Detachment or Desire?

[RT Wolf]

Hey everyone,

I'm experimenting with IM right now and I've read Ask and It is Given as well as 7 Laws of Spiritual Success. Both 7 Laws and The Sedona Method are about detachment from the result, the manifestation. The Law of Detachment, and Hale Dwoskin says, "Would you rather want to have it or have it?"

While Ask and It is Given talks about desire, and says that the longer you've wanted something or the more energy/emotion you put towards it, the faster it will manifest. There was a thread about The Work and LoA here. And I've read it, and even contributed, but I'm still a little confused.

If you have some examples, that'll be helpful. How do both of these feel different? Is Hicks-Abraham talking about desire without attachment? What does that feel like? There seems to be little "emotion" when I desire something without attachment.

Is there a way to reconcile these ideas? For one thing, which manifests better, detachment or strong desire? I've had more success manifesting with detachment than strong desire, cause I think I mix the desire up with the feeling of lack of not having it now.

I will keep experimenting with this stuff. Thanks in advance.

[absvan]

You should have a strong desire but not to the point where you get frustrated when it does not show up on time. The desire should keep you excited about life but at the same time detachment will help you stay relaxed and focused on your day to day activites rather than looking for results and wondering when your prayers will be answered. As you have mentioned, if you dont practice detachment then you will bring up the feeling of lack and not having it now.

I like to quote Wayne Dyer when it comes to detachment. Check this out
Success.com : Infinite Patience Produces Immediate Results

Hope that helps.

[torilink]

For me, the desire is the inspiration for my decision/intention. This is what drives my intention. My intention is what it is - there is definate emotion attached to it, but there isn't any longing or need, just anticipation.

It is my experience that it isn't "letting go of the outcome" because with a true intention, you know the exact outcome you desire - it is more a letting go, after you've asked, to the need to ask over and over again. Like a child that asks for a cookie every two seconds when their mother has already said they can have a cookie in 5 minutes.

I think what you should try to avoid are all feelings or thoughts of LACK in association with your desires and intentions. That feeling of want and longing is what blocks the manifestation.

Example: I am hungry and desire to eat chinese food for dinner - I call and tell them what I want give them my info and then I hang up. After making the call, I don't call back every two minutes and change the order, Nor do I keep calling and checking on the progress of the order....
I ordered what I desired, I trust they are preparing exactly what I want, and I am doing other things until it arrives - but....I know it is coming and I am anticipating the enjoyment of eating it.

hope this example makes sense - it sounded better in my mind before I actually wrote it down. LOL

[Tempest]

What I've come to understand is this: when you are attatched to your desire, you feel bad. There's the impatience, the looking around for it, the fear and all the other nasty little buggers that make one sick inside. When one is dettatched, that person can think of their desire and he or she feels bliss, and the infiniate knowledge that it is on their way. All emotions felt are positive and feeling those strong positive feelings towards one's desires speeds it along. Negative feelings puts resistance in the way of the desire, thus hindering its manifestation.

[Acting Like Godot]

Oh it's quite simple.

There are two kinds of detachment:

(1) Where you simply have no desire. Eg you are not a soccer fan and you do not care at all which team wins the next league match. Thus you are completely detached from the outcome of the game. You are totally indifferent.

(2) Where you have a desire, and you completely, utterly, absolutely believe that it will come true. Since your belief is so strong, you are able to detach from your desire. After all, you already know that it will come true.

The detachment described in (1) is irrelevant in our usual LOA context.

The detachment described in (2) is very relevant to our usual LOA context. Because all versions of LOA tell you that the more strongly you believe, the more powerful your manifestation.

When Jesus healed the blind, he probably just said, "Open your eyes. By the power of God, you see again." And so it happened, just like that.

He probably didn't say, "I really desire that you can see again ... Oh, come on, come on ... I know I can do this ... God is with me, I gotta remember that ... I really want to do this ... my intention is strong, I really desire this to happen ... I feel good, I feel good ... okay, let's try it .... open your eyes now!"

Instead, Jesus demonstrates detachment, as a result of his utter faith. He already strongly believes that he can heal the blind just like that. Thus he is detached from the outcome, because in effect he already KNOWS that he can make it happen.

Detachment in this form, is basically an elevated form of positive belief.

Of course, if you can't reach that stage, you'll just have to work with basic strong desire.

[RT Wolf]

Thank you everyone for posting.

I found most of the answer to my dillema in the threads in the "Similar Threads" thing at the bottom there.

