Why!!??!! - Money related

[billionairekid]

Makers of the Secret and Abraham have no documented prosperity before their teachings. Why do we continue to follow their claims? Aren't other people seeing a problem here?

[Andras]

...what difference would that make? just because they "teach" this stuff does not imply that they can actually practice and how many people actually practice this and never go on lecture tours or sell DVD's and books?!!
Understand this - mental magic is as old as the hills, people used self-hypnosis, positive thinking and mentaliststic approaches to well being, healing etc, long before any religion, Abraham or self-help forums ever existed. Actually, the few people, who are really good at this stuff, never tell a soul! Why should they?

Originally Posted by billionairekid

Makers of the Secret and Abraham have no documented prosperity before their teachings. Why do we continue to follow their claims? Aren't other people seeing a problem here?

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

Originally Posted by billionairekid

Makers of the Secret and Abraham have no documented prosperity before their teachings. Why do we continue to follow their claims? Aren't other people seeing a problem here?

brrrrrt. they aren't the first people to teach those teachings, helllllerrrrrrr.

[Dave Plaza]

I think (maybe) that Hicks channelled Abraham in the beginning, but for years it's been fake... They still have some good advice though, take from it what you can, and follow your own path. LOA works, I know this... Don't get hung up on Abraham, and be sure to stop worrying about this. Cast it aside and move on. Abraham do help people, so they aren't that bad, it's best to just leave them to it.

[designAlignment]

From what I understood, Jerry Hicks made a fortune before he met Esther and she started channeling Abraham. He attributed his early success to applying what he learned in "Think and Grow Rich" by Napoleon Hill.

Regardless of whether it is true or not, it is a logical fallacy to say that a teaching is false because a specific teacher is unable to apply the teaching for claimed results.

Along the same lines, just because a specific teacher is enormously successful with a specific teaching doesn't mean that what they teach is true either.

Both are logically false because they attempt to prove/disprove a theory by focusing on the person rather than on the theory itself.


You have to prove/disprove the theory.
(Or if it isn't provable then it's a matter of whether the theory resonates or is useful to the individual in making their lives better.)

[ProbableReality]

Originally Posted by billionairekid

Makers of the Secret and Abraham have no documented prosperity before their teachings. Why do we continue to follow their claims? Aren't other people seeing a problem here?

Since you are interested enough to post here, surely you are interested enough to do your homework.

There is no problem.

[billionairekid]

I fully believe in the art of manifestation. I've used it many times in my life for different things. The one area I've had lots of trouble with is wealth. And I have a problem with people teaching you how to get "rich" using a formula they've never applied. Metaphysics has been around for many many years and there are many people who have undoubtedly used it to manifest wealth.

I get frustrated hearing these "teachers" whom have yet to prove they can do it for themselves. And it's not that I want validation manifestation works because as I said, I know it does. I'm a logical person so if what they teach does work, why do they have to keep selling products telling us the same things over and over.

I guess I could be part of the problem lol considering I've bought many of Abraham's products. They contain great information but as far as practicallity goes, I'm undecided. I'll take my frustrations and channel them into my practice. Maybe it's my desires that are causing the trouble. I want to break free from the traditional need to have a job in order to make money. And I have not been able to do yet

[AngelPsychic444]

Originally Posted by billionairekid

I fully believe in the art of manifestation. I've used it many times in my life for different things. The one area I've had lots of trouble with is wealth. And I have a problem with people teaching you how to get "rich" using a formula they've never applied. Metaphysics has been around for many many years and there are many people who have undoubtedly used it to manifest wealth.

I get frustrated hearing these "teachers" whom have yet to prove they can do it for themselves. And it's not that I want validation manifestation works because as I said, I know it does. I'm a logical person so if what they teach does work, why do they have to keep selling products telling us the same things over and over.

