not a part of it.

I started Haanel’s book yesterday after reading what I could find on the web, including the Amazon Book reviews. Reviewers warn about various copies floating around. The book I have is 240-pages. Apparently, the book was originally a 24-week correspondence course with two “monographs,” (my term) sent out every two weeks with the instruction to re-read the monograph everyday for the designated week (which makes me curious about the audio version). This is a page out of the Rosicrucian handbook. It is not necessarily a bad thing because focusing on a small amount of material for an entire week allows one to implant the material in a way that mere reading does not. It is slow “sledding” (I am grateful that Seth did not disseminate his material the same way).

I joined the Rosicrucians in 1974 and did not finish until approximately 40-years later. I did on a couple occasions stop my monographs because my schedule did not permit continued study, but I’m sure it took over 20-years to complete the study I am no longer an “active” member because I finished all of the monographs. Of course they own the monographs. You are not permitted to lend the monographs out or share them with anybody unless it is your spouse who is a dues-paying companion member. They send you four monographs a month as long as you are an active, dues-paying member. I think annual dues were about $400 a year when I stopped paying dues.

As for my prejudice against “people,” as spiritual gurus, the Rosicrucian’s did not mitigate my prejudice. Several years ago there was an “in-house” scandal when the Grand “Pupa,” an advanced student, allegedly embezzled several hundred thousand dollars times two. What does it “say” about the Rosicrucian principals when a Master of the Universal principals, is bereft of alternatives, abandons those Rosicrucian principals and takes the “hard” road. Contrary to what others might say, I say, “embezzlement” is the “hard” road.

The Grand “pupa’s” actions say nothing about Rosicrucian principles, in my opinion. I separate the message from the messenger. I do so with the Rosicrucians, Jane Roberts and Jerry and Ester, Edgar Cayce, etc. I do not “deify” them. Thus, I do not “hold it against” channels because they seem unable to benefit fully from the information they channel. I do not hold it against Jane Roberts because she apparently died “young.” Nor do I hold it against Jerry because allegedly he has cancer, and is apparently treating it with conventional allopathic therapies. Ester struggles with applying the Abrahamic principles. Jerry exhibits the human traits evident in his background of being a smart businessman who likes performing for an audience. They are all merely “human” which is why I prefer my guru’s to be without bodies.

As for the “action-intent element,” here is part of a conversation I had about manifesting a vehicle:

[So, while I may not have known how the cash would get into my account when I made the decision (intent) to buy a vehicle, I watched it go in and I know exactly how it got there by the time I wrote the check.

This seems straightforward. However, there is something going on “behind the scene.” I am engaged in “actions,” the type of which, in the past, has resulted in sums being deposited into my checking account. This results in feedback which tells me I’m on track.

I did not rely on the “Abrahamic approach,” which apparently, could be “laying on the couch, eating ‘bon-bon's’ and waiting (no 'f'eedback') for my vehicle to manifest thru my alignment with Source (which, they say, IS the ‘work’ or the ‘action’ in my terms).” I am not saying it won’t work.”]

The foregoing has never worked for me and I have never seen it work without some sort of “behind the scene” work. Presumably, if my vehicle “manifested” there would be a forensic chain, once it arrived. For example, if I purchased a raffle ticket where the prize was a new vehicle, and I won it, then I would consider “buying the ticket” to be action. If I received a check from the estate of a long lost relative who died and used it to by the vehicle, that would be so unlikely that it would be “Abrahamic,” and that’s as close to magic as I get.

[iraro]

Originally Posted by iraro

Thank you for introducing me to Charles Haanel. He is lot easier to get information about than I believe are the Rosicrucians.

I started Haanel’s book yesterday after reading what I could find on the web, including the Amazon Book reviews. Reviewers warn about various copies floating around.

As for my prejudice against “people,” as spiritual gurus, the Rosicrucian’s did not mitigate my prejudice. Several years ago there was an “in-house” scandal when the Grand “Pupa,” an advanced student, allegedly embezzled several hundred thousand dollars times two. What does it “say” about the Rosicrucian principals when a Master of the Universal principals, is bereft of alternatives, abandons those Rosicrucian principals and takes the “hard” road. Contrary to what others might say, I say, “embezzlement” is the “hard” road.

