Think and Grow Rich's Auto-suggestion Instruction too specific?

[attractabundance]

Below is the suggestion from TGR, link: Think and Grow Rich: Chapter 4. Auto-Suggestion (The Third Step toward Riches)

It seems the part about "rendering the fullest possible quantity ... in the capacity of ___" might be too specific to how the money will manifest? Is there a better/updated phrasing more in line with IM/LOA?

"By the first day of January, 19.., I will have in my possession $50,000, which will come to me in various amounts from time to time during the interim.

"In return for this money I will give the most efficient service of which I am capable, rendering the fullest possible quantity, and the best possible quality of service in the capacity of salesman of . . . . . . . . . . . (describe the service or merchandise you intend to sell).

"I believe that I will have this money in my possession. My faith is so strong that I can now see this money before my eyes. I can touch it with my hands. It is now awaiting transfer to me at the time, and in the proportion that I deliver the service I intend to render in return for it. I am awaiting a plan by which to accumulate this money, and I will follow that plan, when it is received."

[kenny r]

I'd be willing to try, "As quickly and effortlessly as possible, $50,000 or more comes to me" and leave what I will do in exchange, and all the other details to unfold however they do. Maybe I won't have to do anything in exchange!

[HeartExalted]

One thing that, in my opinion, makes Hill's stuff different from most LoA material is the emphasis he places on the necessity of giving something. Of course, when you manifest, you often do end up giving something, but sometimes in foreseeable ways.

[Lionman]

Originally Posted by HeartExalted

One thing that, in my opinion, makes Hill's stuff different from most LoA material is the emphasis he places on the necessity of giving something. Of course, when you manifest, you often do end up giving something, but sometimes in foreseeable ways.

He just goes more in depth on the mechanics of the manifestation.

When you read it you can see that one of the first steps is deciding how much money you want to have and imagining as if it's real and you are in possession of it right now.

Then he goes how you have to pay the 'price' for that amount of money, and the idea of what to do will come to you.

This is pure unadulterated darkworking btw

[attractabundance]

Thanks for the replies! Yes, Hill's approach not only focuses on thoughts and feelings, essentially vibrations, but also involves the various character ethics and actions necessary for success such as persistence, mastermind, decision, overcoming fears.

When I watched Steve's video on creating abundance and visualizing a new reality, I see similarities such as visualization, feeling as if it has already happened, and seeing yourself as the kind of person congruent with the new reality.

It seems Abraham-Hicks focuses mainly on feeling good, and being open to how things can manifest in various and even unexpected ways.

[slumberland]

Originally Posted by Lionman

This is pure unadulterated darkworking btw

How so?

[Lionman]

Originally Posted by slumberland

How so?

Focusing on receiving a certain amount of money is inflow. It's something you're receiving. Having inflow as your original intention is darkworking in Steve's terms.

It's fair common sense that to receive something you will have to put something out such as designing a product or providing a service.

Steve's written about this in his blog post "Polarization":

Polarized inflow [darkworking]: In this situation you focus your attention on the inflow. Your intention is aligned with getting, acquiring, or achieving. Your inward flow of energy causes an associated energetic response from the universe, so this energetic debt must flow back out of you again. In this case the compensating return flow will be some kind of payback. It may be an outward flow of money, work to be completed, the manifestation of competitors, etc. The rule for this polarity is: we live in a competitive world, and you have to look out for number one.

So in terms of Think and Grow Rich your number one intention is a certain amount of money. This is focusing on the inflow. And then you get inspired action as a result, which is the means to manifest the money. This is the energetic debt as mentioned above. The work to be completed to achieve the money.

Darkworking.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Lionman

It's fair common sense that to receive something you will have to put something out such as designing a product or providing a service.

It is common sense but LOA doesn't work with rules and conditions like that. I like TAGR but it is very much from a time where it was considered a sin to not be a businessman or providing service in order to be thought appropriate to life.

That's like God is up in the sky watching our every move, "bad boy! You did not provide a product or service! No LOA for you!"

LOA seems to work just because you want stuff, and doesn't care if you did work or not because the work, the money, and you are all illusory anyway.

The entire concept of money is an illusion. I don't think there's a Santa Clause at the other end keeping a list of naughty and nice to decide who the money flows to.

The money flows to you naturally, without any effort, because the money IS you, or "the larger part of you" as Abraham might put it.

The "how" is what seems to trip everyone up. It's like if you say "just allow it, let it come to you naturally" people can't handle it. They need to be in control of the how because they deep down don't actually believe in this LOA stuff. If they did, just allowing wouldn't be an issue. "Get out of your own way and allow" "No! I need to be doing something to earn my money!"