I guess I could be part of the problem lol considering I've bought many of Abraham's products. They contain great information but as far as practicallity goes, I'm undecided. I'll take my frustrations and channel them into my practice. Maybe it's my desires that are causing the trouble. I want to break free from the traditional need to have a job in order to make money. And I have not been able to do yet

Maybe you should check out the book "Excuse me your LIFE is waiting" by Lynn Grabhorn. This book was based on the Abraham teachings and she took them to another level and made it even more easy to work on manifesting, especially wealth. This book was on the bestseller lists for weeks...I've read it like 3 times and highly recommend it! Lynn also has very down-to-earth way of teaching...you'll get a few laughs from her book too.

[Bluth]

Originally Posted by AngelPsychic444

Maybe you should check out the book "Excuse me your LIFE is waiting" by Lynn Grabhorn. This book was based on the Abraham teachings and she took them to another level and made it even more easy to work on manifesting, especially wealth. This book was on the bestseller lists for weeks...I've read it like 3 times and highly recommend it! Lynn also has very down-to-earth way of teaching...you'll get a few laughs from her book too.

Apparently, she (the author) went crazy, and killed herself, unfortunately.

[AngelPsychic444]

Originally Posted by Bluth

Apparently, she (the author) went crazy, and killed herself, unfortunately.

That should NOT be a factor in her writing a great book that received much acclaim! She deserves alot of credit for that book! Only posting about her misfortunate demise is very insulting.... I would think it's better to post about something else!

[Bluth]

Originally Posted by AngelPsychic444

That should NOT be a factor in her writing a great book that received much acclaim! She deserves alot of credit for that book! Only posting about her misfortunate demise is very insulting.... I would think it's better to post about something else!

I wasn't intending to insult her, Its just strange that someone who had such a great understanding as she did ended up that way.

I do look forward to read her book.

[moonrambler]

Originally Posted by AngelPsychic444

That should NOT be a factor in her writing a great book that received much acclaim! She deserves alot of credit for that book! Only posting about her misfortunate demise is very insulting.... I would think it's better to post about something else!

I think it's a very valid factor, actually.

[juancito]

Originally Posted by billionairekid

Makers of the Secret and Abraham have no documented prosperity before their teachings. Why do we continue to follow their claims? Aren't other people seeing a problem here?

The secret is to claim to have a secret and then to charge people to tell them what it is...
and the more scalable and leverage you can utilize in that business, the better the business model is.

If that secret is about money, happiness, health, etc... people will line up in droves to hear it.

[SethWilliams]

Originally Posted by juancito

The secret is to claim to have a secret and then to charge people to tell them what it is...
and the more scalable and leverage you can utilize in that business, the better the business model is.

If that secret is about money, happiness, health, etc... people will line up in droves to hear it.

Theres nothing wrong with charging people. If you dont want to pay even a little to change your life, your not really dedicated to it.

Unless you dont really have the money, but then the information can be found freely online anyways.

Plus, ive read the secret, and the power. And the information in there could be used to successfully work with the LOA. But there has to be some element of dedication. Even magick works like that.

[James81]

Originally Posted by SethWilliams

If you dont want to pay even a little to change your life, your not really dedicated to it.

That's just outright not true.

That's a marketing idea, put there in yer head by those who want to market their products to you.

You see it all the time online....

Person 1: "What? you are charging [some ridiculous amount of money] for your product? Are you insane????"

Marketeer: "Well, you see, the amount of money you put in my pocket is a direct litmus of how dedicated you are. So, you see, if you don't put money in my pocket, then you obviously are not dedicated to change."

Person 1: "Um, no. $997 for one hour of your time is not a reasonable transaction."

[SethWilliams]

Originally Posted by James81

That's just outright not true.

That's a marketing idea, put there in yer head by those who want to market their products to you.

You see it all the time online....

Person 1: "What? you are charging [some ridiculous amount of money] for your product? Are you insane????"

Marketeer: "Well, you see, the amount of money you put in my pocket is a direct litmus of how dedicated you are. So, you see, if you don't put money in my pocket, then you obviously are not dedicated to change."

Person 1: "Um, no. $997 for one hour of your time is not a reasonable transaction."

