Surrender vs. Specific

[cylon]

Which feels more right for you?

I believe there is a part of us that fully knows what we want without our having to say so. It probably knows even BETTER what we want, than our conscious minds would, because it's not having to compete with egoic desires that on the surface sound like they'd be nice, but underneath might be based on fear or pain.

If this part of you already knows what you want, I think it would make sense to just trust that it will provide. If you have complete faith that you will get what you need in the end, and that it will be even better than your wildest dreams, then there is no need to ask.

The other approach is to be minutely specific. Don't ever stray from the conscious thought of what you want, paint the picture vividly in your mind until it is real to you, then expect to get it.

But this leaves out the possibility that something even better is on the way to you, and by being so specific you are keeping away that thing that is beyond what you can imagine right now. If you are only looking for what you are imagining, how will you know if something better has come?

But, to go to my original point, if that part of you knew what you wanted even without asking, and was going to give it to you anyway, maybe being specific doesn't really do any damage because that wiser part of you is already aware of your lack of imagination. Is that possible?

These are two very different approaches to manifestation, I know the question may have been brought up before but I wanted to frame it in this way.

[Acting Like Godot]

In my experience, there are certain attributes - such as wisdom, joy and peace - which you cannot manifest for, in the way that you can manifest for a house or a car or a new job.

For WJP, all you need to do, and all you can do, is meditate straight. By meditating "straight", I mean no funny business like visualising blue feathers or hair growing on your head or holding a million-dollar cheque in your hands etc.

Just solid, straight meditation - no asking for anything, merely observing your own thoughts, observing your own breath, entering your deeper mind etc.

Then the WJP arises naturally, and permeates your life (if you've done a deep session) for about 36-48 hours (in my own experience).

After that, you need to meditate again.

[cylon]

I like that, I had gotten away from meditation and moved to visualization. But I noticed that by just meditation, stuff manifested anyway, without me having to intend at all.

I think there is a part of me that fears the meditation part. It's afraid that if I become happy and peaceful, I will lose that drive and determination. That I will be content with "whatever". Right now those two things seem opposite to me, because drive and determination seem like confirming there are obstacles that need to be overcome. And seeing those obstacles make me think I can't have what I want, which takes away the peace. So I can tell I have conflicting beliefs.

I'm going to return to my practice of meditating without visualization first thing in the morning, before I've had a chance to have actual conflicting thoughts.

[Acting Like Godot]

For me, the meditation is very important and actually, over a period of time, I keep forgetting that, only to remember it later, and then return to it again (I mean, the practice of regular meditation).

With IM/LOA, I get great results, meaning that I get the results that make a lot of people say "Wow!" .... but I also realise that those results in themselves don't really make me happy or satisfied, if I am not in the correct frame of mind.

It's meditation that puts me in the correct frame of mind. Then I feel happy and pleased with all the many good things in my life. And problems and challenges look quite manageable.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

It's meditation that puts me in the correct frame of mind. Then I feel happy and pleased with all the many good things in my life. And problems and challenges look quite manageable.

Excellent, yeah it's just about the time that I know I need a change that I think "why am I not meditating?" Even you had to remind me, I wouldn't have thought of it.

[themaster]

Both approaches are fine cylon.. there's nothing wrong with saying "what you want"

Sometimes I think my focus on the holodeck is super focused!

Sometimes not..

As you know I don't meditate except for my teachers "guided meditations" though I was thinking of doing it.. however I can't remember why

This life is meant to be contrast as you know.. without opposing opinion's or creator gods it might not be much fun.. (but I think that's a illusion/lack based vision) our sci-fi writers always theorize in disaster scenario's where's there few humans left.. you'd be moody and pissed off.. and fire a machine gun randomly at windows..

[cylon]

Originally Posted by themaster

there's nothing wrong with saying "what you want"

Yeah I agree with that. I've just realized that by me saying what I want, it's a form of acknowledgment that what I want is separate from me. And I would think, if you think it's separate, you won't feel it's one with you. Then it won't happen. For some reason that seems off.