[Lionman]

Originally Posted by cylon

It is common sense but LOA doesn't work with rules and conditions like that. I like TAGR but it is very much from a time where it was considered a sin to not be a businessman or providing service in order to be thought appropriate to life.

That's like God is up in the sky watching our every move, "bad boy! You did not provide a product or service! No LOA for you!"

LOA seems to work just because you want stuff, and doesn't care if you did work or not because the work, the money, and you are all illusory anyway.

The entire concept of money is an illusion. I don't think there's a Santa Clause at the other end keeping a list of naughty and nice to decide who the money flows to.

The money flows to you naturally, without any effort, because the money IS you, or "the larger part of you" as Abraham might put it.

The "how" is what seems to trip everyone up. It's like if you say "just allow it, let it come to you naturally" people can't handle it. They need to be in control of the how because they deep down don't actually believe in this LOA stuff. If they did, just allowing wouldn't be an issue. "Get out of your own way and allow" "No! I need to be doing something to earn my money!"

Sure, this is the whole is action required debate, and is frankly extremely deep. I know when I look around at who's got the most cash, they've all done a lot of stuff. Movie stars, oil barons, hedge fund managers...

But then again some people win the lottery. But we can't all win the lottery surely... then what kind of society would we live in? *barring the fact that not everyone can win the lottery obviously*

[cylon]

The world works according to your beliefs. You take an internal belief and externalize it into the "outside world".

You create everything to begin with. The whole world. You create the universe, but you don't consciously try to make the sun rise or set, it just does naturally, because you believe it will.

And those beliefs are very solid. Rarely, if ever, would you question if the sun would rise or set. You just take it for granted. And that's all you, witnessing your creation, and taking it for granted to the point you forgot you created it to begin with.

Just like all the people "out there" you created, who seem to have all the money that you also created. You never question the fact that "they" will always have the cash because of the things they "did". You take that belief for granted and so create a world where that is how it is.

But you don't have to provide a product or service to experience the world that way. You think there is separation, and that you must earn a living, and that is reflected back to you. For free.

[oasis]

Originally Posted by cylon

The world works according to your beliefs. You take an internal belief and externalize it into the "outside world".

You create everything to begin with. The whole world. You create the universe, but you don't consciously try to make the sun rise or set, it just does naturally, because you believe it will.

And those beliefs are very solid. Rarely, if ever, would you question if the sun would rise or set. You just take it for granted. And that's all you, witnessing your creation, and taking it for granted to the point you forgot you created it to begin with.

Just like all the people "out there" you created, who seem to have all the money that you also created. You never question the fact that "they" will always have the cash because of the things they "did". You take that belief for granted and so create a world where that is how it is.

But you don't have to provide a product or service to experience the world that way. You think there is separation, and that you must earn a living, and that is reflected back to you. For free.

Though isn't it the higher consciousness that over-encompasses every individual and connects them who creates the world? You're just a filter for that entity. So to change those beliefs you'd need to go very deep down (like the sun setting)

[oasis]

Originally Posted by oasis

Though isn't it the higher consciousness that over-encompasses every individual and connects them who creates the world? You're just a filter for that entity. So to change those beliefs you'd need to go very deep down (like the sun setting)

I guess that is SR, just the "entity" is aware of what every1 is doing and how they will co-ordinate with one another

[cylon]

Originally Posted by oasis

Though isn't it the higher consciousness that over-encompasses every individual and connects them who creates the world? You're just a filter for that entity. So to change those beliefs you'd need to go very deep down (like the sun setting)

Your beliefs change when you see how what you thought was one way can be something else. But most people aren't willing to see the evidence even when it's presented to them.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by oasis

I guess that is SR, just the "entity" is aware of what every1 is doing and how they will co-ordinate with one another

This is true but it works pretty easily because there aren't any people. The entity is the people. It doesn't really need to coordinate because it's only changing itself, no one else.

And you are that entity. Which means you form a belief and the world naturally, without any effort, starts reflecting it back to you.

[Lionman]

Originally Posted by cylon

The world works according to your beliefs. You take an internal belief and externalize it into the "outside world".

You create everything to begin with. The whole world. You create the universe, but you don't consciously try to make the sun rise or set, it just does naturally, because you believe it will.

And those beliefs are very solid. Rarely, if ever, would you question if the sun would rise or set. You just take it for granted. And that's all you, witnessing your creation, and taking it for granted to the point you forgot you created it to begin with.

Just like all the people "out there" you created, who seem to have all the money that you also created. You never question the fact that "they" will always have the cash because of the things they "did". You take that belief for granted and so create a world where that is how it is.

