objection to law of attraction (pls comment)

[Excellent Lodestar]

Originally Posted by Mounds

What the guys did do (and I've seen many atheists do) is point out that certain things can be potentially harmful. it is coming from a place of wanting to help others, not lashing out and get angry. It doesn't feel right not to say something.
I guess that's your personal experience. I feel a lot differently than what your describing here. I'm happy as can be

Exactly. Apparently,though we're "threatened" by magical thinking..

[cylon]

I said YOU were threatened by my post. Not Mounds.

[hamworld05]

Originally Posted by mikej

why do some people die from cancer while others survive?

Cancer is a result of eating wrong for your metabolic type. People shouldn't even be getting it.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Mounds

What the guys did do (and I've seen many atheists do) is point out that certain things can be potentially harmful.

Yeah, like, Oprah's really harmful, she can destroy large nations in their entirety etc etc.

[mikej]

Originally Posted by hamworld05

Cancer is a result of eating wrong for your metabolic type. People shouldn't even be getting it.

fair enough, if that's what you believe.

[Mounds]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Yeah, like, Oprah's really harmful, she can destroy large nations in their entirety etc etc.

Actually that's what immediately turned me off the video. Oprah has as good a chance at destroying America as I do of destroying the boards.

[inri]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Errrr ....



Actually you're wrong, on practically all counts.

You actually have very little control and discipline over your mind. That is why you're not really in control, not really consciously doing it, not really consciously chosing it.

What the LOA practitioner is attempting is to have a little bit more control and discipline over his thoughts, that is all. The changes in reality then happen accordingly.

Fundamentally, the principles arise from the same framework as Tolle's. It's just that the mental control and discipline that Tolle teaches is about focusing attention on the present.

Whereas in (many) other branches of the LOA, the mental control and discipline is about focusing attention on positive things.

Really nicely said.

Just love it when I encounter a really obvious theme through sychronicity. I layed in bed last night thinking about how Tolle's approach really was just a different spin on the law of attraction. A few minutes ago I just found and commented on a thread about Eckhart Tolle and now this! Cool. I know there's a message in there somewhere!

You are so right, Tolle's approach really does lead us to the same place as LOA..... of being able to see that we consciously create our reality and thus do it.

I've always found that practicing present moment awareness has the ability to almost instantly raise my vibration and take me to a place of joyful being...interesting how when the immediate goal is not so much to feel good, but to just 'be' the end result IS feeling really, really good.

Okay, now I may have to revise my post about not resonating so much Tolle.

[modosansreves]

Using Law of Attraction, that's consciously creating your reality goes very aligned with the actions of your own.

There is a hidden catch or - better to say - an absence of explanation how the LOA works that makes some people fool themselves and others to say LOA is BS.

[vinceh]

Originally Posted by inri

I layed in bed last night thinking about how Tolle's approach really was just a different spin on the law of attraction.

You are so right, Tolle's approach really does lead us to the same place as LOA..... of being able to see that we consciously create our reality and thus do it.

It's interesting that you find Tolle's approach to be compatible with LOA. I've heard he's referred to the LOA in his talks.

His book, the Power of Now, falls squarely in the non-duality field. Most non-duality teachers and people do not follow the LOA, as they feel that the universal source lives through them, and they don't necessarily have control over what happens.

In fact, the biggest argument they have against the LOA is that it places the ego on the throne. But that's an entirely different subject and a can of worms on an IM board.

In the end, i think it's neat you find the similarities between the two, as the application of the material through experience is the only thing that matters.

[inri]

Originally Posted by vinceh

It's interesting that you find Tolle's approach to be compatible with LOA. I've heard he's referred to the LOA in his talks.

His book, the Power of Now, falls squarely in the non-duality field. Most non-duality teachers and people do not follow the LOA, as they feel that the universal source lives through them, and they don't necessarily have control over what happens.

In fact, the biggest argument they have against the LOA is that it places the ego on the throne. But that's an entirely different subject and a can of worms on an IM board.

In the end, i think it's neat you find the similarities between the two, as the application of the material through experience is the only thing that matters.

I believe both approaches or paths have us ending up at the same place. They absolutely are different approaches though. When we expand our consciousness to the level where we see ourselves and our entire reality as a mirror of our own consciousness, we therefore connect with the creator within.

Both paths imo take us to this realization. You're right...... The difference between the 2 lies in our response to that realization.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by vinceh

His book, the Power of Now, falls squarely in the non-duality field.

But the LOA is non-dual.

It tells you that everything in your reality is attracted/created by your thoughts. There is no "other" aspect of reality that operates separately.

[Excellent Lodestar]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

But the LOA is non-dual.

It tells you that everything in your reality is attracted/created by your thoughts. There is no "other" aspect of reality that operates separately.