I was confusing indifference with detachment. Detachment is not indifference. There is sitll a preference for one thing over another. Eventually, though, in terms of the buddhist traditiosn, it seems that in pursuing spiritual development I might want to transcend my desires completely, which is something I read ALG saying. The key is not to get too attached to what you want, which is a mistake I was making in understanding the Law of Detachment from Deepak Chopra. He said that in the first paragraph of that chapter. Here:

The Law Of Detachment

With that understanding of detachment towards results, its easier to manifest. That's similar to my experience with public speaking. When I cared about the results too much, I would get nervous and wrory. But I remember one time when I was just too tired to care about what happened and just tried my best without any attachment to results, I did one of my finest presentations ever (at least in terms of marks).

So this state of detachment, and not indifference, is the number 2 state that ALG talks about. Thanks!

I think I'm starting to understand this a lot more now and it'll take a bit more thinking and reading (especially Deepak Chopra and Ask and It is Given) before I understand it tptally. Again, thank you everyone for replying and helping me understand this better.

[RT Wolf]

I've spent a bit more time thinking about it and I thought I would share my findings here in case anyone else found them useful.

There are indeed two kinds of detachment, as ALG said. The first one appears to be in the buddhist tradition, which basically says one should not have any desires/preferences because desires are the cause of human suffering, if I recall this correctly. I was into this stuff for a while but I eventually realized that I am not ready for this state just yet. I want to have many different experiences before I am willing to commit to that level of spirituality. But, I figure if I keep growing I'll get here at the right time for me, if it is the true path for me.

The second kind of detachment has certain qualities:

1. You aren't attached to the outcome, and that makes it easier for you to be totally committed to it and believe completely it will occur. I know that sounds paradoxical but I think that that is the causal chain which everyone here is referring to, you become detached from the outcome then you can totally believe it. Its not that you don't care if your intention does not manifest, you still have a preference, but its not a desire in the traditional sense.

2. There isn't a strong desire in the traditional sense, because a strong desire in the traditional sense includes a sense of lack--that of not having it now. The kind of desire that Abraham-Hicks talks about here:

"We would describe the sensation of desire as the delicious awareness of new possibilities. Desire is a fresh, free feeling of anticipating wonderful expansion. The feeling of desire is truly the feeling of life flowing through you. But many people, while they are using the word desire, feel something quite different. Desire, for them, often feels like yearning, for while they are focused upon something that they want to experience or have, they are equally aware of its absence. And so, while they are using words of desire, they are offering a vibration of lack. They come to think that the feeling of desire is like wanting something that they do not have. But there is no feeling of lack in pure desire." -Beginning of Chap 22 in Ask And It is Given

3. This correlates with my experience, where it was easiest for me to manifest when I wanted something to be a certain way but it was ok for things to be different. I also think I've had an experience where I wanted something and had the absolute certainty that I will get it, one way or another.

I still have to go a bit of a way to understanding what kinds of emotions/energy manifest best, but for right now, I'm willing to go on with my work with The Sedona Method. When the sedona method suggests to release on my wants, I'm not giving up the preference of that thing, I am just giving up my desire which includes a feeling of lack, allowing me to manifest easier. Interesting.

[JJH]

Great post RT Wolf,

I struggled with the same thing for a while, and couldn't reconsile the paradox, until I realized there was no paradox. Like so many spiritual truths, the two sides - became one.

I totally agree with your conclusions, but would like to add one thing. It's basically the same, but a slightly different way of looking at it.

I still set my intentions and charge them with emotion, but now, as you suggest, I apply non-attachment to the outcome of that preference. I now use the preference or intention or goal, as a direction only - and focus on the present moment.

When one is fully present in the Now, one is able to draw on a remarkable power that speeds the manifestation of ones intentions. Set your intentions, set 'em high, allow the appropriate emotional charge to flow into them and then get busy in the now. Forget about the outcome, and let those emotions flow into your doing, and not only will your goal be more likely to manifest (that, or something better), it will do so while you are experiencing joy and bliss, in whatever it is you are doing (and that doesn't mean necessarily working on something directly related to that intention).

joyful manifesting to you!

[RT Wolf]

Yar! Gravedigger alert!

I've spent a bunch more time thinking about this and my conclusion is now ridiculously simple. A very important key/part of IM is to:

Let go and trust.

Different people express it differently. Chopra says to let go and trust in the wisdom of uncertainty. Others above have essentially said that one has to let go and trust that it is coming to you. Trust that it will manifest. Believe and trust are synonyms in this case, although I like trust better.

