LOA and the Catholic Church

[newdad]

I have been trying to discover the Catholic Churches particular opinion on LOA. I have not been able to find anything official. Maybe the Church is okay with it, but something about LOA doesn't feel right, as if the Church wouldn't approve. Anyone come across an official statement or have an opinion on this?

[Dolazy]

Originally Posted by newdad

I have been trying to discover the Catholic Churches particular opinion on LOA. I have not been able to find anything official. Maybe the Church is okay with it, but something about LOA doesn't feel right, as if the Church wouldn't approve. Anyone come across an official statement or have an opinion on this?

No, I haven't come across an official statement on this. But I suspect that they would declare the LoA teachings to be incompatible with the core teachings of the Roman Catholic Church.

A related example is how the spiritual teachings of Anthony de Mello were at one time banned from the church by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, who later became Pope Benedict XVI. It's an interesting read: CDF - Writings of Fr. De Mello, SJ

Dolazy

[Sam988]

Who cares about what the catholic church thinks?

[Lychee]

Why is it incompatible with the church?

[CamC]

why dont you just think for youself? you may have forgotten, but u do have a free will. It's called the frontal lobe and its located just behind your forehead.

[cylon]

I would think any christian church other than unitarian would be against LOA. The main teaching is that your life is a bunch of crap and evil things will happen to you until you confess to being a dirty sinner, accept Jesus and follow his word and THEN you get LOA type stuff to happen. But it's a special gift only for Christians, and if you stop being Christian, it will stop working. It's basically answering prayers, and God only answers the prayers of Christians, according to most Christian believers.

[Radio]

I don't know about the Catholic church specifically, but a good friend of mine is a Christian pastor, and the LoA came up in conversation not too long ago. I told him it's exactly the same thing he teaches at his church, but without the "getting on your knees" part.

As expected, he blew it off as something Satanic, and told me that the only way to receive blessings is through Jesus Christ. So I'm guessing the Catholic church stance is pretty similar to this. Probably not even worth bringing it up if you're catholic. Just do what you feel is right.

[Betrade]

Originally Posted by cylon

I would think any christian church other than unitarian would be against LOA. The main teaching is that your life is a bunch of crap and evil things will happen to you until you confess to being a dirty sinner, accept Jesus and follow his word and THEN you get LOA type stuff to happen. But it's a special gift only for Christians, and if you stop being Christian, it will stop working. It's basically answering prayers, and God only answers the prayers of Christians, according to most Christian believers.

A true Christian doesn't believe that god only answers the prayers of christians, nor does the Catholic church; believe it or not. I realize that many do feel that way, but they're misinterpreting basic christian theology, even if they're unaware of it.

I don't want to get into quoting scripture or anything, but I'll paraphrase a verse. (I have no clue what verse it is). It basically says that ALL people have the knowledge of god in their heart. That can also be translated as having a conscience.

So, a Buddhist, Hindu, Jew, Agnostic or even an atheist know right from wrong. I'm well aware that those are relative terms, but just about every society on earth agrees that murder, child molestation, rape, stealing and a few other evil deeds are wrong. It's instinctual.

Anyhow, there are lots of christians who absolutely believe that they're the "chosen" few, but the message of Christ said nothing of the kind. In fact, he said that in his fathers house, there are many mansions. I, and many others interperet that as many religions, belief systems etc.

A poor Chinese farmer who never heard the name of Jesus in his life is unaccountable for not knowing the gospel. If he lived a good life, did what he was supposed to do, never hurt anyone etc., he is not damned. In order to "sin", one must be aware that what they're doing is wrong, and the Catholic church definitely teaches this principle. I don't know if they always have, because they've been around a long time, but i do know that they do now, and have been for many centuries.

In fact, what is called "mortal" sin from a Catholic standpoint (which allegedly removes you from fellowship with God until you confess, receive absolution and do penance) requires three ingredients.

They are A: full knowledge , or knowing the gravity of the sin, and to be fully aware of what one is doing. So a paranoid schizophrenic or someone suffering from some other mental illness, or even ignorance of doing wrong is not guilty, even if they commit murder.

B:It must be a grave matter. That's subject to a bit of interpretation as well, but basically means something that's really bad, like murdering an innocent, molesting a child, stealing a million bucks that was meant to feed the poor, etc.

C: This is a biggy; the FULL consent of the will. So, knowingly doing something wrong but not having your heart completely in it, so to speak, gets you off the hook as well. For instance, if someone knows what they're doing is wrong, but they have no alternative, or are coerced into it aginst their better judgement etc. would constitute a venial sin, which isn't nearly as bad as mortal sin.