But you don't have to provide a product or service to experience the world that way. You think there is separation, and that you must earn a living, and that is reflected back to you. For free.

Yeah see this is where it gets interesting because it has solipsist undertones.
If you believed the Sun would rise as a giant donut, then it would. But everyone else would have to believe the same thing or else it would go against their beliefs.

That's when you say: "but you are one consciousness, we are all one and you're not your ego, there are no other people."

Ok, so if everyone is part of one consciousness, then by one consciousness changing its belief then everyone would change their beliefs and the sun is a donut.

Which begs the question... would one consciousness desire to change its belief that the sun is a giant donut?

If the answer is "probably not", then how can we say it would change its beliefs about money? Is the desire to change the belief about money stemming from ego and therefore powerless in the face of one consciousness?

If not, and you can change the sun into a donut and the 'rules' about money where the desire probably comes from ego... ergo solipsism undertones, your ego would therefore have to be the center of the universe.

[cylon]

Well, you DON't believe the sun is a donut. The belief in the sun is about as certain of a belief you are ever going to have. Thinking it is a donut is a fun idea but there is no way you would ever be able to consciously convince yourself of something like that. So your example can't really go anywhere.

The solipsist stuff is all about the intellect. People think their brain, their conscious thoughts are changing their reality. But it's not that, it's the awareness underneath, the actual vibration, that is creating everything.

Conscious thought is the final outlet of the vibration. An emotion like joy is not a conscious thought. It's a feeling that is hard to describe with words, but when you experience it, you know just what it is. It's not a "brain" thing. Abundance, wealth, feeling rich... it is a feeling of prosperity. It's not words in your head. It's literally feeling the wealth and riches inside of you.

So you feel that stuff (or you feel sadness, or poverty consciousness) and that emotion becomes strong enough that you are so aware of it that it works its way up to conscious thought where you can put a nice label on it and say "I feel rich today." But the actual words themselves, are just pointing to what is really going on... that feeling of prosperity.

So when you talk about the donut, you aren't describing a deep vibration of the sun being a donut. It's in your conscious thought, your what if's. But it's not at the deep vibrational level. It's just words.

As far as one consciousness changing and then everyone else starting to have the same belief, yes that is what happens. But it's more "wow, I didn't realize so many people agreed with me on this topic!" You're creating the world, and the people, to agree with you.

If they all agreed with you, all at once, it would scare the crap out of you because that is just too much of a change in your reality. That fear of reality changing all at once is the exact reason we create a reality where change is slow, or that it's conditional, or that you must sell a product or service. We have to slow it down in order for our conscious minds to handle the experience.

[Lionman]

Originally Posted by cylon

The solipsist stuff is all about the intellect. People think their brain, their conscious thoughts are changing their reality. But it's not that, it's the awareness underneath, the actual vibration, that is creating everything.

Yeah, gotcha. Manifestation down the levels with the physical being the crystallization if you will.

Conscious thought is the final outlet of the vibration. An emotion like joy is not a conscious thought. It's a feeling that is hard to describe with words, but when you experience it, you know just what it is. It's not a "brain" thing. Abundance, wealth, feeling rich... it is a feeling of prosperity. It's not words in your head. It's literally feeling the wealth and riches inside of you.

Yes, this ties in with the view of the astral body/realm and how it resonates with emotional substance.

So when you talk about the donut, you aren't describing a deep vibration of the sun being a donut. It's in your conscious thought, your what if's. But it's not at the deep vibrational level. It's just words.

I see where you're coming from. It's a bit specific I suppose... the sun donut thing. I suppose the vibrations behind it would be a sense of overwhelming power that you managed to do such a thing.

To intend it, like anything else, you'd imagine looking up at the Sun, seeing it as a donut, knowing you've dunnit and all the powerful feelings that would bring and really get into that emotion. The emotion is the driving force in LOA but there's also something to be said about the visualization as that tends to be the target.

As far by one consciousness changing and then everyone else starting to have the same belief, yes that is what happens. But it's more "wow, I didn't realize so many people agreed with me on this topic!" You're creating the world, and the people, do agree with you.

If they all agreed with you, all at once, it would scare the crap out of you because that is just too much of a change in your reality. That fear of reality changing all at once is the exact reason we create a reality where change is slow, or that it's conditional, or that you must sell a product or service. We have to slow it down in order for our conscious minds to handle the experience.

Ok this is interesting because that means that your egoic experience is infact the center of the universe.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Lionman

Ok this is interesting because that means that your egoic experience is infact the center of the universe.

