Could all medicine be the same then?

[rickrock]

If sugar pills are placebos and it's just a way to keep you in your comfort zone as you heal yourself, isn't it a possibility that all medicine does this? and its just a bunch of chemicals that make you feel like they are making you better as you do your healing-business?

[TheLifeQuaker]

Considering the standard testing for most pharmaceuticals is blinded studies against a placebo, I'd say no. To go into circulation they are supposed to be found significantly more effective to deal with the health concern than placebos...otherwise they are considered ineffective and (typically...) kept off the market.

[RomanHD]

Originally Posted by TheLifeQuaker

Considering the standard testing for most pharmaceuticals is blinded studies against a placebo, I'd say no. To go into circulation they are supposed to be found significantly more effective to deal with the health concern than placebos...otherwise they are considered ineffective and (typically...) kept off the market.

This. Drugs are tested against placebo and the differences are put into complicated statistical formulas to see if the effect of the drug is really there.

[Nea]

And most of the tests are so called double blind experiments which means that neither patient, neither person who gives them to patient doesn't know which is placebo and which is the real one.
But there is slight possibility: someone knows which drug is right and which isn't - and that is the main experimenter, who implements statistical testing and data analysis and have his/hers own expectations...
Generally, no, not all drugs are placebo, but theoretically - it is possible that they work trough someones expectations to work (imagine that: with placebo one or two persons think it will work, with non placebo 3, 4 or more... ).

[Federer]

Just sharing my independent thought for medicines.

All medicines can never be same, but yes, the attitude to heal anyone can be same. Any illness has solution and it's curable. This>>>

[Showtime]

No, I don't believe that all drugs are placebos.

But as far as double blind studies, I think it's possible that the Law of Attraction has some effect on them.

I remember abraham-Hicks speaking on the subject and they esentially said: "That's why Statistics are so funny, the Law of Attraction is going to bias any results they're getting, and scientests who hold an intent are going to find the results they're looking for."

LoA aside, I think that many medications (Anti-depressants, valium,) are just bandaids anyway. They block certain chemicals from entering the body, when in reality the chemicals aren't the source of the problem. For example the depression causes the chemicals; the chemicals don't cause the depression.

I think it's like punching out the "Check Engine" light on your dashboard, so essentially I would say that Placebos are better since they don't cause side effects.

[cylon]

This question is in the intention manifestation section, so you're going to get different answers than if you posted it in the health and fitness section.

I think all medicine COULD be the same, because I don't believe in the body. I only believe in the mind. Not the brain, the mind that contains the brain and body and everything else.

If the body is formed from the mind then any change in the mind changes the body. Placebos are evidence (IMO) that the mind really does form the body. Medicine doesn't really "Work" because there is no body to work on. The body isn't real, which means the medicine isn't real either. All that is real is the belief that xyz is occurring in the body.

The mind has created a belief that it is in a body and that body is real, and can be threatened, so it creates conditions that need medicine. It creates the disease and the cure. It believes in the medicine it creates, so naturally, the medicine "works". But the medicine in itself, doesn't exist to begin with. Just like the body.

Many think this is how Jesus performed his miracles. All he did was get people to believe that He was healing them, and their own mind took over and did the rest. All he did was make them aware of their own power, but using kind of a "placebo", leading them to believe it was really Him doing it, and not them.

So in my opinion, all medicine is the same. It's all fake, just like the body. But, if you believe it's real, you should take it. If you didn't take it and believed it was real, you would be in trouble. If you didn't believe it was real, you probably wouldn't be sick.

[Showtime]

The way I see it: is if medicines such as prozac weren't real, that would mean that marijuana getting you high is a placebo effect as well.

I highly doubt Marijuana is a placebo effect.

[cylon]

It's all about beliefs. It's not that the medicine isn't real, it's that nothing is real. And that doesn't mean the marijuana is there but its effect isn't real, it's that the marijuana isn't there. It's in your Mind... so it's going to behave based on the dictates of what your mind expects. In a dream you usually walk on the ground and speak like a human, but the dream isn't real. Still it conforms to your expectations somewhat about "how life works". Yet you're in bed, sound asleep, not walking, not talking.

But I'm sure you've heard of people getting drunk thinking they were drinking alcohol then they find out it was non-alcoholic. Adults like to play this trick on teenagers.