Thank you all very much. Sometimes ideas have to be presented in a particular way for me to get it.

Some more info here:
Universe Of Success » Archives » Let Go and Trust

Another thing I'm realizing and is helping me is to be more playful. Life's a game and I'm just trying out a new way to play. It'll all turn out ok.

Happy manifesting!

[impaul99]

I'd like to add something when trying to attract money.

Here's what the feeling of detachment should feel like.

You know when you work at a job (lets say you've been there for 5 years), and you get paid on the last of the month? Ok, well, think about how you feel coming into work every day, doing "work", being productive, etc. but at the end of the day you don't get paid. You work a solid day, and then on your way out the door the boss says "bye!" and you go home, without getting paid! Why don't you freak out?! Because, you know that on the 30th you'll get paid. You are *certain* that you'll get paid.

Now imagine working on a contract, and once the work is done you'll get paid. You can feel *certain* about that, right? You know once YOU get work a,b,c,d,e done, you'll get your paycheck. Easy to stay certain right?

Now imagine working on a contract, except that you work for a super rich person who really likes you and is willing to pay you almost any amount for the work you're doing for them, as long as YOU feel you've earned that much.

Now imagine that this "super rich person" is the universe, and it will pay you anything you ask of it, as long as YOU believe you've earned it (meaning, you'll only get what YOU feel good getting).

It's kind of like that. You have to stretch your trust from one to the next to the next until you can "PLAY" in this game of life, participating in the dance of the universe, KNOWING, having a feeling of CERTAINTY that you wil get whatever you need, without being attached to it.

As ALG said, you only grow attached to ALG if you don't think you'll get it.

Don't try to stop your desires. Desire makes the universe grow. Just stay away from FEAR OF NOT GETTING what you desire. THat's the negative energy that will keep you from getting it.

[RT Wolf]

Thanks for the excellent (and synchronistically relevant) post, Paul.

Meaning I attract money based on how much value I feel I'm putting out? I thought value was in the eyes of the beholder, but perhaps that is not the most useful belief.
Or is the more that i get paid how much i feel i'm worth as a person rather than really the value i create in the eyes of those who use the value?

[impaul99]

Originally Posted by RT Wolf

Thanks for the excellent (and synchronistically relevant) post, Paul.

Meaning I attract money based on how much value I feel I'm putting out? I thought value was in the eyes of the beholder, but perhaps that is not the most useful belief.
Or is the more that i get paid how much i feel i'm worth as a person rather than really the value i create in the eyes of those who use the value?

I have been struggling with this myself lately and finally found a solution.

I used to think that to be successful financially one needs to provide tremendous value. So I did really valuable things but wasn't too impressed with the results.

Then I was informed that it's the value as perceived by the person who's receiving the value. THat worked ok for a while too, but just didn't explain some situations.

Then, just recently I realized that value means nothing. You get what you EXPECT and BELIEVE YOU DESERVE. It is only our belief that we must provide value that creates that reality.

The REAL reality is that neither WE nor the OTHER PERSON or PERSONS receiving the "value" we produce has any way of actually judging the value of that value, if that makes any sense to you. The only entity that knows the true value of something is the "universe" / "God" or whatever you want to call it. For example, I might think that this post telling you this might be worth $1, and you might read it and you might think it's so cool that you think it's worth at least $10 to you, so by "normal rules" we would take a guess that I might get somewhere between $1-$10 worth of value from this post at some point in my life. However, some kid could logon to this forum, and read this post and my words could have such a giant change in his thinking that 6 months from now he creates a project that becomes the next Google or Facebook, or something greater.

It's not an easy concept to explain, but I finally feel so much more free having figured this out. It's all about our beliefs.

[RT Wolf]

Alright, so do I figure out what I expect and believe I deserve? And how can I change that?

For example, right now I'm starting to feel I deserve more money than I am currently earning, for my ability to learn quickly and grow massively, alone. There's a good reason for this, though. Do I need reasons? How does one change any belief? This one seems to be tied to self-esteem as well.

Acting Like Godot, if you're still around, is this the way you've used to improve your income so rapidly?

[decterlove]

Your question is really at the dead center heart of the whole LOA debate and I thank you for stating it so clearly! I'm a little jealous as I pride myself on getting to the real essence of things but I've been unable to keep it so simple despite years of thinking about it.

I've been disappointed many times when I've "vibed" something up aka the late Lynn Grabhorn. I've gotten into these very good feeling states and focused exactly on what I wanted, expected to get it and ultimately the whole thing collapses on me. HOWEVER, I have noticed when I am in that great feeling state that little things manifest well constantly throughout the day....just not necessarily the end result I am seeking.

