Nature / Nurture vs. Manifestation ?

[old dead wood]

For example: the person who is missing an arm desires to grow another arm, the world's shortest man strongly desires to become a pro basketball player, or a short, poor, fat bald man wishes to date the type of woman that would tend to go more for the rich, tall, athletic man with a nice head of hair. So, you would have to admit, WOULDN'T YOU, that one's "nature /nature" qualities are going to play MORE PRE-DOMINANTLY in the results of one's intention / manifestation projects, don't you think ? I am surprised I am even asking this question, since the answer seems so obvious, but there may be some people who tend to think that the LAWS-OF-ATTRACTION can do anything. It still seems like a numbers / averages game, and in order to be successful with intention-manifestation, one would have to stand a "reasonable" chance, by society / group-think standards, to achieve the intended goal, EVEN WITHOUT USING ANY law-of-attraction methods.

[nicbrahms]

Its all in the perspective, adopt the perspective required and you can acheive anything.

[escapeplan]

Originally Posted by old dead wood

For example: the person who is missing an arm desires to grow another arm, the world's shortest man strongly desires to become a pro basketball player, or a short, poor, fat bald man wishes to date the type of woman that would tend to go more for the rich, tall, athletic man with a nice head of hair. So, you would have to admit, WOULDN'T YOU, that one's "nature /nature" qualities are going to play MORE PRE-DOMINANTLY in the results of one's intention / manifestation projects, don't you think ? I am surprised I am even asking this question, since the answer seems so obvious, but there may be some people who tend to think that the LAWS-OF-ATTRACTION can do anything. It still seems like a numbers / averages game, and in order to be successful with intention-manifestation, one would have to stand a "reasonable" chance, by society / group-think standards, to achieve the intended goal, EVEN WITHOUT USING ANY law-of-attraction methods.

Of course you're right. I haven't yet seen any convincing cases for IM which can be put down to anything other than co-incidence (others claim to have done). You have a power to change your life within certain parameters, but that's more to do with the old fashioned qualities of courage, hard work and determination. The essence of PD.

[aabbcc]

Originally Posted by escapeplan

I haven't yet seen any convincing cases for IM which can be put down to anything other than co-incidence (others claim to have done).

Most things manifest in very ordinary ways. Even if something is a co-incidence, so what? Does it really matter how it comes about? You are still seeing the result of your intention.

A while ago, I put out the intention to get back a favourite book that I thought was gone forever. The next day I found that book in a bookshelf in my cousin's basement. Maybe this incident was nothing but a co-incidence, but I didn't care. It certainly didn't diminish my happiness in the outcome.

[escapeplan]

Originally Posted by aabbcc

Most things manifest in very ordinary ways. Even if something is a co-incidence, so what? Does it really matter how it comes about? You are still seeing the result of your intention.

A while ago, I put out the intention to get back a favourite book that I thought was gone forever. The next day I found that book in a bookshelf in my cousin's basement. Maybe this incident was nothing but a co-incidence, but I didn't care. It certainly didn't diminish my happiness in the outcome.

No I understand that- and in situations you describe there is no harm at all. But there is potential harm in hoping for things you will never get (take the OP as an example of such things).

Next point... Yes actually it does matter how things manifest, because as I keep saying, every day of your life spent is time you won't get back. If there are more efficient ways of obtaining our desires, why waste time on wishful thinking or luck?

[Elrond]

meh, I've had enough with going back and forth with what is and what isn't theoretically possible when it comes to this. When all is said and done, it is something to be used as a tool, not something to philosophise (spelling?) over (at least for most people). Threads like these usually fails big time at convincing or even getting through to anyone on both sides.


Shun the non-believers !!

[escapeplan]

Originally Posted by Elrond

meh, I've had enough with going back and forth with what is and what isn't theoretically possible when it comes to this. When all is said and done, it is something to be used as a tool, not something to philosophise (spelling?) over (at least for most people). Threads like these usually fails big time at convincing or even getting through to anyone on both sides.


Shun the non-believers !!

It's not a tool though is it- it's a religion.

[aabbcc]

Originally Posted by escapeplan

Next point... Yes actually it does matter how things manifest, because as I keep saying, every day of your life spent is time you won't get back. If there are more efficient ways of obtaining our desires, why waste time on wishful thinking or luck?

Well, I think there is a difference in putting out a specific intention and mere wishful thinking, but I suppose that would depend on the person and what it is they are intending.

I am currently in the process of manifesting something that would otherwise take me another seven years to accomplish. Thanks to LoA, I now can achieve it fairly quickly, probably by the end of this year. This is coming about because, just for fun, I put out the intention for a big wonderful surprise. What I am getting truly is wonderful and not something I would have thought to put out an intention for. When it comes to completion, I will post more about what it is.

[Elrond]

Originally Posted by escapeplan

It's not a tool though is it- it's a religion.

depends on how you use it... or rather, whether you actually use it or not.

If you use it to enhance your life, it's a tool. If you use it to sooth yourself, then you're using it as a belief-system/religion/philosophy/[insert a nickname that you feel puts it in an appropriately negative or positive light according to your own beliefs ]

[Concolitanos]

I like to think of IM as surfing probability. Every moment is the collapse of a wave of probability and how things unfold is highly dependent on how things currently are. Although, anything is possible. I recall watching an interview with a physicist and it shocked me when he said that there was a probability that he could be instantly transported to Mars. That probability, of course, was extremely small. That statement sparked in me that anything really is possible.