Money can be thought of as energy. The more energy you put into something, the more you will get out of it.

*shrugs*

[James81]

Originally Posted by SethWilliams

Money can be thought of as energy. The more energy you put into something, the more you will get out of it.

*shrugs*

Another marketing ploy.

Nah, I understand what you're saying (I really do). I get that point. But the meaning is only there if you make that mean that. And trust me, those who sell PD products want you to make that association.

I have a little different idea about it. I'm very willing to pay the money for the product if I can be reasonably sure that the product is going to deliver value. But here's the thing...just because someone *says* that the money you put into their program will reap dividends does not ultimately mean that their product will deliver the value.

I'm spent money on personal development books that I literally wanted to hurl across the room and storm the author's headquarters and demand my money back.

Conversely, I've gotten *free* products that made me want to dip into my pocket and just give the person every last penny I had.

Be careful making the association that the amount of money you invest into a product is going to be a good gauge of the value you are going to get out of it.

[SethWilliams]

Originally Posted by James81

Another marketing ploy.

Nah, I understand what you're saying (I really do). I get that point. But the meaning is only there if you make that mean that. And trust me, those who sell PD products want you to make that association.

I have a little different idea about it. I'm very willing to pay the money for the product if I can be reasonably sure that the product is going to deliver value. But here's the thing...just because someone *says* that the money you put into their program will reap dividends does not ultimately mean that their product will deliver the value.

I'm spent money on personal development books that I literally wanted to hurl across the room and storm the author's headquarters and demand my money back.

Conversely, I've gotten *free* products that made me want to dip into my pocket and just give the person every last penny I had.

Be careful making the association that the amount of money you invest into a product is going to be a good gauge of the value you are going to get out of it.

Oh no I get that. I just dont like it when people instantly dismiss something because you have to pay for it.

Seems foolish. Of course, if there asking you to pay with your arms and legs.

Back away.

[James81]

Originally Posted by SethWilliams

Oh no I get that. I just dont like it when people instantly dismiss something because you have to pay for it.

Seems foolish. Of course, if there asking you to pay with your arms and legs.

Back away.

Yeah, I agree with you about those people as well.

But, then again, that really depends on what the product is.

For example, I was on a forum where you had to pay to have an avatar. And, eventually, you had to pay to get into the main forum.

And the owner's reasoning was that because he said like 4 years ago (at the time) that he'd never put ads up on the sight, that's why he was doing it. And I thought, ummm, well, you're pissing a lot more people off by making them pay to use your forum than you would be if you just put some ads up.

And it was this MASSIVE message board where he had all kinds of traffic. And he tried to say that his hosting costs were getting too much for him to handle. In other words, he was casting the onus of the blame onto the user ("there's too many of you!") rather than monetizing his traffic in a way that would be sustainable.

In that case, yes, it's ridiculous to pay for something that is pretty much free everywhere else.

[billionairekid]

Originally Posted by AngelPsychic444

Maybe you should check out the book "Excuse me your LIFE is waiting" by Lynn Grabhorn. This book was based on the Abraham teachings and she took them to another level and made it even more easy to work on manifesting, especially wealth. This book was on the bestseller lists for weeks...I've read it like 3 times and highly recommend it! Lynn also has very down-to-earth way of teaching...you'll get a few laughs from her book too.

Thank you so much for the recommendation. I've been looking for a way to take things to the next level (hence my frustration lol). I've felt like I mastered the principles introduced to me by Abraham. And to anyone reading this I want to be clear, this is not a disclaimer to stay away from Abraham. It is a disclaimer that although there are many different products they all basically teach the same thing. And it's a great lesson.

However, I'm ready for the next level and I've been experimenting on my own to figure out what that is. Hopefully Mrs. Grabhorn can help me get there

Originally Posted by Bluth

Apparently, she (the author) went crazy, and killed herself, unfortunately.