So, I have no clue where the Church stands on LOA, but if it's done with a pure heart, good intentions, and for the good of all concerned, I don't think anyone should be too concerned about spending eternity with Lucifer over it. Maybe a few thousand years in purgatory would get someone off the hook. who knows???

Overall, it may be considered some kind of divination, which is a definite "no no" in the eyes of the church, but that's certainly not unforgivable, especially if one still has faith in God, and merely see themselves as working within the confines of the laws that he created in the first place. In LOA, intention plays a big role. They say that the road to hell is paved with good intentions, but if the intentions are truly pure, I can't see God having a problem with it.

I think we put way too many human characteristics on God (especially the bad ones, like jealousy, wrath, vengence etc.), and keep him in a little box that fits us; not him (oh, and I don't believe God is male, I'm just using "he" because that's the way most people refer to "him") rather than "it" but I choose to give God a little bit more credit than many do, and I also have always believed that he has a great sense of humor.

He must also be pretty darn busy running the universe (and maybe even a few billion more universes; who knows??), and I just can't see someone so good as to provide us with all that we need to do whatever we wish, sitting around and sweating the small stuff with a scorecard in his hand.

He probably has much bigger fish to fry than to get upset about people creating intentions, setting goals, and trusting him to make it happen. The whole LOA can easily be viewed from a Christian standpoint as doing exactly that, and trusting his promise of coming to show the way to an abundnat life doesn't sound like any serious crime to me.

But if it's really a serious concern for a practicing Catholic, the best bet would be to talk to a priest. If he doesn't give a good answer, it can't hurt to talk to few more. The catechism probably has plenty to say on divination, but I don't think it gets into the specifics of LOA. I'm not even sure that LOA would be considered divination if it's looked at in the right context.

[Sam988]

Originally Posted by Betrade

He must also be pretty darn busy running the universe (and maybe even a few billion more universes; who knows??), and I just can't see someone so good as to provide us with all that we need to do whatever we wish, sitting around and sweating the small stuff with a scorecard in his hand.

He probably has much bigger fish to fry than to get upset about people creating intentions, setting goals, and trusting him to make it happen. The whole LOA can easily be viewed from a Christian standpoint as doing exactly that, and trusting his promise of coming to show the way to an abundnat life doesn't sound like any serious crime to me.

But if it's really a serious concern for a practicing Catholic, the best bet would be to talk to a priest. If he doesn't give a good answer, it can't hurt to talk to few more. The catechism probably has plenty to say on divination, but I don't think it gets into the specifics of LOA. I'm not even sure that LOA would be considered divination if it's looked at in the right context.

Maybe you forgot it, because you seem to know a good deal about it,
whatever god is (Source, Energy, God), according to every belief system that acknowledges him, he is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. So he cant be busy enough to not answer what we want. Unless you believe in a different god, or you are politheist, then its a different story.

[Betrade]

Originally Posted by Sam988

Maybe you forgot it, because you seem to know a good deal about it,
whatever god is (Source, Energy, God), according to every belief system that acknowledges him, he is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. So he cant be busy enough to not answer what we want. Unless you believe in a different god, or you are politheist, then its a different story.

I agree completely. I was being facetious (sic??). I just don't believe that God is "out to get us" just because we may use the abilties he put in us. IMO, if he set the LOA in motion and designed it to work to our benefit (or to our detriment, depending on how we execrcise it), than I can't see why he would have a problem if those of us who realize it's existence use it to our advantage. I don't believe it was created to do us harm, or create undesirable situations for ourselves.

I would think that he would be pleased if we use it to our advantage. I know when I teach my own sons something that I like, and they like it too, it gives me pleasure and satisfaction, and I imagine God would be pleased as well.

I'm not a practicing Catholic, and don't really believe in the religion, but I come from a very large Catholic family and was raised in the faith. When people ask, I tell them that I don't "practice" it anymore because I mastered it a long time ago, thus eliminating the need for anymore practice.

I just wish doctors would practice a bit longer before they start treating people. I don't like the idea of being the guy that they "practice" on. I thought that's what guinea pigs were for.

The same goes for lawyers.

[cylon]

Betrade- you make some good points. I know Christians who are much more open-minded as well, and who don't deny other viewpoints. On average though, when it comes to the people who are in prominent positions in the "church" (the ones many believers look up to to know what to think), you are not likely to hear "accept Jesus as your savior or go to hell, but if you don't, that's fine too, you should be ok."