[rickrock]

Originally Posted by cylon

It's all about beliefs. It's not that the medicine isn't real, it's that nothing is real. And that doesn't mean the marijuana is there but its effect isn't real, it's that the marijuana isn't there. It's in your Mind... so it's going to behave based on the dictates of what your mind expects. In a dream you usually walk on the ground and speak like a human, but the dream isn't real. Still it conforms to your expectations somewhat about "how life works". Yet you're in bed, sound asleep, not walking, not talking.

But I'm sure you've heard of people getting drunk thinking they were drinking alcohol then they find out it was non-alcoholic. Adults like to play this trick on teenagers.

I was going to post that part but wasn't sure if the friend who experienced that was just... strange. I dont believe in the body and that probably would have been a good thing to post in the OP

[Dave Plaza]

Originally Posted by cylon

It's all about beliefs. It's not that the medicine isn't real, it's that nothing is real.

Such a romantic opinion, I wish I could agree, I use to try to agree.

Originally Posted by cylon

And that doesn't mean the marijuana is there but its effect isn't real, it's that the marijuana isn't there. It's in your Mind... so it's going to behave based on the dictates of what your mind expects.

Hmmm, there was a time when i use to take a lot of ecstacy... Sometimes i would stupidly buy this blind, but i would always expect to come up on it, it never happened that way, by your argument it should.

Originally Posted by cylon

In a dream you usually walk on the ground and speak like a human.

Nope, it never happens like that.

Originally Posted by cylon

But I'm sure you've heard of people getting drunk thinking they were drinking alcohol then they find out it was non-alcoholic. Adults like to play this trick on teenagers.

I remember pretending to be drunk as a teenager, but i always remembered I was pretending... I was a teenager, irresponsible, not stupid.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Dave Plaza

Such a romantic opinion, I wish I could agree, I use to try to agree.

Not really romantic, I think it's neutral. Romantic is kind of a wistful word someone who is jaded would use.

Originally Posted by Dave Plaza

Hmmm, there was a time when i use to take a lot of ecstacy... Sometimes i would stupidly buy this blind, but i would always expect to come up on it, it never happened that way, by your argument it should.

You mean you never got high or you mean that you never come down hard on ecstasy? I've never done ecstasy but I hear coming down really sucks. Anything in your sphere of influence is your belief. Even if it's a contrary one. This is because there is no separation. If you've heard something is supposed to be a certain way, you will have those expectations. You can tell something is your belief if it's in your awareness, even if it's consciously the opposite of what you think you believe.

When I say belief I don't really mean intellectual, ego belief. More of the unspoken belief you never question, the way you just generally feel. Just saying "oh I'll experiment with thinking this" might not work that great because it's intellectual, egoic. But the ego is created, not the creator.

Originally Posted by Dave Plaza

Nope, it never happens like that.

So in your dreams you never walk and talk. That's cool.

Originally Posted by Dave Plaza

I remember pretending to be drunk as a teenager, but i always remembered I was pretending... I was a teenager, irresponsible, not stupid.

I'm talking about when an adult buys a younger person a drink and says it's alcoholic, so the kid believes it's real. Not a kid pretending to be drunk when they know consciously they haven't had alcohol.

[Showtime]

Originally Posted by cylon

It's all about beliefs. It's not that the medicine isn't real, it's that nothing is real. And that doesn't mean the marijuana is there but its effect isn't real, it's that the marijuana isn't there. It's in your Mind... so it's going to behave based on the dictates of what your mind expects. In a dream you usually walk on the ground and speak like a human, but the dream isn't real. Still it conforms to your expectations somewhat about "how life works". Yet you're in bed, sound asleep, not walking, not talking.

But I'm sure you've heard of people getting drunk thinking they were drinking alcohol then they find out it was non-alcoholic. Adults like to play this trick on teenagers.

While I agree with beliefs creating our reality, there are objective facts.

If I mix baking soda with vinegar, no matter how much I believe that there will be no reaction... there's gonna be a reaction. If I heat up water to a certain temperature it's going to boil. If I smoke marijuana, I'm gonna get high. It's not my beliefs that are causing that, it's chemical reactions and scientific laws.

What if a girl was given a date rape drug? That's not a placebo, and she didn't even know it was given to her. It wasn't her mind expecting that to happen. So it has to be the chemical reaction.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Showtime

It's not my beliefs that are causing that, it's chemical reactions and scientific laws.

If you believe that, then yes. I'm not trying to make you believe what I believe, I'm just discussing the topic. You're free to believe whatever you want.