I've been there to be frankly honest. I thought that reaching higher levels of consciousness was supposed to make life easier and in many ways that's true. For one, I've achieved spiritual peace/happiness. However reaching higher levels also brought new challenges I wasn't prepared for. I've since gone through many transformations allowing me to enjoy the new challenges

@James - I wanna say one more time how bright you are. I greatly appreciate reading your posts and I think you're an enlightening member of this forum.

[cortocabezas1111]

I think there are people out there, selling products like these, to make money and they basically have little to no idea what they are talking about. They are just taking advantage of people. So it's good to have a discerning eye I suppose.

I am not a fan of the Hicks people or the secret or any of that. Reminds me of Fast Food spirituality, prepackaged, and more concerned on the mass quantity of sales, rather than the quality of the work.

[Silenced140]

It's not the teachings that are bad. The overall principle is what works, but when you get deep into their teachings about talking to higher beings and stuff like that, I don't exactly get all of that.

They basically stole things you could get out of numerous books already written. They certainly made a lot of money in the end.

[juancito]

Originally Posted by SethWilliams

Theres nothing wrong with charging people. If you dont want to pay even a little to change your life, your not really dedicated to it.

Unless you dont really have the money, but then the information can be found freely online anyways.

Plus, ive read the secret, and the power. And the information in there could be used to successfully work with the LOA. But there has to be some element of dedication. Even magick works like that.

I totally agree that there is nothing wrong with charging people. In fact, it should probably happen more often. Many people don't value their knowledge, time, and skills enough. For example, they charge much less their competition, yet their skills and overall value to the customer is much greater. If you are better, you should charge more, and make sure to communicate the extra value your customers will get by coming to you rather than your competition. Solving people's problems is valuable, and those who are able to market and deliver that value are able to make more money.

[MacFly]

It's a little bit of skeptics-paradox.

if they have a lot of money, we say "they are lying and they only do it to make money", but if they would be poor we'd say "why they want to teach me how to be rich when they are broke as ****"

since the theory they teach is available for free (or for a few dollars in the form of books), you can't lose much.

Really, the theory of the law of attraction is a more-or-less simple theory, and it is available for free online. the content of the secret is basically available for free.

you can download it from torrent, and then pay if you feel like it's worth the price.

[forexpreneur]

Want to get to the next level? You have to change your subconscious beliefs. You can ALWAYS tell what your subconscious beliefs are by the results you are getting in your life. There is NEVER an exception.

Hypnosis is decent. NLP is even better. EFT (Emotional Freedome Technique) is even better. Faster EFT is better yet (visit Faster EFT.com - The official website of Robert G. Smith, creator of FasterEFT ) he'll let you know how to use his technique for absolutely free.

Information is very important and it's kind of like which came first? The rooster or the hen? Wait, different story. The chicken or the egg. But in all due seriousnous, one isn't more important than the other. One needs both, but most people don't even address the subconscious. It's the anchor. If it's deployed in shallow waters, well one will never get into the deep ocean.

I hope that helps and makes sense?

Best wishes on your journey.

[Agota]

I don't really understand the logic of the question in original post. I mean, I get what you're trying to say, but it makes no sense whatsoever from LoA perspective, at least in my eyes.

I assume that people who weren't wealthy before starting to teach about LoA made an intention to become wealthy and applied their knowledge of deliberate creation to manifest wealth. They probably got an idea to start teaching people about deliberate creation. They followed that idea and now they're wealthy. The fact that they're wealthy now is a clear proof that what they're teaching works, isn't it? They made an intention to become wealthy and wealth came to them in the most efficient way possible: they've utilized their knowledge and skills that are most valuable to other people. I don't really understand how that discredits them or their teachings?

[ChrisGinsburg]

People also tend to overlook the fact that many people can live quite comfortably getting exactly what they need as they need it and never stock piling excess. Truthfully if you observe nature this is exactly how it plays out as well. Harmoniously flowing with life isn't going to mean that you get far more than you need. It will mean that you have access to what you need when you need it. Anything more and you're just struggling with fear and convincing yourself that lack is just around the corner.