The majority of Christians believe they have a special place in the universe, because they joined the right club and therefore are granted exclusive rights to the goodies from the club (good stuff from what we're calling LOA).

But again, that's not EVERYONE. Things like the Unitarian church for example are Christian but do not believe in what I just mentioned.

For myself, I prefer to go through life without following rules handed down by humans over the centuries. Treat people well, that's my basic motto. Everything else is allowed. And if the LOA is working for me, it seems to invalidate the exclusivity we're talking about.

[Lychee]

It's just based on law.

It doesn't matter if you're a good person or even a Christain for that matter - if you study for an exam and know the material, you'll get an A. If you don't know the material, you'll do poorly on the exam.

It doesn't matter if you're a good person or a Christain - you can manipulate the laws of gravity for good or for evil.

Likewise, LOA states that what you focus on you will attract. That's why there are so many "good" people left behind. If you are essentially "good" and are still finding yourself in unfortunate circumstances, you're doing something wrong. There are also "bad" people who are doing well in this world because they are following a certain procedure. It's just what Wattles says in "The Science of Getting Rich." If you follow the Way or the procedure, you will get results.

[newdad]

Likewise, LOA states that what you focus on you will attract. That's why there are so many "good" people left behind. If you are essentially "good" and are still finding yourself in unfortunate circumstances, you're doing something wrong. There are also "bad" people who are doing well in this world because they are following a certain procedure. It's just what Wattles says in "The Science of Getting Rich." If you follow the Way or the procedure, you will get results

Would you say that Jesus wasn't focusing on "good" or didn't do it well enough? Is that why he was betrayed and camed to a quite horrific end? What about all the Saints that dedicated their whole life to doing good and yet endend up meeting some gruesome deaths? Didn't they do good well enough?

The main teaching is that your life is a bunch of crap and evil things will happen to you until you confess to being a dirty sinner, accept Jesus and follow his word and THEN you get LOA type stuff to happen. But it's a special gift only for Christians, and if you stop being Christian, it will stop working.

Again, is this really consistant with the lives of Jesus and the Saints. Seems to me that Christianity doesn't promise anything about you if you believe you will then get LOA stuff and if you stop you lose it. In fact, the major examples of Christianity seem to show quite the Contrary. Jesus, accepted and still evil things happened to Him. The saints accepted his word and evil things happened to them. Job had his faith and evil things happened to him.

why dont you just think for youself? you may have forgotten, but u do have a free will. It's called the frontal lobe and its located just behind your forehead.

I have thought for myself. I've done a great deal of searching and researching. From it I discovered that throughout history their have been many fads, charlotans selling their snake oils, and magic pills throughout history and through it all (depsite various individual corruptions) the church has maintained the fundamental teachings and seen through the various charms of the next great thing. Because they never bought into these fads, I have learned to trust their position and to check it against anything that seems too good to be true. My will is to not get caught up in anything hokey, just because Oprah or some new guru claims something is great. I would rather lend my trust to a collective school of minds that have 2 thousand years of knowledge to draw upon. Listening to good advice is not the same thing as giving up your free will or not thinking for yourself. If somebody tells me that a burner is hot, I'm not going to stick my hand on it just to prove that I have free will.

[starlet]

My friend is a Protestant pastor has now been doing sermons using passages of the Bible that describe LOA. Apparently his "flock" have been having amazing things happen to them after applying LOA to their lives.

Well...he's an odd pastor, he used Harry Potter for Sunday School classes too

[CamC]

Originally Posted by newdad

Would you say that Jesus wasn't focusing on "good" or didn't do it well enough? Is that why he was betrayed and camed to a quite horrific end?

It coulda been worse, like seriously, he coulda been stabbed, like, stabbed, like with a knife or unusually sharp fork.

[Lychee]

Originally Posted by newdad

Would you say that Jesus wasn't focusing on "good" or didn't do it well enough? Is that why he was betrayed and camed to a quite horrific end? What about all the Saints that dedicated their whole life to doing good and yet endend up meeting some gruesome deaths? Didn't they do good well enough?

Law of Attraction is not the only force on the universe. God is in control of all things. We can only use the law to the extent of God's will.

It's not a coincidence that people who do good works have always been the ones with the arrows in their backs. There is a greater force working through us and shaping our lives.

[newdad]

By defenition a law: must be simple, true, universal, absolute. For example, look at the law of gravity. Objects are drawn towards each other in direct proportion to their mass. Simple. Is it true? Drop a rock. Does it fall toward the earth? Yes. The smaller mass of the rock is drawn to the larger mass of the earth. Is it universal? The moon is held in rotation by the forces drawing it towards the earth and the earth is held in rotation around the sun by the forces of the mass of the sun pulling on the earth. This tendancy for objects to be drawn towards each other has been shown evident in other galaxies as well, so I would say, Yes it is universal. Is it absolute? Drop a rock a million times and see if it ever doesn't fall.