That's solipsism. Ego is NOT "you". Ego is one aspect of you. It is not what creates. YOU (big you, eternal source you) creates at a level that is beyond conscious thought. Ego is all conscious thought. Ego is surface, "real you" is at the deeper level. Egoic thoughts do not create in and of themselves.

And you can see this. You have people saying "ok, I want to manifest this, I want to manifest that" but it doesn't happen. If ego created, then they should be manifesting what they want. But ego has nothing to do with creation, it's the feeling underneath, the essence underneath. Whatever THAT is doing, is what manifests. If you are feeling peace and abundance, you will create that. If you are feeling the opposite, you will create that. The details, the little manifestations that arise, are simply the final product of that vibration/feeling.

Your ego is really just like the running commentary on the feelings that are being felt, the experiences that are being had.

You have to remember in SR the body is not real. The brain is not real. We aren't real. There is no separation. To have an ego that creates implies that you are separate from everyone else and somehow you are infringing on their individuality. But there isn't any individuality. It's one consciousness, and it can't violate itself. But it can APPEAR to. That's where the whole world of form comes in, consciousness creating the illusion that there's all these people and things and stuff happening, when it's really just daydreaming a story.

[cylon]

I should add that the reason I think ego is surface stuff is because when you meditate, you "lose" it. It just vanishes. When it quiets down, you are experiencing "real you".

If your ego created, then it vanishing would mean the end of the world. But, you are still there, aware of your surroundings, but without ego.

[Lionman]

Ok I see where you're coming from and don't want to derail things too much.

So what you're looking for is the feeling of feeling abundant without having to do anything.

This may manifest at first for instance being on social support, or you might win some money or something... and then eventually you might see some development in society where more people are able to live like this, and then eventually everyone's not having to do anything and has everything they want?

Is that what we're getting at with the no-action thing?

[cylon]

In the long term yeah I think that's where it's going. But it's not going to be like overnight, everyone is rich. That is just disturbing because the change is too fast.

I do think the feeling is what you're looking for and also for me, the reminding myself that there is no separation really breaks barriers (literally).

No separation means, you can have what you want because you are giving to yourself. There's a great phrase used in A Course In Miracles that says "there is no difference between being, and having". I think that puts it best.

So when you are giving TO yourself, there are no gatekeepers deciding if you can have this or that, or what the process is supposed to be. It's really just down to your acceptance that the world is yours, you can have it all. If that feels good to you, get ready because your reality is going to change really fast. Fast enough that it might freak you out a little.

If you don't feel right about that, it's just life as you expect it to be, random, hit and miss, etc.

[kenny r]

Originally Posted by Lionman

But then again some people win the lottery. But we can't all win the lottery surely... then what kind of society would we live in? *barring the fact that not everyone can win the lottery obviously*

Well not all at the same time, or we'd be a society of 13¢ lottery winners after the split! "Woo. Yay. I won the lottery."

I think it is not required to "pay" a price for what is received, however, for myself and probably many people the desire as well as the opportunity arises to gladly and effortlessly "give back". Even though giving is still "to yourself".

[cylon]

Another thought: it's not that people would choose to "stop" doing things for money. Making money can be enjoyable with a job or business, selling your creative work, whatever. Sitting around doing nothing might be boring.

But that's just ONE WAY to receive abundance, out of an infinite amount of ways we can't imagine. If that route feels best, then that's the route to take. I just wanted to make the distinction between that and TAGR's insistence that abundance can ONLY come from a job or business.

It is fun to think of all the different ways things can work out for us, but our imaginations are limited. Things always seem to manifest in a way that surprises and pleases me, stuff I wouldn't have expected. Even if I was expecting a certain thing to happen, the way in which it happens, is usually beyond my conscious ability to guess at the "how".

[Lionman]

Originally Posted by cylon

So when you are giving TO yourself, there are no gatekeepers deciding if you can have this or that, or what the process is supposed to be. It's really just down to your acceptance that the world is yours, you can have it all. If that feels good to you, get ready because your reality is going to change really fast. Fast enough that it might freak you out a little.

Yeah, you see I have a solipsist type issue sometimes. Not really solipsist, but ego-centric is probably the best way of describing. Don't really like talking about it, but I've had synchronicities of radio DJ's who are speaking to millions of people at the same time, suddenly speaking about my intention which is related to something I want for myself (as in my Lionman self), literally seconds after I decided I want it.

Stuff like that which is very Lionman centric involving the co-operation of many people, resources and energy just to give me a wink or two.

Which got me thinking if I could literally turn my reality into the way I want it and then everyone would just co-operate to my whims.