Here we go again..Now LOA is nondual? Wow. just, wow. Is that what LOA tells us? I don't think so...
LOA is about a DUAL as it gets..."I want this, I want that.."

If you believed it was "all one" there'd be nothing to get, no objects or states to "attain", but LOA says "you can have this"...and if you don't, YOU'RE doing it wrong. Seriously, how is that non dual? .. just more Magical thinking, making it up as we go along---Not that there's anything "wrong" with that of course.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Excellent Lodestar

Here we go again..Now LOA is nondual? Wow. just, wow. Is that what LOA tells us? I don't think so...
LOA is about a DUAL as it gets..."I want this, I want that.."

If you believed it was "all one" there'd be nothing to get, no objects or states to "attain", but LOA says "you can have this"...and if you don't, YOU'RE doing it wrong. Seriously, how is that non dual? .. just more Magical thinking, making it up as we go along---Not that there's anything "wrong" with that of course.

Don't get excited, Lodestar. If you see it as dual, then it is - for you. You create your own reality.

I don't see it as dual. The way that thought can summon resources out of the blue; create opportunities out of thin air etc etc already indicates that the universe is intimately connected with itself. Everything is connected to everything; that is why thoughts have such great creative power. Because thought itself is connected to everything.

It's like the blue feather experiment, you know? You visualise a blue feather, and then later, the universe delivers a blue feather. This is how intimately the entire universe is connected to itself - that mere thought can arrange the delivery of a blue feather, right to where you are, and when you are there.

Think also along the lines of quantum entanglement - and you know this is a key part of how the LOA works - and you'll see how non-dual the LOA is. Distance and time don't matter - the LOA operates across all those perceptions of separation.

[Excellent Lodestar]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Don't get excited, Lodestar. If you see it as dual, then it is - for you. You create your own reality.

Ah, THAT"S RIGHT!! ..what was i thinking? my bad.

[inri]

Originally Posted by Excellent Lodestar

Here we go again..Now LOA is nondual? Wow. just, wow. Is that what LOA tells us? I don't think so...
LOA is about a DUAL as it gets..."I want this, I want that.."

If you believed it was "all one" there'd be nothing to get, no objects or states to "attain", but LOA says "you can have this"...and if you don't, YOU'RE doing it wrong. Seriously, how is that non dual? .. just more Magical thinking, making it up as we go along---Not that there's anything "wrong" with that of course.

What many seem to forget is that Having a desire for enlightenment is to still have desire. A desire for the experience of oneness is still a desire. The desire for inner peace is still a desire. All of these desires emanate from an overall desire to move towards the light....or in physical terms....towards that which 'feels good.'

Imo, LOA is non-dual. If we see the ego, expanded consciousness, desires and the law of attraction itself all as 'God' or parts of the ALL, we are then free to 'play' within the dream.

I liken this to becoming lucid within a dream while sleeping. I do this often and have made a point to conduct little mini-experiments within the dream. From the vantage point of fully knowing that I am both the dreamer AND the source of the dream itself, I can choose how to operate within the dream.

I can choose to simply 'be' and allow the dream to unfold on it's own accord...which is really on 'my' own accord...I simply have the temporary illusion of detaching myself & my consciousness from the unfolding of the dream..... OR I can consciously create the dream scenario and all it's action and participants in a manner that I find pleasing.

I've found that when we really get a grasp on LOA, and begin to grow really proficient at creating our reality as we choose, it becomes very evident that it's all just kind of a dream and the importance of desires themselves begin to naturally take on less significance. They seem to become more like preferences rather than 'needs.' That doesn't mean though that we can't have fun with them and derive some pleasure from them....it just means that we don't suffer or become impatient when their manifestation seems to evade us.

The end result of this lack of attachment to the outcome, actually only serves to speed up our manifestations. We then reach a point where our consciousness is aligned with our every experience.....we experience oneness!! At this point, we merely think about a preference and we seem to walk into a reality where we experience it.

Like I've said before, I really think the two camps lead us to the same place....of recognizing oneness consciousness.

[vinceh]

Originally Posted by inri

What many seem to forget is that Having a desire for enlightenment is to still have desire. A desire for the experience of oneness is still a desire. The desire for inner peace is still a desire.

I agree. We can go on for years wanting spiritual enlightenment, when it may be only a more refined version of wanting a lot of money or a new car.

It reminds me of a great quote:

"True desire is desire for reunion with God, desire for truth, desire for an end to suffering. This true desire is the core of all other distorted and misplaced desires. If passion for truth is not recognized, then all the distorted imitations of true passion, all the other usual passions of greed, hate, lust, and envy, arise and lead to suffering." - Gangaji

I interpret true desire to be your soul's intention, which may bring about things which aren't necessarily comfortable, but serve your evolution. Whereas a lot of wants are generated by the egoic mind.