I'm just saying, if your mind (not your brain) is really creating your reality then that must mean it creates all the scientific laws that go with it.

Otherwise it's like "oh yeah, I create my reality and everything, but only the parts that aren't controlled by scientific laws and other people."

I think it's all or nothing.

From my perspective, you are saying... here is this person, he believes this. Here is that person, they believe that. I'm saying, there is no this or that person. There is you, and in your mind, you create these people. They don't exist. But you don't either.

Most people do not want to be God, but I'm not sure there's a choice. Either way realizing it is scary because it makes you ask all these super important questions. Or questions that seem to be super important.

I would say your beliefs are reflected to you by what you see in your reality. If you want to really know what your beliefs are, just look around.

[Showtime]

So, could you make a video of yourself on YouTube mixing Baking Soda and Vinegar and not have it react and post it here?

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Showtime

So, could you make a video of yourself on YouTube mixing Baking Soda and Vinegar and not have it react and post it here?

Probably not. The fact that we're even having this conversation is evidence that there is a part of me that doesn't fully believe that is possible.

Otherwise I wouldn't be aware of what we're talking about, this conversation wouldn't be happening.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Nea

Generally, no, not all drugs are placebo

The more accurate way to put this is -

all drugs are placebos, but to get approved, they need to demonstrate a curative effect, over and above the placebo effect of a sugar pill.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Showtime

I remember abraham-Hicks speaking on the subject and they esentially said: "That's why Statistics are so funny, the Law of Attraction is going to bias any results they're getting, and scientests who hold an intent are going to find the results they're looking for."

In science, this is known as the observer effect. The effect of observing a physical system changes the physical system itself, such that it behaves in a way that it would not have behaved, if it had not been observed in such a manner.

For example, you put a thermometer into a flask of hot water, to measure the temperature of the water. The glass of the thermometer itself gets heated up, absorbing some heat from the water, such that the temperature measured is actually a little lower than what it would otherwise have been.

In electronics, you may wish to measure the current or voltage of a circuit. So you connect an ammeter or a voltmeter. However, the very presence of the ammeter or voltmeter has an effect on the current/voltage, because these devices themselves are an additional load to the circuit.

In psychology, you may wish to observe a group of people and how they behave under certain circumstances. However, the very fact that they know that you are observing them has an influence on how they actually behave.

Now we start to get a little New Agey, but the logical follow-through is that the way we choose to observe any of our experiences and circumstances has the effect of changing those experiences and circumstances.

If for example in a relationship you observe the best in your partner, he or she may well respond by exhibiting more and more of what you value in him/her.

If you are a teacher and you constantly observe the best in your students, the effect may well be that they get better and better, more than they would have otherwise managed to do (this is known in pedagogy as the Rosenthal effect).

[Silenced140]

There are all kinds of stress-related illnesses out there. Those can be cured easily by placebo. So can cancer and those kinds of diseases.


Sometimes though the body lacks a certain chemical that is needed to sustain proper health. Take water for example, it's the basic fundamental element for life.

A wise man once said.. (And this is true by the way) ... Nature provides all things man needs to cure himself.

A true statement.

[Dave Plaza]

Originally Posted by cylon

Not really romantic, I think it's neutral. Romantic is kind of a wistful word someone who is jaded would use.



You mean you never got high or you mean that you never come down hard on ecstasy? I've never done ecstasy but I hear coming down really sucks. Anything in your sphere of influence is your belief. Even if it's a contrary one. This is because there is no separation. If you've heard something is supposed to be a certain way, you will have those expectations. You can tell something is your belief if it's in your awareness, even if it's consciously the opposite of what you think you believe.

When I say belief I don't really mean intellectual, ego belief. More of the unspoken belief you never question, the way you just generally feel. Just saying "oh I'll experiment with thinking this" might not work that great because it's intellectual, egoic. But the ego is created, not the creator.




So in your dreams you never walk and talk. That's cool.




I'm talking about when an adult buys a younger person a drink and says it's alcoholic, so the kid believes it's real. Not a kid pretending to be drunk when they know consciously they haven't had alcohol.

Man... sometimes I'm such a noob

I'm not sure why I'm attempting to argue these points...

You're the greatest.

[Nea]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

The more accurate way to put this is -

all drugs are placebos, but to get approved, they need to demonstrate a curative effect, over and above the placebo effect of a sugar pill.

Agree, you put it better then I did.