The Grand “pupa’s” actions say nothing about Rosicrucian principles, in my opinion. I separate the message from the messenger. I do so with the Rosicrucians, Jane Roberts and Jerry and Ester, Edgar Cayce, etc. I do not “deify” them. Thus, I do not “hold it against” channels because they seem unable to benefit fully from the information they channel. I do not hold it against Jane Roberts because she apparently died “young.” Nor do I hold it against Jerry because allegedly he has cancer, and is apparently treating it with conventional allopathic therapies. Ester struggles with applying the Abrahamic principles. Jerry exhibits the human traits evident in his background of being a smart businessman who likes performing for an audience. They are all merely “human” which is why I prefer my guru’s to be without bodies.

I zipped thru 9 chapters, 9-weeks of Mr. Haanels book. I saw nothing so profound that it required a week's study for each chapter. Nor did I find the exercises anything but fairly common today for anyone experienced in mediation or esoteric matters.

While the language is a bit arcane, and that is okay, I find the book more like a college pep rally before the big game than a serious work. That does not mean it is not useful.

He does not "source" his ideas. And, even the web site which purports to be about him, says, to the effect, "these are not original ideas" in the book.

As I said before, when one is mortal I wish to know where one got their ideas from.

The web site goes on to suggests what they think may be "sources" for his beliefs, and note that he was a "marketing genius."

[Balbrae]

Originally Posted by iraro

I zipped thru 9 chapters, 9-weeks of Mr. Haanels book. I saw nothing so profound that it required a week's study for each chapter. Nor did I find the exercises anything but fairly common today for anyone experienced in mediation or esoteric matters.

While the language is a bit arcane, and that is okay, I find the book more like a college pep rally before the big game than a serious work. That does not mean it is not useful.

He does not "source" his ideas. And, even the web site which purports to be about him, says, to the effect, "these are not original ideas" in the book.

As I said before, when one is mortal I wish to know where one got their ideas from.

The web site goes on to suggests what they think may be "sources" for his beliefs, and note that he was a "marketing genius."

Thanks for your assessment. As I stated at the outset of this thread, the version I listened to was: (1) an audiobook; and (2) an updated version reflecting modern scientific advances that rounded out the material. I found it refreshing and useful. I listened to no more than three chapters in one sitting. This forced me to listen many times before moving on to the next chapters. I think the "serial" method of input by hearing improved the discourse. I also liked the narrator. But by no means is the material as detailed or entertaining as Seth books. However, it's definitely a keeper to listen to on long drives.

[arpee]

Very strange that people are saying that Abraham doesn't encourage action. Their whole thing is explained by "the vortex" which is another way of saying "be in a state of happiness"....


They say, get in the vortex and THEN you will have inspired action, they never encouraged not taking.

They say that they never want to motivate, they want to inspire, and this is how our action should be. They want us to do things because it feels good which is inspiration, not because we are trying to escape something, which is motivation.

[Balbrae]

Originally Posted by arpee

Very strange that people are saying that Abraham doesn't encourage action. Their whole thing is explained by "the vortex" which is another way of saying "be in a state of happiness"....


They say, get in the vortex and THEN you will have inspired action, they never encouraged not taking.

They say that they never want to motivate, they want to inspire, and this is how our action should be. They want us to do things because it feels good which is inspiration, not because we are trying to escape something, which is motivation.

Hi, Arpee: I hope I haven't suggested that Abraham's take on the LOA doesn't encourage action. I have listened to other audios from Abraham-Hicks where your statement of taking some action to manifest results ("getting into the vortex") is further supported. For example one entire presentation dealt with the metaphor of "paddling downstream," as opposed to fighting the flow upstream. I think the metaphor here of paddling downstream is a good one for conjuring upp an image of our two-part poise under the LOA: (1) take some general action toward your destiny by paddling; and (2) go with the flow and let the results appear in the unfolding of your movement. So you raise a good point.

[iraro]

Originally Posted by Balbrae

Hi, Arpee: I hope I haven't suggested that Abraham's take on the LOA doesn't encourage action. I have listened to other audios from Abraham-Hicks where your statement of taking some action to manifest results ("getting into the vortex") is further supported. For example one entire presentation dealt with the metaphor of "paddling downstream," as opposed to fighting the flow upstream. I think the metaphor here of paddling downstream is a good one for conjuring upp an image of our two-part poise under the LOA: (1) take some general action toward your destiny by paddling; and (2) go with the flow and let the results appear in the unfolding of your movement. So you raise a good point.

Abraham seems to have a different definition of "action" than I use. I’m listening to Abraham’s 9-24-11 presentation in Washington DC. He talks about the need to “conjure” the feeling, and basically “allow.” Manifestation then emanates from this feeling in its own time. He calls the “feeling” of desire a manifestation.

Whether it is Abraham’s message or his delivery and use of various metaphors over the years, there appears to me to be conflicts, or a change in the message. Some might call this an “evolution” in the delivery or message, but I call it confusing.

