objection to law of attraction (pls comment)

[Deaconvert]

I came upon this video on youtube by atheists who reject the law of attraction and talking about oprah. I was thinking maybe they're right.

YouTube - Oprah Is Destroying America! - Atheist Experience 502

[Acting Like Godot]

LOL .... Sorry, I don't watch videos entitled "Oprah is Destroying America".


Oprah ... Out to succeed, where Osama, Satan and the Second World War have failed.

[mikethedrummer44]

These guys don't understand the LoA. They only understand the shallow version as depicted in The Secret. Well, I guess I can't say I'm Atheist anymore!

[Excellent Lodestar]

Thanks for the video.

like the story about Oprah backing down and telling the Cancer patient not to abandon treatment in lieu of LOA.

The point about LOA being more of a religion than anything else is spot on as well.

[cylon]

experience of loa > intellectually wondering if loa works.

[mikej]

why do some people die from cancer while others survive?

[SethWilliams]

Uhm, okay. I dont particulary support the secret because it mis-represents conscious creation completely.

But i dont see how Oprah is destroying america... Where is the parts of america she has destoryed or started to destroy?

It just sounds like some angry guys who are annoyed that people believe differently to them.

And Lol to the idea that LOA is an religion. Oprah is making her own religion out of it, but to say everyone that believes in any version of the LOA is part of that religion is just not true.

[aabbcc]

I certainly don't think of LoA as a religion. It is merely a useful tool to help myself be a happier person and enjoy a better life.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Excellent Lodestar

like the story about Oprah backing down and telling the Cancer patient not to abandon treatment in lieu of LOA.

This is the point that you have missed - your thoughts create your reality entirely. If in your reality you have medical resources eg in the form of doctors and hospitals, then that is what you have attracted.

Therefore available treatment is never "in lieu" of the LOA. Available treatment is available because of the LOA.

[jak3b]

OK, If I change my evil ways and go back to being a putz, do I have to send all stuff I attracted back?

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

Originally Posted by Deaconvert

I came upon this video on youtube by atheists who reject the law of attraction and talking about oprah. I was thinking maybe they're right.

YouTube - Oprah Is Destroying America! - Atheist Experience 502

But they don't use the word "victim" correctly. Victim mentality is about thinking everybody else does stuff to you and it "makes" you feel bad.

Also, I tend to stay away from people who use words like "stupid" - that's like saying something is "nice" or "good" - no meaning in the word, it's a slur.

It is so ironic when atheists get all dogmatic like fundamentalists are. I don't say that in a mocking way, but come on! They sound as attached to their belief system as any southern baptist.

[Mounds]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

This is the point that you have missed - your thoughts create your reality entirely. If in your reality you have medical resources eg in the form of doctors and hospitals, then that is what you have attracted.

Therefore available treatment is never "in lieu" of the LOA. Available treatment is available because of the LOA.

Nah, I don't agree with that for a second. If that was the case, then nothing bad would ever happen to anyone.

[SethWilliams]

Originally Posted by Mounds

Nah, I don't agree with that for a second. If that was the case, then nothing bad would ever happen to anyone.

Right... and how did you come to that conclusion??

[Elrond]

Originally Posted by Excellent Lodestar

The point about LOA being more of a religion than anything else is spot on as well.

The tactic of "framing" the LoA as a religion in order to discredit it is really amusing. But what better way to convince atheists that it is a joke than to say that it is a religion? It is akin to a bishop discrediting something by saying that it is the devil, or the devils work. Haha, how much alike atheists can be to the things that they don't like. Isn't atheism a religion too, though? It claims some metaphysical knowledge by saying that God doesn't exist. A negatively framed metaphysical belief, is still a metaphysical belief. Yep, sounds like it could definitely be viewed as a religion.

Originally Posted by cylon

experience of loa > intellectually wondering if loa works.

So true. I have a loooot to learn in that department.

Originally Posted by Mounds

Nah, I don't agree with that for a second. If that was the case, then nothing bad would ever happen to anyone.

You never think negative thoughts?

[Mounds]

Why would anyone create a reality where they would be pretty much screwed? Starvation and abusive homes *should* cease to exist

[SethWilliams]

Originally Posted by Mounds

Why would anyone create a reality where they would be pretty much screwed? Starvation and abusive homes *should* cease to exist

Because thats what they know? Because thats what they think should happen to them? Because they've never known anything else?

Because they dont know how to change it?

Most people create by default. Not consciously.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Therefore available treatment is never "in lieu" of the LOA. Available treatment is available because of the LOA.

I think some are confusing LOA with Christian Science. "Out of my way, you evil doctors! Curse your medicine!"

I mean if you are sick in the first place you already lost your way. If you believe medicine will truly help you, then it probably would. If you believed something would help you why would you try to "not" use it? That makes no sense to me.

[mikej]

if you're suffering from an illness and you are absolutely convinced it's going to kill you then i don't see how any medical treatment is going to help you.

[cylon]

It all comes down to expectations. Not preference. Expectations.