[shasah]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

For me, the meditation is very important and actually, over a period of time, I keep forgetting that, only to remember it later, and then return to it again (I mean, the practice of regular meditation).

With IM/LOA, I get great results, meaning that I get the results that make a lot of people say "Wow!" .... but I also realise that those results in themselves don't really make me happy or satisfied, if I am not in the correct frame of mind.

It's meditation that puts me in the correct frame of mind. Then I feel happy and pleased with all the many good things in my life. And problems and challenges look quite manageable.

Thank you, I needed this. Glad to know I'm not the only one that forgets and returns. Regular meditation helps me get into that zone quickly and easily whereas when I skip around because of time constraints, I find it difficult to get deep enough to bring me peace. Today was a day that I needed to be reminded.

[Wax Frog]

Originally Posted by cylon

I'm going to return to my practice of meditating without visualization first thing in the morning, before I've had a chance to have actual conflicting thoughts.

Thanks for the reminder, HS (only half-kidding)!

[gigij]

I think that surrender is probably the best way.

However that isn't what I do. Because I still feel the need to be a little bit in control, and can't totally let go and trust my 'higher self', even though deep down I know I should.

That is probably the next step for me - what I'm working towards.

[MidasGirl]

I think it's good to do both. But for me I find it very important to have at least 15 minutes of pure meditation, without any expectations or an "agenda" other than to calm my thoughts.

[SunnyDays]

Originally Posted by cylon

Which feels more right for you?

Being specific with the end result feels right to me

[Angela]

I start out being very specific, creating an image in great, vivid detail, bright, colorful, beautifuly toned sounds, smells, even tastes -- and especially big, intense, vivid specific feelings. The more specific and vivid, the more feeling I have, and after all, that's my heart's desire -- the feeling. When I'm really feeling what I want to feel, I plant that image -- or something better -- in my future timeline, and then I let go of it.

The specific image of the event or object or whatever is just a metaphor or signpost for the feeling, so it's not important that it "come true" exactly as in the image. What I'm creating is the heart's desire, and although it often shows up the way I imagine it, even more often, it shows up even better -- and sometimes completely different -- than I have access to imagining it. And I love delightful surprises.

[MissEmpress]

My approach to most of my desires is to add the disclaimer that ABOVE ALL ELSE I want what is for my highest good and the highest good for those who may be affected by it.

With that "out there" then I get specific about what I want.


I am a maximizer by nature, which in regular life can sometimes be annoying because I spend a lot of time when making decisions, weighing the costs, benefits etc trying to make the BEST choice. Even choosing food at a restaurant can take a lot longer than it should With manifesting I can imagine myself going down that road of maximizing to a fault, so I don't. I imagine a couple specific details, but moreso the feelings it will bring, and shoot for that and trust I will get that.


I believe that I can be happy with a combination of things, so I leave myself open for that and focus on the overall feelings. For example, I'd like a Lexus IS350 that is no earlier than 2007 for a reasonable price to my income. I'd like gray or black....but if the universe brought me a white one, or a blue one, I would be just as happy. So some desires, I feel like I don't have to be specific to the tee as it is more of a "this would be a nice extra" but not a "must have" and I would be just as happy with any of the above color selections. This also goes for a lot of other things, there is a specific job I want for example, it matches my needs and wants however, I am sure there are other jobs that may match it just as well or even better! So while I asked for this job, I am also open to another one that will provide the same feelings/benefits that I want from this specific one. That's how I go about it....it's about the essence of the thing and not just the thing itself and more than one specific thing may come with the same essence you're looking for.

[TiffyLove]

At least for me specific feels limiting and surrender feels expansion.

I think it will vary for everyone.

I like to connect with the feeling that I desire and surrender to experiencing it in any way that is brought to me.

