PATHS Refund Nightmare

[dor]

Originally Posted by Grace.Haeusler

I am not saying you are \"in love\" with me, far from it, but I know you have no ill will towards me. So why the name calling? .

Sorry, a freudian slip perhaps. Perhaps you honestly believe paths works, but after a few threads with Aaron, his dodgy and often inaccurate answers and finally the attempt to mine my personal information, has convinced me he\'s nothing more than a con man. A con man always, of course, first cons himself...but I think myself and some intellectually diligent posters (one, JHL) proved, beyond a shadow of a doubt that he\'s espousing psedu/junk science

[Angela]

Sometimes I misspell his name, too: "Adore" which is a freudian slip of course; he's a bundle of love!!

[Shaden]

Lets assume the LOA is completely and utterly true. It works without a shadow of a doubt. If you think certain thoughts, you attract particular results.

Don't you see what the problem is with developing a product that tries to harness this power? It's not about how effective the product is at all in the slightest. It's about how you perceive that product that really determines what effect it will have on you. So if you think it's turd, it'll turn out turd. And if you think it's effective, it'll turn out to be effective. It all comes back to your original perceptions.

Now why exactly do you need to pay a large sum of money, just because you happen to perceive the product as being effective. Isn't that a bit, well, dumb? If you honestly believe in the LOA, then surely it's not the product that's important but the original expected effect it will have on your conscious and unconscious manifestations.

Think about it for a moment. Meditation, visualisation, controlled thoughts and all the various free techniques - won't they have the same results in your life as long as you expect them to.

LOA - Dominant thoughts = Dominant results

- Think that PATHS will work = a hole in your pocket = neat results
- Think that meditation/visualisation/controlled thoughts will work = no hole in pocket = neat results

Where's the difference aside from expenditure?

I'd prefer to keep my wallet intact personally.

[Grace.Haeusler]

Originally Posted by dor

Sorry, a freudian slip perhaps. Perhaps you honestly believe paths works, but after a few threads with Aaron, his dodgy and often inaccurate answers and finally the attempt to mine my personal information, has convinced me he\'s nothing more than a con man. A con man always, of course, first cons himself...but I think myself and some intellectually diligent posters (one, JHL) proved, beyond a shadow of a doubt that he\'s espousing psedu/junk science

Perhaps it was a slip, but I don't believe you did slip. It is interesting how quickly you change the subject from what YOU have just done to defame my name and immediately do the same again to Aaron. I am starting to truly believe that you are very jealous of Aaron. In fact I am sure of it. Oh well as I have always said "to each his own"

[Shaden]

I am starting to truly believe that you are very jealous of Aaron.

What's there to be jealous of?

[dor]

Originally Posted by Grace.Haeusler

Perhaps it was a slip, but I don\'t believe you did slip. It is interesting how quickly you change the subject from what YOU have just done to defame my name and immediately do the same again to Aaron. I am starting to truly believe that you are very jealous of Aaron. In fact I am sure of it. Oh well as I have always said \"to each his own\"

Jealous .....of what? I haven\'t \'defamed\' him that would imply lying. I proved (unlike his psedu-scientific claims) everything I said, often by simply quoting him. He eventually lost his temper and called me names, after attempting to mine my personal data. I guess PATHS isn\'t working for him.

[Grace.Haeusler]

Originally Posted by dor

Jealous .....of what? I haven\'t \'defamed\' him that would imply lying. I proved (unlike his psedu-scientific claims) everything I said, often by simply quoting him. He eventually lost his temper and called me names, after attempting to mine my personal data. I guess PATHS isn\'t working for him.

Originally Posted by dor
"also note how a paths 'affiliate' Grace Hustler,tries to hook people on trying paths for 3 months, well past the gurantee."



Well you defamed my name. But I guess it's ok if you do it. Again "to each his own"

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Shaden

- Think that PATHS will work = a hole in your pocket = neat results
- Think that meditation/visualisation/controlled thoughts will work = no hole in pocket = neat results

Where's the difference aside from expenditure?

I'd prefer to keep my wallet intact personally.

You're right -- they are simply two different approaches. As far as meditation/visualisation/controlled thoughts: it never even occurred to me to use those to eliminate the dark, puffy circles under my eyes, or to make my nails grow longer and stronger. For the things that I have tried various techniques on -- sleep, body image, eating patterns -- the results I'm having on PATHS are FAR, HUGELY more in effect than anything I ever got from meditation or any other method. I used to know that I should eat more vegetables, for instance, but I never craved them with lusty delight regardless of them being good for me, the way I do now, since I started PATHS.