If what you expect also happens to be your preference, you're all good.
If what you expect is the opposite of your preference, you're in trouble.

[mikej]

yep i agree. conventional medicine has its merits but the role of the mind in healing is all too often overlooked/dismissed by people such as those who made the video posted at the beginning of this thread.

[cylon]

I didn't watch the video. But, I don't have to, I used to BE one of those people. So I get where they are coming from. It's a place of pain and lashing out. But that's ok because I think you have to go through that before you can see the alternatives.

They're still in the "life sucks and I'm all alone in a cold unfeeling universe" stage, and when you experience the world that way there's no way something like LOA COULD make sense to you.

But in my experience once you move through that phase and become more open minded, interesting things happen. But not before.

[mikej]

yes i know what you mean. if someone had told me about the law of attraction 10 years ago it would have been of no use to me whatsoever. i simply wasn't ready for it then but thankfully now i am.

[jak3b]

Originally Posted by cylon

I didn't watch the video. But, I don't have to, I used to BE one of those people. So I get where they are coming from. It's a place of pain and lashing out. But that's ok because I think you have to go through that before you can see the alternatives.

They're still in the "life sucks and I'm all alone in a cold unfeeling universe" stage, and when you experience the world that way there's no way something like LOA COULD make sense to you.

But in my experience once you move through that phase and become more open minded, interesting things happen. But not before.

I hear ya there Cylon.I am definately not religious.I would say I am agnostic- I dont know.My experience with atheists is that they are as dogmatic as religious fundamentalists and to be avoided at all cost;-).

[cylon]

Well, there are people who are atheists who just go about their lives. Not only do they not believe in God, they actually don't care if others believe in God. It's just a non-issue. They have other stuff to focus on than trying assert themselves into someone's experience, basically.

Then there are the "activist" atheists, which is what I used to be. It's just a born-again christian in reverse. Which makes sense, everything needs an opposite. They are missionaries and their main concern is getting everyone to convert to their religion of atheism.

The idea of letting people just be and go about their lives is not considered by religious missionaries or atheist missionaries. Their entire self concept is based on converting people AGAINST their will.

But there are plenty of religious people (and I'm sure atheists) who wouldn't dream of trying to convince anyone of anything or presume to say "you shouldn't believe this".

[Excellent Lodestar]

Originally Posted by cylon

They're still in the "life sucks and I'm all alone in a cold unfeeling universe" stage, and when you experience the world that way there's no way something like LOA COULD make sense to you.

Oh, PLEASE....If anything, when one abandons magical thinking, reality becomes all the more wondrous--no sense of "I'm in control" necessary.

LOA= I'm in control, I'm doing it, me it's my doing...I "chose" it. You did nothing of the sort...life just happens. we're just witnessing it. haven't you noticed? It reeks of EGO out of control to me. Wasn't this discussed in the Tolle thread? the benefits of not letting the 'ego steer the ship?

[cylon]

So my post is a threat to you is what I'll take from this.

That's cool.

Been there, done that.

[Elrond]

Originally Posted by Excellent Lodestar

LOA= I'm in control, I'm doing it, me it's my doing...I "chose" it. You did nothing of the sort...life just happens. we're just witnessing it. haven't you noticed? It reeks of EGO out of control to me. Wasn't this discussed in the Tolle thread? the benefits of not letting the 'ego steer the ship?

Hey, if this religion works for you, all the more power to you man.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Mounds

Why would anyone create a reality where they would be pretty much screwed? Starvation and abusive homes *should* cease to exist

You know, this is such a basic beginner's question that I'm really very surprised that it came from you.

I know you don't subscribe to the theory of LOA, but surely you've been in these forums long enough to at least know what the theory is?

[Acting Like Godot]

Errrr ....

Originally Posted by Excellent Lodestar

LOA= I'm in control, I'm doing it, me it's my doing...I "chose" it.

Actually you're wrong, on practically all counts.

You actually have very little control and discipline over your mind. That is why you're not really in control, not really consciously doing it, not really consciously chosing it.

What the LOA practitioner is attempting is to have a little bit more control and discipline over his thoughts, that is all. The changes in reality then happen accordingly.

Fundamentally, the principles arise from the same framework as Tolle's. It's just that the mental control and discipline that Tolle teaches is about focusing attention on the present.

Whereas in (many) other branches of the LOA, the mental control and discipline is about focusing attention on positive things.

[Mounds]

I actually did watch the video and I have to admit, I was expecting utter trash based on the title of the video. What the guys did do (and I've seen many atheists do) is point out that certain things can be potentially harmful. I sometimes get carried away with my rants () but it is coming from a place of wanting to help others, not lashing out and get angry. It doesn't feel right not to say something.

Originally Posted by cylon

So I get where they are coming from. It's a place of pain and lashing out.

They're still in the "life sucks and I'm all alone in a cold unfeeling universe" stage, and when you experience the world that way there's no way something like LOA COULD make sense to you.

I guess that's your personal experience. I feel a lot differently than what your describing here. I'm happy as can be