At this point, we merely think about a preference and we seem to walk into a reality where we experience it.

That would be nice. It seems that allowance is the key. If the want is generated by the egoic mind (which in its nature grasps and fixates), letting go is going to be tough. You have to find a way to transcend it to the place of allowing.

[Showtime]

If anything Oprah singlehandedly started the Age of Awakening.

At least by promoting other peoples' work.

[Excellent Lodestar]

Originally Posted by inri

Imo, LOA is non-dual. If we see the ego, expanded consciousness, desires and the law of attraction itself all as 'God' or parts of the ALL, we are then free to 'play' within the dream.

Absolutely agree 100%. The "problem" is that..that's a BIG ""If"...

I don't think, based on what I hear from people that they have that realization that "it's all one". Lip service is one thing, true realization is another. The clues that realization isn't there is the apparent stress that's caused when LOA doesn't "work"...look at the threads around here..."why isn't this working?.." etc.

[Mounds]

I'm going to throw a bit of a curve ball into this thread. Some people have a tendency to move towards pleasure while others have a tendency to move away from pain.
Basically, not all desire is wanting to move towards something. Some is moving away from something.

-Tim

[a muse]

Originally Posted by mikej

why do some people die from cancer while others survive?

Acid/Alkaline balance. Nothing more; nothing less.

[a muse]

Originally Posted by Mounds

I'm going to throw a bit of a curve ball into this thread. Some people have a tendency to move towards pleasure while others have a tendency to move away from pain.
Basically, not all desire is wanting to move towards something. Some is moving away from something.

-Tim

and the best thing to do is simply stand still LOL

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Mounds

Some is moving away from something.

-Tim

Does that mean you're not gonna get me a beer?

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Excellent Lodestar

I don't think, based on what I hear from people that they have that realization that "it's all one". Lip service is one thing, true realization is another.

I agree.

And your statement is correct, whether the person had obtained his "realisation" from "The Power of Now", or from "The Secret".

[inri]

Originally Posted by Excellent Lodestar

Absolutely agree 100%. The "problem" is that..that's a BIG ""If"...

I don't think, based on what I hear from people that they have that realization that "it's all one". Lip service is one thing, true realization is another. The clues that realization isn't there is the apparent stress that's caused when LOA doesn't "work"...look at the threads around here..."why isn't this working?.." etc.

But it's all part of the process. There is really never any place we could ever be on the path towards enlightenment that is 'wrong.' One step, or more accurately, one EXPERIENCE leads us another rung up the ladder. It's only by experiencing the pain of thinking that we MUST control our reality that we can ever expand to a knowing that it's simply not necessary for us to truly be in joy.

Oneness realization only occurs through having experiences that lead us there. Even an intensely materialistic phase has it's merits. It's only through desiring physical 'things' and then getting them that we will come to realize that they are not in and of themselves the end all and be all.

I believe Those who resonate with the loa do so because they are on the cusp of the realization of oneness consciousness. The first step to knowing that it's all one energy is to realize yourself as the creator of all that you experience personally. From there the awareness of oneness will expand.

[ilivenow]

Hi, I feel compelled to respond... Deaconvert! The Law of Attraction works wether coming from a Purpose of light or a purpose of darkness--a Darkwalker or as a Lightwalker, as Steve Pavlina, if I may, may describe the split between consciousness. The Law of Attraction is never-changing. Our individual interpretations of how to use these gifts determines the outcome. The universe see's ONLY the good in It's offerings--the promise of Love and Goodness! Of course, human nature for some is to abuse it. This is why we have the power of "choice". Hope I helped some

[Andrew Brunelle]

I don't think Oprah is destroying America. I don't think The Secret made the world turn off its axis. The Secret is a overly simplistic version of the Law of Attraction. And Oprah has the right to say what she thinks and believes like anyone else, although she has far more influence than your non-celebrity human being. If something works for you, keep doing it. If it doesn't, then don't do it.

The Law of Attraction has worked for so many people, including myself in some situations. And it was impossible to explain these things that happened any other way. Atheist Youtube videos aren't going to sway my opinion about the Law of Attraction. I don't see how you can point the finger at Oprah anyway. What did she do to destroy America, other than endlessly talk about herself?

[Vaganova]

How does LoA work with Darkworkers?

[moonrambler]

Heads up, the original post was made over a year ago

[raykilleen]

Originally Posted by inri

Really nicely said.

Just love it when I encounter a really obvious theme through sychronicity.

Perhaps ones awareness of synchronicity is simply intrinsic Advaita/Nonduality.

[Silverhammer]

Any good idea or universal "truth" can be dangerous when overgeneralized, bastardized, taken too literally, and/or dumbed-down for the masses. Isn't this what any fundamentalist does with his or her well-intentioned religion?