This doesn't sit right with me though and I'm sure it doesn't with you either?

[cylon]

Originally Posted by kenny r

I think it is not required to "pay" a price for what is received, however, for myself and probably many people the desire as well as the opportunity arises to gladly and effortlessly "give back". Even though giving is still "to yourself".

I think it's a chicken/egg argument. It does feel great to give. When you give (from a place of true giving, not neediness) you are in tune with the universe because you have lowered lots of resistance. Not surprisingly, things go your way.

But what came first, the giving or the receiving? If it's all one I don't think you could even answer that question.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Lionman

Yeah, you see I have a solipsist type issue sometimes. Not really solipsist, but ego-centric is probably the best way of describing. Don't really like talking about it, but I've had synchronicities of radio DJ's who are speaking to millions of people at the same time, suddenly speaking about my intention which is related to something I want for myself (as in my Lionman self), literally seconds after I decided I want it.

Oh yeah. Happens ALL THE TIME. When it started happening to me, I didn't know what to make of it. At first it's kind of like feeling there are ghosts haunting you or something, it's just weird and a little disturbing. But I've learned to trust it, and now, when that stuff happens it almost always makes me feel good, and it gives me reassurance. Even if what I'm hearing is not necessarily "positive" I feel the reassurance because it reminds me, everything is a reflection of me, good or bad, and I can choose to focus on the good and invariably, the manifestations will be on the "good" side. So it's pretty much neutral, choose good, you get good, choose bad, you get bad. 100% up to you.

Originally Posted by Lionman

Stuff like that which is very Lionman centric involving the co-operation of many people, resources and energy just to give me a wink or two.

Which got me thinking if I could literally turn my reality into the way I want it and then everyone would just co-operate to my whims.

This doesn't sit right with me though and I'm sure it doesn't with you either?

There is a shift that happens when you go from thinking solipsism to thinking SR, and I can't really describe it but I think soon you will see this in a completely different way than you do now.

When you say that it's very "ego centric" and you think maybe your needs or desires might be coming at the expense of others, in that moment you are declaring that there is separation. But there isn't separation, there is no you over here and billions of people over there. It's like one, big, fat person that spans all the continents. There is only ONE of us, but we look at different parts of ourselves and say "that's someone else."

If you are happy, if you find peace, the relationship you have with YOURSELF (the world) is going to be pretty cool. People will get along, people will love each other, it just feels wonderful. Like a radio DJ saying something you're thinking about. That's you talking to yourself and saying "this is important to me" and the other part of yourself (the DJ) saying "yes it is, it is important to me. I agree." And that feels GOOD.

But if you are feeling bad, and feeling separation, then you will not have those experiences. Because you have chosen to create a world where those things can't happen. Even though it's still you, all your creation, you just won't be aware of it. And a part of you knows "this isn't right, there should be wholeness. Feeling separate is wrong because it's lonely and scary." It's like the higher part of you saying "right, let's change this. Let's feel whole again." Poof! Self-help message board, book about LOA, etc. It's like you're always giving yourself help along the way. Little nudges back to joy. Then... crazy ass synchros are your reward.

[Lionman]

Yeah big synchros have me feeling good too and always get me thinking about how things work and my place in the world!

I do keep flicking between ego-centrisism and SR where everyone is equal/me. I'm feeling a profound realization is on the horizon sometime in the near future. Until then I'm going to carry on and manifest what I want!

Cheers for the thought provoking discussion, I've thoroughly enjoyed
I'm off to bed now, and hoping the Sun doesn't come up tomorrow morning as a giant donut!

[kenny r]

Originally Posted by Lionman

hoping the Sun doesn't come up tomorrow morning as a giant donut!

If it does the big, fat person that spans all the continents will eat it for breakfast. How do you think he got so big in the first place? Not by eating a cantaloupe!

[Lionman]

Originally Posted by kenny r

If it does the big, fat person that spans all the continents will eat it for breakfast. How do you think he got so big in the first place? Not by eating a cantaloupe!

, God was Homer Simpson all along!

[MC Kejml]

This is one of the most insightful threads I've read on LOA, mainly for the discussion between cylon and Lionhead. At first glance all over the forums, I thought cylon's replies were a bit skeptic and/or nihilistic, but now he is actually talking about a very interesting and deep topic.

It's about the LOA stuff I was thinking about (radio DJ "coincidence"). A week ago, I had a bad argument with my mother where I felt really miserable and suddenly, I discovered that my favourite movie critic mocked my favourite movie. I mean, that's totally it!

Or, I discover a rapper rapping about enterpreneurship questions I've been thinking about (yes that can happen). Can't wait to read some more.