Anyway, IM is about using intention to play the numbers, to increase the odds of a certain event occurring. So, theoretically, yes, a one-armed man could will his other arm to grow back but it would take such a monumental amount of focus and certainty (likely a superhuman amount) that it wouldn't be worth the result... maybe 1000 years from now, such results will be within the realm of practicality.

But to answer the OP's leading questions, yes, I don't work with the LoA because it can only do what will likely happen anyway

[Anagogy]

Originally Posted by Concolitanos

I like to think of IM as surfing probability. Every moment is the collapse of a wave of probability and how things unfold is highly dependent on how things currently are. Although, anything is possible. I recall watching an interview with a physicist and it shocked me when he said that there was a probability that he could be instantly transported to Mars. That probability, of course, was extremely small. That statement sparked in me that anything really is possible.

Anyway, IM is about using intention to play the numbers, to increase the odds of a certain event occurring. So, theoretically, yes, a one-armed man could will his other arm to grow back but it would take such a monumental amount of focus and certainty (likely a superhuman amount) that it wouldn't be worth the result... maybe 1000 years from now, such results will be within the realm of practicality.

But to answer the OP's leading questions, yes, I don't work with the LoA because it can only do what will likely happen anyway

This post mirrors my thoughts almost exactly on the subject of probability vs. possibility.

However, I do use the LOA and believe that the "what is likely to happen" part is dependent on our skill in choosing our focus. Most of the general population cannot think, focus, or believe whatever they like with perfect clarity because we are just not that skilled at it yet. It is much easier to let your thoughts go hog wild than to practice bringing them perfectly focused upon that which you want to happen.

I believe it is possible with practice to develop this to a high degree. I have no doubt their are masters walking about our world who can perform what would be to us highly improbable manifestations, or miracles in other-words, but to them it is ordinary ability.

[Concolitanos]

Originally Posted by Anagogy

However, I do use the LOA and believe that the "what is likely to happen" part is dependent on our skill in choosing our focus.

Hehe, just wanted to add that I was being facetious. I have been working with IM/LoA for over a year now. I haven't gotten much beyond alpha ripples so far but when I look at the bigger picture, I see that my life over the past year or so has been strongly directed toward healing. It's been pretty subtle actually; almost as though some deeper force has decided that it's time to address my various psychic wounds. My ego, on the other hand, wants wealth and Ms. Right

[MissEmpress]

Originally Posted by escapeplan

It's not a tool though is it- it's a religion.

Well for me, it isn't.

Being someone who is educated, likes playing devil's advocate, is a researcher by nature and training, I hardly take anything at face value and I LOVE to understand how things work, pose questions, point out loopholes, see various sides and angles to situations and questions etc. That's me.

The biggest thing for me though is understanding and realizing there are really different angles to look at things from and that angle will determine what you're seeing. Your understanding, language capabilities, personal history and other personal nuances will also affect your explanation of what you see. Describing a building from the frontal view and from the back you will get different descriptions that may seem contradictory but nevertheless it is the same building and still 100 others could try to do the same and come up with various other descriptions, some more colorful, boring, etc than others. An architect will describe it differently than a realtor and so on and so forth.

With that being said, I am OPEN to various theories and philosophies as such is life, variety is the spice of life and there are many ways to skin a cat, if you will. But as one poster said, and I also agree, while I do enjoy scholarly discussions and theorizing and I love a good debate; that has nothing to do with how I actually live my life. I don't have to understand something in its entirety in order for me to put it into practice and my understanding of it doesn't affect it's usefulness. I have no idea the actual mechanics of how the internet actually works and to be honest, while it would be interesting to know and certainly fun to find out, at this time I don't really care, so long as I am able to use it and navigate it and get what I need to get from it. I am knowledgeable in it's use up to a point that I need to be. Everything else is not really necessary at this time.

I certainly am not into proselytizing. I can share personal experience and encouragement and advocacy about ANY area (not just LOA) if asked to do so; however, it doesn't bother me if someone doesn't find it useful. It is not anything to "believe" in and and certainly someone else's belief or value in whatever it is, won't affect my own. One can take whatever path one chooses, most times none is right or wrong, although I do find certain things MORE useful than others. As you've said, you do not find LOA efficient for your purposes...good. Some others may find it useful for theirs, good. I have my way of doing things that work for me and my abilities, talents, mentality etc that are completely useless to someone else.

So yea....LOA isn't my religion but these discussions do remind me of many of the discussions on Christian vs. Atheists discussion boards. All I have to say is, you "believe" or practice what you will, and you engage in debates and discussion because it is good to flex your thinking muscles and articulation skills, but when it gets to the point of being hung up on attacking and disproving this or that is when one's reasoning behind what one claims to be doing is skewed and not coming from a place of simple curiosity and need to expand one's mind....but the same exact place that wars over religion comes from i.e. BOTH SIDES believing they hold the ultimate truth and are right...that is the simple answer. Being agnostic is better off or being open at least and realizing your way is one of many and not the ultimate. If one believes that then there would be nothing to argue over, since no one in real life argues about whether chocolate is better than vanilla, since it is one of many many flavor preferences and neither is right or wrong.