In my opinion specific works better for the mind. Because it can be focused on the direction it is headed and take action steps toward it. I guess is just depends on the intention and desire of each person.

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

I surrender.

I have used the laws of attraction for personal material gain in the past; each time I gained what I wanted I also lost something valuable as well. I have the inclination to believe that this was a subconscious intention that was fulfilled because even as I gained things, I had this deeper preconscious notion that no thing would better suit my experiments with truth.

Now I ask for union, only. The derivative of the derivative of the derivative...

Why would you want any thing else? To what end?

[shasah]

I strive for balance. I direct toward a specific area and then let the intention manifest as it will. I do get some surprises that way but the surprises are always something that are manageable.

[nicbrahms]

I find a good surrender is like a really good scrub in the shower, if done properly you don't have to do it again for ages.

I think the universe only requires you to relinquish control every now and again, then you find this sort of middle ground between control and surrender which works well.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by nicbrahms

i find a good surrender is like a really good scrub in the shower, if done properly you don't have to do it again for ages.

[jak3b]

[QUOTE=nicbrahms;684781]I find a good surrender is like a really good scrub in the shower, if done properly you don't have to do it again for ages.

Very True Nic.I had a great one back in '97.Im planning my next one for 12-12-12.I want to smell nice for the Mayans.

[Showtime]

Originally Posted by cylon

Surrender vs. Specific

Which feels more right for you?

Both work well. Even in The Secret (of which I'm not a huge fan,) Jack Canfield described his experience. In the AM and PM put the intention out there, then stay in a vibration of gratitude the rest of the day.

Gratitude (actually I find the word "Appreciation" a lot more accurate,) is a vibration matching who you really are. Feel the vibrational difference between those 2 words.

At the end of the day the LoA is responding to vibration and mood, so if visualizing what you want all day makes you feel best, go for it. If surrender or Enlightenment makes you feel best, go for it.

But to me, the former is simply too much work.

[JeffistheAnswer]

Originally Posted by nicbrahms

I find a good surrender is like a really good scrub in the shower, if done properly you don't have to do it again for ages.

I think the universe only requires you to relinquish control every now and again, then you find this sort of middle ground between control and surrender which works well.

Hmmm....a middle ground. But isn't this what ordinary people do everyday? They believe they control their careers and relationships, and they also surrender some of their fate to whatever god they believe in. And I'm pretty sure those kinds of people don't get the best results...

[Showtime]

Originally Posted by cylon

I think there is a part of me that fears the meditation part. It's afraid that if I become happy and peaceful, I will lose that drive and determination. That I will be content with "whatever".

That's exactly what I went through. I thought "Ok, if the universe sees that I'm happy with what I have, it won't bring me anything else" and I was wrong. So I left that void open just to keep my motivation.

When you're in the state of pure bliss and joy all the stuff you've wanted in your life starts bursting in. When you want something else, you focus your attention on it, feel the discomfort of not having it, and focus your attention back on the wholeness.

That stuff will just poof into your life

I don't want to link it, but Google this article: "Beyond Hypnosis: Engaging the Superconscious" and it will be the first result.

What they're talking about is aligning with the mind of God, which is Enlightenment.

I've found that you can still have an inner wholeness and an external identity as much as some teachers suggest completely shedding the ego.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Showtime

When you're in the state of pure bliss and joy all the stuff you've wanted in your life starts bursting in.

Oh yeah, absolutely. When pure bliss is active you're just on autopilot, nothing goes wrong. Everything makes sense and everything lines up perfectly. The only problem I have is trying to get back to that state when I'm not actually in that state. I find visualization works, it's just that in the moment when I want to visualize, my ego says "stop that, you need to work hard, not dream." But it gets easier to not listen to that voice.

Originally Posted by Showtime

I don't want to link it, but Google this article: "Beyond Hypnosis: Engaging the Superconscious" and it will be the first result.

What they're talking about is aligning with the mind of God, which is Enlightenment.