Don’t you remember when the message was "anti-action," my term, and was to the effect, “You ask, the Universe grants, now get out of the way and “allow” it to manifest. The metaphor was the “river stream” and the objective was to “let go of the oars, go with the flow and stop “trying” because “trying” meant you were padding upstream.

Then came “the Vortex.” They said, "One in the Vortex has a million times more power than one outside the Vortex." People sat in the “hot seat” and proclaimed, like at a revival, that they had been in the Vortex, described how it felt and Abraham described how to get there by inching up the scale of emotions. It was about feeling good and choosing the thought that made you feel better.

I’ve felt good, but I never felt “a million times” more powerful--I would not forget that feeling. So I ask myself, "was I really in the Vortex?" Was anyone? None of those people in the “hot seat,” claiming to have been in the Vortex, looked to me as if they had ever felt “a million times more powerful” than someone outside the Vortex. I don't know about them, but if I could get on that drug, I’d never get off.

In fact, Abraham would say, “everything you want is to make you feel better,” implying that once you got into the Vortex that you were feeling so good, you no longer cared about what you initially wanted. Sounds like a drug, doesn't it

“Manifestation” at one time was defined, by Abraham, as the creation of physical objects or events outside oneself. Now, if you change or improve how you feel internally Abraham is calling that a manifestation. Many people on this forum define manifestation as the former, rather than the latter, and would not consider merely a change by themselves of their own feelings to be the kind of a manifestation they seek; they want to create objects and events in their life. If they can improve how they feel by eating ice cream, is that a manifestation? Abraham now implies it is.

[guthrio]

Originally Posted by iraro

I read this passage, p.183, hoping for clarification but found none. Seth does not explain this "certain rhythm" he alludes to.

I personally have always found it difficult to find a subject that I am so interested in that I actually do the exercise he mentions but then become sufficiently uninterested to "forget about it as much as possible for a forthnight." If I can forget about it for 2-weeks it's probably not very important to me.

Hi Iraro, For a long time, I, too was puzzled by what the "certain rythym" is supposed to be. However if you consider the reference to "dropping it like a pebble" into Framework 2, then the "forgetting about it for a fortnight" part would be like letting your intentions ripple out....so that the actual manifestion of your desire from Framework 2 returns to you....but is not impeded by "crosscurrents" of doubt...like the waves generated by "having second thoughts" about the original desire (i.e. wave) you sent out in the first place!.

I also think "forgetting about it for a fortnight" doesn't really have anything to do with the amount of time you do so. Why ? Because if you don't have a fortnight to wait for the results, what's the use in forgetting about it for that duration?

After clearly imagining your desire "...coming to the forefront of probabilities, closer to your actuality", the most important part of any visualization is to accept that it's ours....NOW.....and "let" ALL OF CREATION create the experience OF us becoming our desire. As indicated in the 2nd reference, "In the last analysis there is but one treatment given for anything that is desired. That treatment consists in convincing the mind that the thing desired is already accomplished...."

KNOWING that your desire is already accomplished (in Framework 2), then you'll also KNOW that your desire MUST return to you in Framework 1 without fail....because waves have no other place to return except to their point of origin. We're supposed to concentrate on the manifestation of desire ALREADY BEING here, not on when it's supposed to get here, right?

All we have to do is remain "rock" steady (pun intended!) in our knowledge (and correct application of) of the Law of Attraction... which CANNOT fail.

How do I know it cannot fail?

Because "like attracts like" just as certainly, just as impartially, and just as unavoidably as "lack attracts lack"

....based entirely upon what YOU choose....to send out.

Hope this helps....

Source(s):
Life and Teaching of the Masters of the Far East
Volumes 1 - 6 by Baird T. Spalding

Questions and Answers on the Science of Mind
by Ernest Holmes & Alberta Smith

[iraro]

Originally Posted by guthrio

the most important part of any visualization is to accept that it's ours....NOW.....and "let" ALL OF CREATION create the experience OF us becoming our desire.

I think you hit the nail right on its head with this comment. I think it is, along with the "absence of doubt," the most critical component in effecting the manifestation of objects and events. These are factors, I think, that are often not given their due consideration in the process.

Now, my next question is, "what is the role of effective practical action, where it can be applied?" Does it impede the result sought? Seth apparently thinks so or he wouldn't suggest one "forget about it."

Seth is not unique in this regard, because, for example, both Gregg Braden, in his "Lost Mode of Prayer," and Rosicrucians say the same thing--that is, at the end of the process to "forget about it." However, their examples are more like "petitions to the Universe," so to speak, like the "Indian Rain Dance," which are not conducive to being supplemented with practical action.