Does this criteria hold true for LOA? Or will LOA fail? I feel that LOA has some merit, but not as a way to bend the energies of universe towards your will.

[CamC]

Originally Posted by newdad

I feel that LOA has some merit, but not as a way to bend the energies of universe towards your will.

That comes with the old-school physics assumption that there is a "Universe" separate from our consciousness. No we aren't just individuals bending this thing to our will that is greater than us and outside us. We are the creators.

I think people misinterpret "God" as well. When we say God we are speaking simply of Source Energy, which is, well, everything. This Energy is conscious, intelligent, thinking energy, in which we are a part of. So some could call it God, which is right in a way, but you have to remember we aren't talking about a santa clause looking dude up in the sky whipping us into shape, striking us with lightning if we don't respect his almighty power and giving us a pass/fail grade when we croak. IN FACT, God wouldn't do that to us, simply because we are a part of it. That would be like one of us having a cell in our bodies that offended us, so we punish it by giving it cancer.


To answer your original question, the church would probably reject LoA, because it doesn't fit the mold. Which is unfortunate because Jesus was one of the earlier LoA teachers. "Ask and Believe and you shall receive." something like that was one of his quotes.

But the religion has been translated and altered quite a bit and used for power and control all throughout history, so what's known as "Christianity" today, probably has very little to do with what Jesus actually taught back in the day. It's like when kids sit in a circle around the teacher and play telephone. The teacher whispers a phrase into the ear of the kid to her left and then the phrase goes all around the circle to get to the teacher. Well it's something totally different by the time it gets to the teacher. Some kids misinterpret the information, some do it deliberately (just like in the real world.) Multiply that by 2000 years and you can easily see how accurate the information is. It's clear as day.

[newdad]

Originally Posted by CamC

That comes with the old-school physics assumption that there is a "Universe" separate from our consciousness. No we aren't just individuals bending this thing to our will that is greater than us and outside us. We are the creators.

I think people misinterpret "God" as well. When we say God we are speaking simply of Source Energy, which is, well, everything. This Energy is conscious, intelligent, thinking energy, in which we are a part of. So some could call it God, which is right in a way,

Many peope do misinterpret God. John was already trying to protect us from this misinterpretation before he wrote his Gospel or Revelations. The Gnostics, (who hold your panthiestic view that God is the universe or some thinking Energy.) The Church has had a long battle to hold the original teaching of Jesus in place. The Gnostics had no problem assimilating Jesus's teachings into their own, and with a few changes to some major concepts it is easy to see how the concept of God could get confusing. Then the schism's of the church occured and also helped distort the picture. But, the doctrine of the Catholic church has remained virtually unchanged since the 1st council of Nicea.

One big mistake is in the belief that God is Energy. This is a fallacy. Energy is matter-a physical substance (hence it is studied by physicists)-and God is not a physical being. He is separate from Energy. Energy is His creation.

One thing we agree upon and you've helped further convince me, is that the Chruch would most likely not condone LoA, if it pursued under the premise of tapping into Source Energy.

I do however believe, that if you are a Christian and want to focus on improving yourself you can draw some concepts from LoA. This I believe is due to the LGN which helps filter information. If we give it the task to look for ways to reach our goals, it will do it. Nothing mythical or magical, no more than telling a computer to do a search for a certain word.

[Dating Specialist]

I'm going to be baptised as a Catholic this coming Easter Vigil mass (which is 3 days away!)

I'm not even remotely sure if the Catholic Church has anything to say regarding LOA, but if LOA is all about energy and thought waves, what has it got to do with religion?

I pray to God almost daily and I ask for His blessings.

I also used LOA whenever and wherever to test it's effectiveness as well. Maybe, eventually when I do get what I want, I may not know who to credit for, but so long as it works, that's all that matters!

Maybe I'm simple, but I guess it's a much easier way out and if it achieves results, then I'd gladly remain simple with my faith and beliefs

[newdad]

Originally Posted by Dating Specialist

I'm going to be baptised as a Catholic this coming Easter Vigil mass (which is 3 days away!)

I'm not even remotely sure if the Catholic Church has anything to say regarding LOA, but if LOA is all about energy and thought waves, what has it got to do with religion?

I pray to God almost daily and I ask for His blessings.