[Matthew Cluff]

Originally Posted by billionairekid

Makers of the Secret...have no documented prosperity before their teachings.

The maker of The Secret, Rhonda Byrne, went through incredible difficulties before she came to making the movie and writing her books.

She used the Law of Attraction (along with the rest of her camera crew) to attract the masters of this information into her movie to be filmed and documented.

Furthermore, she went to attract happiness, wealth, and abundance into her life afterwards as a result of using the secret and went from struggling over money problems to being financially free.

Looking into the back story of this will prove the information to be valid.

Originally Posted by billionairekid

if what they teach does work, why do they have to keep selling products telling us the same things over and over.

The trouble is that humans have paradigms and programming embedded into their subconscious minds which ultimately dictate their results. To change your results, you must change your paradigms, and such a change takes place through the repetition of certain information.

Now, many people may purchase a program and then go through it once (at most), but if they want to change their results, they must repeatedly feed their mind with this new, positive information, and if they fail to go through one program many times, they can help ingrain the information from learning from multiple programs.

That being said, some people learn better in certain forms than others. An eBook may appeal to someone while a video may appeal to another individual. It all comes down to a matter of preference and what helps them.

Another reason is that certain products have different focuses. While they all may deal in the realm of self-help and personal development, some may touch on different topics or different aspects that aren't covered in other programs.

Ultimately, what it comes down to is the result for the end user. If the creator of any such products -- one or many; different or the same in premise -- positively affects one other individual, then they've done their job correctly (and made an income through providing and selling multiple products in the process, which is a nice added benefit).

[Balbrae]

Originally Posted by billionairekid

I fully believe in the art of manifestation. I've used it many times in my life for different things. The one area I've had lots of trouble with is wealth. And I have a problem with people teaching you how to get "rich" using a formula they've never applied. Metaphysics has been around for many many years and there are many people who have undoubtedly used it to manifest wealth.

I get frustrated hearing these "teachers" whom have yet to prove they can do it for themselves. And it's not that I want validation manifestation works because as I said, I know it does. I'm a logical person so if what they teach does work, why do they have to keep selling products telling us the same things over and over.

I guess I could be part of the problem lol considering I've bought many of Abraham's products. They contain great information but as far as practicallity goes, I'm undecided. I'll take my frustrations and channel them into my practice. Maybe it's my desires that are causing the trouble. I want to break free from the traditional need to have a job in order to make money. And I have not been able to do yet

Recall that Seth once quipped that for those who need metaphysical proof, there may never be enough proof because their beliefs form their reality. In any case, if one is to believe the Hannel method of manifestation, pertaining to the attainment of wealth, a key ingredient that is required for the law of abundance = service to others. So, if one wants to manifest wealth without providing service to others, one is seeking an imbalance that will not produce wealth.

I think you could figure out a way to be of service, without necessarily having to have a "job." However, according to Hannel, you will always have to have output to receive input because the law of abundance seeks to restore balance. Outflow provides inflow. What do you propose to do to provide service to others? The more you provide, the more you get, and the more you can demand of the universe in an ever-upward spiral.

One should be careful with generalities. What is "rich" to you? What is "making it" to you? Hundred-thousandaires often do not consider themselves "rich," though politicians will demogogue to the masses that they are the "rich." Millionaires may not even consider themselves rich. Whether one has "made it" or is "rich" is all in the eye of the beholder.

Finally, from my perspective, Esther and Jerry Hicks provide a great service to mankind, for which they are handsomely rewarded according to Hannel's Law of Attraction (service to others provides wealth).

[lycan]

Originally Posted by ChrisGinsburg

People also tend to overlook the fact that many people can live quite comfortably getting exactly what they need as they need it and never stock piling excess. Truthfully if you observe nature this is exactly how it plays out as well. Harmoniously flowing with life isn't going to mean that you get far more than you need. It will mean that you have access to what you need when you need it. Anything more and you're just struggling with fear and convincing yourself that lack is just around the corner.

Define "need".