Thanks, I'll check that out.

[Showtime]

Yea, I hate loosing that state and that under current of peace.

But it's also nice to be in a state of discomfort then bring yourself back into the more enlightened state.

To me it's like when you're hungry. You wouldn't want to walk around all day full and satisfied, where's the fun in that?

The fun is being hungry and then eating and savoring the meal.

But anyway I find that stopping thought completely and returning focus to the present moment for about 10 seconds is enough to get the ball rolling.

[nicbrahms]

Originally Posted by JeffistheAnswer

Hmmm....a middle ground. But isn't this what ordinary people do everyday? They believe they control their careers and relationships, and they also surrender some of their fate to whatever god they believe in. And I'm pretty sure those kinds of people don't get the best results...

If by ordinary people you mean people who don't know about loa, surrender etc then you will find they are reacting to life not living it consciously cause they ain't awake.

Perhaps you can explain what 'ordinary people' are?

Also when you have fully surrendered and felt the difference there and the difference in normal unconscious life, it is noticeable, then this happy medium steps in when you are guided when and where to surrender, be active, consciously create etc.

Don't you just love a good surrender, have you ever noticed when you reached the end of your tether before Loa etc that you would just give up in a fit of anger, and then magically the thing happens. Great ain't it?

Lets have a surrender party!

[nicbrahms]

[QUOTE=jak3b;685077]

Originally Posted by nicbrahms

I find a good surrender is like a really good scrub in the shower, if done properly you don't have to do it again for ages.

Very True Nic.I had a great one back in '97.Im planning my next one for 12-12-12.I want to smell nice for the Mayans.

Whooaaa synchro or what I am planning one then too, if you scrub my back I'll scrub yours, ooooh errrrr and of course Angela is invited cause she's so damn hot and cylon cause that guy has a way with words, in fact all of you are.

Peace as always

[JeffistheAnswer]

Originally Posted by nicbrahms

If by ordinary people you mean people who don't know about loa, surrender etc then you will find they are reacting to life not living it consciously cause they ain't awake.

Perhaps you can explain what 'ordinary people' are?

Also when you have fully surrendered and felt the difference there and the difference in normal unconscious life, it is noticeable, then this happy medium steps in when you are guided when and where to surrender, be active, consciously create etc.

Don't you just love a good surrender, have you ever noticed when you reached the end of your tether before Loa etc that you would just give up in a fit of anger, and then magically the thing happens. Great ain't it?

Lets have a surrender party!

Yes by ordinary people I mean those who don't know LoA. Sorry if it sounds degrading, ordinary people . Perhaps your could give an example from your own life of when you manifested something using this middle ground? I just want to see what it looks like.

[jak3b]

[QUOTE=nicbrahms;685328]

Originally Posted by jak3b

Whooaaa synchro or what I am planning one then too, if you scrub my back I'll scrub yours, ooooh errrrr and of course Angela is invited cause she's so damn hot and cylon cause that guy has a way with words, in fact all of you are.

Peace as always

Weeeeeee!.
Awesome how this all works eh';-)

[sonde]

Originally Posted by cylon

If you have complete faith that you will get what you need in the end, and that it will be even better than your wildest dreams, then there is no need to ask.

The other approach is to be minutely specific. Don't ever stray from the conscious thought of what you want, paint the picture vividly in your mind until it is real to you, then expect to get it.

To me, both methods are essentially the same. They both attempt to give a remedy for a subtle separation that is only apparent.

The first subtly separates by asking for complete faith in the end, so much so that there is no need to ask. The second subtly separates by holding to what is wanted, expecting to get it.

Both views subtly reinforce the view that what we feel and see with the body is real. Is this what you want; are you really after bliss or a particular bodily state; such could only be a dream state couldn't it?

Why not just be, not as a body-mind, but as consciousness... and watch the arisings. You are not really defined by what arises are you... you only appear to be.