Possibly I have not worked "hard" enough for my results before, in other's view. The same people might say I should concentrate my effort on perfecting my LoA skills! Feh! I'm not working hard at all to eat good food, drink lots of water, exercise with gusto, passionately love my body, see my hair growing in with way less grey, have sexier sex, watch my muscles grow beautifully and quickly, and be filled with extreme gratitude and confidence every day, even the cranky ones.

But I'm having a blast on PATHS! If it is only my mind power that's making it work, then it's worth the money to me for the mind power super-boost that I didn't have before. So I spend some money for what you spend your time and effort on. Why would that be a problem? Each to his own.

[dor]

Originally Posted by Grace.Haeusler

Originally Posted by dor
also note how a pathsaffiliate Grace Hustler,tries to hook people on trying paths for 3 months, well past the gurantee.

Well you defamed my name. But I guess it\'s ok if you do it. Again to each his own

To which I replied, sorry, and said you might actually believe it works. But Since i have concluded that Aaron is a con artist and PATHs is a classic subliminal scam, I first assume anyone associated with it and telling people to sign up are part of that scam. I realize that is not the case that there are many people who actually believe it works (despite extraordinary evidence that of illusary placebo and none for downloading messages into your mind via quantum physics ).

Sahden I agree: I also think its a bad idea to put your faith in the product because then you start to think it is the product not you that is having an effect and without it, (for example if it was, oh i don t know, shut down by the Washington state attorney general) that you can t succeed.

[Lychee]

Originally Posted by impaul99

By the way. Near the end of my trial, I think I figured out why PATHS works for some people. I am pretty sure I can reproduce the results for myself using a different product that I already own. Once I finish moving I'm going to run a trial and let you guys know.

I'm eager to hear about this.

[Grace.Haeusler]

Originally Posted by dor

To which I replied, sorry, and said you might actually believe it works. But Since i have concluded that Aaron is a con artist and PATHs is a classic subliminal scam, I first assume anyone associated with it and telling people to sign up are part of that scam. I realize that is not the case that there are many people who actually believe it works

Back to defaming Aaron again, BLAH BLAH BLAH. you say you are sorry to me, but you continue to defame!!

Angela, I, and many others not only Believe it works we KNOW it works, we have experienced the results over and over again! Which you have not. You can tell me until you are blue in the face that the sky is falling and it is just not so!

You can agree to disagree without having to continue to defame others who have different points of views than yours.

"The past is history, the future is a mystery, but this moment is a gift and this is why it's called the PRESENT" Deepak Chopra


DOR YOU NEED TO READ THIS! The parable of the room - Michael Sharp - This Ascension Guidebook Primer

[dor]

Originally Posted by Grace.Haeusler

Back to defaming Aaron again, BLAH BLAH BLAH. you say you are sorry to me, but you continue to defame!!

Did you read what I said? I am not defaming him. Would you like to see the evidence that he tried to mine my personal data? Would it even matter to you?
Would like the see the evidence he indicated he doesn t know what a controlled experiment is? Would it even matter? Probably not....

We can go in circles like this all day but I won t - I have noticed a peculiar irrationality in PATHs supporters, completely ignoring what I said. You can t refute what I said - that I am not defaming him because that implies lying,- so you just accuse me of doing it, again; A pattern with you and certain other PATHs supporters. If you want to be conned out of your money, go ahead, I am done wasting my time with this.

[kevs]

dor, excuse my ignorance, but what does 'mine your personal data' mean? Are you saying he tried to find out who you are, where you are? If so, what does one accomplish from this? What would someone get out of mining your personal data?

[JHL]

Originally Posted by Angela

So I spend some money for what you spend your time and effort on. Why would that be a problem? Each to his own.

It might not be a problem, but here's why it could be one. Doing this work the "hard" way has its downsides. Its, well, hard and takes time. Is often frustrating and difficult to follow through on, particularly for the less strong-willed among us. However one terribly strong up-side it does have going for it, is that the mind registers the effort that has been expended and this conscious recognition of ones ability to transcend difficulty translates into self-esteem, self-confidence and self-respect.

In addition, one learns discipline in terms of consciously managing our bodily desires.

Finally, one of the most important benefits of all, is that these advantages are long term. They are enduring. The mind has evidence of its ability to achieve difficult things.

Which brings me to - what I consider to be the major down-side of a product like paths. If it does work, it actually cheats you by taking away some of the work, some of the lessons you would otherwise gain from if you had to achieve the same results the "hard" way.