[guthrio]

Originally Posted by iraro

Now, my next question is, "what is the role of effective practical action, where it can be applied?" Does it impede the result sought? Seth apparently thinks so or he wouldn't suggest one "forget about it."

Iraro, allow me to provide Thomas Troward's excellent, and most practical answer to both questions in the following excerpt from the source, below. I believe you will be very pleased to ascertain that the only thing more practical than following this advice....is doing it again....and again.....and.....yet again!:

".....we shall not think of our purpose as contingent on any conditions whatever, but shall know that by forming the idea of it in the absolute, and maintaining that idea, we have shaped the first cause into the desired form and can await the result with cheerful expectancy.

It is here that we find the importance of realizing spirit's independence of time and space. An ideal, as such, cannot be formed in the future. It must either be formed here and now or not be formed at all; and it is for this reason that every teacher, who has ever spoken with due knowledge of the subject, has impressed upon his followers the necessity of picturing to themselves the fulfilment of their desires as already accomplished on the spiritual plane, as the indispensable condition of fulfilment in the visible and concrete.

When this is properly understood, any anxious thought as to the means to be employed in the accomplishment of our purposes is seen to be quite unnecessary. If the end is already secured, then it follows that all the steps leading to it are secured also. The means will pass into the smaller circle of our conscious activities day by day in due order, and then we have to work upon them, not with fear, doubt, or feverish excitement, but calmly and joyously, because we know that the end is already secured, and that our reasonable use of such means as present themselves in the desired direction is only one portion of a much larger co-ordinated movement, the final result of which admits of no doubt. Mental Science does not offer a premium to idleness, but it takes all work out of the region of anxiety and toil by assuring the worker of the success of his labour, if not in the precise form he anticipated, then in some other still better suited to his requirements. But suppose, when we reach a point where some momentous decision has to be made, we happen to decide wrongly? On the hypothesis that the end is already secured you cannot decide wrongly. Your right decision is as much one of the necessary steps in the accomplishment of the end as any of the other conditions leading up to it, and therefore, while being careful to avoid rash action, we may make sure that the same Law which is controlling the rest of the circumstances in the right direction will influence our judgment in that direction also. To get good results we must properly understand our relation to the great impersonal power we are using. It is intelligent and we are intelligent, and the two intelligencies must co-operate. We must not fly in the face of the Law by expecting it to do for us what it can only do through us; and we must therefore use our intelligence with the knowledge that it is acting as the instrument of a greater intelligence; and because we have this knowledge we may, and should, cease from all anxiety as to the final result. In actual practice we must first form the ideal conception of our object with the definite intention of impressing it upon the universal mind -- it is this intention which takes such thought out of the region of mere casual fancies -- and then affirm that our knowledge of the Law is sufficient reason for a calm expectation of a corresponding result, and that therefore all necessary conditions will come to us in due order. We can then turn to the affairs of our daily life with the calm assurance that the initial conditions are either there already or will soon come into view. If we do not at once see them, let us rest content with the knowledge that the spiritual prototype is already in existence and wait till some circumstance pointing in the desired direction begins to show itself.

It may be a very small circumstance, but it is the direction and not the magnitude which is to be taken into consideration. As soon as we see it we should regard it as the first sprouting of the seed we have sown in the Absolute, and do calmly, and without excitement, whatever the circumstances may seem to require, and then later on we shall see that this doing will in turn lead to further circumstances in the same direction until we find ourselves conducted step by step to the accomplishment of our object. In this way the understanding of the great principle of the Law of Supply will, by repeated experiences, deliver us more and more completely out of the region of anxious thought and toilsome labour and bring us into a new world where the useful employment of all our powers, whether mental or physical, will only be an unfolding of our individuality upon the lines of its own nature, and therefore a perpetual source of health and happiness; a sufficient inducement, surely, to the careful study of the laws governing the relation between the individual and the Universal Mind. "

....don't you think? (and no Rain Dances required!)

Source(s)
Chapter 10, entitled "Causes and Conditions" from Thomas Troward's, The Edinburgh Lectures on Mental Science".

[iraro]

Originally Posted by guthrio

... a sufficient inducement, surely, to the careful study of the laws governing the relation between the individual and the Universal Mind. "

....don't you think? (and no Rain Dances required!)

Source(s)
Chapter 10, entitled "Causes and Conditions" from Thomas Troward's, The Edinburgh Lectures on Mental Science".

A great piece...I couldn't agree more. Makes you wonder why more people are not doing a "careful study."