On the other hand, there have been many times when I've had just a marginal desire, barely thinking about something, totally detached/accepting and BAM, the Universe just slathers me with good fortune! I do live snake shows for kids and have been working with a rather small collection of animals for the past year (8 snakes~which sounds a lot but sometimes when they've fed heavily or are deep in shed I can't use them for my handling programs...). I've wanted to get a few more colorful animals and one species in particular (color morph bull snakes..) I am truly enamored with, but wasn't really obsessing on it...just had the intention that I'd keep my eyes open and sooner or later connect with the right animal.

So last Sunday, I traded one little baby black pine snake to a friend I've gotten a snake or two before from and he gave me three SPECTACULAR adults with unbelievable coloring (two axanthic bulls and a very large Nelson het for Albino for any snake enthusiasts who might be reading...) and now I'm totally set for doing really great shows!

I haven't read the above responses yet....just wanted to thank you for posing the question so clearly.

[MmeIntentional]

Originally Posted by RT Wolf

The key is not to get too attached to what you want, which is a mistake I was making in understanding the Law of Detachment from Deepak Chopra. He said that in the first paragraph of that chapter. Here:

The Law Of Detachment

RT Thanks for the link!

For sure if you don't attach you will become crazy, as I have experinced a few weeks ago. Hopefully I gor may wake up call and recovered.

[ethereal]

The power of LoA/IM is due to love, and not desire. It is the innate love for the object/person/outcome that attracts and manifests it. Desire, or wanting to have something, only manifests the want and the lack.

That is why you hold in mind the ideal outcome and surrender it to God/Source/Universe, but you stay nonattached to it.

[nightdiamond]

Hi, RT Wolf, all these viewpoints are good advice, even for someone who isn't trying I.M.

One suggestion I have is to practice building as much desire as you can muster for your goal at certain times and then taking a break and relaxing, letting go at other times. That way you can have the best of both worlds.
A suggestion for example, is to do it before bedtime or as you fall asleep as I heard of interesting examples and had successes myself either doing it before bedtime or in a deep state of relaxation.

There are 2 aspects involved in I.M I believe, and that is the building desire part, and then imagining you have it part. Keep that in mind too as you practice.

Good luck....

[jdiddy]

Originally Posted by RT Wolf

Is there a way to reconcile these ideas? For one thing, which manifests better, detachment or strong desire? I've had more success manifesting with detachment than strong desire, cause I think I mix the desire up with the feeling of lack of not having it now.

From personal experience, I can say that when you get what you desire, it increases your detachment. Which increases your ability to just "let go", and makes it easier to manifest things in the future. I think it's best to start out small, and use that increasing detachment to your advantage.

It also makes me wonder if that's what Jesus meant with the whole "faith the size of a mustard seed" thing. Maybe he meant that just one initial seed of faith leads to more detachment from the physical world, which leads to a bigger seed, and it just balloons out from there. That's pretty much what happened to me.

[Lisa McGregor]

Example: I am hungry and desire to eat chinese food for dinner - I call and tell them what I want give them my info and then I hang up. After making the call, I don't call back every two minutes and change the order, Nor do I keep calling and checking on the progress of the order....
I ordered what I desired, I trust they are preparing exactly what I want, and I am doing other things until it arrives - but....I know it is coming and I am anticipating the enjoyment of eating it.

hope this example makes sense - it sounded better in my mind before I actually wrote it down. LOL[/quote]

Wow, that is a really good analogy. It makes perfect sense. Well done.

LMcG

[RT Wolf]

Thanks all for your advice. I'm still striving to understand these ideas and really apply them in my life. ALG's suggestoin of writing goals every morning, I've taken to heart and do it every day.

Anyhoo, it seems like a common thread among the different methods of IM (including sedona, silva, abraham, etc) is to "allow" things into your reality. Hicks says that there are three steps:
1. Ask
2. Receive - Always happens, but you don't really "get" what you want until the third step
3. Accept by getting into vibrational harmony with it.

It seems like there's a less sense of controlling something than of trusting. Let go and trust. This seems to be the bridge to reconcile ideas of detachment AND strong desire, because strong desire can certainly exist while you're still trusting that something will come. And you become detached by trusting, too.

Assuming I'm at the level of courage (and assuming the model is correct), I guess I'm hitting up against the trap trying to control everything.

Hope this makes sense to someone else and helps out if possible.