I'm not suggesting that paths is a magic pill that effortlessly does everything for you. But I will be VERY interested to see how you maintain your current gains once you are no longer using the product. A year, 2 years, 10 years from now. I would also be interested to see to what extent the product causes dependency on itself and other similar products in an effort to avoid having to confront "hard" work.

Do you not think that at some point you will have to confront the problem of why you were not sleeping well? Why you were not able to grow your muscles just as well off the program? Do you honestly believe that Paths has assisted you in permanently avoiding having to deal with these issues? Is it not more likely that a combination of high doses of spirulina and whatever these "presentations" (or placebo) are have merely postponed the inevitable?

[dor]

Originally Posted by kevs

dor, excuse my ignorance, but what does mine your personal data mean? Are you saying he tried to find out who you are, where you are? If so, what does one accomplish from this? What would someone get out of mining your personal data?

After aaron continuely demaned that I reveal who I was, i got a PM from newly registered user with a link the truth about pathsit linked to a site that aaron has posted (as in having FTP access, he even admitted) to, having a blank page meant to get my IP and other personal info. I do not know to what extent the cookie he set picked up data- definitely referring URL and IP, but just in case I changed all my passwords and informed him if anything suspicious happened I would contact the attorney general in his state. I still might.

as to what he could get: if the cookie stayed, possibly my user and logins for email and stuff and via that find out who i was - iP, unless a proxy could tell where I was.

But it also proves he was logging on with proxy IPs as multiple users and i suspect many of the low post cheerleaders for PATHs are him.

Sorry to go on about this but he really pissed me off when he tried that and that stunt was what convinced me he was a liar and con man.

[kinerkid]

JHL,

I have wondered the same thing. Will my brain return to producing not enough endorphins and seratonin and all those good feeling hormones and chemicals if I remove myself from the Mood Elevator? Will it result in me struggling and fighting off depression? I did fight it, for years. I used eating healthy and exercise and guarding my thoughts to help keep it at bay. At best, on a scale of 1-10, I was operating at a solid 4. Not bad, eh? At least, I didn't think that was too bad. I was doing pretty good, considering when I was put on Zoloft a few years ago I was probably about a -5. And I got to 4 all by myself! No zoloft. But I decided to give the mood elevator a try. I've been at a solid 8 now for the last few weeks.

The last week has been tough and interesting for me. I discovered a lot of WHY I have been struggling. Why I've been combating depression and all that for the last several years. So then I wondered, why now? Why do I all of the sudden remember? Why do I have the insight into myself that I haven't had? I think mentally and physically I'm finally at a place where I can confront these demons. And in facing them, I know now that I am strong enough to exorcise them and not let them have a hold on me. It's not an overnight magic pill. I know that truly freeing myself of all this will take a bit of time. But I can do it! If you had told me a year ago I could do this there's no way I would have believed it.

I have the Mood Elevator to thank for helping my body become stronger so that I can continue to grow and clean house (metaphorically) on my body, my emotions, my memories. I am proud of the progress I am making. It's ME that's doing the work. Paths Mood Elevator has just helped me do the work a little more quickly than I could have on my own. I don't believe I'll need the Mood Elevator forever. As I continue to grow and make myself better and better, I believe my body will refine itself and start operating in a more efficient, wholesome way all by itself. I just thank Paths for helping me get to that place a little faster. I cringe when I think about how many years it could have taken me all on my own. The same work is being done - whether on my own or with help - and I am the one doing the work. Just having the helping hand is so encouraging and inspiring.

PS - I love The Hitchhiker's Guide!!!! Great quote.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by JHL

postponed the inevitable?

The inevitable what? The inevitable confrontation I'll have with aging? The problem of not sleeping well or growing muscles? While I take your point, the answer is No.

Spirulina certainly is not the cause of my great sleep, as that kicked in the very night I watched my first PATHS theater, 2 days before I got ahold of any spirulina. My sleeping problem is something I've been confronting since I was a little girl -- sleep therapy, regular therapy, exercise, relaxation techniques -- and none of these things made one whit of difference. What's happening now is lovely, and it grieves me not at all to imagine spending $35 a month for the rest of my life to keep sleeping like this. Even adjusting for inflation.

Neither spirulina nor PATHS is the direct cause of my sexy new little muscles; the cause of those is my cardio and weight-lifting, which have taken on breakthrough qualities since I've begun PATHS, and my great new eating habits, which are also the result of PATHS. These things, too, began to show up the first day, before I took my first dose of spirulina. (It's protein, so it might be contributing to muscle mass growth.) Would my newfound love of vegetables die, would I enjoy my workouts less, if I stop doing PATHS? maybe, but it wouldn't be a "problem" that I would "need to confront." I still have the satisfaction of working hard to sculpt my sexy little muscles -- I just don't have any of the old hesitation in getting my ass off the couch.

I'm feeling a great urge to organize, construct goals and see them to fruition, and throw myself into projects that I had been procrastinating about before PATHS. This is a shot-in-the-arm, not a replacement for hard work. If anything, I'm working harder now, and enjoying it much more! There was nothing wrong with me that needed to be fixed or "confronted"; it's just nice to have a super-booster.

I'm thinking now that maybe you think I think PATHS is going to do all my work for me, to solve all my problems for me. If that were the case, then I could see how what you're saying would really apply! However, I don't think of it that way. I think of it more as a super-charged vitamin pack. I could still be lazy, or eat poorly, or not work out; but when I choose to go after the things I want in my life, I have a little extra oomphability that I didn't have without it.

Vitamin P! (hee hee, it's okay if that stands for "placebo", Dor!)

[Grace.Haeusler]

[quote=dor;58842]Did you read what I said? I am not defaming him./QUOTE]

I did read what you said. You called me a Hustler. Have you not just defamed my character? Now I am being irrational because you insist you are not defaming Aaron and Paths, and yet you call all of this a scam. Allow me to remind YOU that your actions are no better than what you are accusing Aaron, me and Paths of. Even though you say you are sorry, I don't feel you are being sincere with me.

Straight out of Webster's Dictionary.

de-fame : to injure or destroy the reputation of by libel or slander.

Libel : a spoken or written statement or a representation that gives an unjustly unfavorable impression of a person or thing


What does matter to me, right now in THIS MOMENT is the Freedom to live my life to the fullest and best of my abilities. I enjoy the fact that I can purchase what I choose for myself, and completely and fully, even blissfully enjoy it.

Paths has been the best purchase I have EVER MADE IN MY WHOLE ENTIRE LIFE!!! Paths is why my life is not only good, but ABSOLUTELY FABULOUS!!! I am looking forward to the GREAT new modules that Paths will be coming out with in the near future, and to enjoy as often as I can adding new current modules.

LIFE IS FABULOUS!!

[Angela]

Originally Posted by kinerkid

I just thank Paths for helping me get to that place a little faster. I cringe when I think about how many years it could have taken me all on my own. The same work is being done - whether on my own or with help - and I am the one doing the work. Just having the helping hand is so encouraging and inspiring.

Right-O! nicely stated.

[Shaden]

Paths has been the best purchase I have EVER MADE IN MY WHOLE ENTIRE LIFE!!! Paths is why my life is not only good, but ABSOLUTELY FABULOUS!!! I am looking forward to the GREAT new modules that Paths will be coming out with in the near future, and to enjoy as often as I can adding new current modules.

Sorry to pick at you Grace but you're the exact definition of what me, JHL and dor have against this product.

Read over your post again and try and recognise the one vital flaw in the words you typed. See how weak it sounds? You're basically confessing that your life is great because of an external factor; not an internal one. And the difference between an external factor and internal factor is a matter of integrity and strength. Dependence is a very dangerous position to be in. You're vulnerable. If PATHS gets yanked out of your life through no fault of your own, where do you turn?

The point of independence, of self-reliance is a far better position to be in. If you develop yourself in a number of skills that will allow you to better utilise the LOA, then life will find it a lot easier to take that away from you. Stopping short of a random labotamy, you're pretty secure. And you didn't put your success in the LOA in the hands of a group of people that you have never even met.

@ Angela: I'm happy to hear the product has had such wonderful results for you. I'll be sending out an intention for the continuation of this product's existence and the arrival of a less suspicious figurehead on this forum. Because most of the arguments against PATHS, I feel, have stemmed from Aaron's poor posts on the other threads.

[Angela]

Thank you for your kind intention, Shaden.

Since there was an emotionally charged outcry way before Aaron showed up, I suspect there is something else at work in the virulent resistance to (and even protest of!) PATHS by folks who haven't tried it yet. I don't know exactly what it is, but I'll bet it will be valuable to all of us to see what it is. Dor said he wants to "help" people, and true as that may be, I also suspect there's something else entirely at work. Otherwise, why not protest once and go on to other matters? (I've lost count of the times he's posted that snake oil link.) Why the virulence? Why the rancor?